Come On Now Which Ones The Rarest

[Guest Dave Turner]

Don't agree with comments stating that Timi Yuro never made a soul record–her version of "When Something Is Wrong With My Baby" on Frequency produced by Willie Mitchell surely qualifies on every level.

 

Although Timi Yuro can be characterised as a Pop singer in the generic sense there was a huge amount of soul in practically everything she sang and her importance as a singer of tremendous emotional depth is there for all to hear. Skin colour is irrelevant on this one because she was the real deal.

 

Recorded at Wessex Sound in Islington, meaning in the same room as Anarchy In The UK and Blue Is The Colour. Strange but true.

 

But back on thread neither of these records is rare.

 

And backed with a very good cover of Toussaint McCall's great "Nothing Takes The Place Of You"

 

 

Her bluesey/jazzy "I'm Movin' On" is one of the blackest sounding female vocals I know.

[Wiggyflat]

I like them both...Timi probably did come out in the UK first as it was arranged by my south London neighbour Ian Green who is married to a member of The Orlons.

[Guest]

I love both of them.  And with the Darrell banks you get the best double sider ever.

That Buddy Smith is awful though.  And yes, I know I'm the only one on here who doesn't like it.

Au contraire!     

[Guest]

And why are so many ' Soul Collectors ' obsessed with getting 60's 45's on UK issues / Demos .... if a great (or not so great) track was recorded and released in Chicago, Detroit, or whatever, surely that is the truest and most original recording to obtain as a proper appreciation of top 60's Soul, on the 1st US release ?!?

Apart from the fact that TU has no US 45 release!

[maslar]

Each to their own, of course, Pete. 

 

The DB is all about owning the rarest format of an otherwise very easily obtainable 45. It's about collecting rare things - objects as trophies.

 

The Timi Yuro is about a sublime slice of soul that just happens to be rare. It's music as a trophy. To me there's a big difference.

 

Mind you, find both in a charity shop for a quid each when I've only got one coin and one way or another I'd not leave either of them behind!

 

This doesn't really make sense. Are you saying DB isn't a worthy soul record? I think the TY is ok but to suggest its a better soul record than Revilot 201 or that TY is a better soul singer than Darrell Banks is in my opinion a little much. I know there's no accounting for taste but come on...

[maslar]

You would never have to spend a fortune to own either of these as original releases, D. Banks on US Revilot 1st press (actually the TRUE original) very cheap and quite plentiful on Ebay, and the Timi Yuro is found on the LP ' Something bad ' on UK Liberty, an original 60's item that comes up sometimes for an affordable sum (mine cost me £6 from a record fair).

 

Plentiful on ebay?  Well there's  always  a few copies but most are either boots or in less than ideal condition. You can get a top condition copy from a dealer for about £40.00. That makes it "rare" in my book. Not super rare or mega-rare but it is a rare record in anywhere near mint condition. Of course you can go down the elitist route where the only things that are "rare" are so rare no one's seen them and anything else is scoffed at, but that's neither here nor there.

 

 Why would anyone want to spend £10 to £20 for "styrene VG or VG+" for such an iconic record? It's always going to be worth forking out that little bit more for a nice copy

 

There might be a few copies on ebay but how many top condition originals pop up over  the course of a year? Not that many..

[maslar]

Don't agree with comments stating that Timi Yuro never made a soul record–her version of "When Something Is Wrong With My Baby" on Frequency produced by Willie Mitchell surely qualifies on every level.

 

Although Timi Yuro can be characterised as a Pop singer in the generic sense there was a huge amount of soul in practically everything she sang and her importance as a singer of tremendous emotional depth is there for all to hear. Skin colour is irrelevant on this one because she was the real deal.

 

Recorded at Wessex Sound in Islington, meaning in the same room as Anarchy In The UK and Blue Is The Colour. Strange but true.

 

But back on thread neither of these records is rare.

 

If a record regularly sells for £500 then it's a rare record. Obviously terms such as "rare" carry a degree of subjectivity but in record collecting terms both can be safely placed in the "rare" category. . 

[Liamgp]

As an ender, or music to be cremated to, Timi Yuro has very little competition as it oozes with so much soul, it chokes you.

 

I would think if you're being cremated, 'It'll Never Be Over For Me' is a little inaccurate.

[Amsterdam Russ]

This doesn't really make sense. Are you saying DB isn't a worthy soul record? I think the TY is ok but to suggest its a better soul record than Revilot 201 or that TY is a better soul singer than Darrell Banks is in my opinion a little much. I know there's no accounting for taste but come on...

You misunderstand. Can't see where I even get close to suggesting that "DB isn't a worthy soul record", whatever that means.

 

My point is that one is not a rare tune (two tunes to precise as it's a double-sider), but is rare in a couple of 45rpm formats. The other is a rare tune on 45 no matter how you look at it.

 

Having DB as a London or Stateside demo is more about having a rare object than anything else. You can have the songs in a number of other, cheaper 45 formats. It's 45 rpm trophyism. Timi Yuro, on the other hand, is only available on 45 rpm via the Liberty single. It is both a rare (subjective term) object and a rare tune. 

 

Mind you, even rarer is the Timi Yuro acetate that featured in a thread here some years back. Now that I would quite like to own ;-)

[Cunnie]

I like them both...Timi probably did come out in the UK first as it was arranged by my south London neighbour Ian Green who is married to a member of The Orlons.

Ian Green is married to Rosetta Hightower of the Orlons like you say.

He is also my managers Father & she is his Step Mother.

Sounds a great story but in reality my manager is about as soulful as a rusty nail.

Timi Yuro also got a Stardust release, know how you all feel about the Stardust label but as far as I know they are legit & they even have the address printed on the label so hardly a bootleg. They also did test presses on hand written labels that are probably one off's of each release. Know this as the Wife has the Timi Yuro/Gene McDaniels test press copy (honest it's her's & not mine!!!).

[Pete S]

You misunderstand. Can't see where I even get close to suggesting that "DB isn't a worthy soul record", whatever that means.

 

My point is that one is not a rare tune (two tunes to precise as it's a double-sider), but is rare in a couple of 45rpm formats. The other is a rare tune on 45 no matter how you look at it.

 

Having DB as a London or Stateside demo is more about having a rare object than anything else. You can have the songs in a number of other, cheaper 45 formats. It's 45 rpm trophyism. Timi Yuro, on the other hand, is only available on 45 rpm via the Liberty single. It is both a rare (subjective term) object and a rare tune. 

 

Mind you, even rarer is the Timi Yuro acetate that featured in a thread here some years back. Now that I would quite like to own ;-)

 

I remain unconvinced about that one.

[maslar]

You misunderstand. Can't see where I even get close to suggesting that "DB isn't a worthy soul record", whatever that means.

 

My point is that one is not a rare tune (two tunes to precise as it's a double-sider), but is rare in a couple of 45rpm formats. The other is a rare tune on 45 no matter how you look at it.

 

Having DB as a London or Stateside demo is more about having a rare object than anything else. You can have the songs in a number of other, cheaper 45 formats. It's 45 rpm trophyism. Timi Yuro, on the other hand, is only available on 45 rpm via the Liberty single. It is both a rare (subjective term) object and a rare tune. 

 

Mind you, even rarer is the Timi Yuro acetate that featured in a thread here some years back. Now that I would quite like to own ;-)

 

Yes trophyism  - an essential feature of  of record collecting - or any type of collecting. Look at the price that Beatles UK demos fetch compared to standard issue.

[Pete S]

Ian Green is married to Rosetta Hightower of the Orlons like you say.

He is also my managers Father & she is his Step Mother.

Sounds a great story but in reality my manager is about as soulful as a rusty nail.

Timi Yuro also got a Stardust release, know how you all feel about the Stardust label but as far as I know they are legit & they even have the address printed on the label so hardly a bootleg. They also did test presses on hand written labels that are probably one off's of each release. Know this as the Wife has the Timi Yuro/Gene McDaniels test press copy (honest it's her's & not mine!!!).

 

I may be wrong but I don't think there is any way Stardust could have got the rights to every single record they felt like releasing

[Amsterdam Russ]

I remain unconvinced about that one.

Likewise, but the strong element of doubt adds to the intrigue and gives it an aura of excitement for me. It's a disc full of possibilities: is it, isn't it? And if it is - who, what, where, when and why?? ;-)

[Amsterdam Russ]

Yes trophyism  - an essential feature of  of record collecting - or any type of collecting. Look at the price that Beatles UK demos fetch compared to standard issue.

Phew, I made sense, or at least partial sense in the end ;-)

[Cunnie]

I may be wrong but I don't think there is any way Stardust could have got the rights to every single record they felt like releasing

Pretty much my thoughts too Pete but no-one seems to know for sure.

Also several have Soul on one side & pop on the other, Gene McDaniels & Timi Yuro

[Guest]

D.B second time up on eBay so the 500 might reflect why but as for which one both good tracks but the classic for me D.B

[Garethx]

Pretty much my thoughts too Pete but no-one seems to know for sure.

Also several have Soul on one side & pop on the other, Gene McDaniels & Timi Yuro

Gene McDaniles=pop; Timi Yuro=soul?

[Cunnie]

Gene McDaniles=pop; Timi Yuro=soul?

Now is that the right way round Gareth?

[John Reed]

If a record regularly sells for £500 then it's a rare record. Obviously terms such as "rare" carry a degree of subjectivity but in record collecting terms both can be safely placed in the "rare" category. .

I don't really agree with your comment. Because a record sells for £500 doesn't mean its rare, more that its in-demand. There are many rarer records that sell for less as they're not in vogue or dancers. Edited April 22, 2014 by John Reed

[Pete S]

Now is that the right way round Gareth?

 

I think it is...

[Frankie Crocker]

I would think if you're being cremated, 'It'll Never Be Over For Me' is a little inaccurate.

Unless there's soul music in the afterlife... 

[Sheldonsoul]

Gene McDaniles=pop; Timi Yuro=soul?

Now that's a mind boggler , never heard gene mcd classed as pop !

[Garethx]

But none of the Gene McDaniels records ever played on the Northern scene were ever conceived as any kind of soul music, even Walk With A Winner. At that stage in his career he was very firmly a pop singer who just happened to be an Afro-American. What have Green Door, Tower Of Strength, Chip Chip, Hang On etc. got to do with soul music?

[Pete S]

But none of the Gene McDaniels records ever played on the Northern scene were ever conceived as any kind of soul music, even Walk With A Winner. At that stage in his career he was very firmly a pop singer who just happened to be an Afro-American. What have Green Door, Tower Of Strength, Chip Chip, Hang On etc. got to do with soul music?

 

Have to agree, he's a pop singer.  WWAW is a great record but the Timi Yuro oozes soul compared to it.

[ricticman]

I love both of them.  And with the Darrell banks you get the best double sider ever.

That Buddy Smith is awful though.  And yes, I know I'm the only one on here who doesn't like it.

 

Now now Pete,

 

Don't get carried away

 

The Inticers on Baby Luv is maybe the best double sider ever.

 

I.M.H.O. of course. [ but feck it, I'm right  ]

 

love and kisses

 

pete

[Pete S]

Now now Pete,

 

Don't get carried away

 

The Inticers on Baby Luv is maybe the best double sider ever.

 

I.M.H.O. of course. [ but feck it, I'm right  ]

 

love and kisses

 

pete

 

That Inticers is a criminal waste of vinyl.

[maslar]

But none of the Gene McDaniels records ever played on the Northern scene were ever conceived as any kind of soul music, even Walk With A Winner. At that stage in his career he was very firmly a pop singer who just happened to be an Afro-American. What have Green Door, Tower Of Strength, Chip Chip, Hang On etc. got to do with soul music?

 

I would say that Gene McDaniels was a jazz singer first and foremost and a soulful jazz singer at that. He also wrote one of the greatest (soulful)  protest songs of all time - Compared To What - the message of which is still very relevant today.

 

Class is class. You've either got it or you haven't and Gene McDaniels obviously had This clip recorded less than two weeks before his death. aged 76.

 

[Garethx]

I don't see the Liberty part of his career as jazz. He made some fine music though. From the British film "It's Trad, Dad" a great Burt Bacharach tune.

 

[El Corol]

I love Another Tear Falls - did Lou Johnson ever do a version?

[Garethx]

I love Another Tear Falls - did Lou Johnson ever do a version?

Marv Johnson on United Artists.

[El Corol]

Marv Johnson on United Artists.

Thanks Gareth. I think it would have suited

Lou's voice /style very well.