Fall From Grace

[hovis09]

I was reading an old record collector the other day and it had a list of the top twenty most expensive records at that time(1991} and all the usual suspects were there FRANK WILSON, DENIS EDWARDS, INSPIRATIONS, JOHNNY HONEYCUTT, ETC all rated at over a £1000 back then but what caught my eye was DANNY MOORE SOMEBODY NEW rated at £1200 as there ever been a record that has fallen so much in value . or even one that has shot up so much in value

Edited January 28, 2014 by hovis09

[Petebangor]

Royal Esquires - Ain't gonna run - Prix

[Guest sharmo 1]

Royal Esquires - Ain't gonna run - Prix

I can concur with that one paid one and a half grand for it about five years before the big find.

[Russoul1]

I can concur with that one paid one and a half grand for it about five years before the big find.

that's a nightmare, but for the 5 years you had it and played it out I bet it was £1500 well spent, still a great tune imo

[Ernie Andrews]

have my mates copy here he paid a grand for!

[Guest sharmo 1]

that's a nightmare, but for the 5 years you had it and played it out I bet it was £1500 well spent, still a great tune imo

I'll tell you what no lie or leg pull it emptied the floor a few times , I played it at Prestatyn and it emptied the floor then I played the Ravins and got a totally empty floor .

[Petebangor]

Frederick Hymes is another

[Russoul1]

does the dreamteam full under this category, also clara hardy?

[Geeselad]

just wondered if the danny moore would even go today if found as new discovery? still love it myself, whatever the price, but its well out of place with the current sound imho.

incidentally how many DM's actually turned up? I'm thinking just a couple of hundred, highlighting just how small a market NS actually is.

Edited January 29, 2014 by geeselad

[Frankie Crocker]

just wondered if the danny monday would even go today if found as new discovery? still love it myself, whatever the price, but its well out of place with the current sound imho.

incidentally how many DM's actually turned up? I'm thinking just a couple of hundred, highlighting just how small a market NS actually is.

Danny Moore rather than Danny Monday. Tracked down by a New Jersey sleuth and shipped in bulk to the Potteries. A few punters had their fingers burned on this one, myself included. Same partnership brokered the Dream Team on Gregory I think. Richie Rosen had quantity of Frederick Hymes III and was behind the flood of Reverend George Mortons, fingers burned again... On the plus side, it is good to see the trackers uncovering hoards of good records such as Four Tracks, Clara Hardy, Willie Pickett etc - the down side is paying too much for a copy in the hurry to be at the front of the queue. Trick is, get to know the dealers and their M.O. so the records can be sourced for a reasonable outlay. And if someone says 'this is the last copy', maybe think twice before handing over the cash.

[Wiggyflat]

Jesse Davis Hang On In There....a box load found and still being dripped out on ebay.

[Dave Rimmer]

Danny Moore rather than Danny Monday. Tracked down by a New Jersey sleuth and shipped in bulk to the Potteries. A few punters had their fingers burned on this one, myself included. Same partnership brokered the Dream Team on Gregory I think. Richie Rosen had quantity of Frederick Hymes III and was behind the flood of Reverend George Mortons, fingers burned again... On the plus side, it is good to see the trackers uncovering hoards of good records such as Four Tracks, Clara Hardy, Willie Pickett etc - the down side is paying too much for a copy in the hurry to be at the front of the queue. Trick is, get to know the dealers and their M.O. so the records can be sourced for a reasonable outlay. And if someone says 'this is the last copy', maybe think twice before handing over the cash.

 

I'm fairly sure Greg and Tim had no involvement in the Dream Team.

[KevH]

Hi Hovis,search for Biggest Price Drop on here,Danny Moore gets mention - Spooky.!!!

[Harry Crosby]

EJ CHANDLER-I CAN`T STAND TO LOSE YOU ?

[Mick Boyle]

joe vallentine has dropped in price and there one for sale in most boxes 

I sold a dreamteam to a guy in the states and he told me about his mate 

who had swapped two copies of Ruby Sherry for one dreamteam

He wasn't a happy bunny 

[Barry]

I can concur with that one paid one and a half grand for it.

 

...and I still think it's worth every penny.

[Geeselad]

Danny Moore rather than Danny Monday. Tracked down by a New Jersey sleuth and shipped in bulk to the Potteries. A few punters had their fingers burned on this one, myself included. Same partnership brokered the Dream Team on Gregory I think. Richie Rosen had quantity of Frederick Hymes III and was behind the flood of Reverend George Mortons, fingers burned again... On the plus side, it is good to see the trackers uncovering hoards of good records such as Four Tracks, Clara Hardy, Willie Pickett etc - the down side is paying too much for a copy in the hurry to be at the front of the queue. Trick is, get to know the dealers and their M.O. so the records can be sourced for a reasonable outlay. And if someone says 'this is the last copy', maybe think twice before handing over the cash.

yep sorry, moore- somebody new- though danny monday is ironicaly tim's favorite tune!

[Jordirip]

Frederick Hymes is another

 

Although this does seem to be creeping back up in value and desireability.

[Mark R]

Mind & Matter......

 

I remember someone fairly well know saying to me once "I paid £1,200 for mine and I ain't gonna see much of that back!"

 

There's always a flip side to the coin......the "find" was great news for mortals like me!

 

 

 

Cheers,

Mark R

[Jordirip]

Mind & Matter......

 

I remember someone fairly well know saying to me once "I paid £1,200 for mine and I ain't gonna see much of that back!"

 

There's always a flip side to the coin......the "find" was great news for mortals like me!

 

 

 

Cheers,

Mark R

 

Yes, i remember when I first heard the Codfather play this in Dudley last century, what a record, I never thought I'd own a copy, until the the batch was found and then it was possible.

[Russ Vickers]

Dream Team was Andy Rix & Rob Thomas (not sure about Rob's involvement).  Lew Stanley ended up with all the stock in the end, but thats another story...Label owner ended up having pretty much the whole run.

 

Russ

[Russ Vickers]

What about Betty Lloyd, crashed, but is gradually increasing in value again over the years...  

 

Russ

[Mark R]

Yes, i remember when I first heard the Codfather play this in Dudley last century, what a record, I never thought I'd own a copy, until the the batch was found and then it was possible.

 

 

Makes the thread title a bit of a misnomer mate doesn't it?  "Fall from grace" probably a bit strong and infers a new found inferiority!!  We should be clear the thread is JUST about values, and not quality in the grooves.

 

M&M would be as expensive as they come if price were based on tune quality alone!

 

 

 

Cheers,

Mark R

[Russ Vickers]

If ya want 'hot' tunes to DJ with there's always an element of risk, but that's all part of the fun really, you know the score when ya buy, you just have to use your experience & knowledge to weigh up the risk...it also happens t'other way, when you buy records you love, which then some times increase in value....to me, its not about the value or rareity, its about how good the record is, sometimes theyre cheap & sometimes theyre not...its about wheelin n dealin n diggin with a lot of luck thrown in...

 

Russ

[Pete S]

What about Betty Lloyd, crashed, but is gradually increasing in value again over the years...  

 

Russ

 

Anglo had so many Betty Lloyds that if you ordered something and it was out of stock, they'd put that in as a replacement and hope you'd keep it, I got one instead of a Jimmy Seals when JS was about £70, Betty came down to as low as £30 at one point, must be £200 again now.

[Mace]

Anglo had so many Betty Lloyds that if you ordered something and it was out of stock, they'd put that in as a replacement and hope you'd keep it, I got one instead of a Jimmy Seals when JS was about £70, Betty came down to as low as £30 at one point, must be £200 again now.

 

 £350+ now......

[Pete S]

 £350+ now......

 

[Guest MrC]

Anglo had so many Betty Lloyds that if you ordered something and it was out of stock, they'd put that in as a replacement and hope you'd keep it, I got one instead of a Jimmy Seals when JS was about £70, Betty came down to as low as £30 at one point, must be £200 again now.

£350-£400

[Corbett80]

Although this does seem to be creeping back up in value and desireability.

 

 

I've noticed this too mate. It's fecking brilliant which may (should) have a lot to do with it

[Guest sharmo 1]

joe vallentine has dropped in price and there one for sale in most boxes 

I sold a dreamteam to a guy in the states and he told me about his mate 

who had swapped two copies of Ruby Sherry for one dreamteam

He wasn't a happy bunny 

Hi Mick the Joe Vallentines are just about gone now , that'll go up again you watch.

[Guest Polyvelts]

Although this does seem to be creeping back up in value and desireability.

What did it peak at ?

[Mick Boyle]

Hi Mick the Joe Vallentines are just about gone now , that'll go up again you watch.

Hi Sy

You can buy mine then (only joking)

I remember the worry when Montclairs -hey you and Greater Experience turned up 

in small quantities, but they soon shot up to there original value and higher 

Problem is when something is found in count boxes you never now if all the

find is being put out there or drip feed to the eager punters.

Panic sets in - and we all end up blaming you 

 

See ya soon    MIck

[Guest sharmo 1]

Hi Sy

You can buy mine then (only joking)

I remember the worry when Montclairs -hey you and Greater Experience turned up 

in small quantities, but they soon shot up to there original value and higher 

Problem is when something is found in count boxes you never now if all the

find is being put out there or drip feed to the eager punters.

Panic sets in - and we all end up blaming you 

 

See ya soon    MIck

give your sweet girl a peck on the nose from me , you Sir I will deal with when I see you .

[Jordirip]

What did it peak at ?

 

Whatever it started at. I first remember Henry Atkinson having it and it was a big, big rareity. Then when stock was found ithe price came down and down, and with the confusion and rumours of boots/re-presses, people seemed to lose confidence in the record. Now though, it seems to be be making a resurgence which I'm glad about as it's a killer tune.

[Frankie Crocker]

I'm fairly sure Greg and Tim had no involvement in the Dream Team.

Dave, thanks for the heads up - Russ confirms this. Dream Team was in every other sales box at one stage with speculators moving on multiple purchases.

[Russ Vickers]

Oxford Knights was a weird one, when the quantity turned up, it didnt seem to effect the price too much....

 

I have a theory on that one....I think that they had been around some years, I do not think that they had been done recently to rip people off, I think they were a repress from the original stampers done back in the day, but were never distributed/sold. 

 

My thoughts are this, one of the group members had a small quantity (in a wardrobe apparently ?), a prominent record dealer used to get 2 or 3 of these each year & drip them out (I know this to be true).  Then another dealer, from the Beach scene, also discovered this source, he then completely flooded the market, which was when the scare started, & the rumours of a re press/boot started.

 

I think the original dealer who found the copies, genuinly thought these were from the original press & sold them as such for some years, including to other dealers, when the rumours started, they were then retiscent to substantiate the rumour because they didnt want people to think they had deliberatly duped others.

 

This is purely part speculation on my part, based on conversations I have had with people over the years since this occured, & is just a theory & may not be (exactly) how things happened.

 

Russ

[Wiggyflat]

Hi Mick the Joe Vallentines are just about gone now , that'll go up again you watch.

They were  going as low as £70 last year...I got one..

[paultp]

I actually like bulk record finds, I'd never have a mint Danny Moore otherwise. Somebody found a box of tony Hestor - Just can't leave you demos and I bought one of those too, think it was $150 - absolutely mint. Wish I'd bought one of the Four Tracks on Mandingo, just love the tune, a couple of people bought two and sold the spare to pay for the first.

Please keep digging and find a couple of boxes of Chico lamarr!

[Guest JIM BARRY]

I got burned with Danny Moore, paid £700 for it, even though John manship warned mein so many words. Then not long after I was offered the montclairs hey you , I gave Henry Atkinson a deposit of £25 then was told there was a big find, and told Henry to forget it and keep the deposit....funnily enough I had a oxford knights from butch snd made a good profit when I sold up.

[Guest Matt Male]

I'll tell you what no lie or leg pull it emptied the floor a few times , I played it at Prestatyn and it emptied the floor then I played the Ravins and got a totally empty floor .

 

 

If only they'd find the Ravins in the same quantities as the Royal Esquires.

 

I can dream...

[Guest sharmo 1]

If only they'd find the Ravins in the same quantities as the Royal Esquires.

 

I can dream...

I don't think that would happen as I was told Dave Hamilton just had a few as give aways maybe Ady Croasdale or Gilly may know more . Happily I picked another up last year for 400 euros .

[Jordirip]

I got burned with Danny Moore, paid £700 for it, even though John manship warned mein so many words. Then not long after I was offered the montclairs hey you , I gave Henry Atkinson a deposit of £25 then was told there was a big find, and told Henry to forget it and keep the deposit....funnily enough I had a oxford knights from butch snd made a good profit when I sold up.

 

I never knew there was a big find of Montclairs. I know it's not a real rareity because it was such a sizeable local hit, but I never knew of a quantity find.

[Guest JIM BARRY]

I only heard some turned up jordi....perhaps big find was over stating it..

Edited January 30, 2014 by JIM BARRY

[Frankie Crocker]

I never knew there was a big find of Montclairs. I know it's not a real rareity because it was such a sizeable local hit, but I never knew of a quantity find.

Tony Tisovic of St Louis made the find back in the days of Goldmine and Discoveries. When I went to his house, he was down to his last two so I bought them at a hefty price. A few months later, Don Parker phoned up and offered me one. More popped up on major dealers' lists and in collectors' sales boxes so I sold the spare copy for what I bought it for. The stock came from the label owner's family, and having followed the saga quite closely, would estimate the haul to be at least one 25 count box but no more than two. There were no other good quality, good condition records at Tony's house despite there being box-loads - he still turns up the occasional record but the St Louis market has been cornered by another dealer who is letting out quantity finds in auction lists.

[Frankie Crocker]

I got burned with Danny Moore, paid £700 for it, even though John manship warned mein so many words. Then not long after I was offered the montclairs hey you , I gave Henry Atkinson a deposit of £25 then was told there was a big find, and told Henry to forget it and keep the deposit....funnily enough I had a oxford knights from butch snd made a good profit when I sold up.

Lew Stanley came up with the Oxford Knights. Fantastic record and muchos credit to Ion for bringing it to Londoners' attention. The stock was in pristine condition like it was pressed yesterday, prices duly fell but try finding one now...

[Frankie Crocker]

Oxford Knights was a weird one, when the quantity turned up, it didnt seem to effect the price too much....

 

I have a theory on that one....I think that they had been around some years, I do not think that they had been done recently to rip people off, I think they were a repress from the original stampers done back in the day, but were never distributed/sold. 

 

My thoughts are this, one of the group members had a small quantity (in a wardrobe apparently ?), a prominent record dealer used to get 2 or 3 of these each year & drip them out (I know this to be true).  Then another dealer, from the Beach scene, also discovered this source, he then completely flooded the market, which was when the scare started, & the rumours of a re press/boot started.

 

I think the original dealer who found the copies, genuinly thought these were from the original press & sold them as such for some years, including to other dealers, when the rumours started, they were then retiscent to substantiate the rumour because they didnt want people to think they had deliberatly duped others.

 

This is purely part speculation on my part, based on conversations I have had with people over the years since this occured, & is just a theory & may not be (exactly) how things happened.

 

Russ

Interesting conjecture Russ. Like your good self, I am somewhat baffled by this business. My shiny label copy sounds the same as any matt label, and as it is clearly stamped, I am fairly content, but you can't help feeling you paid too much for the record, brilliant though it is...

[Russ Vickers]

Lew Stanley came up with the Oxford Knights. Fantastic record and muchos credit to Ion for bringing it to Londoners' attention. The stock was in pristine condition like it was pressed yesterday, prices duly fell but try finding one now...

 

I've been racking my brains to remember what Ion had the Oxford Knights covered up as, I'm in Baghdad right now & cant check the tape Ion gave me with this on to check...anyone ??? 

 

Russ

[boba]

Danny Moore rather than Danny Monday. Tracked down by a New Jersey sleuth and shipped in bulk to the Potteries. A few punters had their fingers burned on this one, myself included. Same partnership brokered the Dream Team on Gregory I think. Richie Rosen had quantity of Frederick Hymes III and was behind the flood of Reverend George Mortons, fingers burned again... On the plus side, it is good to see the trackers uncovering hoards of good records such as Four Tracks, Clara Hardy, Willie Pickett etc - the down side is paying too much for a copy in the hurry to be at the front of the queue. Trick is, get to know the dealers and their M.O. so the records can be sourced for a reasonable outlay. And if someone says 'this is the last copy', maybe think twice before handing over the cash.

 

i guess it's just a technicality because it's effectively the same, but the neither the four tracks, clara hardy, or willie pickett were "tracked". The four tracks and clara hardy were just uncovered by junkers and dumped on the market. The willie picketts were a result of funkyou's detroit operation hitting an old record store stock. So in none of these cases did someone track the producer, label owner, etc., it was just a case of bulk being found.

[Guest sharmo 1]

I've been racking my brains to remember what Ion had the Oxford Knights covered up as, I'm in Baghdad right now & cant check the tape Ion gave me with this on to check...anyone ??? 

 

Russ

Keep your head down and stay safe out there Russ.

[Tony Smith]

I've been racking my brains to remember what Ion had the Oxford Knights covered up as, I'm in Baghdad right now & cant check the tape Ion gave me with this on to check...anyone ??? 

 

Russ

Bernard Williams?