Volumes - Ain't Gonna Give You Up

[MrsWoodsrules]

What a killer track this is, got a spin at Lowton last Friday night, superb .

[jocko]

What a killer track this is, got a spin at Lowton last Friday night, superb .

 

Which allows me to neatly say that the other side is much better, not as traditional and dare I say it harder on the ear and feet but the side I played out towards the end of my stewardship of the disc (and the end of my dj career coincidentally!)

 

A hypothetical question, if this was found out to be a legit issue produced post the LP say mid to late 80's would people then stop valuing it so much, and indeed stop playing it? Indeed would people then play it off LP? Or as its legit would people still carry on regardless? 

 

So if you are going to answer that. remember I said legit so no boring boot or ovo discussions!  

[Guest Bearsy]

I found my vg(+) copy in Detroit in 1993

In a record shop Marc ?

[boba]

i know group collectors who bought this in the '70s. people have found beat up copies in detroit. i can't imagine who would have bootlegged it at what time and for whom and why they would have pressed like 7 copies. like they were planting a few copies as some sort of conspiracy to be discovered and discussed by northern soul collectors 40 years later.

[Raremusicdirect]

I wonder if it was scarce because it was released as (what may have been considered) the end of the label run in 1970 and it wasn't promoted much [they used an earlier recording].....

 

Some further recording come out on the label but a full 3 years later.................

 

Thoughts please..............

[jocko]

i know group collectors who bought this in the '70s. people have found beat up copies in detroit. i can't imagine who would have bootlegged it at what time and for whom and why they would have pressed like 7 copies. like they were planting a few copies as some sort of conspiracy to be discovered and discussed by northern soul collectors 40 years later.

 

Where are you getting the 7 copies from? There is significant double figure quantities, if not into the 100 copies in UK collections alone  I bet. Soul Bowl very rarely put 1 or 2 copy things on his front page. Although it would be nice if someone who knows Mr A well enough to ask did so, as I am currently gossiping and speculating, which is all good fun.

 

Interesting about the beat copies as most copies here in the 80's were brand spanking new. And most that come into sale seem in good nick. 

 

Thats why I asked about copies coming up earlier as from what I can remember UK dealers hadn't seen them, not that always means much pre internet and pre knowledge buying days. 

[boba]

the "7" was me being a smartass, I never tried to count copies of the record, i was making a point about the rarity, as i've only seen it for sale a few times. however, i didn't know that there were hundreds of copies in collections in the UK. I don't know why you would single this record out though, as the same story about rarity and john anderson getting the stock is true for hundreds of records.

 

my copy is a clean VG, definitely used and found fairly clean but i'm pretty sure found in the US.

[SLAMMINSOUL]

I sold my mint copies of The Volumes and The Oxford Nights on here privately last year for £1275.00.

I'm sad to say I just got tired of playing both.

Only time will tell I may live to regret that ....

Clint

[Sunnysoul]

Would be interesting to have Bob and RobbK's thoughts on this but if a record only made it as far as the "promotional" copy stage people in the US would tend to refer to that as being "unreleased" wouldn't they?  Whereas in the UK and elsewhere , collectors would say a promotional copy constituted an "actual" release. Perhaps those Solid Smoke liner notes should be read with this in mind.

Edited April 15, 2014 by sunnysoul

[boba]

Would be interesting to have Bob and RobbK's thoughts on this but if a record only made it as far as the "promotional" copy stage people in the US would tend to refer to that as being "unreleased" wouldn't they?  Whereas in the UK and elsewhere , collectors would say a promotional copy constituted an "actual" release. Perhaps those Solid Smoke liner notes should be read with this in mind.

 

also, as already pointed out, people are giving too much credit to artists or producers who remember little. there are some people with very sharp memories but they are in the minority. If you had a 40 year career, were old, and some random person just started asking you questions about when you were very young, do you think you would instantly remember? each of my interviews probably takes about 3-4 hours of previous discussion at least even with people with good memories. on top of that people have already pointed out mistakes in other solid smoke liner notes.

[Robbk]

Would be interesting to have Bob and RobbK's thoughts on this but if a record only made it as far as the "promotional" copy stage people in the US would tend to refer to that as being "unreleased" wouldn't they?  Whereas in the UK and elsewhere , collectors would say a promotional copy constituted an "actual" release. Perhaps those Solid Smoke liner notes should be read with this in mind.

I have seen a fair amount of different scans of it and then a couple copies in collections in The UK, and also at Anderson's (Soul Bowl).  I think they were all blue stock copies.  So, I'd guess that it was released to distributors and shops.  I wasn't really interested in the Soul Music coming out in 1980. so I MAY have seen it in shops in Detroit, and just ignored it.  But, I'd guess it WAS released, and just got no airplay and almost no sales.  They may have pressed 500, but a lot of them got melted back down.   I had thought there were about 35-40 original copies in UK collections, which is why I thought it may have also been booted.  But, IF there are 150+, I guess there'd have been no reason to boot it.  I had thought it was rarer than that.  But, there were a LOT of stored warehouse records sitting around about which I had no knowledge nor access, which later ended up in The UK.   So, like a fair amount of other records which I thought were extremely rare, this also had quantity turn up many years later.

[jocko]

the "7" was me being a smartass, I never tried to count copies of the record, i was making a point about the rarity, as i've only seen it for sale a few times. however, i didn't know that there were hundreds of copies in collections in the UK. I don't know why you would single this record out though, as the same story about rarity and john anderson getting the stock is true for hundreds of records.

 

my copy is a clean VG, definitely used and found fairly clean but i'm pretty sure found in the US.

 

It wouldn't make sense singling out any other record given the title of thread and the subject discussed would it?

 

I am highlighting the myths that were out there on its existence pre internet and looking for you experts to bust them, you already have done two with copies in states pre LP discovery and some turning up not in stone mint. So looks like a goodie.

 

I am totally speculating on the numbers, although proposing a couple of names who would know much better. Its definitely not single figures though, I knew more than that personally who bought it in 80's from the two dealers.  

[boba]

It wouldn't make sense singling out any other record given the title of thread and the subject discussed would it?

 

my only point was that there are tons of records that are extremely rare to find "in the field" but which exist in the UK as unplayed stock because of the work of john anderson and some others. so using the fact that almost all the copies are clean stock that exists in the UK as evidence of a bootleg isn't a good argument imo.

[Tlscapital]

Maybe for the wrong reasons, but I always was a bit weary about that Volumes on Karen. The look of the label, the typo and the way the record is pressed gave me the impression it was not an early 7T's press. The odd comes with that the Jimmy 'Soul' Clark 'I blew a good thing' shares the same overall design and fabric, but they are no match with their catalogue numbers. Ollie McLaughlin catalogue numbers were all over the place so that is that. Now I have never seen another Karen/Carla record with the same design and fabric as those two. They must be contemporary and another run from all the others Karen and Carla records. Could anyone confirm that the Jimmy 'Soul' Clark 'I blew a good thing' was a known record since the early or mid 7T's ?

[jocko]

my only point was that there are tons of records that are extremely rare to find "in the field" but which exist in the UK as unplayed stock because of the work of john anderson and some others. so using the fact that almost all the copies are clean stock that exists in the UK as evidence of a bootleg isn't a good argument imo.

 

I agree but dont think I was saying that. I was repeating a whole set of myths that put together had questioned its heritage pre internet and pre USA collectors opinions being available to us mere mortals, rather than just those UK dealers who used to monopolise the relationships, And re numbers again I repeat I am speculating and gossiping, I haven't tried to say I am doing anything else if you read closely, other than its not a single figure disc. I am posting some questions for the more informed, a couple of which you have very kindly answered with thanks, and for that I thank you kindly.

 

Have you been working in New York this week by any chance.

[Premium Stuff]

Maybe for the wrong reasons, but I always was a bit weary about that Volumes on Karen. The look of the label, the typo and the way the record is pressed gave me the impression it was not an early 7T's press. The odd comes with that the Jimmy 'Soul' Clark 'I blew a good thing' shares the same overall design and fabric, but they are no match with their catalogue numbers. Ollie McLaughlin catalogue numbers were all over the place so that is that. Now I have never seen another Karen/Carla record with the same design and fabric as those two. They must be contemporary and another run from all the others Karen and Carla records. Could anyone confirm that the Jimmy 'Soul' Clark 'I blew a good thing' was a known record since the early or mid 7T's ?

 

What's the typo please?  

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Tlscapital]

What's the typo please?  

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Like the font for the lettering on your computer.

 

Typography Served features top work in categories such as typeface design, lettering, illustrated typography, or any piece with a strong typographic treatment.

 

 

Like so  or so 

[Premium Stuff]

Like the font for the lettering on your computer.

 

Typography Served features top work in categories such as typeface design, lettering, illustrated typography, or any piece with a strong typographic treatment.

 

 

Like so Capture d’écran 2014-04-15 à 13.37.41.png or so Capture d’écran 2014-04-15 à 13.38.48.png

 

OK - thanks - thought you meant "typo" as in typographical/spelling error 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Soulhawk]

Could anyone confirm that the Jimmy 'Soul' Clark 'I blew a good thing' was a known record since the early or mid 7T's ?

 

I had a GM studio ten-inch acetate of 'I Blew a Good Thing' that was found with a bunch of other vintage Detroit acetates - Nine Mile Music / Invictus / HDH sessions etc

 

sold the acetate to Dave Thorley a couple years ago

 

the Volumes and JSC are obviously real - I live in Detroit and acquired both from vintage 'collections'

[Soulhawk]

and by 'vintage collections' I mean 'stacks of sleeveless records from someones attic'

 

[Tlscapital]

I had a GM studio ten-inch acetate of 'I Blew a Good Thing' that was found with a bunch of other vintage Detroit acetates - Nine Mile Music / Invictus / HDH sessions etc

 

sold the acetate to Dave Thorley a couple years ago

 

the Volumes and JSC are obviously real - I live in Detroit and acquired both from vintage 'collections'

OK, thanks for that and this then just confirms that I was wrong and to finalize my typo theory I managed to do a good quick but defo check and found that they used the same pressing plant;  AND so it is 1970 or 1971 or...

[Garethx]

Aside from all the technical and clerical questions I must just say how much I love this particular vintage of Detroit soul–personally much more than the Golden World type of sound.

 

Records like these two Karen 45s, the Jimmy Delphs version of "Am I losing You" and the Emanuel Laskey pictured above sound great now but probably would have been largely passed over by UK Northern Soul fans in the mid '70s as just collection-fillers.

[Robbk]

Maybe for the wrong reasons, but I always was a bit weary about that Volumes on Karen. The look of the label, the typo and the way the record is pressed gave me the impression it was not an early 7T's press. The odd comes with that the Jimmy 'Soul' Clark 'I blew a good thing' shares the same overall design and fabric, but they are no match with their catalogue numbers. Ollie McLaughlin catalogue numbers were all over the place so that is that. Now I have never seen another Karen/Carla record with the same design and fabric as those two. They must be contemporary and another run from all the others Karen and Carla records. Could anyone confirm that the Jimmy 'Soul' Clark 'I blew a good thing' was a known record since the early or mid 7T's ?

I agree.  I think McLaughlan's labels stopped operation by late 1968 or 1969 or so, and The Volumes and Jimmy Soul Clark were a "revival" of Karen in late 1970, or perhaps early 1971 for the Clark release.  He used a new pressing plant, which used a different printer for labels.  His catalog numbers often varied even during the same label run (that sometimes was related to use of a different pressing plant, (but not always).