Is This The Most Expensive U.k Soul Single

[Ian Dewhirst]

But was it a 60s press close to the original recording date? It sounds like they didn't have the rights in the end so is technically a boot LOL

 

No, this was a re-issue of a late 60's recording. Plus not really a boot. Permission had been granted but then got withdrawn just after the TPs had been pressed. So more of a lucky accident really......

 

Ian D

[Ian Dewhirst]

Or the 444 Test press of Sam Nesbit. Two great sides so rare nobody knows who's got it!

 

Yep, never seen that either. I take it that it can be verified?

 

Ian D

[Pete S]

No, this was a re-issue of a late 60's recording. Plus not really a boot. Permission had been granted but then got withdrawn just after the TPs had been pressed. So more of a lucky accident really......

 

Ian D

 

No but what I meant before Ian, if it's say an unissued 2 copy only Pye Disco Demand test press of say Stemmons Express, it's not going to make the juices flow as if it were a 2 copy only 1966 Pye International test press...just because it's from the 70's.  And as for not saying what is is..really..Alan Klein's dead now you know

[Ian Dewhirst]

No but what I meant before Ian, if it's say an unissued 2 copy only Pye Disco Demand test press of say Stemmons Express, it's not going to make the juices flow as if it were a 2 copy only 1966 Pye International test press...just because it's from the 70's.  And as for not saying what is is..really..Alan Klein's dead now you know

 

Hahaha. Can't reveal it until the statute of limitations is up unfortunately. It's owned by a major so I don't want any legal eagles swooping down on my ass. Whilst I'd rate it as being the rarest of the rare, it's probably in the same category as the Sam Nesbit, if that actually exists......

 

Ian D

[Ady Croasdell]

Yep, never seen that either. I take it that it can be verified?

Ian D

In so far as 3 respected collectors owned it at one stage and it was sold on to an unknown collector in Leicester who the last of the three can't remember or find! I was the second of the three

[Cover-up]

Hahaha. Can't reveal it until the statute of limitations is up unfortunately. It's owned by a major so I don't want any legal eagles swooping down on my ass. Whilst I'd rate it as being the rarest of the rare, it's probably in the same category as the Sam Nesbit, if that actually exists......

 

Ian D

 

In all seriousness, would any major label even care that a record was accidentally pressed 40 years ago, three were withdrawn and you have one and someone else does too? Most of them don't even KNOW what's in their back catalogues...

[Dean Rudland]

This might seem like a stupid question, but is the Barbara Mills really rare, and perhaps more importantly would there really be any demand for it? Only asking because I bought a copy in a car boot sale in the mid 90s - not great condition - and it has sat on my shelf ever since.

[Andrea Ko]

I have a Big Maybelle "I Can't Wait Any Longer" on CBS. I think the tune is even better produced than the one on rojak. How is it usually valued? 50ish?

[Ian]

Hahaha. Can't reveal it until the statute of limitations is up unfortunately. It's owned by a major so I don't want any legal eagles swooping down on my ass. Whilst I'd rate it as being the rarest of the rare, it's probably in the same category as the Sam Nesbit, if that actually exists......

 

Ian D

 

Ian could this be a Decca 45 that was due to be issued but withdrawn?  Ian

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian could this be a Decca 45 that was due to be issued but withdrawn?  Ian

 

No I'm afraid not. Nothing really surprises me though, especially when it comes to majors. Lots of records, especially U.S. ones which were generally issued because of contractual obligations often got 'lost' in the systems. There's been many a time when I was @ Decca in the 70's and then EMI in the 80's when something would appear on the schedule, get pressed and then was never heard of again. I'd occasionally get 7" test-pressings delivered to my office asking what I thought about a particular record and whether it would be suitable for the clubs etc. I even received 7" test-pressings from companies in the 70's when I was in Leeds 'cos I was on all the key mailing lists back then. I've still got a couple from this period that I haven't been able to identify yet. The last ones I found were a 12" white test-pressing by a band called Bullet Train which turned out to be a huge Cosmic Disco rarity and a Love Committee 7" "Tired Of Being Your Fool" which was never issued and which now resides in Steve G's collection.....

 

Ian D

[Ibiza Steve]

Someone mentioned the Otis you left the water running single, I believe I have a genuine copy bought in 1980 from Rudzi at boogaloo records leicester, can anyone confirm the matrix number? Also has I think a I'd mark of the presser, I'm off to check

[Guest]

Mick wrote his own credits on his first one though so was probably blank both sides, I've got a scan of it somewhere.

Might have the time on it as well ill dig it out sometime and check

[John Benson]

 and a Love Committee 7" "Tired Of Being Your Fool" which was never issued and which now resides in Steve G's collection.....

 

Ian D

This was actually released Ian, I've never found one personally though......yet 

 

[Steve G]

This was actually released Ian, I've never found one personally though......yet 

 

Love Committee Tired of being your fool.jpeg

 

not in the UK it wasn't….Ian is talking about UK…..

[John Benson]

Sorry Steve, I was about to add that to my comment as to if he meant a UK release but went and forgot myself! 

 

Did it get a release number then - on Salsoul I guess?

Edited April 18, 2014 by John Benson

[Steve G]

Yes John it has a stamped in release number, will dig it out over the weekend…..for ya.

[Souljer6]

Here's a couple:  First Choice -  This is the house - on Pye Int demo   and   Barrino Bros - Trapped in a love -  Invictus508 demo

 

Who has seen either?

[John Benson]

To save Steve the trouble of chasing up the info, there's a thread on here from January 2008 abut the Love Committee test pressing: 

Don't know how I missed it 

A scan would be nice though!

[Pete S]

Here's a couple:  First Choice -  This is the house - on Pye Int demo   and   Barrino Bros - Trapped in a love -  Invictus508 demo

 

Who has seen either?

 

First Choice doesn't actually exist on a Pye Int demo, it's a Pye acetate.  I remember Mick showing it me along with another Pye acetate of a Disco Demand tune that never actually came out, can't remember what it was now but I definitely sold it to him.

He also says he still has a Ben E King - Can't break the news Atlantic test press.  Both sides yellow labels. One side has the title typed on (Goodnight My Love) the other is blank.  Says he has had 4 copies and they have all been like that.

[Sean Hampsey]

Sorry Steve, I was about to add that to my comment as to if he meant a UK release but went and forgot myself! 

 

Did it get a release number then - on Salsoul I guess?

 

 

Hi John,

 

I've got a UK Test Pressing of this. If you recall, I played it at Essence in the goodbye songs on Sunday.

 

Agree the US copy is quite scarce, but the UK one was never issued so it's nice to have.

 

As a 70's UK label Soul record its got to be one of the rarer ones, but no harder than Revelation Movement which was a proper issue immediately withdrawn.

 

 

Sean

 

PS: My UK Timi Yuro cost me a quid from Worksop Market, so how rare can that be

Edited April 19, 2014 by Sean Hampsey

[Mak]

LOL, I saw that copy in the 70's. It's obviously bounced around a bit....

Ian D

I've got the other one Ian , Imber anthem

[Denbo]

The Marlena Shaw - Wade In the Water - on UK Chess is quite rare. It was pressed up using Ramsey Lewis labels in the early 70's. I only know of two, and one of those is rough, but there may be others.

 

Cheers

Mick

Are you talking about a black Chess label Mick? If so, what release number?

Can you remember who has those two copies?

[Denbo]

No I've never had one - I've had one in my hands - to compare it to the vocal - you have to play them otherwise it's just a couple of millimetres difference in the run off groove.

You can actually tell the difference by looking at how much space the grooves take up on the record. The instrumental, being at least 30 seconds shorter than the vocal, takes up noticeably less space. In other words, the runout space is larger on the instrumental. So Pete is nearly correct, you do need both versions side by side to tell the difference without playing the record. Having said that, there is also a way of telling the difference between the two by looking at the numbers in the runout grooves.

[Pete S]

You can actually tell the difference by looking at how much space the grooves take up on the record. The instrumental, being at least 30 seconds shorter than the vocal, takes up noticeably less space. In other words, the runout space is larger on the instrumental. So Pete is nearly correct, you do need both versions side by side to tell the difference without playing the record. Having said that, there is also a way of telling the difference between the two by looking at the numbers in the runout grooves.

 

Actually I don't agree with this, I had both in my hands and although it only lasts a minute and a half, there is no massive run out groove.

[Pete S]

Are you talking about a black Chess label Mick? If so, what release number?

Can you remember who has those two copies?

 

Think it might be blue plastic label or early 70's blue/white shaded

[Gilly]

This might seem like a stupid question, but is the Barbara Mills really rare, and perhaps more importantly would there really be any demand for it? Only asking because I bought a copy in a car boot sale in the mid 90s - not great condition - and it has sat on my shelf ever since.

Its the only issue ive ever seen but there are more knowledgeable people than myself,ive seen several demos and I have to say with the QOF issue being just like the Susie Thompson  Paper Tigers visually the demo does look a lot better.As for the demand on that song maybe not anymore I cant think of that many collectors these days (uk) and the ones I know have pretty much everything going if not a QOF issue

[Denbo]

Actually I don't agree with this, I had both in my hands and although it only lasts a minute and a half, there is no massive run out groove.

Well, I'm looking at both copies as we 'speak' and the runout space is definitely larger on the instrumental.

But I agree, it's not a massive runout on the instrumental like you'd imagine, what with it being at least 30 seconds shorter.

Edited April 19, 2014 by denbo

[Pete S]

Well, I'm looking at both copies as we 'speak' and the runout space is definitely larger on the instrumental.

But I agree, it's not a massive runout on the instrumental like you'd imagine, what with it being at least 30 seconds shorter.

 

Check the matrixes again if you get chance Dennis, I thought they were the same?

[Denbo]

Check the matrixes again if you get chance Dennis, I thought they were the same?

I have and they are different. Subtle but different.

[Mick Holdsworth]

Are you talking about a black Chess label Mick? If so, what release number?

Can you remember who has those two copies?

 

The label is the light blue paper label as used for the 70's reissue of Ramsey Lewis 6145 004

 

It is a mispress of Wade in the water only, using the master for Marlena Shaw, "let's WITW" one one side and the standard Ain't That Pecuilar by Ramsey on the flip.

 

At the time I held it in my hand, I simply couldn't read the matrix/ stampers, but I understand the stamper on the A side actually reads 6145 005, which was scheduled for Marlena but never got released.

 

I came about it by accident, when a guy had it in his box and told be what it was. I offered him £500 on the spot, but he ended up telling JM about it and he got just over £600 on one of his auctions about 6 months later.

 

Before JM got to list it, I put up a want for it on this site, unfortunately I had to be subtle in asking what I was asking for, as, at that point, only someone who actually had it at would know about it. (short of buying every loose copy from junk shops, boxes at venues, internet, the world etc. on the off chance. Which would be an expensive and impossible task.)

 

I must admit, since JM auctioned it, I assumed the "cat was out of the bag" so to speak, but it would appear knowledge of this 45 had escaped most people.

 

I have no idea who won that copy, but in responce to the "want" I put up prior to that, I did get one response with an offer of a poor condition one for either £35 or £65 (can't remember which) but was told that both sided were just about unplayable with background noise and multiple skips, and the A side label had been heavily overwritten with "Marlena Shaw" "Let's" and "Vocal", and credit's refering to Ramsey were obliterated.

 

I turned it down, but have proved to myself that copies are out there as a guarded enquiry did turn another copy, but those who own it are probably unaware of it, as it is not always a record people play. Dealers get 'em in, then move 'em on without ever turning on the deck.

 

Cheers

Mick

Edited April 19, 2014 by Mick Holdsworth

[Goldsoul]

The label is the light blue paper label as used for the 70's reissue of Ramsey Lewis 6145 004

 

It is a mispress of Wade in the water only, using the master for Marlena Shaw, "let's WITW" one one side and the standard Ain't That Pecuilar by Ramsey on the flip.

 

At the time I held it in my hand, I simply couldn't read the matrix/ stampers, but I understand the stamper on the A side actually reads 6145 005, which was scheduled for Marlena but never got released.

 

I came about it by accident, when a guy had it in his box and told be what it was. I offered him £500 on the spot, but he ended up telling JM about it and he got just over £600 on one of his auctions about 6 months later.

 

Before JM got to list it, I put up a want for it on this site, unfortunately I had to be subtle in asking what I was asking for, as, at that point, only someone who actually had it at would know about it. (short of buying every loose copy from junk shops, boxes at venues, internet, the world etc. on the off chance. Which would be an expensive and impossible task.)

 

I must admit, since JM auctioned it, I assumed the "cat was out of the bag" so to speak, but it would appear knowledge of this 45 had escaped most people.

 

I have no idea who won that copy, but in responce to the "want" I put up prior to that, I did get one response with an offer of a poor condition one for either £35 or £65 (can't remember which) but was told that both sided were just about unplayable with background noise and multiple skips, and the A side label had been heavily overwritten with "Marlena Shaw" "Let's" and "Vocal", and credit's refering to Ramsey were obliterated.

 

I turned it down, but have proved to myself that copies are out there as a guarded enquiry did turn another copy, but those who own it are probably unaware of it, as it is not always a record people play. Dealers get 'em in, then move 'em on without ever turning on the deck.

 

Cheers

Mick

The winner was Martin Alsop of Nottingham and co-promoter of the Ibstock All Nighter.

He still has it.

[Dean Rudland]

Its the only issue ive ever seen but there are more knowledgeable people than myself,ive seen several demos and I have to say with the QOF issue being just like the Susie Thompson  Paper Tigers visually the demo does look a lot better.As for the demand on that song maybe not anymore I cant think of that many collectors these days (uk) and the ones I know have pretty much everything going if not a QOF issue

Much as I thought and thank you for the reply Gilly

[Mick Holdsworth]

It came from one of the London boys but cant remember who,just noticed the guy that bought it from me my dear friend Mick Holdsworth

 

Hello Gilly, hope you're well.

 

Was this the white issue of Queen Of Fools" ?  Yes, I did get one from you now I think of it - Supposed to be another colour label variation too (Pink ?) from a thread on here a couple of years ago. Never seen one in the flesh though, and I could be mistaken too.

 

Cheers

Mick

[Sceneman]

at that period soul was in the doldrums so few copies of this single were sold hence the big price .not many are around

[pogo paul]

Always rated "what's a matter baby" as her best track and that one's cheap as chips.

The Darrell Banks on London would be the one to have

[P6AKO]

I'd rate that as the hardest of all UK's.

Pete, Ben e king i cant break the news to myself....hand writing Atlantic Demo (Mick Smith)

[Pete S]

Pete, Ben e king i cant break the news to myself....hand writing Atlantic Demo (Mick Smith)

 

See previous page!

[Hill868]

Could well be, actually remember a mate buying a mint copy at a Peterborough record fair around 1990 for £1 !

[Guest Ivor Jones]

not in the UK it wasn't….Ian is talking about UK…..

 

Hello Steve……If its the plain White labelled UK test pressing of "Tired Of Being Your Fool" you've got which has hand written credits in thin red felt tip marker pen, then I too have one. Ive seen a couple of these around for sale over the years,both with the same writing on,so maybe its not that rare….? I can confirm that Ive also seen a UK Salsoul issue copy for sale too,[i'm 100 % on this Steve so it does exist and Ive seen it on more than one occasion too].I didn't buy it because I'd already got the UK demo and US issue….. Have a US issue on Goldmind too and  also  a mint spare US issue if anyones interested ?

Best, Ivor 

Edited May 4, 2014 by Ivor Jones

[dthedrug]

Might have the time on it as well ill dig it out sometime and check

 

Mick wrote his own credits on his first one though so was probably blank both sides, I've got a scan of it somewhere.

 HI ALL .... PETE that's Lynn's hand writing for sure. Mick's ain't that neat?  DAVE K

[Denbo]

Hello Gilly, hope you're well.

 

Was this the white issue of Queen Of Fools" ?  Yes, I did get one from you now I think of it - Supposed to be another colour label variation too (Pink ?) from a thread on here a couple of years ago. Never seen one in the flesh though, and I could be mistaken too.

 

Cheers

Mick

Hi Mick,

I think that "pink" variation you refer to is possibly just a white one that has aged to look pinkish. I have one or two other white demos that have aged to a pinkish colour.

Just a suggestion.

[Pete S]

There is a pink UK Hickory label variation, but BM isn't on it.