General question for those more knowledgeable than I... What would be a reasonable value of one of these in an honest "good" condition?

Cheers

Does "good" condition mean very clean or does it mean "good" per goldmine or other grading scale, which is not that clean?

i reckon he means  in nice vg++ and above..about £150...maybe a tad more......beware the counterfeits tho

There's something else you've got to beware of.  Some copies are labelled correctly but play the B side on both sides.  I think these were actually done as bootlegs but they look ok.  The original was sold for £3 in the soul shops after someone (Kev R?) found the entire dead stock.  I never believed there was actually a bootleg of this apart from the mispressed one.  (As an aside, I bought a job lot of pop records off ebay last year, they weren't up to much, but there was, to my amazement, a copy of The Admirations on Paree in there.  The wrong press :-(

Hey. Thanks for the replies. By "good" I meant "plays with crackles, has surface scratches but plays through without jumps". S

Appreciate any comments... Thanks!

That sounds like the goldmine "good". I would say $40-$80 in that condition, maybe more if you put it on ebay and people  get into a bidding war.

  On 12/04/2014 at 10:52, Pete S said:

There's something else you've got to beware of.  Some copies are labelled correctly but play the B side on both sides.  I think these were actually done as bootlegs but they look ok.  The original was sold for £3 in the soul shops after someone (Kev R?) found the entire dead stock.  I never believed there was actually a bootleg of this apart from the mispressed one.  (As an aside, I bought a job lot of pop records off ebay last year, they weren't up to much, but there was, to my amazement, a copy of The Admirations on Paree in there.  The wrong press :-(

i had about a dozen copies once, only one was the good one, i kept it apart from the others which i think went in bulk to a seller with loads of other soulpack stuff, guess what happened when i played my good copy a few months later , doh

There's always this version of the Admirations "Heaven is in your arms". Though finding one isn't as easy....

Is there anything on the label/in the runout groove of the mispress that's different to the correct press? Or do you literally have to play it to see if it's the Admirations or not?

I haven't compared the matrix on mine to that of my friends copy.

The story I was told was that Andy Noble was digging around Wisconsin and found a box full of them, asked my friend if he knew the tune and then gave my friend a copy. I was led to believe that box held the only copies made.

 

I spent a few years listening to every copy of Alvin Cash "Diff'rent strokes..." until one day BOOM! The Admirations.

The Matrix on my copy reads "R(?) 3235" if anyone else has one to compare.

 

I'll ask my friend to look at his, but probably won't get an immediate reply.

as long as there's something printed in the deadwax, i'm sure that you don't have to play it to know. it's not that common that there would be nothing there at all.

  On 16/04/2014 at 23:48, boba said:

as long as there's something printed in the deadwax, i'm sure that you don't have to play it to know. it's not that common that there would be nothing there at all.

 

I have one of the B side same both sides here:

 

nothing in the run off at all except a few dimples and a scratched in 117 A and 117 B on the other side.  So marked as A and B sides but both play the wrong side.

 

Shall I put a photo up?  The label's different too.

Edited April 17, 201411 yr by Pete S

  On 17/04/2014 at 09:06, Pete S said:

I have one of the B side same both sides here:

 

nothing in the run off at all except a few dimples and a scratched in 117 A and 117 B on the other side.  So marked as A and B sides but both play the wrong side.

 

Shall I put a photo up?  The label's different too.

 

if the record says -A and -B and plays the same song, the one that plays the different song has to look different. even if the same things are written it's not written in the same way. so it might not be easy to tell the difference without knowing what to look for but i'm sure if you posted scans of the correct vs. not correct sides someone could memorize it.

  On 17/04/2014 at 20:52, boba said:

if the record says -A and -B and plays the same song, the one that plays the different song has to look different. even if the same things are written it's not written in the same way. so it might not be easy to tell the difference without knowing what to look for but i'm sure if you posted scans of the correct vs. not correct sides someone could memorize it.

 

Took these on the phone, sorry not great quality, NEITHER of these sides play Heaven Is In Your Arms, they both play the B side despite the matrixes being A and B

 

  

  On 17/04/2014 at 21:05, Pete S said:

Took these on the phone, sorry not great quality, NEITHER of these sides play Heaven Is In Your Arms, they both play the B side despite the matrixes being A and B

 

paree1.jpg   paree2.jpg

 

I believe you. I was saying that if you had good scans / photos of the deadwax of these and then a scan of the deadwax of "heaven is in your arms", you'd see a difference. The only time deadwax won't tell you info is if it's blank.

Pete,

labels look different to my original. It's hard for me to explain difference in english. I'll post a scan, that's easier. But what I noticed, run-out groove is about 14mm wide on the Heaven is in your Arms side. and about 10mm on the ballad side. Can you measure the run out groove on your copy?

  On 17/04/2014 at 21:08, boba said:

I believe you. I was saying that if you had good scans / photos of the deadwax of these and then a scan of the deadwax of "heaven is in your arms", you'd see a difference. The only time deadwax won't tell you info is if it's blank.

 

Oh right sorry, you mean photos of the deadwax in both versions...sorry, not got original any more...and some say not all of those are originals either

  On 17/04/2014 at 21:10, Benji said:

Pete,

labels look different to my original. It's hard for me to explain difference in english. I'll post a scan, that's easier. But what I noticed, run-out groove is about 14mm wide on the Heaven is in your Arms side. and about 10mm on the ballad side. Can you measure the run out groove on your copy?

 

12mm and 11mm respectively

Here's a scan of the Heaven side. As you can see paper is not as grainy as on Pete's scan. And it's different toward the middle. As said before I can't explain that in english. (I didn't bother to compare the label's colours as one is a scan and the other one is just a picture of the label)

 

 

  On 17/04/2014 at 21:12, Pete S said:

12mm and 11mm respectively

 

My figures were incorrect, I did it with a ruler where most of the scale was hardly readable. A different ruler says 10mm ballad side and 12mm on the uptempo side. Makes sense, Heaven is 2:40 and My admiration for you is 2:55

  On 17/04/2014 at 21:14, Benji said:

Here's a scan of the Heaven side. As you can see paper is not as grainy as on Pete's scan. And it's different toward the middle. As said before I can't explain that in english. (I didn't bother to compare the label's colours as one is a scan and the other one is just a picture of the label)

 

 

TEMP_14_04_17_01.jpg

 

There's another version of this without that dip in the middle

Is the other version the one w/out the address underneath "Paree records"?

  On 17/04/2014 at 21:51, Benji said:

Is the other version the one w/out the address underneath "Paree records"?

 

Yes it is.  I was never aware of a bootleg of this until John Manship said there was one.  I distinctly remember buying it from Pep's shop for £3 as an original, he had quantity, as did all the dealers, supplied from one find of old stock.  It killed the record dead after only a few weeks.  I can't remember 100% but I think the ones being sold were the ones with no address.  At that time, originals were always being found in quantity, John Bowie on Merben was another £3 sound available in huge quantities, Nate Evans on DPR, Ringleaders Baby What Has happened - I often used to get people selling me collections in the 2000's with one of these in which they had down as pressings because they were sold so cheaply.

So the one I now have in my possession doesn't have the address printed underneath Paree, does have the right tracks printed and pressed on each side and in the runoff it has 117B on the B side (which is Heaven is in your arms) and 117A on the A side. Both sides also have a strange symbol scratched in the runoff after the 117A/B, which looks like an upper case B with another smaller B attached to the top of it at a 90 degree leftward rotation. I tried to take a picture of it but it's really difficult to capture in a way that can be interpreted.

Looking at the condition of this record, and that it was sourced directly from Chicago (where I live) I have good reason to believe it's original. Frankly its too trashed to be a pressing (unless I'm misunderstanding the descriptions of pressings given here).

The above is not meant to question anything written by others and it only intended to hopefully help in some way to solving the mystery!

i definitely think that there are some instances where overseas collectors have labeled certain things bootlegs where they were really alternate pressings (e.g. due to demand) done around the time of release.

  On 23/04/2014 at 06:07, boba said:

i definitely think that there are some instances where overseas collectors have labeled certain things bootlegs where they were really alternate pressings (e.g. due to demand) done around the time of release.

Agreed !