An Interesting Question About Northern Soul

[Winnie :-)]

"We were pretending to be black. We danced as though we were black. We even sang as though we were black". This is the quote

Do you think northern soul involves pretending to be black? This is the question

The quote is ridiculous, the question being asked is by someone who has read

something, given it very little thought then asked "well, what do you think" who

cares what 1 NS fan says ? They don't speak for the entire NS fraternity, if an

intern of mine asked such a question I'd run over him/her in my car, set him/her

on fire and then urinate on them to put it out..................and that's on a good day. What's next ? "Do you think wearing bowling shirts is a message statement that all NS

fans are secret 10 pin bowling addicts" "Are NS dancers drunks and/or alcoholics because lots of them seem to have beer towels in their waistbands" "Are NS dancers drug addicts because they dance all night, can't stop talking and seem to be very bad tempered next morning" I rest my suitcase. Chris L

=============

Chris,

Didn't northern style dancing include imitating performing black artists moves to some degree? It's not about pretending to be black, its about imitation...... I think, and the two are entirely different IMO.

At Wigan, someone wore a bowling shirt, others followed, someone wore vests, others followed. It's just imitation.......don't you think??

Winnie:-)

[Guest]

"We were pretending to be black. We danced as though we were black. We even sang as though we were black". This is the quote

Do you think northern soul involves pretending to be black? This is the question

The quote is ridiculous, the question being asked is by someone who has read

something, given it very little thought then asked "well, what do you think" who

cares what 1 NS fan says ? They don't speak for the entire NS fraternity, if an

intern of mine asked such a question I'd run over him/her in my car, set him/her

on fire and then urinate on them to put it out..................and that's on a good day. What's next ? "Do you think wearing bowling shirts is a message statement that all NS

fans are secret 10 pin bowling addicts" "Are NS dancers drunks and/or alcoholics because lots of them seem to have beer towels in their waistbands" "Are NS dancers drug addicts because they dance all night, can't stop talking and seem to be very bad tempered next morning" I rest my suitcase. Chris L

Now who's sounding ridiculous! I think you've incorrectly interpreted the question in it's entirety and to suddenly throw in the racist card is out of order. The statement about being black is a compliment if you ask me!

[Guest nubes]

Now who's sounding ridiculous! I think you've incorrectly interpreted the question in it's entirety and to suddenly throw in the racist card is out of order. The statement about being black is a compliment if you ask me!

Well Kaz, just think, when you hit 45 like moi, people will still be asking and disbeliveing just how old you are, just remember folks. Black Dont Crack,Del (who at 45 still looks 17, but from very long distances!!!!!!),Del xxxxxxxxx

[Guest]

You age like fine wines nubian75soulsis I hope you don't think we're all bonkers on here

[Guest nubes]

You age like fine wines nubian75soulsis I hope you don't think we're all bonkers on here

Karen, I have been aware of Northern since '75 and if anything, i think that northern soulies have calmed down a lot since then babes, if anything, I think we are all bloody mad, but that eccentricity is what sets us apart from everyone who is soo horribly 'normal' ugh, the day darling that i see other people treating me 'normally' is the day that i will be buried in my marshmallow pink and leopard skin linned final resting bed. Delxx

[Guest]

i will be buried in my marshmallow pink and leopard skin linned final resting bed

Phew! And I thought I was the only one who wanted a pink box Mine's having glitter though

Edited July 12, 2006 by ♫ Soulgirl ♫

[Guest nubes]

Phew! And I thought I was the only one who wanted a pink box Mine's having glitter though

Now that's just showing out girlfriend!!! Delxxx

[Guest martyn]

====================

1. London always ready to move onto the next fad, so nothing stays in vogue for very long.

2. The rarity gave a feeling of one-upmanship against those not following the scene, would also give status, which would improve self respect and self esteem

3. West Indians coming to Britain already had a specific music to follow.......Reggae. This was considered far purer than music (motown) etc that was generally mass produced for a white audience.

4. Think we liked the motown sound, that was recognised by many struggling black artists, so in effort to make a living, they tried to reproduce the sound. Basically horses for courses.

5. Think the link is tenuous at best, most into the scene now have been at it for 20/30 years. In the 6Ts it would have been fresh, and as with anything new, you have those who wish to jump on the bandwagon. Don't think that's the case these days as very few are actually experiencing the music for the first time.

Haven't tried to give a difinitive answer, cos I'm not sure there is one, this is just my take on the questions asked. Didn't try to answer them in too much depth because I think the post would probably have had to have been far too long and involved.

Winnie:-)

Don't know whether I agree or not,but its as good an answer as I think the question can get or deserves

[Guest martyn]

Now who's sounding ridiculous! I think you've incorrectly interpreted the question in it's entirety and to suddenly throw in the racist card is out of order. The statement about being black is a compliment if you ask me!

The original thread is provocative ..............Lets start again:

A question asked by a friend of mine at Uni ,

"Do you think that the Black people watching The Who on the Isle of White in 1971 wished they were White?"..........Discusss.

As I said earlier total Bollocks,perhaps the question should be;

"Do you think my Son/Daughter deserves a place at University as he/she is an obvious imbecile"

[Guest]

I give up!

[Guest]

How could we dance as if we were black? We didn't know how blacks danced. There was no 'Soul Train' or anything like it to watch. The nearest we got to blacks dancing was to see the early Temptations doing their walk.

We were soul kids and we did 'our' dance. It started out as the simple 'Wendy' dance, one step to the left, one step to the right. It was simple and boring and it didn't reflect the way we felt about the music. The way it affected us. So along came the hand claps and body twists.

A half turn was great for breaking it up and also gave you a chance to speak to the person behind you. But always in tempo! The music came first. It wasn't long before a half turn became a full turn and then a spin, and the spins just grew and grew.

The question misses totally what is a much more important sociological event that needs to be examined in more depths. An event that is the birth of Northern Soul as opposed to Soul.

Why for a period of about 13 years did the aspirations of black Americans reflect the aspirations of white working class Britain's.

Its important to realise that following the war the Conservative Government made a decision to censure American music so as not to 'corrupt' British youth. The B.B.C. adopted a policy of playing 1 record per hour all other music being 'live'. This meant that American records had to compete against British records for very limited airplay. Black music stood no chance of being heard.(The B.B.C. maintained they couldn't afford to pay the royalties on records)

Dispute this control of music in 1955 Chuck Berry and friends arrived and became the music of choice for white kids, albeit underground.

By the end of the 50's the kids had discovered there was more than just Rock and Roll and Rhythm and Blues (Coasters, Robins, Drifters) was now the staple diet of club dancers. The B.B.C. as usual was totally oblivious to this

By the early 60's the Beatles was the music of choice. Hold on a minute! Look at the Beatles early albums. They are full of Motown. The Rolling Stones albums are full of Marvin Gaye, Don Covay, Otis. All the major groups were playing soul to an audience hungry for it and unable to find it on their radio dials. Luxembourg was a God send but it only broadcast in the evening and reception was BAD.

Then the pirate ships forced the B.B.C.'s hand and we had all day records and suddenly Soul was in the charts.

Then in 1968 there was a change in Black Music. It became socially aware, It became funkier, it became heavier.Tempts were talking about Cloud Nine, Tops about Still Waters. James Brown came into his own. Sly Stone emerged along with Funkadelic.

And all those white kids who had used Soul music as a vehicle for their hopes and dreams were suddenly saying "but this has got nothing to do with me"

Black music had always been the music of humour and swagger, love and lose, fashion and cars. It was the voice of white British Youth and now it was talking about Ghetto's we didn't live in and human rights we had.

At this point British soul fans dropped black music as it was and went in search of black music the way it was. And Northern Soul was born.

We didn't try to be black but for a period of about 13 years Black America and White Britain had a shared voice. Shame we didn't do more with it

[Guest]

What a fab post Digger Thank you!

[SteveM]

How could we dance as if we were black? We didn't know how blacks danced. There was no 'Soul Train' or anything like it to watch. The nearest we got to blacks dancing was to see the early Temptations doing their walk.

We were soul kids and we did 'our' dance. It started out as the simple 'Wendy' dance, one step to the left, one step to the right. It was simple and boring and it didn't reflect the way we felt about the music. The way it affected us. So along came the hand claps and body twists.

A half turn was great for breaking it up and also gave you a chance to speak to the person behind you. But always in tempo! The music came first. It wasn't long before a half turn became a full turn and then a spin, and the spins just grew and grew.

The question misses totally what is a much more important sociological event that needs to be examined in more depths. An event that is the birth of Northern Soul as opposed to Soul.

Why for a period of about 13 years did the aspirations of black Americans reflect the aspirations of white working class Britain's.

Its important to realise that following the war the Conservative Government made a decision to censure American music so as not to 'corrupt' British youth. The B.B.C. adopted a policy of playing 1 record per hour all other music being 'live'. This meant that American records had to compete against British records for very limited airplay. Black music stood no chance of being heard.(The B.B.C. maintained they couldn't afford to pay the royalties on records)

Dispute this control of music in 1955 Chuck Berry and friends arrived and became the music of choice for white kids, albeit underground.

By the end of the 50's the kids had discovered there was more than just Rock and Roll and Rhythm and Blues (Coasters, Robins, Drifters) was now the staple diet of club dancers. The B.B.C. as usual was totally oblivious to this

By the early 60's the Beatles was the music of choice. Hold on a minute! Look at the Beatles early albums. They are full of Motown. The Rolling Stones albums are full of Marvin Gaye, Don Covay, Otis. All the major groups were playing soul to an audience hungry for it and unable to find it on their radio dials. Luxembourg was a God send but it only broadcast in the evening and reception was BAD.

Then the pirate ships forced the B.B.C.'s hand and we had all day records and suddenly Soul was in the charts.

Then in 1968 there was a change in Black Music. It became socially aware, It became funkier, it became heavier.Tempts were talking about Cloud Nine, Tops about Still Waters. James Brown came into his own. Sly Stone emerged along with Funkadelic.

And all those white kids who had used Soul music as a vehicle for their hopes and dreams were suddenly saying "but this has got nothing to do with me"

Black music had always been the music of humour and swagger, love and lose, fashion and cars. It was the voice of white British Youth and now it was talking about Ghetto's we didn't live in and human rights we had.

At this point British soul fans dropped black music as it was and went in search of black music the way it was. And Northern Soul was born.

We didn't try to be black but for a period of about 13 years Black America and White Britain had a shared voice. Shame we didn't do more with it

Great post

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