Melvyn Bliss - Synthetic Substitution - Sunburst Now Sold

[waterfall_manc]

Melvyn Bliss - Synthetic Substitution - Sunburst 

 

Lovely copy of this much sought after tune!  Must be an underplayed one in northern circles, one for the more open minded DJ!

 

100.00 UKP NOW SOLD

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfJ7BVsy75A

Edited March 22, 2014 by waterfall_manc

[Andreas B]

Believe RZA has sampled this for Wu-Tang at some point. Killer groove. 

[Godzilla]

I've almost bought this a couple of times but stalled as I'm not sure how to tell the difference between the original and the re-press from about five years ago. You see those listed for £50 upwards, which is crazy. Can anybody advise?

[Kjw]

Is the original a plain white label without the coloured logo

[Jordirip]

Is the original a plain white label without the coloured logo

 

So is this sale original or re-press? The originals look to be the ones without the coloured logo, or UK Contempo.

[Kjw]

Not sure Jordi - both the plain label and the one with the logo are dated 1973. I can't think that it was that popular at the time to warrant a repress.

 

Maybe the plain white ones are simply promo copies even though it doesn't state it on the label.

Edited March 21, 2014 by kjw

[Godzilla]

I thought the plain ones were just promos. There's a coloured logo copy on popsike from 2004 though and I'm sure that was ages before the re-press.

 

Could do with a definitive answer from someone on this.

[Godzilla]

Here's the 2012 re-press and a link to when it was for sale. They look good! No wonder they get sold as originals.



https://ughh.com/melvin-bliss-synthetic-substitution-reward/SU108412/

[Kjw]

I thought the plain ones were just promos. There's a coloured logo copy on popsike from 2004 though and I'm sure that was ages before the re-press.

 

Could do with a definitive answer from someone on this.

 

Found a scan of the original promo - it has Reward on both sides - one in stereo and one in mono

 

Edited March 21, 2014 by kjw

[Jnixon]

Found a scan of the original promo - it has Reward on both sides - one in stereo and one in mono

 

Melvin Bliss.jpg

 

how can that be an original of synthetic substitution if its got reward on both sides?

Edited March 21, 2014 by JNixon

[Jnixon]

was assured by the owner that its the original for sale here

[Godzilla]

It's really tricky.

There's a Monclairs 45 from the late 60s with a white promo that looks like the definite original of Melvin Bliss and two different red issues. Later releases from early 70s (including 1973 like Melvin Bliss) have both issues and promos on the coloured variation.  Sometimes the promos are mono/stereo versions of the A side as with "reward' and sometimes they have the same A and B sides as the regular issue.

 

We could do with an expert on the label here...

[Kjw]

how can that be an original of synthetic substitution if its got reward on both sides?

 

Reward was the A side so when they put the promo out they put Reward on both sides - one in mono and one in stereo - just like lots of promos

 

When the issue came out it had Synthetic Substitution as the B side.

[Guest Paul]

I bought it as a new release, on Sunburst and also on UK Contempo, and I admit I overlooked 'Synthetic Substitution' for some years because I loved 'Reward' so much.  I think it's fair to say that most people overlooked both sides.

It was quite an easy record to find at the time (but forty years ago now, let's not forget) and for many years it was probably difficult to sell for more than a pound or two because sadly there wasn't very much interest in it - not until the intro of 'Synthetic Substitution' was first sampled and looped etc.  Suddenly a demand existed.

I've had several US issues (and promos with 'Reward' on both sides) on both vinyl and styrene.  There were several original vinyl issues (using different plants) but most vinyl copies were pressed at the Specialty plant in Olyphant, Pa., and the labels have a  SP suffix after the matrix number.  The recent repros tried to emulate that style but on closer inspection they used some incorrect fonts in places.

 

I'm pretty sure I also once had a vinyl copy which was pressed at NAMI (the company which took over the former Capitol plant in Scranton) and that's even easier to identify because of the different label typesetting and even more because of those distinctive interlocking serrations near the edge of the labels - as commonly seen on most UK 45s until the late 1970s but only seen in the US on Capitol and NAMI pressings.

 

The styrene copies were pressed at Bestway in New Jersey and they are easy to recognise as typical Bestway pressings, the labels also having a BW suffix after the matrix number.

 

If in any doubt about authenticity, the styrene copies from Bestway are safe to buy (because bootlegs are almost always on vinyl these days) and of course the UK Contempo issue is authentic but I think it's also quite easy to spot an original vinyl issue from Specialty or NAMI.

Paul

 

Edited March 21, 2014 by Paul

[waterfall_manc]

its off a reputable contact so sure its OG

 

i'll get the scan up when home chaps, be a few hours yet though

[Paulb]

Maxwell flogging boots yet again.

[Godzilla]

Thanks to Paul Mooney for a detailed and helpful answer

[waterfall_manc]

here the scan lads, sorry for delay

 

comparing it in my hand and from the pic the boldness on both the sunburst and records ltd is a lot thinner, also the font size on the left hand side is a lot smaller too.  im confident its OG

 

Jay - will message you now, obviosuly money back if not happy but when you get it in your hand and compare it against the below you can defo see distinct differences

 

 

[pikeys dog]

Looks like 70's paper on the label to me (don't laugh) - it's got like a "glitter flake" in the paper, which is a 70s thing..

[waterfall_manc]

have spoke with paul over pm's , he reckons its OG, have asked him to add to here anyhow.  

 

honestly if you have it in hand and compare against that link difference are substantial.

[Guest Paul]

here the scan lads, sorry for delay

 

comparing it in my hand and from the pic the boldness on both the sunburst and records ltd is a lot thinner, also the font size on the left hand side is a lot smaller too.  im confident its OG

 

Jay - will message you now, obviosuly money back if not happy but when you get it in your hand and compare it against the below you can defo see distinct differences

 

 

Hello Adam,

Looking at the photo of your copy I've no doubt that it's an authentic original vinyl issue from the Specialty plant.

I compared the typesetting (mainly the fonts and tracking) with an image of the repro and your copy uses two old Univers fonts, unlike the repro which uses Swiss type fonts which may seem similar at a quick glance but they're not quite the same - not quite as condensed on the artist name and title - and they're also spaced closer together (auto tracking set at zero on computer rather than old-style setting).

 

The more I compare them, the more differences I see.  Another obvious difference is that on the label address line, which runs around the lower edge of the label, the SP original issue uses a narrow Trade Gothic font (almost certainly TradeGothicBoldCond20) but the repro uses just two fonts for all text: Swiss 721 Cn BT and probably Swiss 721 Md or 721 BT and there are very noticable differences on some characters more than others.  More obvious, the artist name, title and catalogue number are set in Univers Cond on the original, it's a distinctive font and was used a lot by Specialty.

 

And, maybe most obvious of all, the font used for the Sunburst logo is much heavier on the repro - as you said.

 

I hope that's good news for you and Jay.

Best wishes,

 

Paul

Edited March 22, 2014 by Paul

[waterfall_manc]

this is back available again, jay sourced his old copy!

[Paulb]

Sounds like the public has lost faith in adam maxwell. It was only a matter of time.

[Jnixon]

Sounds like the public has lost faith in adam maxwell. It was only a matter of time.

 

Nah. I just know my old one is an original due to the year i bought it. Helped a skint mate into the bargain and the ever trustworthy Adam has sold his now so its all, er, bliss.

[Jordirip]

Hello Adam,

Looking at the photo of your copy I've no doubt that it's an authentic original vinyl issue from the Specialty plant.

I compared the typesetting (mainly the fonts and tracking) with an image of the repro and your copy uses two old Univers fonts, unlike the repro which uses Swiss type fonts which may seem similar at a quick glance but they're not quite the same - not quite as condensed on the artist name and title - and they're also spaced closer together (auto tracking set at zero on computer rather than old-style setting).

 

The more I compare them, the more differences I see.  Another obvious difference is that on the label address line, which runs around the lower edge of the label, the SP original issue uses a narrow Trade Gothic font (almost certainly TradeGothicBoldCond20) but the repro uses just two fonts for all text: Swiss 721 Cn BT and probably Swiss 721 Md or 721 BT and there are very noticable differences on some characters more than others.  More obvious, the artist name, title and catalogue number are set in Univers Cond on the original, it's a distinctive font and was used a lot by Specialty.

 

And, maybe most obvious of all, the font used for the Sunburst logo is much heavier on the repro - as you said.

 

I hope that's good news for you and Jay.

Best wishes,

 

Paul

 

Paul you're a font of information.

[Paulb]

Adam Maxwell is the new face of northern soul.

Edited March 22, 2014 by PaulB

[waterfall_manc]

now sold!

 

barker get back in your box! heard you had sold all your decent tunes and have been buying boogie funk so just concentrate on that!

[Paulb]

*Deletes soul source account, sighs heavily, puts on some boogie funk and gets back in his box*

[Guest Paul]

I'm glad it's sold, Adam, it's a very nice 45, and two of Herby Rooney's very best Songs.

 

Paul

[Guest Paul]

Paul you're a font of information.

 

 

That's a great pun, Jordi, you should be writing headlines for The Sun.

 

Sometimes I think my interest in design and typography etc is a "bit sad" but it's nice when it comes in handy (such as on this thread) and it's also part of my work anyway.

 

It's a lot like our interests in music history etc, it gets to the point where we can remember the catalogue number of a particular 45, or what plant it was pressed at, but we have trouble remembering our National Insurance number or what we had for breakfast this morning !

 

It's odd how some obscure facts seems to be stuck somewhere in our brains but at least I suppose it means our brains are still working to some extent.

 

 

Best wishes

 

 

Edited March 22, 2014 by Paul