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This R&b Thing ?

Guest Dave Ward

By Guest Dave Ward
in All About the SOUL

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Mace
Mace

Yes, undoubtably some stuff has been played that pushed the limits on what is acceptable to the UK soul scene....but this is no different to the extreme dross that has been played from every other gen

Little-stevie
Little-stevie

I would take note of Mace, he knows his onions from being out there every week  over the years and dealing in records of various description......   Most of these topics are pissing in the

Chalky
Chalky

  Ray Agee is a R&B or hard edged soul as some call it record adopted by the Northern Soul Scene.  There is no genre of music called Northern Soul.  The Northern Scene is an umbrella n

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Guest Bearsy

Guest Bearsy

Posted
Posted

I'm DJing at GoGo in May...come say hello and I'll play all your non-faves for ya....no dancing though, or pics will be posted!

Thanks for the warning  :lol:  if I've recovered in time I will try to make Go Go its a big fave of mine  :hatsoff2:

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Wiggyflat Veteran

Wiggyflat

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Posted (edited)

Otis lee -hard road to hoe.   God damn awful record that somehow gets a full dance floor at a "northern soul" event.   Someone going to tell me its not RnB but northern or punk or something  :lol:

It's a blues record of course.I love all these r&b records but personally I don't see them as part of the northern soul scene...these were the records that Sandi Sheldon and the uptempo stuff were breaking away from.All of the r&b records wouldn't have been out of place  from The Wheel/Scene Club/Last Chance etc and are grittier.Mod music for people in skinny trousers and suits into the sixties style.Northern Soul ....it's not hard.Uptempo late sixties Soul based on the mid late sixties Motown Sound.When it goes wrong is when it's trying to teach old dogs new tricks.Now Capitol Soul Club explained the southern revivalist mod movement from the early eighties.....Shmon-Mr Dynamite,Im Your Breadmaker,Shake Your Hips,Don't Start Crying Now etc etc are the r&b records that they got off on and these style of records are what the Southern Mods took with them when the mod scene imploded and one half went soul and the other half went psych.Now the northern mod Scene pre Quad (which had been an ongoing movement and progressive)and before the southern Mod Revival were into the full on uptempo northern sounds....ie your Sandi Sheldons,Terrible Tom's,Joe Hicks etc etc.

 

Here's Bob Monkhouse from 73......when R&B was not on the radar for mods but northern soul definately was.

post-18577-0-38623200-1393977305_thumb.j

Edited by wiggyflat
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Guest Bearsy

Guest Bearsy

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So, see you all down at the R&B sessions in the Redemption Room this coming weekend at Prestatyn then?  :wicked:  :D  :thumbsup:

So just another northern soul room under a different title  :wicked:  :lol:

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Mace Veteran

Mace

Posted
Posted (edited)

6 pages on and I'm not sure the original poster (Dave Ward) ever came back after his first post.....

 

Apologies if I missed another post......otherwise looks like we've all been sucked in again? :lol:

 

PS Ray Agee is an. R&B record...end of chat

Edited by Mace
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Guest penny

Guest penny

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What? They wrote a tune, hired an arranger and singer and then they spent

studio time and pressed up the record in order to create future rarity...?

No, they pressed 1000 copies with the hope of selling a million.

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Len Veteran

Len

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Are you saying that is or it isn't. Confused of Edinburgh.

 

Hi Jocko,

 

I meant 'I'm Gone'.......away from the computer, as it seems real life was happening just outside my front door........I must have forgot it would make no sense! :D 

 

But back to 'this'.......'I'm Gone' IS Northern Soul - WITH BELLS ON!.........(Ahem.......just so ya know) :wink: 

 

All the best,

 

Len :thumbsup: 

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Quinvy Veteran

Quinvy

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Posted

R&B is just another label we have given to certain tunes. Like every other genre of this music, we will never agree on what constitutes a good or bad tune. Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. It just seems that most of you are a bit mutton jeff.  :lol:

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Guest Mr Faye

Guest Mr Faye

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i'm still young on the scene (18), but i feel that r&b is the way forward now...more and more young people are liking their r&b. I'm going to nights every weekend (atleast two) and on the scene it seems that alot of the northern fans look down on the r&b side...but i really do believe it's where the sounds are heading. The northern will always stay...but more r&b is getting played out now, and the kids are enjoying it, besides, it's us that have to keep the scene alive :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr_Mhvc4OTE

 

Aaron

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Pete S Veteran

Pete S

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Posted

i'm still young on the scene (18), but i feel that r&b is the way forward now...more and more young people are liking their r&b. I'm going to nights every weekend (atleast two) and on the scene it seems that alot of the northern fans look down on the r&b side...but i really do believe it's where the sounds are heading. The northern will always stay...but more r&b is getting played out now, and the kids are enjoying it, besides, it's us that have to keep the scene alive :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr_Mhvc4OTE

 

Aaron

 

But this music (Ruth Brown) has nothing to do with Northern Soul, you might as well just call them Rhythm & Blues nights and take NS out of the equation altogether.  Different planet.  If that's what the younger people are into, then there will be no Northern Soul Scene in 10 years time.

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Guest Mr Faye

Guest Mr Faye

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Posted

But this music (Ruth Brown) has nothing to do with Northern Soul, you might as well just call them Rhythm & Blues nights and take NS out of the equation altogether.  Different planet.  If that's what the younger people are into, then there will be no Northern Soul Scene in 10 years time.

 

I'm not saying that, the northern side will always be there, but i was just saying that more and more r&b is getting played out at northern nights. I still love my northern, and i love my r&b...and so do alot of the other kids my age. Nothing wrong with say, one DJ at a nighter playing a set of r&b at a northern do...i'm just explaining how i see it now... :yes:

 

Aaron

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Pete S Veteran

Pete S

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Posted

I'm not saying that, the northern side will always be there, but i was just saying that more and more r&b is getting played out at northern nights. I still love my northern, and i love my r&b...and so do alot of the other kids my age. Nothing wrong with say, one DJ at a nighter playing a set of r&b at a northern do...i'm just explaining how i see it now... :yes:

 

Aaron

 

I understand, but why not just play it at an R&B do?  This is what I'm not quite getting. If we want to go out and hear Northern Soul - why not play Northern Soul?

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Guest Bearsy

Guest Bearsy

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Posted

i'm still young on the scene (18), but i feel that r&b is the way forward now...more and more young people are liking their r&b. I'm going to nights every weekend (atleast two) and on the scene it seems that alot of the northern fans look down on the r&b side...but i really do believe it's where the sounds are heading. The northern will always stay...but more r&b is getting played out now, and the kids are enjoying it, besides, it's us that have to keep the scene alive :thumbsup:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hr_Mhvc4OTE

 

Why don't you create your own scene if you want to hear more RnB and then you won't have to shoulder the burden of keeping the Northern/Rare soul scene alive at such a young age   :hatsoff2:

 

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TOAD Veteran

TOAD

Posted
Posted

i'm still young on the scene (18), but i feel that r&b is the way forward now...more and more young people are liking their r&b. I'm going to nights every weekend (atleast two) and on the scene it seems that alot of the northern fans look down on the r&b side...but i really do believe it's where the sounds are heading. The northern will always stay...but more r&b is getting played out now, and the kids are enjoying it, besides, it's us that have to keep the scene alive :thumbsup:

Aaron

yes i like urban rnb :)
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John Parker Long Time

John Parker

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Yes, undoubtably some stuff has been played that pushed the limits on what is acceptable to the UK soul scene....but this is no different to the extreme dross that has been played from every other genre in the pursuit of playing something different.

R&B on the whole is very cool club music, but generally frowned upon by those who wish to play dreary Luther Vandross records or applaud the efforts of Pharrell Wotshisname in an effort to think that they are still cool despite losing most of their hair and teeth 10 years ago.

Charles Sheffield fills oldies dancefloors as much as any Wigan Oldie and probably moreso than any Shrine Trophy piece......Rock'n'Roll.....FFS

As for Northern Soul events back then, 1985 was undoubtably a more enjoyable time scenewise than 2014....not as many pidgeon holes to segregate this wonderful diverse range of soul music that we go out to celebrate each and every week....

Enjoy what ticks your boxes, take no notice of derogatory comments from the blinkered moaners and groaners that usually fester from behind keyboards every Saturday night instead of actually experiencing what is rocking the dancefloors at a variety of clubs nationwide nowadays....

Simples.

Absolutely agree with everything you say Mace...and from the likes..so do a lot of other people

I go back to growing up in the North West where there was a healthy soul scene.

As a 15 year old..1970/71..started buying records that the "older lads " were buying at and playing...we had a record player in the common room at school at that time.

Now what I recall is a broad church of stuff at the time..what is now called club soul, rnb...even things like Prince Buster etc.We had a great journey of discovery and almost perverse feeling of superiority finding and buying this non chart stuff.We got small boxes of records together and played them out at the local youth clubs..certainly didn't consider ourself "DJs"

Move forward a couple of years and the type of records played got more well defined.

When Mr Godin termed the style Northern Soul my belief is that it was to differentiate it from the developing Funk scene.

so what is Northern Soul?....does RnB count..YES..

For me I love and buy and play it all.It's all in the mix...why not include Ray Agee,Hayes cotten,Nat Hall,Timmie Williams,Brookes Bros,Bobby and Betty Lou Adams etc etc etc....and into that why not mix some of the "newer plays"..Buddy Ace,Tiny Topsy,Little Joe Hinton,Duane Yates,JDAbramsetc etc etc...keeps the sound fresh and takes us back to our roots...talking of which..Sam and Kitty..banging RnB!!!!

Just off to find my tin hat now

Peace and Happiness

John P

Edited by john parker
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Denbo Veteran

Denbo

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But this music (Ruth Brown) has nothing to do with Northern Soul, you might as well just call them Rhythm & Blues nights and take NS out of the equation altogether.  Different planet.  If that's what the younger people are into, then there will be no Northern Soul Scene in 10 years time.

I don't think young Mr. Faye was saying that what he likes has anything to do with Northern, except to say that it was perhaps via the Northern scene that he got into R&B. It sounds like he now goes to R&B nights only, cos that's what he likes. He's just making an observation as to how he sees things, whilst pointing out that he thinks Northern fans look down on the R&B crowd, by the sound of it wrongly in his view. I thought his comments were quite valid to this raging debate and very well put for such a young lad.

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Russ Vickers Veteran

Russ Vickers

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Calling all promoters. Can we please have  across the  board music at a allnighter . Without calling it this or that

Go on I dare you. Steve

 

I agree whole heartedly, but can we also NOT call what is played at this event 'Across the Board'. 

 

A one room All Nighter playing vintage soulful dance music from across the decades with the emphasis on the 6ts & 7ts, but not excluding any decade or genre that has the X Factor, with an odd appropriate new release & oh yea, a mix of oldies & Newies.  

 

I think this was the music policy of virtually every successful Allnighter there has ever been... 

 

Why others now dont get this is totally beyond me...

 

Russ

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Len Veteran

Len

Posted
Posted (edited)

i'm still young on the scene (18), but i feel that r&b is the way forward now...more and more young people are liking their r&b. I'm going to nights every weekend (atleast two) and on the scene it seems that alot of the northern fans look down on the r&b side...but i really do believe it's where the sounds are heading. The northern will always stay...but more r&b is getting played out now, and the kids are enjoying it, besides, it's us that have to keep the scene alive :thumbsup:

 

Aaron

 

Not if I have anything to do with it matey :wink: 

 

All the best,

 

Len :thumbsup: 

Edited by LEN
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Little-stevie Veteran

Little-stevie

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I agree whole heartedly, but can we also NOT call what is played at this event 'Across the Board'. 

 

A one room All Nighter playing vintage soulful dance music from across the decades with the emphasis on the 6ts & 7ts, but not excluding any decade or genre that has the X Factor, with an odd appropriate new release & oh yea, a mix of oldies & Newies.  

 

I think this was the music policy of virtually every successful Allnighter there has ever been... 

 

Why others now dont get this is totally beyond me...

 

Russ

.... A good point Russ but clarify big room all niter or I know a person who will be ready to piss on your chips....

Edited by little-stevie
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Pete S Veteran

Pete S

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I don't think young Mr. Faye was saying that what he likes has anything to do with Northern, except to say that it was perhaps via the Northern scene that he got into R&B. It sounds like he now goes to R&B nights only, cos that's what he likes. He's just making an observation as to how he sees things, whilst pointing out that he thinks Northern fans look down on the R&B crowd, by the sound of it wrongly in his view. I thought his comments were quite valid to this raging debate and very well put for such a young lad.

 

Are you his Grandad or something?

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Russ Vickers Veteran

Russ Vickers

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Posted

.... A good point Russ but clarify big room all niter or I know a person who will be ready to piss on your chips....

 

Unless playing predominantly a certain type of oldie, I consider a big room to be 300 - 500 these days, I know that isnt big by the standards of times gone by, but by todays standards, if you could fill a one room Nighter playing a diverse mixture of soulful dance music, then I think you would of had a major result...not sure it can be done, but I would tip my hat to anyone that tried.

 

Best Russ

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Len Veteran

Len

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Posted

Original post from Dave Ward - My last all-nighter was 1985, so forgive me if I'm off the mark here, R&B to me was cool, not Northern Soul dance music, but cool. Why is there this hatred towards R&B now ? I've seen photo's of people wearing anti-R&B T-shirts ? Is it something todays DJ's are pushing, that offends people. A couple of examples I could hear or look up on YTube, would help me understand.

 

......So Dave, has 'all of the above' helped you understand?........at all........ :wink: 

 

All the best,

 

Len :thumbsup: 

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Winsford Soul Veteran

Winsford Soul

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Posted

Unless playing predominantly a certain type of oldie, I consider a big room to be 300 - 500 these days, I know that isnt big by the standards of times gone by, but by todays standards, if you could fill a one room Nighter playing a diverse mixture of soulful dance music, then I think you would of had a major result...not sure it can be done, but I would tip my hat to anyone that tried.

 

Best Russ

Russ. That's what lines Winsford was run on. A anything goes policy by any DJ that was booked .play what you want. As long as it was original vinyl only. Why don't we have a debate about that.  :lol: Steve

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Back Street Blue Long Time

Back Street Blue

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Posted (edited)

Don't know why R&B is looked down on by some, has always had it's place at "soul clubs" to my knowledge......if the track had the right sound & tempo

 

Took my little portable cassette recorder to Bill Honey's in 1976 to tape some of his records from the stuff he used to play at the Wheel and this was right in the middle of James Carr, Shirley Ellis, Soul Sisters, Little Hank etc.......

 

 

(koko taylor - wang dang doodle)

 

Bill DJ'd at Whitworth Street late 60's, not at the R&B venue in Brazenose Street.

 

If the Wheel is (one of the clubs) where it all started and was R&B first, turning to soul as the latter genre emerged /was christened, its inevitable that there'd be a fusion between the two isn't it?

 

I think that the R&B stuff that got played at NS clubs in the 70's was cherry picked to fit the scene, whereas the current R&B scene is more appreciative of the whole range of R&B 60's cuts.

 

Call it what you like, I like a bit of R&B.....if I can dance to it like I want to

 

Edited by back street blue
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Russ Vickers Veteran

Russ Vickers

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Posted

Russ. That's what lines Winsford was run on. A anything goes policy by any DJ that was booked .play what you want. As long as it was original vinyl only. Why don't we have a debate about that.  :lol: Steve

 

I was a regular at Winsford & DJ'd in the Modern Room on several occasions.  That was when Pete was at the helm BTW.

 

Russ

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Len Veteran

Len

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ask Len about my dancing :hatsoff2:

 

 

:ohmy: 

 

You dance how the h*ll you like 'young man' :wink: 

 

Yes you did dance to most of the tunes I played, and I am a little surprised at some of the tunes you have posted up - That's not a dig, just my observation because of this. Whether you like em or not though, doesn't come into it - It's whether they should be included at soul events.

 

Answer - No  

 

All the best,

 

Len :thumbsup: 

Edited by LEN
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hullsoul Veteran

hullsoul

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Posted

:ohmy: 

 

You dance how the h*ll you like 'young man' :wink: 

 

Yes you did dance to most of the tunes I played, and I am a little surprised at some of the tunes you have posted up - That's not a dig, just my observation because of this. Whether you like em or not though, doesn't come into it - It's whether they should be included at soul events.

 

Answer - No  

 

All the best,

 

Len :thumbsup: 

Len

Does that apply to the other end of the spectrum as well?No 70t's & Modern played just mid to late 60t's only?

Cheers

Martyn

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