Djing

[Modernsoulsucks]

Im hoping that Sooty replies to him.

ROD

[Guest Dave Ward]

I believe a Northern Soul DJ should have a totally deadpan voice, Thank the last DJ, introduce him/herself and start the set with the words "Kicking off with, then Artist/Title/Label " There should then be a couple of seconds delay before the track kicks in. After the first record, each subsequent record should be introduced with the words " Sounds of....Artist/Title/Label ". Requests must be politely accepted, but never played. At the end of the set, the DJ must thank the crowd for being the best ever, before introducing the next DJ, using a slightly sympathetic tone of voice....simples.

[Labeat]

Anybody any good at Grammar?.... whats musical empathy, musical onanism, self mythologising, innovations and contextual narrative???

I did ok in woodwork, metalwork and arithmetic at school

[Quinvy]

I'd be happy if the Dj actually knew how to use a turntable and didn't keep turning the gains up because they think it's the volume control. 

 

I know a load of so called big name Dj's and so called promoters who don't understand the first thing about PA.

[Markw]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yxnhoLQ_hk

 

From 1986 DJ Cheese performing his Disco Mix Club (DMC) Championship routine. This is clearly evidence of how the technical aspects of DJing had changed, and I think helps to put some of the discussions regarding DJing here in to some perspective.

 

Rob Alias

Christ! That Youtube link goes on for 7 and a half MINUTES!! I lost the will to live (not to mention most of my fillings) after less than 4...........  Barely had time to see him in his handcuffs...................what was all that about?

Edited April 22, 2014 by markw

[Guest Dave Ward]

Anybody any good at Grammar?.... whats musical empathy, musical onanism, self mythologising, innovations and contextual narrative???

I did ok in woodwork, metalwork and arithmetic at school

I'm good at grammar, at 14 years old I learned about onanism, a hobby which I pursue to this day.

[Mellorful]

I believe a Northern Soul DJ should have a totally deadpan voice, Thank the last DJ, introduce him/herself and start the set with the words "Kicking off with, then Artist/Title/Label " There should then be a couple of seconds delay before the track kicks in. After the first record, each subsequent record should be introduced with the words " Sounds of....Artist/Title/Label ". Requests must be politely accepted, but never played. At the end of the set, the DJ must thank the crowd for being the best ever, before introducing the next DJ, using a slightly sympathetic tone of voice....simples.

This is a matter of personal preference and I am not saying you are wrong.

I prefer the DJ to introduce the next DJ or thank the previous DJ and thereafter keep his or her mouth shut and spin the vinyl so I can spend time dancing rather than listen to someone rabbit about the next great tune. If I don't know a tune and I am interested I use Shazam on the mobile or go and ask the DJ what the tune was.

I regard the DJ as an entertainer, because the punters pay the door tax then where club policy requires it I feel it is incumbent on the DJ to play requests and adjust his set accordingly; assuming the DJ has the talent and vinyl they can still deliver great sets. I appreciate requests can be inconvenient or frustrating at times but the punters pay the wages. 

I don't think there is a right or wrong way with the microphone, just different people's preference and you can't satisfy em all.

KTF

[Guest Dave Ward]

 

This is a matter of personal preference and I am not saying you are wrong.

I prefer the DJ to introduce the next DJ or thank the previous DJ and thereafter keep his or her mouth shut and spin the vinyl so I can spend time dancing rather than listen to someone rabbit about the next great tune. If I don't know a tune and I am interested I use Shazam on the mobile or go and ask the DJ what the tune was.

 

 

DJ announces "Next, the sound of The Soulful Strings, Burning Spear, on the Cadet label" . Takes 4 seconds, why the heck do I need to use Shazam ? or climb onto the stage and ask ? That's a bigger waste of dancing time !

[Geeselad]

funk and soul sets can and are mixed together very well off the scene, take someone like scruff, his southport mix cd from a few year back retained the credibilty and essence of every cut, yet they were enhanced by the records blended either side of them. Kenny dope, DJ spinna and a host of others have done it really well.  would I trust anyone to do it well on the northern scene? your having a warlocks staff! 

Edited April 23, 2014 by geeselad

[Labeat]

I believe a Northern Soul DJ should have a totally deadpan voice, Thank the last DJ, introduce him/herself and start the set with the words "Kicking off with, then Artist/Title/Label " There should then be a couple of seconds delay before the track kicks in. After the first record, each subsequent record should be introduced with the words " Sounds of....Artist/Title/Label ". Requests must be politely accepted, but never played. At the end of the set, the DJ must thank the crowd for being the best ever, before introducing the next DJ, using a slightly sympathetic tone of voice....simples.

 

Hi Dave. Thats all well and good if you've got a sixty minute slot, more clubs are now giving DJ's 2 X 30 minutes so if you did all that in a 30 minute spot

you'd only cram 9 tunes in instead of a dozen..... just let em flow, iv'e never heard any complaints!

[pow wow mik]

I know John, I'm still trying to work out your position regarding these issues?!

Rob Alias

I'm still trying to work out what point you're making, even after carefully reading your post twice. No offence meant, but any chance of you boiling it down to a sentence or two of plain English?

I'm just nipping out to build a wall for 8 hours but I'll get back to you

Edited April 23, 2014 by pow wow mik

[Liamgp]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yxnhoLQ_hk

 

From 1986 DJ Cheese performing his Disco Mix Club (DMC) Championship routine. This is clearly evidence of how the technical aspects of DJing had changed, and I think helps to put some of the discussions regarding DJing here in to some perspective.

 

Rob Alias

 

The 80s were 30-odd years ago and there are masses trying to emulate this sort of thing now and kid themselves it's still the 'in thing'.

 

At least Northern knows it's living in the past!

[KevH]

So there really is a DJ School.?

[Labeat]

I'd be happy if the Dj actually knew how to use a turntable and didn't keep turning the gains up because they think it's the volume control. 

 

I know a load of so called big name Dj's and so called promoters who don't understand the first thing about PA.

 

You were the model professional Phil.... we miss your talent

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Over the last year or so I have been to a number of events and have some observations form a dancers perspective.

 

Without the DJ and their expertise we are doomed, as I always say, to Lieutenant Pigeon and 'Mouldy Old Dough'! They take the risk with their collection and often play tracks that are out the vector, which for me is good, as it opens up my mind to new and exciting material never heard before. However, from a dance perspective and I say that because many events boast 'great dance floor' etc, I find that at certain times the dance momentum interrupted by playing a completely opposite bpm or style that is disruptive to the natural rhythm, flow and timing needed to show off on the dance floor. Going from what I believe is a ballad of say 95bpm to a faster tempo 130bpm and back again. Then a spurious Motown cut is played and then another half speed 'other' unknown which sends me to the bar for my J2O sugar kick.

 

If I hear 'If this is love', why not follow it with a couple more Detroit or that 'What kind of lady' with a couple of the same era Philly cuts? Also the groove is important to the dancer. If a track has the right groove, but is unknown I can tolerate and maybe get to like it before I exit stage left. For example that 'Dearly beloved'/Jack Montgomery song...great Detroit 'shuffle' groove so typical of what came out of the city at that time. That track along with countless other Detroit releases are like 2 fingers in a glove because they often were recorded in the same studio and feature some of the same musicians and 'see below'. 

 

Another major issue I have personally is with high frequencies being, hi hat, tambourine metallic percussion etc. If the producer wished it to be silenced or removed he would not have put it on in the first place, so why equalise it off today? Some presentations are 'flat', no bass and certainly no high frequencies. No event advertises 'come and dance to some great soul with at least 30% of the high frequencies and kick drum equalised off ' do they, so why do it! Maybe events should advertise 'with a 50% chance of hearing the directors intent in the first place with hiss, if needs be'. Tongue in cheek of course but.....bearing in mind:

 

1) Tape stock

2) the studio

3) the engineer

4) the mixer

4) the masterer

5) the company who make the stamper and all that stuff I do not understand

 

....every 45 that is played should be equalised or 'levels set' (like we do in TV because every company do it different!) so when the dancer hears the tracks, they are at their optimum for why there is an event in the first place! We all know what a dub of a dub of a dub can do to a master down the line, so fidelity is important if it can be achieved especially these days when systems may use better components to reproduce analogue waveforms.

[TOAD]

Over the last year or so I have been to a number of events and have some observations form a dancers perspective.

Without the DJ and their expertise we are doomed, as I always say, to Lieutenant Pigeon and 'Mouldy Old Dough'! They take the risk with their collection and often play tracks that are out the vector, which for me is good, as it opens up my mind to new and exciting material never heard before. However, from a dance perspective and I say that because many events boast 'great dance floor' etc, I find that at certain times the dance momentum interrupted by playing a completely opposite bpm or style that is disruptive to the natural rhythm, flow and timing needed to show off on the dance floor. Going from what I believe is a ballad of say 95bpm to a faster tempo 130bpm and back again. Then a spurious Motown cut is played and then another half speed 'other' unknown which sends me to the bar for my J2O sugar kick.

If I hear 'If this is love', why not follow it with a couple more Detroit or that 'What kind of lady' with a couple of the same era Philly cuts? Also the groove is important to the dancer. If a track has the right groove, but is unknown I can tolerate and maybe get to like it before I exit stage left. For example that 'Dearly beloved'/Jack Montgomery song...great Detroit 'shuffle' groove so typical of what came out of the city at that time. That track along with countless other Detroit releases are like 2 fingers in a glove because they often were recorded in the same studio and feature some of the same musicians and 'see below'.

Another major issue I have personally is with high frequencies being, hi hat, tambourine metallic percussion etc. If the producer wished it to be silenced or removed he would not have put it on in the first place, so why equalise it off today? Some presentations are 'flat', no bass and certainly no high frequencies. No event advertises 'come and dance to some great soul with at least 30% of the high frequencies and kick drum equalised off ' do they, so why do it! Maybe events should advertise 'with a 50% chance of hearing the directors intent in the first place with hiss, if needs be'. Tongue in cheek of course but.....bearing in mind:

1) Tape stock

2) the studio

3) the engineer

4) the mixer

4) the masterer

5) the company who make the stamper and all that stuff I do not understand

....every 45 that is played should be equalised or 'levels set' (like we do in TV because every company do it different!) so when the dancer hears the tracks, they are at their optimum for why there is an event in the first place! We all know what a dub of a dub of a dub can do to a master down the line, so fidelity is important if it can be achieved especially these days when systems may use better components to reproduce analogue waveforms.

you what!!!what are you on about?

[KevH]

Over the last year or so I have been to a number of events and have some observations form a dancers perspective.

 

Without the DJ and their expertise we are doomed, as I always say, to Lieutenant Pigeon and 'Mouldy Old Dough'! They take the risk with their collection and often play tracks that are out the vector, which for me is good, as it opens up my mind to new and exciting material never heard before. However, from a dance perspective and I say that because many events boast 'great dance floor' etc, I find that at certain times the dance momentum interrupted by playing a completely opposite bpm or style that is disruptive to the natural rhythm, flow and timing needed to show off on the dance floor. Going from what I believe is a ballad of say 95bpm to a faster tempo 130bpm and back again. Then a spurious Motown cut is played and then another half speed 'other' unknown which sends me to the bar for my J2O sugar kick.

 

If I hear 'If this is love', why not follow it with a couple more Detroit or that 'What kind of lady' with a couple of the same era Philly cuts? Also the groove is important to the dancer. If a track has the right groove, but is unknown I can tolerate and maybe get to like it before I exit stage left. For example that 'Dearly beloved'/Jack Montgomery song...great Detroit 'shuffle' groove so typical of what came out of the city at that time. That track along with countless other Detroit releases are like 2 fingers in a glove because they often were recorded in the same studio and feature some of the same musicians and 'see below'. 

 

Another major issue I have personally is with high frequencies being, hi hat, tambourine metallic percussion etc. If the producer wished it to be silenced or removed he would not have put it on in the first place, so why equalise it off today? Some presentations are 'flat', no bass and certainly no high frequencies. No event advertises 'come and dance to some great soul with at least 30% of the high frequencies and kick drum equalised off ' do they, so why do it! Maybe events should advertise 'with a 50% chance of hearing the directors intent in the first place with hiss, if needs be'. Tongue in cheek of course but.....bearing in mind:

 

1) Tape stock

2) the studio

3) the engineer

4) the mixer

4) the masterer

5) the company who make the stamper and all that stuff I do not understand

 

....every 45 that is played should be equalised or 'levels set' (like we do in TV because every company do it different!) so when the dancer hears the tracks, they are at their optimum for why there is an event in the first place! We all know what a dub of a dub of a dub can do to a master down the line, so fidelity is important if it can be achieved especially these days when systems may use better components to reproduce analogue waveforms.

 

 

Err,wow.!!

[Pete S]

You know these podcasts I do?  Northern ones, Ska ones etc...well I know many of you have listened to one or two.  Well you may think the track list is either random or very meticulously planned out, but actually every one is done via it's BPM, so they usually start off with fast dancers and slow down as they progress.  

[Mark R]

Over the last year or so I have been to a number of events and have some observations form a dancers perspective.

 

Without the DJ and their expertise we are doomed, as I always say, to Lieutenant Pigeon and 'Mouldy Old Dough'! They take the risk with their collection and often play tracks that are out the vector, which for me is good, as it opens up my mind to new and exciting material never heard before. However, from a dance perspective and I say that because many events boast 'great dance floor' etc, I find that at certain times the dance momentum interrupted by playing a completely opposite bpm or style that is disruptive to the natural rhythm, flow and timing needed to show off on the dance floor. Going from what I believe is a ballad of say 95bpm to a faster tempo 130bpm and back again. Then a spurious Motown cut is played and then another half speed 'other' unknown which sends me to the bar for my J2O sugar kick.

 

If I hear 'If this is love', why not follow it with a couple more Detroit or that 'What kind of lady' with a couple of the same era Philly cuts? Also the groove is important to the dancer. If a track has the right groove, but is unknown I can tolerate and maybe get to like it before I exit stage left. For example that 'Dearly beloved'/Jack Montgomery song...great Detroit 'shuffle' groove so typical of what came out of the city at that time. That track along with countless other Detroit releases are like 2 fingers in a glove because they often were recorded in the same studio and feature some of the same musicians and 'see below'. 

 

Another major issue I have personally is with high frequencies being, hi hat, tambourine metallic percussion etc. If the producer wished it to be silenced or removed he would not have put it on in the first place, so why equalise it off today? Some presentations are 'flat', no bass and certainly no high frequencies. No event advertises 'come and dance to some great soul with at least 30% of the high frequencies and kick drum equalised off ' do they, so why do it! Maybe events should advertise 'with a 50% chance of hearing the directors intent in the first place with hiss, if needs be'. Tongue in cheek of course but.....bearing in mind:

 

1) Tape stock

2) the studio

3) the engineer

4) the mixer

4) the masterer

5) the company who make the stamper and all that stuff I do not understand

 

....every 45 that is played should be equalised or 'levels set' (like we do in TV because every company do it different!) so when the dancer hears the tracks, they are at their optimum for why there is an event in the first place! We all know what a dub of a dub of a dub can do to a master down the line, so fidelity is important if it can be achieved especially these days when systems may use better components to reproduce analogue waveforms.

 

Regards the reproduction of the sound, I agree with what you are saying up to a point, but if you're going to be that fussy then you need a man on the dance floor side of the decks controlling things, because the sound is ever changing with the dynamics of the room!

 

We used to set up for Soul Purpose, and when we'd done as much as we could I used to say, "anyway, let's tweek it when the rooms full as there's no point spending too long on it as it will all change with people in the room"!

 

And in my experience, you are being extremely optimistic anyway!! LOL

 

 

Cheers,

Mark R 

[Labeat]

I say set the system at a happy medium, a dj cannot always hear whats coming out of the speakers and he can't fanny about adjusting to every record.

If something is not quite right then the lads are always at hand to inform him/her so as to try and rectify.

You can get too bogged down with rocket science!

[Guest Carl Dixon]

Agreed, and as the room fills and gets busier! I guess as I work in broadcasting and record, mix and master my own songs, I get a little paranoid about levels. If you had a valuable record to play at an event I am sure everybody would want to hear it at its best. The ears are good at filling in the blanks, but if it's there in the first place...exploit it.

 

I also have noticed the more talc and spilt drinks on the dance floor the later it gets, the cement effect takes place. I question whether talc being sent all over the place gets in the records grooves and effects fidelity ha ha....I know if I was playing expensive records and talc came anywhere near them, I think I would actually say something like 'can you take your £1.30 tin of talc away from my £65 record please'!

Edited April 23, 2014 by Carl Dixon

[Mark S]

Are you lot smokin the crack pipe or something ? A DJ puts a sound on its either good or shite we dance or we dont , not bothered about BPM the record either moves you or it doesnt .

[Guest Carl Dixon]

In a nutshell.....correct Mark. But to my discerning ear which also suffers a 4khz slight loss/dip, I am extremely grateful to those DJ's that bother to equalise any sound so I can enjoy  a little better. As for bpm, highly important for me. The difference between a Fullers pint of Honeydew and a Budweiser me thinks. Indeed if it's a good record though all my tosh goes out the window, I will wiggle to anything if push comes to shove.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Carl Dixon

[Russ Vickers]

You see this puts much of the discussion regarding what constitutes 'Djing' in to a very useful context. At least after Froggy's experiences with Larry Levan and the slow introduction of the Technics 1200 (and later 1210), the techical apsects of DJing changed in some musical forms, indeed in Hip Hop and Electro Funk this particular skill constituted a particular aspect of credibility. The days of just fading from one record to another and talking were over. This kind of DJing had been predominat prior to the early 1980s but it is clear that it was soon not enough and that technical ability mattered.

 

Within this context, the concentration of original vinyl only (ovo) could be sustained only in so far as the technical horizon was delimited by practical accessibility. This was a development which was positive and negative, and would ultimately result in the 'goatee scratching self interested musical navel gazing' that can sometimes be seen in certain quarters. However, if DJing is about engaging with a crowd and developing a musical dynamic then DJs such as Jazzy Jeff et al remain pre-eminent. Yet despite such developments over the last 30 odd years some of you here appear to want to concentrate on the issue of whether the vinyl being played is original or not. This is nonsensical and ignores the fact that audience expectations have changed in this time, talking and fading from A to B is simply not enough, and as a potential paying punter I would find it simply unacceptable if this was how the evening developed. I expect, if not demand, musical knowledege, musical empathy and technical skills, not pre-1980 self-mythologising attempts at authenticity (whatever that actually means). As a DJ I expect more than a simple A-B mixer, without a decent cross fade etc. 

 

In my very humble view there are some apparent 'big name' DJs out there whose understanding of DJing as a technical skill remains rooted in the past, despite many of the innovations that have taken place over the subsequent years. Their reputations are based on the past, within a modern contextual narrative (all things being equal) they would not survive more than five minutes. The only reason for their apparent predominance is 'age' and 'who you / they know'.No wonder that for some the re-edit scene provided a lifeline that empowered them to appear to remain relevant and knowledgeable about current developements. The fact is they have no technical ability of their own and have to seek continuing legitimation through the work of others.

 

Looking at the bigger picture is it any reason that some sections of 'the scene' (not limited to 'Northern') are on their knees? Poor presentation against modern expectations are particularly relevant in passing the musical flame on, unless you want to criticize modern DJs for not using original vinyl or worshipping at the feet of Wigan etc. This is a spectatcular case of musical onanism.

 

And this is without considering the wider contextual narratives of class and race, especially in respect of 'Northern Soul', predicated on a black musical art form.

 

It reaally makes for a depressing situation, and some of you are responsible for this with your posturing regarding an imagined authenticity.

 

Rob Alias 

I have absolutely no idea what you are on about, are you on the wrong forum ? & as for the Youtube clip I lasted 1.47 & that was painful in the extreme....virtually nothing you have said has any relevance to the NS Scene & the Youtube clip has me totally flumuxed as to how in any way shape or form that can be put into context with regards to the playing of records at NS dances....errrmmmm a troll methinks...but if not, get real no relevance to NS what so ever....

[Labeat]

Are you lot smokin the crack pipe or something ? A DJ puts a sound on its either good or shite we dance or we dont , not bothered about BPM the record either moves you or it doesnt .

 

You don't mince your words do you Mark, a spades a shovel eh?

[Mark R]

Agreed, and as the room fills and gets busier! I guess as I work in broadcasting and record, mix and master my own songs, I get a little paranoid about levels. If you had a valuable record to play at an event I am sure everybody would want to hear it at its best. The ears are good at filling in the blanks, but if it's there in the first place...exploit it.

 

I also have noticed the more talc and spilt drinks on the dance floor the later it gets, the cement effect takes place. I question whether talc being sent all over the place gets in the records grooves and effects fidelity ha ha....I know if I was playing expensive records and talc came anywhere near them, I think I would actually say something like 'can you take your £1.30 tin of talc away from my £65 record please'!

 

Mate, don't get me started on talc/records.  Luckily I don't need to play rarer 7's out much, but when I do I'm always armed with my CD-R's of said tunes in case there's too much talc about!!  Anybody that thinks I'm playing valuable records in that atmosphere can fook off, OVO or no OVO!!  Same goes for shit equipment with 2p pieces on etc............no way man!!  What I can say is that I would never play anything off CD-R that I don't actually own.............that's my own personal rule and not because I'm afraid of what people think!

 

I really struggle with any argument against this!

 

 

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest Dave Ward]

It's a packed all-nighter, 4:00 am and the place is rocking, It's Mr DJ next, hold on a minute, silence. He's just plugging in his personal Technics decks, He announces, over the sterilised mike, " Please could you all be quiet, while we do a full sound check, strobe the decks, adjust the gain and vacuum the floor."

[Mellorful]

Mate, don't get me started on talc/records.  Luckily I don't need to play rarer 7's out much, but when I do I'm always armed with my CD-R's of said tunes in case there's too much talc about!!  Anybody that thinks I'm playing valuable records in that atmosphere can fook off, OVO or no OVO!!  Same goes for shit equipment with 2p pieces on etc............no way man!!  What I can say is that I would never play anything off CD-R that I don't actually own.............that's my own personal rule and not because I'm afraid of what people think!

 

I really struggle with any argument against this!

 

 

Cheers,

Mark R

I have been known to take both an original and second issue so if I have concerns about the equipment or environment I play the latter. Better a £10 reissue is risked than a £60 first issue.

To protect their vinyl some DJ's take their own needles (eg ortofon MkII) and swap em over before they start their set.  

[Mark R]

It's a packed all-nighter, 4:00 am and the place is rocking, It's Mr DJ next, hold on a minute, silence. He's just plugging in his personal Technics decks, He announces, over the sterilised mike, " Please could you all be quiet, while we do a full sound check, strobe the decks, adjust the gain and vacuum the floor."

Well I've certainly seen DJ Spinna & Co. hotwire their Traktor between sets without interrupting the flow!!

Cheers,

Mark R

[Guest Matt Male]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=2yxnhoLQ_hk

 

From 1986 DJ Cheese performing his Disco Mix Club (DMC) Championship routine. This is clearly evidence of how the technical aspects of DJing had changed, and I think helps to put some of the discussions regarding DJing here in to some perspective.

 

Rob Alias

 

 

What a fookin racket!  

 

I don't see what scratching and mixing records together so they can't be danced to and just create a continuous noise has much to do with northern soul DJs. The best DJs in my opinion have an ear for tunes that allow them to mix together a fluent spot from what should be lots of disperate elements. So 60s, 70s, funk, modern, soul etc... can all exist together in the same spot in an almost natural way. Very few DJs have the skill that lets them do this. Butch is one, Pat Bleasdale is another, off the top of my head.

 

It's not a technical thing, it's called taste and a great ear.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Matt Male

[Guest Matt Male]

So there really is a DJ School.?

 

 

Yes Kev, didn't you know? Next time I see you mate, give me £500 for a quick starter course.

[Harry Crosby]

WTF are you on about???

        Love it

[Labeat]

Yes Kev, didn't you know? Next time I see you mate, give me £500 for a quick starter course.

 

Starter or Inter?

[TOAD]

If you didn't go to Wigan shut your mouth as it's irritating to include it in pointless waffle

[Len]

What a fookin racket!  

 

 

Hu'f*ckin'rray!.....I thought it was just me turning into my Dad!.........My 5 year old Daughter makes better sounds when playing Drums with Sauspans - Seriously!

 

I can not see the 'skill' in just making noise.

 

IMHO of course  

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited April 23, 2014 by LEN

[Russ Vickers]

What a fookin racket!  

 

I don't see what scratching and mixing records together so they can't be danced to and just create a continuous noise has much to do with northern soul DJs. The best DJs in my opinion have an ear for tunes that allow them to mix together a fluent spot from what should be lots of disperate elements. So 60s, 70s, funk, modern, soul etc... can all exist together in the same spot in an almost natural way. Very few DJs have the skill that lets them do this. Butch is one, Pat Bleasdale is another, off the top of my head.

 

It's not a technical thing, it's called taste and great (G)ear.

[KevH]

Yes Kev, didn't you know? Next time I see you mate, give me £500 for a quick starter course.

[KevH]

I would have thought it was obvious Matt

[KevH]

What a fookin racket!

I don't see what scratching and mixing records together so they can't be danced to and just create a continuous noise has much to do with northern soul DJs. The best DJs in my opinion have an ear for tunes that allow them to mix together a fluent spot from what should be lots of disperate elements. So 60s, 70s, funk, modern, soul etc... can all exist together in the same spot in an almost natural way. Very few DJs have the skill that lets them do this. Butch is one, Pat Bleasdale is another, off the top of my head.

It's not a technical thing, it's called taste and a great ear.

. Davie Crockett had a wild front ear .

[pow wow mik]

x

you what!!!what are you on about?

the e.q. !

bullshit aside, it is very important to understand this if you're playing 60s music, almost every track will require the top end adjusting to suit. And the man is right, what is the obsession with turning the bass up and top end down - just makes a muddy noise.

Hmmm, judging from the lack of response from the thread starter, the thread's a wind up. Someone having fun with some meaningless sociology waffle is my guess, although a strange way to have your fun. Maybe it makes up for deep-rooted frustrations in other areas...

Edited April 23, 2014 by pow wow mik

[Godzilla]

Yerrrrr! Mixing and cutting records together to make a unique and exciting dancing experience ain't for me. I pine for the old days when they played the records all the way through (only with the DJ rambling over the intro and the final third)

[Labeat]

Thread start.... everyone then must know who DJ Cheese is.... except me

[Modernsoulsucks]

He's a famous Spanish house dj, Gordon Zola.

 

ROD

[Guest Rob Alias]

this 'argument' is irrelevant to the soul scene. The music is not generally made to be beat mixed, its sounds rubbish when someone starts trying to scratch over/with it, and by the same argument I could say anyone playing reggae out is no good because they're not employing either of those methods and mostly use one deck and a mic. Certain methods of presenting music as a DJ work with certain styles of music and not always with others, do what suits at the time and in the environment and stop trying to compare or impose rules, as there is the dichotomy, by attempting to break the rules you are in effect making rules again. A good DJ wil do what is best in the environment to best present the music they are playing, beyond that what else should they be doing?

 

cheers Sutty

 

Hello Sutty.

 

I would have to disagree with the idea that this has noting to do with the 'soul scene', in fairness you would have to acknowledge the fact that there might possibly be more than one way within a particular musical genre working to different accepted conventions. There is also the issue of, '[...] the music is not generally made to be beat mixed'. Now this would be right up to a particular point in time, but at least since the introduction of the 12" single (thanks Tom Moulton) music has changed, certainly structurally, especially as music was issued with a very particular intention (a dancefloor) and certainly as Levan, Gibbons, Moulton, Pettibone et al all developed their particular musical frameworks over a period of time, and as new musical forms developed. Soul records were certainly issued during this period specifically aimied at DJs (remember this period also saw the emergence of the Disco Mix Club (DMC) which embraced all musical styles), and for good AND bad beat mixing influenced how records were produced and intended to be heard (frequencies, introduction/ break/ extended outro break etc). I'm certainly not suggesting that the fact of a 12" single having such qualities means it is necessarily good or danceable, we have all (I'm sure) heard records which really didn't need to be extended, being perfectly listenable AND useable in their original formats.

 

Reggae is a very interesting proposition as the multiple use of the same rhythm track (which has been a very important part of the scene) effectively bypasses the need to 'mix', if anything it makes it very easy to move from A to B to C, even if it can get a little boring. 

 

My point here is not to introduce rules, merely to highlight the discrepancy that I see when the issue of DJing on the NS scene is discussed, which in comparison to many other musical scenes appears to concentrate its efforts on the authenticity / obscurity of the records being played, with arguments regarding vinyl only policy versus CDs mp3s, rather than any technical ability that could be exhibited by the DJ. In this respect it appears perilously close to presenting multiple ossified horizons of perspective, which can only result in eventual decay. 

 

Rob Alias   

[Guest Rob Alias]

 

 

 

 

I will admit Philthat that title appears to have passed me by, and it is highly unlikely to appear on my reading list soon!

 

Rob Alias

[Guest Rob Alias]

I have been known to take both an original and second issue so if I have concerns about the equipment or environment I play the latter. Better a £10 reissue is risked than a £60 first issue.

To protect their vinyl some DJ's take their own needles (eg ortofon MkII) and swap em over before they start their set.  

 

To be honest when I first read this I was really, really shocked at the idea that only, '[...] some DJs take their own needles'! I thought that would have become accepted (if not expected practice) by now, surely?

 

Rob Alias 

[Guest Rob Alias]

I'd be happy if the Dj actually knew how to use a turntable and didn't keep turning the gains up because they think it's the volume control. 

 

I know a load of so called big name Dj's and so called promoters who don't understand the first thing about PA.

 

Very true, many is the Sound Engineer who has to constantly remind the DJ that flashing red lights is not a good thing! It shows a complete failure to understand the way musical dynamics work!

 

Frankly, if I put on an event and the DJ shows up apparently not knowing what to do with a turntable, they would not play. Or their own needles. They would not play. But in return I wouldn't expect DJs to play on badly damaged 1200-1210s, or on a dual deck single unit cd player, or through a sound system that has been set to be all 'boom and tizz'. And for digital DJs, 320 conversion rate minimum, WAVs or FLACs, otherwise eventually the punter's ears will start to bleed. 

 

It is about providing a great sounding night, after all people are paying to attend (in most instances) and you do want them to come back! It seems obvious that pushing technical standards of presentation up would be seen as a good thing. 

 

Rob Alias 

[Guest Rob Alias]

funk and soul sets can and are mixed together very well off the scene, take someone like scruff, his southport mix cd from a few year back retained the credibilty and essence of every cut, yet they were enhanced by the records blended either side of them. Kenny dope, DJ spinna and a host of others have done it really well.  would I trust anyone to do it well on the northern scene? your having a warlocks staff! 

 

Yup, all great DJs, buy why wouldn't you want to see if it could be done in a way that remained concerned with keeping the dancefloor moving?

 

Rob Alias 

[Russ Vickers]

Very true, many is the Sound Engineer who has to constantly remind the DJ that flashing red lights is not a good thing! It shows a complete failure to understand the way musical dynamics work!

 

Frankly, if I put on an event and the DJ shows up apparently not knowing what to do with a turntable, they would not play. Or their own needles. They would not play. But in return I wouldn't expect DJs to play on badly damaged 1200-1210s, or on a dual deck single unit cd player, or through a sound system that has been set to be all 'boom and tizz'. And for digital DJs, 320 conversion rate minimum, WAVs or FLACs, otherwise eventually the punter's ears will start to bleed. 

 

It is about providing a great sounding night, after all people are paying to attend (in most instances) and you do want them to come back! It seems obvious that pushing technical standards of presentation up would be seen as a good thing. 

 

Rob Alias 

 

The promoter should ensure the kit is fit for purpose & the sound engineer is on hand to tweek as required through out the night.  Needles should be appropriate to the genre of music being played at the event, new if rerquired, with spare sets on hand.

 

I am not a DJ.  I am a collector who occasionally gets to share my music, I do not have a clue how to set the kit up (thats why when I promote, I pay a man who can).  I can cue up, put 2 records together reasonably well without playing the slip mat, I can use a mic & I can use the gain to get the best sound from a lo fi record when required.  I do not carry my own needles, as I would be concerned as to how this would effect balance etc, I can imagine that if all NS DJ's carried thier own needles, 2 or 3 DJ's in the set up would be all over the place.....I expect to turn up with everything ready to go & do my thing on good kit, that has been set up correctly, with new, good quality needles.....anything less than that then I would have concerns about playing..... 

 

think thats about the bottom line.....

 

I dont think anyone would argue with this...

 

'It is about providing a great sounding night, after all people are paying to attend (in most instances) and you do want them to come back! It seems obvious that pushing technical standards of presentation up would be seen as a good thing'. 

 

I 

Best Russ

Edited April 24, 2014 by Russ Vickers

[Dave Rimmer]

. In this respect it appears perilously close to presenting multiple ossified horizons of perspective, which can only result in eventual decay. 

 

 

        WTF !

Edited April 24, 2014 by Dave Rimmer