Roughly Valuing A Collection

[Denbo]

If you had say 10,000 Soul / Northern Soul / R&B / records, of a widely varying value, what would you very roughly value the total collection at?
For example, would you average out the value of each record at say £10, making the collection valued at £100,000?

What average value would you use per record?

 

[Guest Bearsy]

To get an average you have to add up all your values individually then divide by total of records. Obviously I'm not being clever as you would know that but if you have no idea of total value then I can't see how you can get an average.  Personally I would take me time and work out an over all value then go from their ....

[Guest randy]

Selling a  bulk collection without the records being listed individually in the current financial cIimate I think you would be lucky to get £1 per record may be only 50p. I can not think off any record dealer would hand over £10,000 or more blindly.

 

As Bearsy pointed out you would be better listing the records. I would recoemend that you would be better off pulling out the better records and selling them individually or in smaller soul packs and then sell the remaining records as a bulk deal.

 

If you are valuing the records for insurance purposes you have to have the records listed and appraised

[TOAD]

I had to sell my mates collection so i asked a dealer to price them up realistically and he gave me a minimum and maximum price per 45 based on them being mintish.

[Nils]

if you got 10k for it you should be lucky....

[Denbo]

Okay? Interesting responses. Keep them coming please.

Obviously, I agree that to get an accurate average, you'd have to do what Bearsy said.

I was just wondering what other people thought. A consensus of opinion if you like.

[Soulstu]

Surely by doing what Bearsy says you get your total anyway! 

[Denbo]

I know SoulStu but I need a figure quick and I haven't got time to do it the hard way.

I've always meant to do the valuation properly but it's like everyone else, haven't got time.

I guess I'll have to wait until I retire to have the time to do it.

[Frankie Crocker]

An interesting question but the answer depends on the purpose of the valuation and how mint the records are. If you are planning to sell the collection, you would do well to get 60% of the valuation whereas an insurance appraisal would more flexible according to the coverage you wanted for the premium paid. I would do as Bearsy said and price them up individually according to condition but if they are all mint or VG++ then go with the book price. Alternatively, just list the most valuable sounds say above £100 and value this part of the collection more precisely. Next, estimate how many records fall into categories such as cheap (£10-20), pricier (£25-50), valuable (£60-90) and do a ball-park calculation for each category. If thinking of selling, the collection can then be treated as a set of smaller collections with different re-sale conditions applying. Hope this helps.

[Guest Gogs]

Is the problem that you have is that it would take such a long time to listen to them all and grade them individually?

[dthedrug]

 HI ALL,,, My life it's ALL FOOLS DAY TOMORROW AIN'T IT??.  The very fact you are asking this question, tells me you ain''t got that many to sell and that you have not stated how many US or UK, how many are issues or demo, 60ts 7ts 8ts modern crossover funk R&B popular soul top 100 Motown  northern soul, original / northern dancers bootlegs pressings , modern pressings limited for sale to people who cant tell what's up or down but expects others to tell while he goes to bed or up the pub,,

I will give you £3k for em?  pm me  DAVE K

[Guest penny]

Considering a good soul dj's playbox could be worth 30 grand +, the valuation of a collection is impossible without knowing the quality of the best records in it.

if it's got 10 biggies in it, 10 grand is a bargain, if it's been picked through a few times and the cream sold off, ten grand could be a lot.

for all we know it could be 10,000 80s ex mobile dj pop 45s, especially if you're selling them Denbo ;-).

Edited March 30, 2014 by penny

[Denbo]

Considering a good soul dj's playbox could be worth 30 grand +, the valuation of a collection is impossible without knowing the quality of the best records in it.

if it's got 10 biggies in it, 10 grand is a bargain, if it's been picked through a few times and the cream sold off, ten grand could be a lot.

for all we know it could be 10,000 80s ex mobile dj pop 45s, especially if you're selling them Denbo ;-).

Hee hee, you little tinker penny

[MrsWoodsrules]

Remember book price & real life price are nothing like, more like 1/4 of book price is realistic to aim for, book prices are for mint & retail.

Unless its something special that is.

[Denbo]

 HI ALL,,, My life it's ALL FOOLS DAY TOMORROW AIN'T IT??.  The very fact you are asking this question, tells me you ain''t got that many to sell and that you have not stated how many US or UK, how many are issues or demo, 60ts 7ts 8ts modern crossover funk R&B popular soul top 100 Motown  northern soul, original / northern dancers bootlegs pressings , modern pressings limited for sale to people who cant tell what's up or down but expects others to tell while he goes to bed or up the pub,,

I will give you £3k for em?  pm me  DAVE K

Thanks for the offer Dave but I'm not selling them, just asking how I can 'very roughly' value them for the sake of my Will, which I've finally found time to write.

 

However, to answer your question;

 

60% British, 40% American imports.

Good collection of British, including a large selection of Twisted Wheel originals, all the first 100 TMGs, every black Chess, lots of Stateside, London, Liberty, Columbia, Parlophone, Vocalion, HMV, UA, CBS, etc, etc, many Demos amidst them all.

Plenty of rare R&B and a few rare Northern.

Also includes about 400 British labelled Lps from the 60s.

I don't suppose the figure for my Will needs to be that accurate. Does it?

That accuracy will come to matter if and when I ever made an insurance claim on them. Fingers crossed I never do.

I haven't got time to go through them all, 70% of them are at my Mum's house, and condition would have to be considered, although most are excellent.

Does any of this help towards a rough estimate?

[Frankie Crocker]

Ah ha, the asset transfer bequest scenario. Not sure you need to value the collection at all. Better the value is as low as possible to avoid inheritance tax. Better still, gift the collection to the missus seven years or more before you die to avoid death duties. Ultimately, the collection is worth what your family can sell it for after you have passed on - ideally, you would price the items up individually ahead of time, particularly the most valuable, as these are more likely to realise a higher proportion of their notional worth. Records sold in a hurry realise lower prices - always best to sell patiently in well planned lots to achieve optimal revenue.

[Timemarcheson]

Thanks for the offer Dave but I'm not selling them, just asking how I can 'very roughly' value them for the sake of my Will, which I've finally found time to write.

 

However, to answer your question;

 

60% British, 40% American imports.

Good collection of British, including a large selection of Twisted Wheel originals, all the first 100 TMGs, every black Chess, lots of Stateside, London, Liberty, Columbia, Parlophone, Vocalion, HMV, UA, CBS, etc, etc, many Demos amidst them all.

Plenty of rare R&B and a few rare Northern.

Also includes about 400 British labelled Lps from the 60s.

I don't suppose the figure for my Will needs to be that accurate. Does it?

That accuracy will come to matter if and when I ever made an insurance claim on them. Fingers crossed I never do.

I haven't got time to go through them all, 70% of them are at my Mum's house, and condition would have to be considered, although most are excellent.

Does any of this help towards a rough estimate?

[Labeat]

Sort the wheat from the Chaff, have the wheat listed (estimate 3,000) and valued by half a dozen of your closest "Soul Mates", then publisise.... set sale!

The Chaff, well, i'm sure you wouldn't have 10,000 Gems, so 7,000..... be bold and put a reasonable job lot price on, get rid, get shut, after all, the country

is awash with unwanted vinyl.

 

This may sound harsh, but afterall it's a hypothetical task!

[Timemarcheson]

 

 

I made an insurance claim in 1998 following a serious flood which submerged about 1500 records of varying value (they were destroyed because of the sewage/health risk). They were not catalogued or priced in any way although I did have some paperwork for some purchases. Fortunately I had the internet and I managed to trace about 10% of them and used this to submit an insurance claim. The grossing up of the 10% that I valued came to £15k, I had to settle for about half that. My advice is do the work as others have suggested. I believe that the records were worth  over £20k but had no way of proving it. I have never replaced the vast majority of them.

Frank

[Denbo]

Ah ha, the asset transfer bequest scenario. Not sure you need to value the collection at all. Better the value is as low as possible to avoid inheritance tax. Better still, gift the collection to the missus seven years or more before you die to avoid death duties. Ultimately, the collection is worth what your family can sell it for after you have passed on - ideally, you would price the items up individually ahead of time, particularly the most valuable, as these are more likely to realise a higher proportion of their notional worth. Records sold in a hurry realise lower prices - always best to sell patiently in well planned lots to achieve optimal revenue.

Thanks Frankie. Does that go for ISAs etc as well, re avoiding inheritance tax?

[TOAD]

After selling the collection a few years later it was impossible to sell some and the price of the ones i had sold went up a lot!!!!

[Labeat]

Where is the logic in building up a 10,000 strong collection and (probably) never playing 90% of them more than twice!

It's a bit like Mr's Marcos having 5,000 pairs of shoes.... (or thereabouts )

[TOAD]

There is no logic it's called record collecting.

[Denbo]

Where is the logic in building up a 10,000 strong collection and (probably) never playing 90% of them more than twice!

It's a bit like Mr's Marcos having 5,000 pairs of shoes.... (or thereabouts )

If you had to ask that question then you would never understand the explanation.

[Frankie Crocker]

Thanks Frankie. Does that go for ISAs etc as well, re avoiding inheritance tax?

Not sure re all the fine details but you can gift money up to a certain limit annually and avoid capital transfer tax. You can also buy a Will Form and complete it yourself without a solicitor being involved hence saving money to spend on more records...

[dthedrug]

 HI ALL    IT'S A SHAME THESE 1000 45s, was just a ice breaker, a potted introduction to the basic fundamental things to know if your mate drops down dead & you seek the old school soul brother instinct that we had in all of us back in 69, the opportunity  to empty the room of the rarest in the collection, it's almost the perfect crime, as his misses has not got a clue of all but 20 records she calls her records??? 

• While I write this pile of crap, watching the SOCCER,  2 PEOPLE COME TO MIND, 1st Andy Spencer, Andy was a good guy who lived in NORTHHAMPTON ? last time I saw Andy was in 1985 he had moved to the outskirts of BRUM, & WAS SELLING HIS COLLECTION? the reason was he was certain that the records would be stolen, a real paranormal anxiety attack that he could not get through, shame. 2nd is a good friend who passed away in 1980 and had his collection plundered GOD BLESS YOU NEV,
• Trying to value records in 2014 of a typical collection 5000 plus, & being realistic although if it was my records I would get my investment back it is because I have been lucky over the years and not buying any in demand records, they are the ones you sell, you have to be ahead of the game and sacrifice your best sounds to buy 2 or 3 unknown's that you hope go big then you can wave it in front of the person you sold you best record to sell him the latest must have for cash and your record back, this is the only way to build a collection, or you could become a DJ & your 350 record box is your collection  my collection will  be left for Mick S to sell, as that is the best way also there are many records that I value but would not sell easy, who wants all the red Atlantics Statesides CBSs some of them yes, well I don't know if this posting makes any sense?  The SOCCER has ended  Jonson Paint final GULP!DAVE K K ,

Edited March 30, 2014 by dthedrug

[Cover-up]

It's a strange concept, the idea of writing records into a will. If, for example, you went with your first suggestion and your collection is worth £100,000 and genuinely is in the year 2014. Would you need to keep re-valuing this at routine intervals? No idea how old you are, but you might live to be a hundred and in the year 2064 that collection might be worth... double that? Or possibly nothing at all, except to chains of novelty 1960s pubs which put them on their walls, since they're now over a hundred year old curiosities which people find strangely charming, since they now have the entire history of recorded sound at their fingertips on their watch.

 

And if the figure of £100,000 is the true value, if your dependants needed to realise this in a hurry, then selling to a dealer they'd be getting maybe 40% of the value. And if that's the case, does this mean the collection is actually really worth £40,000? And only really worth £100,000 IF someone took it on as a full time job for five years? All this talk of "split it into soul packs, sell the individual bits at top prices" etc. How many relatives could honestly be arsed becoming part time record dealers to maximise their inheritance? It's not like having your money tied up in gold where one click and the investment becomes cold hard cash...

 

I'm probably in a similar situation, since my collection will go to my missus. I'm sure she'd be happy to sell one or two £100 records a week, but i do worry about leaving a pile of useless garbage for the family to sift through. And so, most likely, won't be putting any estimated value in a will...

[Labeat]

Thanks for the offer Dave but I'm not selling them, just asking how I can 'very roughly' value them for the sake of my Will, which I've finally found time to write.

 

However, to answer your question;

 

60% British, 40% American imports.

Good collection of British, including a large selection of Twisted Wheel originals, all the first 100 TMGs, every black Chess, lots of Stateside, London, Liberty, Columbia, Parlophone, Vocalion, HMV, UA, CBS, etc, etc, many Demos amidst them all.

Plenty of rare R&B and a few rare Northern.

Also includes about 400 British labelled Lps from the 60s.

I don't suppose the figure for my Will needs to be that accurate. Does it?

That accuracy will come to matter if and when I ever made an insurance claim on them. Fingers crossed I never do.

I haven't got time to go through them all, 70% of them are at my Mum's house, and condition would have to be considered, although most are excellent.

Does any of this help towards a rough estimate?

 

So Denbo, have you not got a trusted friend to do the job for you, even if you tipped him £100

[Steve Foran]

Just to correct a statement made. On death ALL transfers after death between husband and wife are free from TAX. If you die, they become the property of your wife. An ISA is an individual savings account. This becomes your wifes with no tax liability. The ISA will however lose ANY future tax free status.

 

You can gift items of ANY value and these will become free from tax after 7 years. For instance you could give me £20k, record it and no tax is due AFTER 7 years. This is Inheritance tax. You can also gift £3000 per year AND record it, this is also Tax Free.

 

Hope that helps.

[Denbo]

Just to correct a statement made. On death ALL transfers after death between husband and wife are free from TAX. If you die, they become the property of your wife. An ISA is an individual savings account. This becomes your wifes with no tax liability. The ISA will however lose ANY future tax free status.

 

You can gift items of ANY value and these will become free from tax after 7 years. For instance you could give me £20k, record it and no tax is due AFTER 7 years. This is Inheritance tax. You can also gift £3000 per year AND record it, this is also Tax Free.

 

Hope that helps.

It does. Thanks.

[Denbo]

So Denbo, have you not got a trusted friend to do the job for you, even if you tipped him £100

I do have trusted friends to do it for me if I were to ask but to be honest, I'd rather do it myself . . . . . in fact, I've just made a start, this morning. God help me!!!

[Labeat]

I do have trusted friends to do it for me if I were to ask but to be honest, I'd rather do it myself . . . . . in fact, I've just made a start, this morning. God help me!!!

 

Bring em all to Wickersley nr Rotherham (just off M18) tonight, it's a buy/sell/trade/swap.... or just yourself to get any info

(just forget name of pub it's at.... Coach&Horses is it?)

[Denbo]

Bring em all to Wickersley nr Rotherham (just off M18) tonight, it's a buy/sell/trade/swap.... or just yourself to get any info

(just forget name of pub it's at.... Coach&Horses is it?)

Can't make that. But is that being organised by Adey Pierce?

[Labeat]

Can't make that. But is that being organised by Adey Pierce?

Correct

[Chatty]

Seems the best way to avoid this minefield is to outlive this rare soul collecting fad until all old vinyl is used for melting down and filling in the potholes.    

[25miles]

Bring em all to Wickersley nr Rotherham (just off M18) tonight, it's a buy/sell/trade/swap.... or just yourself to get any info

(just forget name of pub it's at.... Coach&Horses is it?)

FINK U MEAN.................THREE HORSE SHOES???

[Labeat]

FINK U MEAN.................THREE HORSE SHOES???

 

Ta mate, i knew it wa summat to do wi nags

[boba]

Another issue nobody has mentioned is that if you have a large enough collection, it strongly limits who even has the money to buy the collection as a whole. Even if you have 10,000 quality records, you're still probably not going to find a random rich person who will buy it straight out for their own collecting purposes. I was thinking about this the other day -- has anybody ever established themselves so much that they were able to sell the "john doe collection" to someone? I think John Tefteller plans to do that at some point and he's spent 40+ years hyping up his collection and expertise in order to do so. That dude Paul Mahwinney spent years trying to establish his (crappy random) collection as "the worlds greatest collection", had tons of media coverage, and still couldn't get a random sucker with too much money to believe the hype and just buy it.

 

That leaves a bunch of dealers, and you can probably count on one hand the number of dealers who even have the money to drop on a large collection. And they would be breaking it up so they would really only value the expensive records they could move more quickly and then have tons of cheap records that would take many many years to sell.

 

I have a large, pretty focused collection, and would like to think that it would be recognized as such and bought as a collection for what it is, but that's probably not the reality. The saddest thing is seeing some of the old doowop collectors with large collections die and seeing their records sold for pennies and picked over by vultures.

 

Unrelated, Dennis I met your friend John in Chicago a couple of days ago.