Bad Buyer! Beware

[SHEFFSOUL]

After a recent bad experience with a buyer ive decided to name and shame after well known and respected dealer encouraged me to do so.A week or so ago i advertised a bunch of records here on soul-source. A reply came with 'whats your best price' (on one 45), i said as advertised as i'd seen it for twice the price. Second reply ' i know its cheeky, but will you inc post?', No i countered its a great copy plays superb. 'ok i'll have it.Money rcvd by paypal and 45 sent.End of story i thought. Wrong, few days later a new message ' its got a 10mm crack, pls advise'. My suspicions aroused i suggested to return it.At no point did he say where the crack was, or if the 45 played or skipped or any further info. The 45 arrived back today..and guess what? NO CRACK. Ive inspected the disc thoroughly under strong light..still no crack. ive refunded the buyer inc his return postage.i dont sell records often thru soul-source and this is one of the reasons why (not soul-source fault) so ive decided to name the buyer hoping this will alert other sellers and deter scammers.its not an uncommon thing which is why i'm naming..

 

Buyers name Ciro Affronti, from Kettering..on SS as big-c

 

 

 

[Pete S]

This is why I stopped selling on Ebay - people trying it on all the time - well done for coming on and saying so.

[Carty]

Ok,   First of all ,   the fact that he offered you a lower price and then tried to get the postage free does not make him a bad buyer in my book, he is a Haggler . nowt wrong with that is there? you have the right to say no ( like you did )and if you are not up for this kind of stuff , you could advertise as No offers !                                                                                                                                                                        S econdly, he said there was a crack in it and when he sent it back there was no crack . So he has returned the item intact.   Was it the record you sent him ? the exact same copy ? if so , wheres the scam , ? what has he made out of that ?      if he had sent you a different copy back or a different copy with a crack in it then fair enough , i,m with you, but in this instance , i really dont feel the guy deserves Naming and shaming.                                                                                                                                            B.T.W . I have no idea who the guy is so am not writing this as a friend or associate .

[Dobber]

these things are infuriating...but it really is the way it goes...just gotta wipe your mouth and get on with it!

 

2 in 10 sales will goe tits up im afraid!

 

but i wouldnt bother naming and shaming unless it was real serious,this guy has just tried his luck,but to no end!

[SHEFFSOUL]

agree that he has the right to haggle..but he claimed it was cracked..( a half inch crack would be pretty noticeable)..which it isnt..so, to be specific it was an attempted scam..if i had offered the disc at discount due to 'damage' then thats a scam..because the 45  clearly wasnt/isnt cracked or damaged.i think he tried it on and came unstuck..thats my point..hes gained nothing really..and ive lost 2 x postage ( no big deal) and hes wasted my time..i cant see why you can't see the unfairness here..he claimed it was cracked..by quite a margin..if he'd have said sorry but its not in the condition i expected fair enough..but he's lied..simple...i stand by my naming and think its time to stop this kind of behaviour..

[SHEFFSOUL]

these things are infuriating...but it really is the way it goes...just gotta wipe your mouth and get on with it!

 

2 in 10 sales will goe tits up im afraid!

 

but i wouldnt bother naming and shaming unless it was real serious,this guy has just tried his luck,but to no end!

 

these things are infuriating...but it really is the way it goes...just gotta wipe your mouth and get on with it!

 

2 in 10 sales will goe tits up im afraid!

 

but i wouldnt bother naming and shaming unless it was real serious,this guy has just tried his luck,but to no end!

 

agree..but its the principle..he'll think twice before he tries it again...

[Godzilla]

 

2 in 10 sales will goe tits up im afraid!

 

 

 

Where's that statistic from? Seems a tad exaggerated and doesn't match with my experience.

[Jnixon]

ill pre qualify this by saying i dont know the buyer nor seller but tries what exactly? 

 

to be fair there is a system for leaving feedback on here already, so I dont get why this thread is necessary. 

 

so unless im missing something all thats happened here is a 'respeceted dealer' has got you to trash somebody on this site without them having to dirty their hands.

[Dobber]

Where's that statistic from? Seems a tad exaggerated and doesn't match with my experience.

mainly ebay!...the odd few either want partial refund,or to do some sort of deal,or just dont pay for the record at all,i get all these scenarios in approx 2 in 10.

[SHEFFSOUL]

ill pre qualify this by saying i dont know the buyer nor seller but tries what exactly? 

 

to be fair there is a system for leaving feedback on here already, so I dont get why this thread is necessary. 

 

so unless im missing something all thats happened here is a 'respeceted dealer' has got you to trash somebody on this site without them having to dirty their hands.

 

the thing you are missing is that the buyer lied about the condition of the record he recieved..this is not about a difference of opinion in the condition ( for example his VG+ versus my VG+) its a blatant lie in an attempt (in my opinion) to drive the price down..its similar to saying you never recieved it..its a lie..and think that unless this practice is exposed it will happen again..

[John Benson]

Have you contacted him and asked about the 'crack', where it's supposed to be?

I guess you would have done, but you haven't mentioned if you got a reply about it.

 

It does seem odd that someone would go to that trouble to return a record, unless he changed his mind after buying it perhaps?

[SHEFFSOUL]

Have you contacted him and asked about the 'crack', where it's supposed to be?

I guess you would have done, but you haven't mentioned if you got a reply about it.

 

It does seem odd that someone would go to that trouble to return a record, unless he changed his mind after buying it perhaps?

 

Have you contacted him and asked about the 'crack', where it's supposed to be?

I guess you would have done, but you haven't mentioned if you got a reply about it.

 

It does seem odd that someone would go to that trouble to return a record, unless he changed his mind after buying it perhaps?

 

tbh..i thought i'd easily find it..now, in the past ive received records that were damaged..and ive replied with a photo of the damage asking shall i return or will you replace/whatever..

[Mark Bicknell]

Instead of all this if you knew the record was good then you should have called his bluff and refused to take it back.

[SHEFFSOUL]

Instead of all this if you knew the record was good then you should have called his bluff and refused to take it back.

 

that doesnt make sense..i assumed it had been damaged in transit..i suggested he return it and i'd try to claim through the PO...he even had the cheek to say if i needed him to confirm damage to the PO he would do..

[Jordirip]

I wouldn't have done that Mark, he could have filed a Paypal dispute and he would have got his money back. So he would have got the record and the money.

 

I think the fact that you got your record back in untainted condition shows that at least the guy didn't deliberately crack it after you'd asked for it to be sent back. I know you've gone to the hassle of selling, boxing, posting etc. but at least you are where you started and not in a situation where you've been conned out of hundreds of dollars and lost the records, like some people have.

 

I've never had anyone try and con me or had a sale go tits up properly, a couple of people trying to squeeze as much as they can out of me but nothing bad.

[Godzilla]

mainly ebay!...the odd few either want partial refund,or to do some sort of deal,or just dont pay for the record at all,i get all these scenarios in approx 2 in 10.

 

Really? Sorry you've had such bad luck then.

[Carty]

Oh ok . so he tried to get  a further  reduction in price once he had recieved it by saying it was cracked ? then once you asked him to return it there was no crack. you didnt mention this in the original post .

[Jnixon]

the thing you are missing is that the buyer lied about the condition of the record he recieved..this is not about a difference of opinion in the condition ( for example his VG+ versus my VG+) its a blatant lie in an attempt (in my opinion) to drive the price down..its similar to saying you never recieved it..its a lie..and think that unless this practice is exposed it will happen again..

 

so you got your money back and you leave feedback on the system for feedback.

[Guest]

Happened to me on Ebay a while back, buyer said the 45 was cracked so I refunded, got the record back but there was no crack. 

I thought strange, never entered my head that he may have been trying it on......until now.

[SHEFFSOUL]

I wouldn't have done that Mark, he could have filed a Paypal dispute and he would have got his money back. So he would have got the record and the money.

 

I think the fact that you got your record back in untainted condition shows that at least the guy didn't deliberately crack it after you'd asked for it to be sent back. I know you've gone to the hassle of selling, boxing, posting etc. but at least you are where you started and not in a situation where you've been conned out of hundreds of dollars and lost the records, like some people have.

 

I've never had anyone try and con me or had a sale go tits up properly, a couple of people trying to squeeze as much as they can out of me but nothing bad.

 

 

i did consider it might arrive ( damaged) that i'd completely missed it even after cleaning and test playing it..so i suggested to the buyer that he return it..and i'd contact the PO about claiming for the damage.Which i wouldve done and also would have been guided by the PO as to how the damage happened.The record arrived back ( you can draw your own conclusion) in the same condition  as it went out..

[Pete S]

ill pre qualify this by saying i dont know the buyer nor seller but tries what exactly? 

 

to be fair there is a system for leaving feedback on here already, so I dont get why this thread is necessary. 

 

so unless im missing something all thats happened here is a 'respeceted dealer' has got you to trash somebody on this site without them having to dirty their hands.

 

No. If he's talking about me. he asked for some advice, he sold the record, he was the one who the attempted con was being performed on, he asked me what I'd do and I said I would ask for the record back and refund all of the money, and whatever you do, don't give a partial refund.  So you are missing something here.  

[Jnixon]

No. If he's talking about me. he asked for some advice, he sold the record, he was the one who the attempted con was being performed on, he asked me what I'd do and I said I would ask for the record back and refund all of the money, and whatever you do, don't give a partial refund.  So you are missing something here.  

 

 

fair enough. maybe i just dont see its as a big issue. got the tune back, its not cracked, one less dick to deal with in the world. leave feedback so others here know. 

[Pete S]

fair enough. maybe i just dont see its as a big issue. got the tune back, its not cracked, one less dick to deal with in the world. leave feedback so others here know. 

 

No but the guy said it was cracked to try and get money off, when there was nothing wrong with it.  That's fraud in my book.  It just happened one too many times on ebay for me so I stopped selling on there.  Some buyers on here make me laugh, always trying to get free postage or money off, I wonder if they ask John Manship to give them 10% off or free postage, cos after all, it doesn't cost anything to post records.  I bet they don't.  I had someone on here bragging about paying thousands for a record then trying to get £10 off a record I was selling for £40.

[SHEFFSOUL]

fair enough. maybe i just dont see its as a big issue. got the tune back, its not cracked, one less dick to deal with in the world. leave feedback so others here know. 

 

fair enough. maybe i just dont see its as a big issue. got the tune back, its not cracked, one less dick to deal with in the world. leave feedback so others here know. 

 

 

yes i got the tune back.. but its still a lie..dishonest..and for me that excludes the feedback system..ive exposed a dishonest buyer who lied about the condition of a 45..

[Sjclement]

This guy's still got 100% feedback! whats the use of having a system if you don't use it?

[Chatty]

Well "big c" according to your profile you're on line now, a chance to defend yourself?

[SHEFFSOUL]

This guy's still got 100% feedback! whats the use of having a system if you don't use it?

 

not anymore!

[Mark Bicknell]

that doesnt make sense..i assumed it had been damaged in transit..i suggested he return it and i'd try to claim through the PO...he even had the cheek to say if i needed him to confirm damage to the PO he wouok

ok

[Frankie Crocker]

Big C? Time waster. Chancer. Attempted fraud but rumbled through stupidity. Had the decency not to crack the record deliberately. No wonder honest dealers/sellers lose faith in a business where transactions should be fairly straightforward most of the time.

[Guest penny]

I agree that he's right to name and shame extra to the feedback system as this seems to be the latest scam popular amongst scrounging chancers. Popular with european ebay users..

they complain about condition in some way - often sellers offer a discount for an easy life in which case they win, if seller asks to return they do and nothing lost, or sometimes keep it, again nothing lost.

some people live like this - squeezing little margins where they can at others' expense.

No need to enable them further by protecting their identities.

I

[Labeat]

20 odd years ago i paid £40 for a Satisfactions issue. The cardboard package was perfect but the disc was cracked

from edge to run-out, i just couldn't be bothered with the hassle (from an established dealer) so lumped it and kept it.

Only last year a friend knowingly bought it off me similar price.... happy both ways

[boba]

I'm completely lost here. If he claimed it was cracked to try to get a discount and didn't get a discount, why would he waste his money returning a record that wasn't cracked? he's out money too. you're both out postage. he returned the record you sent him. what is the scam? because if there is a scam, it's a pretty crappy one, a scam to waste his own time and money?

[Guest Dave Ward]

Never been a serious record collector, but I'd sometimes take a 25 count box of stuff I wanted to shift into the record bar at 'nighters, Soon learned about people who would buy a record from me and return it 10 minutes later, cracked for money back. Soon learned to tell the buyer to check it, and advise there would be no refund afterwards. It was usually buyers who paid your price, then asked around and were told they'd paid too much. Don't get this though, if it is a scam there doesn't appear to be a winner. Unless it's so rare that he's pressed it a la Simon Soussan ?

[SHEFFSOUL]

Never been a serious record collector, but I'd sometimes take a 25 count box of stuff I wanted to shift into the record bar at 'nighters, Soon learned about people who would buy a record from me and return it 10 minutes later, cracked for money back. Soon learned to tell the buyer to check it, and advise there would be no refund afterwards. It was usually buyers who paid your price, then asked around and were told they'd paid too much. Don't get this though, if it is a scam there doesn't appear to be a winner. Unless it's so rare that he's pressed it a la Simon Soussan ?

 

Never been a serious record collector, but I'd sometimes take a 25 count box of stuff I wanted to shift into the record bar at 'nighters, Soon learned about people who would buy a record from me and return it 10 minutes later, cracked for money back. Soon learned to tell the buyer to check it, and advise there would be no refund afterwards. It was usually buyers who paid your price, then asked around and were told they'd paid too much. Don't get this though, if it is a scam there doesn't appear to be a winner. Unless it's so rare that he's pressed it a la Simon Soussan ?

 

 

ok..it doesnt appear that there is a winner..certainly not me..as i called the buyers 'bluff' he then faced a dilema, should he keep the uncracked record and swallow his failed attempt to force a discount or return for full refund? He chose the latter. As you say he may have thought he paid too much (doubtful) or simply changed his mind..or another reason/whatever..to fabricate a situation to try and cover his tracks is the fraud..and ive made that clear..

[Guest gfarrington]

I'm completely lost here. If he claimed it was cracked to try to get a discount and didn't get a discount, why would he waste his money returning a record that wasn't cracked? he's out money too. you're both out postage. he returned the record you sent him. what is the scam? because if there is a scam, it's a pretty crappy one, a scam to waste his own time and money?

the way i read it , was the seller refunded postage costs to have the 45 returned , so the buyer wasnt out of pocket in any way, the seller was , as someone said at least he had not cracked the record, to prove a point, btw i dont personally know either party

[Guest gfarrington]

Never been a serious record collector, but I'd sometimes take a 25 count box of stuff I wanted to shift into the record bar at 'nighters, Soon learned about people who would buy a record from me and return it 10 minutes later, cracked for money back. Soon learned to tell the buyer to check it, and advise there would be no refund afterwards. It was usually buyers who paid your price, then asked around and were told they'd paid too much. Don't get this though, if it is a scam there doesn't appear to be a winner. Unless it's so rare that he's pressed it a la Simon Soussan ?

happened to me , but when we next met , (rather than ten mins later), 

[Ian Seaman]

maybe he found or was offered another copy cheaper ?? hence the return ??

[SHEFFSOUL]

maybe he found or was offered another copy cheaper ?? hence the return ??

 

maybe he found or was offered another copy cheaper ?? hence the return ??

 

who knows..i refunded all his costs..( i'm out two way postage)..and if he'd said look ive changed my mind cos i found it cheaper fair enough..but to LIE?...

[boba]

sorry this happened to you. i didn't think of the "found it cheaper" explanation.

[Pete Eccles]

who knows..i refunded all his costs..( i'm out two way postage)..and if he'd said look ive changed my mind cos i found it cheaper fair enough..but to LIE?...

 

 

Fair enough? Once it's bought and paid for it's his, if he finds one cheaper after that point then tough luck, such is life, at what point does it not become 'fair enough'? A week, a year,........?

[Labeat]

big-c... Ciro, it would be good if you were to come on here and give your side of things, too much speculation for my liking

[Jnixon]

maybe he found or was offered another copy cheaper ?? hence the return ??

 

probably the most sensible post in here. 

[Sunnysoul]

Regarding the "crack".

 

If the record is styrene perhaps the buyer was referring to the styrene "join" which we've discussed on Soul Source a number of times over the years.

 

Many insist that the join is in fact a complete crack in the record ... and just as many say the opposite, that the join is a natural part of the styrene record making process.

[Pete S]

Regarding the "crack".

 

If the record is styrene perhaps the buyer was referring to the styrene "join" which we've discussed on Soul Source a number of times over the years.

 

Many insist that the join is in fact a complete crack in the record ... and just as many say the opposite, that the join is a natural part of the styrene record making process.

 

Not in this case, it's vinyl

[SHEFFSOUL]

Fair enough? Once it's bought and paid for it's his, if he finds one cheaper after that point then tough luck, such is life, at what point does it not become 'fair enough'? A week, a year,........?

 

yes i agree..i meant that at least hes honest about the REASON to want to return ( again i agree with you once its bought its his)..

[Modernsoulsucks]

big-c... Ciro, it would be good if you were to come on here and give your side of things, too much speculation for my liking

 

 

I have asked Ciro to put his side of this. As far as I am aware he has PM'd the seller since this went public.

 

He maintains it is cracked.

 

So think it best if less speculation and we leave it to him and Sheffsoul to sort out.

 

ROD [Forum Moderator]

[SHEFFSOUL]

I have asked Ciro to put his side of this. As far as I am aware he has PM'd the seller since this went public.

 

He maintains it is cracked.

 

So think it best if less speculation and we leave it to him and Sheffsoul to sort out.

 

ROD [Forum Moderator]

yes..that suits me...on a final note..ive considered the possibilities since this transaction began..and i still think ive called it correctly..

[Pete S]

If the record has no crack and the buyer is trying to get money off - that's not on

If the record does have a crack and the buyer is trying to get money off - then well you can't blame him

at the end of the day, it's one person's word against another's

Nobody died or got injured thankfully.

Let's dance!

[boba]

i'm like a crack detector and have to return many records. some cracks that are very tight and at the edge are very hard to see and people miss them.

[SHEFFSOUL]

i'm like a crack detector and have to return many records. some cracks that are very tight and at the edge are very hard to see and people miss them.

 

i'm like a crack detector and have to return many records. some cracks that are very tight and at the edge are very hard to see and people miss them.

 

 

now then..behave!