Frankie Crocker Posted January 31, 2014 Posted January 31, 2014 i guess it's just a technicality because it's effectively the same, but the neither the four tracks, clara hardy, or willie pickett were "tracked". The four tracks and clara hardy were just uncovered by junkers and dumped on the market. The willie picketts were a result of funkyou's detroit operation hitting an old record store stock. So in none of these cases did someone track the producer, label owner, etc., it was just a case of bulk being found. Bang on Bob. Just wish the 'junkers' would turn up a box of George Pepps... Proves there are still hoards of mint stock to be found 50 years down the road but this has to end sometime.
Popular Post boba Posted February 1, 2014 Popular Post Posted February 1, 2014 I don't think people understand how much stuff was thrown away / melted down. I don't think until recently I understood the importance of people like John Anderson exporting records in preserving the vinyl. If only UK tastes of the time didn't dictate what he could sell and what he couldn't, there would be a lot more stuff available. A lot of people don't understand that a lot of extremely rare records were pressed in 1000 or much more, it's just that nobody went through the effort of claiming the unsold stock and exporting it. 5
Popular Post Dave Pinch Posted February 1, 2014 Popular Post Posted February 1, 2014 and america is a big old place...naturally still plenty of time to unearth more gems....more time than we all have....george pepp is not safe... why would it be ,theres still every chance boxes could be found. same as any other rare title. 4
Marc Forrest Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 Oxford Knights...some thought and still do until today the find was actually a repress. Four Tracks...paid a heavy sum for mine about a month or two before they were hitting the bay. ouch. Dream Team.... traded against my mint George Blackwell PLUS cash ... doh! Thankfully found another mint George Blackwell soon after. Seem to remember the remaining stock first went to Shifty who was the first to cut down the price to 100 GBP. Still remember the conversation I had with him about it at that time.. Think amongst the biggest contenders for the title of biggest fall from grace have to be the four vandals though ;) 1
Wiggyflat Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 I contacted the seller about the Jesse Davis.He said his brother had a big boxfull.It's a waiting game.I've seen people still trying to sell it at 800...Betty Lloyds are regularly at around 350.How many of the diff mix came out?
Marc Forrest Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 I contacted the seller about the Jesse Davis.He said his brother had a big boxfull.It's a waiting game.I've seen people still trying to sell it at 800...Betty Lloyds are regularly at around 350.How many of the diff mix came out? Only two test pressings I thought ?
Pete S Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 Only two test pressings I thought ? Must be more than that, I"ve had two, the white label hand written (different mix) ones 1
davidwapples Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 i had the royal esquires for £35 then sold for 50 trades joe valentine for £100 and sold for 120 plus 40 cdr's george morton for £50 then traded it to a dealer on here in a swap for a record he said was worth 50 hmmmmmmmm so ended up about even plus some cds
Guest sharmo 1 Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 and america is a big old place...naturally still plenty of time to unearth more gems....more time than we all have....george pepp is not safe... why would it be ,theres still every chance boxes could be found. same as any other rare title. I agree Dave the only problem with a record like George Pepp and other new Orleans area releases is that so much was destroyed during the hurricane that struck.
Dave Pinch Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 I agree Dave the only problem with a record like George Pepp and other new Orleans area releases is that so much was destroyed during the hurricane that struck. a few water damaged labels certainly lol
Guest sharmo 1 Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 a few water damaged labels certainly lol On a serious note really anything can happen many years ago when I had a skip hire business I was talking to a driver who had driven a skip lorry for a company in Burton on Trent. A skip was ordered for the back of a shop that had been boarded up for years , it was being cleared for renovation . When he picked the skip up it was full of boxed original toys from the fifty's and sixty's including train sets and all that kind of thing he took a few and the rest went to land fill. You just don't know ,anything can happen with a little luck .
tosspot Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 Bang on Bob. Just wish the 'junkers' would turn up a box of George Pepps... Proves there are still hoards of mint stock to be found 50 years down the road but this has to end sometime. I'm with you on this one, I'd love a George Pepp in any condition 1
Jordirip Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 John Washington - Daddy Teddybear. Small Society on Cadde. Both of these fell dramatically in price after I'd bought them.
Dobber Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 Ann sexton you been gone to long on impell seems to be turning up now? 2
Russ Vickers Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 Oxford Knights...some thought and still do until today the find was actually a repress. Four Tracks...paid a heavy sum for mine about a month or two before they were hitting the bay. ouch. Dream Team.... traded against my mint George Blackwell PLUS cash ... doh! Thankfully found another mint George Blackwell soon after. Seem to remember the remaining stock first went to Shifty who was the first to cut down the price to 100 GBP. Still remember the conversation I had with him about it at that time.. Think amongst the biggest contenders for the title of biggest fall from grace have to be the four vandals though ;) Hi Marc, see my post re Oxford Knights. Dream Team headed back stateside pretty swiftish from Shifty... Russ
boba Posted February 1, 2014 Posted February 1, 2014 John Washington - Daddy Teddybear. Small Society on Cadde. Both of these fell dramatically in price after I'd bought them. I paid $300 on the john washington so lost, small society only went down a little. i don't feel bad about either, it's a gamble either way and I've gotten lots of rare things where the seller really only had 2 copies.
paultp Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 i guess it's just a technicality because it's effectively the same, but the neither the four tracks, clara hardy, or willie pickett were "tracked". The four tracks and clara hardy were just uncovered by junkers and dumped on the market. The willie picketts were a result of funkyou's detroit operation hitting an old record store stock. So in none of these cases did someone track the producer, label owner, etc., it was just a case of bulk being found. The guy who found the Four Tracks just bunged them on ebay with all the other stuff he had found (inc Valtones -Some Good), he had no idea what he had. If the first hadn't been bid up to 800+ dollars or so, they could have been had for peanuts -he started everything off at 4.99 I think. After the first he the listed one a week starting at 600 and did some private deals as well. I don't think he had more than a 25 box of the four tracks and they have all disappeared now. 1
Dave Pinch Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 Ann sexton you been gone to long on impell seems to be turning up now? its 12 months since the ann sextons turned up via 2 ebay sellers..they had around 25 copies each plus a load of gpldwax 45`s percy milem etc....long gone now tho i think a guy in the uk bought a few copies from one of the ebay sellers
Dave Pinch Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 The guy who found the Four Tracks just bunged them on ebay with all the other stuff he had found (inc Valtones -Some Good), he had no idea what he had. If the first hadn't been bid up to 800+ dollars or so, they could have been had for peanuts -he started everything off at 4.99 I think. After the first he the listed one a week starting at 600 and did some private deals as well. I don't think he had more than a 25 box of the four tracks and they have all disappeared now. the 1st copy that spivens put up went for $3300...he had a hundred copies at least...my mate got 10 off him when i put him onto them as i couldnt afford it.....but i did end up gettin a copy for free as a favour returned...which was nice 2
Frankie Crocker Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 The guy who found the Four Tracks just bunged them on ebay with all the other stuff he had found (inc Valtones -Some Good), he had no idea what he had. If the first hadn't been bid up to 800+ dollars or so, they could have been had for peanuts -he started everything off at 4.99 I think. After the first he the listed one a week starting at 600 and did some private deals as well. I don't think he had more than a 25 box of the four tracks and they have all disappeared now. Popsike reveals that 41 copies were sold directly by 'M Spivens' (of Howell, Michigan). I suspect many more were sold as Second Chance offers. On the last day of the auctions when six copies were up for grabs, I was well pleased to win two copies, especially as I'd been outbid several times in previous skirmishes. The hoard must have numbered 100-200 copies with the going rate averaging at c$550. As Richie Rosen offered me his copy for $2,000 and subsequently $3,000, I was delighted to part with $1,065 for a pair. Massive thanks to Mark Bicknell for spinning the record at The 100 Club and turning me onto one of the best sounds ever.
boba Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 The guy who found the Four Tracks just bunged them on ebay with all the other stuff he had found (inc Valtones -Some Good), he had no idea what he had. If the first hadn't been bid up to 800+ dollars or so, they could have been had for peanuts -he started everything off at 4.99 I think. After the first he the listed one a week starting at 600 and did some private deals as well. I don't think he had more than a 25 box of the four tracks and they have all disappeared now. there was no way it wasn't going to get bid up though with a record like that, even poorly listed. i was one of the first to get it from him, i actually paid $900 and was super excited at the time. still don't feel bad, i don't think it's worth less or at least much less than that now.
boba Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 also, like a week or two before he started listing them, a trashed copy went for like $2500
Dave Pinch Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 also, like a week or two before he started listing them, a trashed copy went for like $2500 that must have been heartbreaking now with hindsight........i actually know the guy who bought the 1st copy from him....over 2000 uk pounds.... if you buy rare and expensive records theres a chance you`ll get a bad deal at some point..we all must have..
boba Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 that must have been heartbreaking now with hindsight........i actually know the guy who bought the 1st copy from him....over 2000 uk pounds.... if you buy rare and expensive records theres a chance you`ll get a bad deal at some point..we all must have.. it's always a gamble. honestly people are too cautious and gossipy. i guess if you're going to spend 4 figures you have to be more cautious but i've mentioned before people think i have 100 copies if i have 2. a bunch of people missed out on some good records for cheap from me in the past because of gossip. if you're spending a few hundred, have the chance to get a good deal, and there's the chance you're $100 behind, i'd take the chance. i got 3 copies of those Trips on Soundville that were out there a couple of years ago, i wish i had bought more. 1
Agentsmith Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 They were going as low as £70 last year...I got one.. tim brown had a 25 count about 3 years ago now and was selling them for £50...at the time i remember it selling for something like £250....so that must have knocked a hole in it prematurely.
Dave Pinch Posted February 2, 2014 Posted February 2, 2014 it's always a gamble. honestly people are too cautious and gossipy. i guess if you're going to spend 4 figures you have to be more cautious but i've mentioned before people think i have 100 copies if i have 2. a bunch of people missed out on some good records for cheap from me in the past because of gossip. if you're spending a few hundred, have the chance to get a good deal, and there's the chance you're $100 behind, i'd take the chance. i got 3 copies of those Trips on Soundville that were out there a couple of years ago, i wish i had bought more. i wish i could afford to buy one copy let alone 3
boba Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 i wish i could afford to buy one copy let alone 3 you could if you got it at the prices i got them. someone has quantity of that icemen they're putting on ebay now, there's another one...
sepia Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Tony Tisovic of St Louis made the find back in the days of Goldmine and Discoveries. When I went to his house, he was down to his last two so I bought them at a hefty price. A few months later, Don Parker phoned up and offered me one. More popped up on major dealers' lists and in collectors' sales boxes so I sold the spare copy for what I bought it for. The stock came from the label owner's family, and having followed the saga quite closely, would estimate the haul to be at least one 25 count box but no more than two. There were no other good quality, good condition records at Tony's house despite there being box-loads - he still turns up the occasional record but the St Louis market has been cornered by another dealer who is letting out quantity finds in auction lists. glad I noticed your post as couldn't remember who it was,lol. I heard @ the time it was a 25 count?...they tried to be sly first,before letting the cat out of the bag...in discoveries that month,they had 3 vg/vg+ copies for sale...they prob did sell them as people was looking/wanting copies @ the time(was the first thing we noticed them having 3 for sale that month,cause couldn't find copies going about & here was 3,lol) ...thot it was strange tho them putting up 3 copies for sale at the same time,if in demand you would put up one at a time?...so im thinking if they had the only 25 count box,they could of waited till sold the vg copies over a few months,then on to the box copies...so were they scared at the time,that others had boxes or copies & better sell vg ones fast for top dollar before word got around?...trying to remember how much they wanted for vg copies,$275 or $425 each...round about the same time I found the guy selling copies of "excuses / trick bag"...told my mates & one had just ordered a copy of goldmines list that morning,lol...he cancelled it & we got copies from the states...what he was paying in £'s it was same amount but in $'s...think excuses came from label owner,dont know how many,but we had to phone guy we bought them from,as 1 or 2 had bad storage warps.said he would exchange them...think we did & they had warps also but not as bad,so called him again & he said they were all mostly the same,wasnt very friendly either,lol(good sign that they were in storage for years,lol)...noticed on ebay 2 years back someone selling,little Richie / just another heartache,sam fletcher / think it over & one on the boss label?.looked back & had sold a couple of each at just under yearly intervals apart,all mint condition...tried to hide it,but cant fool me,lol. 1
sepia Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 What about Betty Lloyd, crashed, but is gradually increasing in value again over the years... Russ my mate bought a copy for £50 or £60...then seen it on every list for £50/40 donwards...he thot a shit load must of turned up & he sold it straight away for a £10 loss,worried he couldn't sell it later & would lose more money on it...we didn't know @ the time,dave withers(150 copies) & then tim ashibende(25 or 50?) turned them up in the states & then was on dealers lists(that news hadnt reached Scotland in time,bloody pigeons,lol)...they did seem to disappear from lists,just as fast as they arrived. also seemed to be a few carol andersons / taking my mind of love / whip on lists aswell for £70/75(always in mint condition)...am I right in thinking a few of them turned up at one point?,..was always going to buy it,but something else came up for sale I wanted same times ,thot could buy carol anytime as was on lists monthly(mostly Fortnum & spencer's) but could of been same copies all the time & just hadn't sold as wasn't as in demand then & most dealers had same tunes for sale,not enough buyers so would get one next time,but when got round to buying a copy,wasnt on lists when wanted it,lol...
sepia Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Oxford Knights was a weird one, when the quantity turned up, it didnt seem to effect the price too much.... I have a theory on that one....I think that they had been around some years, I do not think that they had been done recently to rip people off, I think they were a repress from the original stampers done back in the day, but were never distributed/sold. My thoughts are this, one of the group members had a small quantity (in a wardrobe apparently ?), a prominent record dealer used to get 2 or 3 of these each year & drip them out (I know this to be true). Then another dealer, from the Beach scene, also discovered this source, he then completely flooded the market, which was when the scare started, & the rumours of a re press/boot started. I think the original dealer who found the copies, genuinly thought these were from the original press & sold them as such for some years, including to other dealers, when the rumours started, they were then retiscent to substantiate the rumour because they didnt want people to think they had deliberatly duped others. This is purely part speculation on my part, based on conversations I have had with people over the years since this occured, & is just a theory & may not be (exactly) how things happened. Russ first heard oxford knights on a very old adey pierce sales tape,that must of been a good while before it got picked up on?. was a while after that I heard some turned up...am I wrong in thinking I was told at the time,there was a slight difference you could only see if had an already circulated copy,next to a turned up copy...I could be thinking of another record,so sorry if wrong,lol.
Soul-slider Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 On a serious note really anything can happen many years ago when I had a skip hire business I was talking to a driver who had driven a skip lorry for a company in Burton on Trent. A skip was ordered for the back of a shop that had been boarded up for years , it was being cleared for renovation . When he picked the skip up it was full of boxed original toys from the fifty's and sixty's including train sets and all that kind of thing he took a few and the rest went to land fill. You just don't know ,anything can happen with a little luck . Oooh, heaven! Boxed Japanese tin Robots, Action Man, Subbuteo......
Jason S Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 J.D Hall on J.D.H is a strange one. Still considered by many to be a hard one on original the pressing that surfaced via J.D himself a few years back (that is markedly different from copies around before then) seems to have confused things a bit. Once an expensive £300+ sold the other week was £15 though doesn't say if it's the 'fuzzy edged' copy or not. Still, £15 down from £300 represents a bit of a trip!
Russ Vickers Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 first heard oxford knights on a very old adey pierce sales tape,that must of been a good while before it got picked up on?. was a while after that I heard some turned up...am I wrong in thinking I was told at the time,there was a slight difference you could only see if had an already circulated copy,next to a turned up copy...I could be thinking of another record,so sorry if wrong,lol. I'm pretty sure the difference is that one press has a matt label & t'other has shiny...shiny was the batch that turned up I think, I've never compared my copy to others, but may take it round to Dave Abbotts next week to compare his with mine...gulp !!! best Russ
Russ Vickers Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Think the first Clarence Townsend turned up via Adey P too, certainly my old copy came from him in a round about way I believe, thats done the opposite & soared in price...bloody typical, I love that record & had mine whilst it was still covered up, sold it a few years later, OMG probably 1K now...why the f*ck did I do that lol...oh well, no regrets (thats what I keep telling myself)...onwards & upwards to the next one... Best Russ
sepia Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 that's what it was russ,cheers. knew I wasn't going mad,lol.
Guest sharmo 1 Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 Oooh, heaven! Boxed Japanese tin Robots, Action Man, Subbuteo...... I really don't know what they were he just said it was a ten tonne skip full of unopened toy's .he took a few and the rest were tipped at Lount tip near ashby the whole lot were crushed under the metal wheels of an excavator in minutes. the point that I was making was that anything can happen it could have been easily a record shop with all the Statesides and Tamla Motowns ect , ect. .Regards Simon.
Mick Boyle Posted February 3, 2014 Posted February 3, 2014 The Masqueraders - That's The Same Thing I think this one used to fetch about 2k We bought a couple of copies from (forgive me if i get the names wrong) band member Tex but if memory serves me correctly they were owned by Harold. We paid $500 each They used to give them away free to the crowd at there performances. We met up and got our copies about 7 years ago Wonder how many they let go
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