Where Have All The "big Lads" Gone?

[Quinvy]

Sorry about the title, it's a term used among some friends of mine for "The Top [make up your own number] Rare and Brilliant Records That Everyone Wants To Own"

 

Is it a sign that the recession is over that these type of records seem to have disappeared from the sales section? 

 

Don't get me wrong, it depresses the hell out of me when I see a 45 that I have always wanted to own for sale and I can't afford to buy it. But the pickings seem to be very slim at the moment.

 

OK, apart from the couple that Pete S has had up.

[Pete S]

Sorry about the title, it's a term used among some friends of mine for "The Top [make up your own number] Rare and Brilliant Records That Everyone Wants To Own"

 

Is it a sign that the recession is over that these type of records seem to have disappeared from the sales section? 

 

Don't get me wrong, it depresses the hell out of me when I see a 45 that I have always wanted to own for sale and I can't afford to buy it. But the pickings seem to be very slim at the moment.

 

OK, apart from the couple that Pete S has had up.

 

Thanks Phil 

[Andrea Ko]

Sorry about the title, it's a term used among some friends of mine for "The Top [make up your own number] Rare and Brilliant Records That Everyone Wants To Own"

 

Is it a sign that the recession is over that these type of records seem to have disappeared from the sales section? 

 

Don't get me wrong, it depresses the hell out of me when I see a 45 that I have always wanted to own for sale and I can't afford to buy it. But the pickings seem to be very slim at the moment.

 

OK, apart from the couple that Pete S has had up.

it's such a long time I'm looking for Ann Bogus and Roy Roberts (I know what to do) that in the meantime I've finished all the money I had to buy them... I have added in my list Reatha Reese in my list but still with no hopes of getting a copy.... maybe you meant even bigger lads....

[Emjaygee]

Sorry about the title, it's a term used among some friends of mine for "The Top [make up your own number] Rare and Brilliant Records That Everyone Wants To Own"

 

Is it a sign that the recession is over that these type of records seem to have disappeared from the sales section? 

 

Don't get me wrong, it depresses the hell out of me when I see a 45 that I have always wanted to own for sale and I can't afford to buy it. But the pickings seem to be very slim at the moment.

 

OK, apart from the couple that Pete S has had up.

 

 

I gave up buying big lads years ago. My attitude to collecting is thus, if I like it and the price is right and I've got a bit of cash, I'll buy it. I've been on the scene (and off a lot) since 1980, and there are still records that I haven't heard, or don't remember heard for one reason and another.

 

I still get excited by picking up something that I haven't heard before even if it's a £10 "cheapie" that never got played because it wasn't rare enough.

[Scal]

I really do think that "The Big Lads" are on their way out.....like all handy fuckers they get old and people forget them.

The new kids on the block take over and become the latest "big lads".....whilst The Inspirations, Del-Larks and a few others may still command vast prices.....the sound of Northern is changing and the appeal and sound has altered....there are new kids on the block.....the oldies eventually will be treated with disdain! IMHO

[Quinvy]

With respect I disagree. The big lads have been the big lads for many years, and there are new big lads that get added to the list as we go on. As an example I would say that; Billy Bird - Lost In The Crowd - Scream has become a big lad. This has a different type of sound but it still immediately appealed to me as soon as I heard it, and it's rare, and it's bloody good.

 

You only have to see the demand for classics like Lou Pride, Tomangoes and George Blackwell etc. etc. the quality of these means they will always be wanted.

[Scal]

Lou Pride may still be rare, whilst Tomangoes and George Blackwell are not show stoppers....my point is that the majority of the "golden era" have had it.

In a few years time the arse will have dropped out of that market.....because the sound has changed and there are so many of them in collections that may flood the market at the same time.

[Guest Bearsy]

Kev Higham has bought them all before anyone else can get a sniff 

[Soulstu]

All this talk of 'big lads' is making me feel a bit queasy. But then again, I've probably only got one big lad in my box (come on! I'm not being rude, the rest are boots and reissues).

[Amsterdam Russ]

Who are the "big lads"? Please do tell...

 

Are there enough of them to make a "Top 1/2/3/4/500" list?

[Quinvy]

Yes but they have been saying the arse will fall out of it since Wigan ended. Well before that actually, I thought it was over around 76 with all the pop at Wigan and the New York disco at the Mecca. I bailed out then and didn't realise that it had carried on until someone told me around 2000.

 

First I couldn't believe it was still going, then he said they were still taking drugs 30 years down the line.   now that I didn't believe.    

[Quinvy]

Who are the "big lads"? Please do tell...

 

Are there enough of them to make a "Top 1/2/3/4/500" list?

 

There's no way I'm going to sit down now and write a definitive list. If you don't know what the most wanted 45's on the planet are by now then you must be an imbecile.

 

When one comes up on ebay there will be a thread about it on this forum. How much will this go for?

[Amsterdam Russ]

There's no way I'm going to sit down now and write a definitive list. If you don't know what the most wanted 45's on the planet are by now then you must be an imbecile.

 

When one comes up on ebay there will be a thread about it on this forum. How much will this go for?

 

For sure I must be an imbecile. Please, I suspect that a list of the top [insert number here] "most wanted 45s on the planet" would be very useful to a lot of us. Could you start with a top 10, perhaps?

[Soulstu]

Yeah, come on Quinvy, give us some big lads' names - Don Varner for a guess?....

[Guest John Ambler]

Job Opening still being fetching loads not an expert in records other skills not sure I am that keen on it really anyway

Lots of records not being played but held by collectors for themselves not much re-cycling collections happening IMO

[Sheldonsoul]

There's no way I'm going to sit down now and write a definitive list. If you don't know what the most wanted 45's on the planet are by now then you must be an imbecile.

 

When one comes up on ebay there will be a thread about it on this forum. How much will this go 

I'm presuming by big boys you mean stuff like Eddie Parker, larry Clinton William Powell,tamala Lewis, the professionals to name a few and the majority of the shrine stuff

Edited March 22, 2014 by sheldonsoul

[Russ Vickers]

I know what Phil means, but as mentioned earlier there are soooo many more records now that are being chased, almost every decade has thrown up its 'must have' rareities....I think on the whole the records that Phil means are already in collections & are 'keepers'....every now & again one will pop up, but will go for mega bucks, which puts me off personally, especially as I could buy a current or recent 'biggie' for less money & if you think in this way, these are the big lads of the future...... 

 

Interesting thread Phil 

 

Best Russ

[Roburt]

A "Big Lad" sound for me would have to be Jimmie 'Bo' Horne's "I Can't Speak".

But this now seems to have had its '15 minutes of fame' and has faded from view a bit (as a soul nite event big play).

There are copies out there however only one sale of the 45 is documented on popsike ($2610), so I'd say this definitely falls into the category of 'in collections but a keeper'.   

[Frankie Crocker]

Phil, you're right, the Premiership sounds are not popping up for sale but that's because they're extremely rare and discerning collectors are keeping hold of them. Championship sounds continue to appear, Delites last week, George Blackwell this week, two Ward Burtons in the last couple of months etc but these are increasingly difficult to find yet the money is evidently there for them. It pays therefore to consider the lower Divisions where there's availability at the right price plus lesser known tunes to sample. John Manship continues to provide the Big Ones, as do other top dealers such as Pete Smith and John Teftteller on both sides of the Atlantic. Soon collectors will have to settle for bargain basement originals for quality sounds as the rarest, rare and scarce records will have all been collected and stowed away.

[Guest Awake 502]

it's such a long time I'm looking for Ann Bogus and Roy Roberts (I know what to do) that in the meantime I've finished all the money I had to buy them... I have added in my list Reatha Reese in my list but still with no hopes of getting a copy.... maybe you meant even bigger lads....

 

I have both in my collection but as I am not active on the scene anymore they just get played at home as I am not ready to sell them. There are lots of others like me, one day they will all come flooding onto the market.

[Labeat]

OK, so you have a Grand to blow on a big ticket oldie, you get it, play it half a dozen times then stash it;

That i would say is a likely scenario for most,

but not me.... give me 10 semi-knowns at a ton apiece anytime, far far more satisfaction

[viphitman]

Phil, you're right, the Premiership sounds are not popping up for sale but that's because they're extremely rare and discerning collectors are keeping hold of them. Championship sounds continue to appear, Delites last week, George Blackwell this week, two Ward Burtons in the last couple of months etc but these are increasingly difficult to find yet the money is evidently there for them. It pays therefore to consider the lower Divisions where there's availability at the right price plus lesser known tunes to sample. John Manship continues to provide the Big Ones, as do other top dealers such as Pete Smith and John Teftteller on both sides of the Atlantic. Soon collectors will have to settle for bargain basement originals for quality sounds as the rarest, rare and scarce records will have all been collected and stowed away.

They will crop up from time to time as they always have done !!! Some collectors will sell up or just sell some big tunes in the need for a few extra bob for a stair lift. The odd collector may speculate for another influx of punters within the next couple of years but if this doesn't happen prices will drop slowly.  

[Quinvy]

What my original thread was implying was; During the recession some incredible 45's have been coming up for sale especially on ebay, but they now seem to be drying up. Does this mean that the recession is coming to an end and that people aren't having to sell the "family silver"?

[Quinvy]

OK, so you have a Grand to blow on a big ticket oldie, you get it, play it half a dozen times then stash it;

That i would say is a likely scenario for most,

but not me.... give me 10 semi-knowns at a ton apiece anytime, far far more satisfaction

 

Neil, I admire your way of thinking. However, when you come to sell "a big lad" you will have no trouble finding a buyer, and you will get your money back, or maybe even make money.

 

Your 10 semi knowns will be in the sales box for a long time mate.

[pogo paul]

Neil, I admire your way of thinking. However, when you come to sell "a big lad" you will have no trouble finding a buyer, and you will get your money back, or maybe even make money.

 

Your 10 semi knowns will be in the sales box for a long time mate.

The 10 semi knowns could be the big sounds of the future, certainly true of many "soul pack" records of the 80s.

[Dobber]

i reckon all collectors/djs want some big ticket items in there box,so the recent sales sections covered in bottom end stuff is collectors selling them to generate the cash to buy the 'big lads' 

 

also,the reason the big lads...ie...the inspirations...mello souls...de-larks... are the in the top number, is because they are the best proper northern soul records we are ever likely to hear/or see

 

and maybe the absolute top/rarest/expensive records get sold/traded behind the scenes? that way it doesnt cheapen its appeal of rareitie!

[Quinvy]

The 10 semi knowns could be the big sounds of the future, certainly true of many "soul pack" records of the 80s.

 

Not a chance in 2014. Everything has been sorted through a million times. Just my opinion of course.

[Raresoul45s]

I sell a lot of rare 45s that don't even hit the internet, still lots of private sales happening.

 

In the last few months I have sold Jimmie 'Bo' Horne's, Timmie Williams, Patrinell Staten, Blades, Nabay, Harry Moon & Fide, Ted Wilson Ty Karim, Sheepherders, Sandi Sheldon, and loads more great tunes all since the turn of the year they're still there you just need to know where to look and who to ask.

 

Plenty more coming for April as well including Four Voices, Anderson Brothers & Reggie Saddler Combo to mention just a few, ok sounds like a sales pitch and I suppose it was but it answers the question as well that's there's still plenty of rare 45s up for grabs without having to get involved in an auction as all of those were set sale.

 

Cheers Darren

[Winsford Soul]

Would Donna King. Take me home be classed in the big boys class ? definitely a rare one. Steve

Edited March 23, 2014 by Winsford Soul

[Labeat]

There will be so many big tunes gone into collections.... collecting dust, seldom played.

You wouldn't have the same wallpaper for 15/20 years.... or would you?

I say "out with the old, in with the new" (but i suppose i'm in a minority).

Incidentally, i'm contemplating putting my old rare stuff on here.

 

WATCH THIS SPACE

[Emjaygee]

Phil, you're right, the Premiership sounds are not popping up for sale but that's because they're extremely rare and discerning collectors are keeping hold of them. Championship sounds continue to appear, Delites last week, George Blackwell this week, two Ward Burtons in the last couple of months etc but these are increasingly difficult to find yet the money is evidently there for them. It pays therefore to consider the lower Divisions where there's availability at the right price plus lesser known tunes to sample. John Manship continues to provide the Big Ones, as do other top dealers such as Pete Smith and John Teftteller on both sides of the Atlantic. Soon collectors will have to settle for bargain basement originals for quality sounds as the rarest, rare and scarce records will have all been collected and stowed away.

Is there a transfer window for the most wanted now then?????

[Louise]

Add to that  a Delites (Cuppy), a Otis Blackwell (Smoke) a Out-Of-Sites (Saru) and a Mark 1V (Britelite) Jesse Johnson (Old Town) by some ole' has been by the name of Soul Bowl at Prestatyn.

[Quinvy]

There will be so many big tunes gone into collections.... collecting dust, seldom played.

You wouldn't have the same wallpaper for 15/20 years.... or would you?

I say "out with the old, in with the new" (but i suppose i'm in a minority).

Incidentally, i'm contemplating putting my old rare stuff on here.

 

WATCH THIS SPACE

 

I would be all for that Neil, but the "new" ain't in the same league.

 

Big Lad = Brilliant & Rare Record that everyone wants to own.

[Labeat]

I would be all for that Neil, but the "new" ain't in the same league.

 

Big Lad = Brilliant & Rare Record that everyone wants to own.

 

Phil, i'm no longer bothered about the big oldies, iv'e had over 30 odd years of hearing them,

i don't want any additions to my collection, i think the last 1 was "Sister Lee" ages ago,

i'm hearing fresh (to me) Soulful stuff all the time and thats  the route for me

[Guest gordon russell]

Phil, i'm no longer bothered about the big oldies, iv'e had over 30 odd years of hearing them,

i don't want any additions to my collection, i think the last 1 was "Sister Lee" ages ago,

i'm hearing fresh (to me) Soulful stuff all the time and thats  the route for me

you ought to try djing......get ya phone book out and give kev roberts a ring

[Guest]

Plenty of records that appear listed to be classed as rare but are they really that rare to warrant the sales price they do now days this is only my opinion but hopefully some may or may not agree its the old saying supply and demand no one know how many or few of those titles John Anderson may be able to put a definitive answer to many titles but many people have brought high myself included only to find that more have turned up that's the joy of collecting its the chase of finding that title for the box and sometimes the brain doesn't click in to say its to high and wait until another come around .

Edited March 22, 2014 by Guest

[pikeys dog]

Post removed ref another site member possibly supplying material for bootlegging (albeit decades ago).

 

Members are reminded that accusations of such are serious, and any post mentioning such should be backed up with evidence.

 

If evidence cannot be supplied, then don't post it...

 

 

Thanks.

[Labeat]

Don't look back.... Look forward guys, get un-earthing new 60's early 70's,

hear stuff that makes your ears prick up, surely the old stuff doesn't stimulate you still.

 

LETS KEEP THE SCENE VIBRANT

[Raremusicdirect]

From what I see there is even greater demand / competition for the big ticket known items ("rare known" ) because they are bankers in terms of dance floor reaction and recovery of value if you ever look to sell on..............They are coming more to market as the internet has increased awareness of the values, but hard on the heels are some aggressive buyers from USA, Germany, Europe and Japan.........so if anything top end prices have risen............

 

I agree that some traditional sounds just aren't in vogue ; but it means they can be found at value. In particular, early soul has dipped as has garage type soul and most RnB...... (imo)

 

I think its best just to buy what you love and treat the value as a bonus, it keeps your mind clear on why you are buying it and the worst that will happen is that you will have a tune you love to play.............

[Russ Vickers]

Once I add a record to my collection it has no monetary value to me - Im not buying for investment purposes or to willy wave on the odd occasion that I get to DJ now, Im buying records that I love & hope I will never have to sell.....

 

Russ

[Labeat]

From what I see there is even greater demand / competition for the big ticket known items ("rare known" ) because they are bankers in terms of dance floor reaction and recovery of value if you ever look to sell on..............They are coming more to market as the internet has increased awareness of the values, but hard on the heels are some aggressive buyers from USA, Germany, Europe and Japan.........so if anything top end prices have risen............

 

I agree that some traditional sounds just aren't in vogue ; but it means they can be found at value. In particular, early soul has dipped as has garage type soul and most RnB...... (imo)

 

I think its best just to buy what you love and treat the value as a bonus, it keeps your mind clear on why you are buying it and the worst that will happen is that you will have a tune you love to play.............A

 

A very polite, sensible and well constructed posting my friend

[viphitman]

I am amazed how many big rare tunes are still to be found in the US...  over the last two years many big tunes were on sale either private or on ebay...

....and now one of my alltime faves is on ebay...Don Gardner Cheating Kind... maybe one day I'll own it