Who Is Behind All These Reissues? Please Tell Me So I Can Shove

[Guest sharmo 1]

OK well I can tell you from 1st hand experience that - and I'm talking vinyl here not cd's - up until the cd age, Bowie vinyl bootlegs were done in quantities of 100 to 1000 on a first run, then they would be done as and when required.  The majority had runs of less than 500 copies.  I supplied tapes for at least half a dozen and none were done in quantities of more than 500.  I even sat and hand numbered certain ones!

in addition to this loads were pressed by a company in Austrailia  called something like blue pig , Robert Saunders used to have hundreds of titles by everyone and sold them in carparks at festivals .Probably the guy's you dealt with pete were  doing a few but I'll tell you now in Holland let's say the Dutch ----'- A------s  ( massive global motorcycle gang who you all know but I won't mention publicly ) were doing everything .In bigger runs than a hundred and they went through their network all over Europe.

[Pete S]

Which one's were these Pete ? as in the seventy's and late eighty's I saw bowie and pistols and Costellos all over Europe at the same time thing's like no future U.k at very bazare in Leicester in maybe 25 box's then saw same amount in paris 2 day's later then even saw them in Jersey the next week . there were massive amounts of Bowie , lowe , Floyd , clash ect all over market stalls in both Amsterdam and Rotterdam including Banshees Elephant fair ect , these white label things were all over Europe any big band or artist you like I even saw them in a shop in Inverness .I saw a 100 of the three Devo bootlegs and 100 0f both Lou Reed and Velvet underground and a massive amount of Iggy Pop stuff. so if that were thr few I saw where else ? I walked into an underground shop in Dussledorf and saw loads of Tangerine dream alternative cuts of the Tangram album on ten inch white label bootlegs.

 

Things like No Future UK and Wembley Wizard were actually pressed by the BPI, No Future UK was originally called Spunk, Wembley Wizard was originally called Don't Touch That Dial and was a Japanese bootleg, I did have that but it is ultra rare as opposed to the Wizard one.  I've only ever seen that one copy in the flesh.  I'd have thought they must have pressed at least 1000 of those each (No Future & Wembley)

[jocko]

All this ovo thing is reasonably recent, it seems to be as people have got older, with a bit more money. early all nighters 60s/70s all played boots and emidiscs, didnt matter then, why is it so important now? I collect vinyl, and original vinyl at that, though I do have a few reissues.

 

But if you had went around telling everyone you were a big DJ with a box of boots by mid 70's surely you would have had as much ridicule then.

I agree the original point of the argument has been well lost, with in my opinion some of the anti's being as daft as the pros in their arguments.

[Guest sharmo 1]

We did mainly 45's, Shadowman EP, Thats A Promise 45, several Italian colour vinyl ones came from us, I used to have the most fantastic sources back then, never manufactured anything as never had the money but was able to supply loads of first generation tapes.  I am going back a long time now though, peaked around 1986 I'd say.  I used to run a Bowie magazine just dealing with the underground stuff, someone lent me a full set recently and I can't believe what I knew and what I had back then.  My ex wife got everything.

bloody hell Pete that must have been exciting listening to the tapes for a first time I remember the Italian one's there was a 10 inch German one as well .

[Pete S]

in addition to this loads were pressed by a company in Austrailia  called something like blue pig , Robert Saunders used to have hundreds of titles by everyone and sold them in carparks at festivals .Probably the guy's you dealt with pete were  doing a few but I'll tell you now in Holland let's say the Dutch ----'- A------s  ( massive global motorcycle gang who you all know but I won't mention publicly ) were doing everything .In bigger runs than a hundred and they went through their network all over Europe.

 

Was it Swinging Pig?  Those were European, I think they were Scandinavian.

[Labeat]

What I'm trying to say is, you say we should be going out here there and everywhere - I've done all that, I did it from the age of 15 upwards, I'm approaching my 54th birthday and I don't want to go out all night, listen to loud music and take drugs, I want to play with my kids, watch Match Of The Day and drink beer!  It's a young man's game.  I don't mean to insult anyone by saying they should grow up but seriously, 50+ years old people taking speed on a weekly basis, come on...

But hang on, you can record MOTD and you can consume alcohol at venues but by all means stay in... if it makes you happy.

The mention of chemicals should not be aired on this forum, that's loose talk.

I will agree wholeheartedly on spending quality time with your kids... I love scrapping with my grandkids..

[Guest sharmo 1]

Things like No Future UK and Wembley Wizard were actually pressed by the BPI, No Future UK was originally called Spunk, Wembley Wizard was originally called Don't Touch That Dial and was a Japanese bootleg, I did have that but it is ultra rare as opposed to the Wizard one.  I've only ever seen that one copy in the flesh.  I'd have thought they must have pressed at least 1000 of those each (No Future & Wembley)

I have both no future U.k and Spunk .

[Pete S]

bloody hell Pete that must have been exciting listening to the tapes for a first time I remember the Italian one's there was a 10 inch German one as well .

 

Yeah it was a worldwide network back then, if you managed to get a tape no-one else had you could get fantastic trades, I remember someone giving me his own recording of Bowie as Ziggy at the Top Rank in Hanley 1973, I got about £500 worth of vinyl trades for a cassette, I also used to have a mate who would copy things from the BBC vaults, most have now been reshown but I had a lot of TOTP which still hasn't been rebroadcast - I lent those out and never got them back.

[Pete S]

I have both no future U.k and Spunk .

 

First press of Spunk is rare, you probably know this but they were actually done by Dave Goodman who produced the sessions, he put it out before NMTB was released.

[Guest sharmo 1]

Was it Swinging Pig?  Those were European, I think they were Scandinavian.

It was definatly Austrailia as that's were Rob had them delivered from He used to get a little nervous before they arrived but were cleared by customs as marked demos the this guy from Northampton would deliver the covers seperatly lot of A.C/D.C stuff but Led Zep and strangely sparks !!! God knows who had them .

[Guest sharmo 1]

Yeah it was a worldwide network back then, if you managed to get a tape no-one else had you could get fantastic trades, I remember someone giving me his own recording of Bowie as Ziggy at the Top Rank in Hanley 1973, I got about £500 worth of vinyl trades for a cassette, I also used to have a mate who would copy things from the BBC vaults, most have now been reshown but I had a lot of TOTP which still hasn't been rebroadcast - I lent those out and never got them back.

I'm only slightly jealous Pete seriously it must have been great times , lucky bleeder.

[Guest sharmo 1]

First press of Spunk is rare, you probably know this but they were actually done by Dave Goodman who produced the sessions, he put it out before NMTB was released.

Didn't he end up doing the Rich kids stuff later and that dave goodman and friends stuff ?

[Labeat]

This is a second family so it's a second chance for me...

There was no second chance for the Deadbeats

[Peter99]

I think there are 7 differing discussions going on, including this one!

And I'm still bored stiff!

 

Peter

 

[Pete S]

Didn't he end up doing the Rich kids stuff later and that dave goodman and friends stuff ?

 

Not sure if he did the Rich Kids but he kept putting out dodgy 45's like the one you quote above (Justifiable Homicide) and the Ex Pistols, I think he did the Cash Pussies record as well with the voice of Sid Vicious on it.  He put out a brilliant dvd about 5/6 years back, no Pistols music but fantastic behind the scenes stuff. He died a couple of years ago.

[Pete S]

I'm only slightly jealous Pete seriously it must have been great times , lucky bleeder.

 

Fortunaterly a lot of these audio tapes are available from fans sites to download nowadays.  I saw 13 shows on the Glass Spider tour (all but one were rubbish!) and I recorded every show, but as I say, the ex wife got all the Bowie stuff.  

Edited January 27, 2014 by Pete S

[Jason S]

Recently had the pleasure of dealing with the legend that is Roy Roberts on licensing a couple of his tracks for a 45 that finally came out last Tuesday. One side is a 70s modern dancer only previously found on a Country album he made in the mid 70s, the other a discoey thing that did get a 7" release back in the day. Tried to find unreleased gear but there wasn't any: guess that would have surfaced by now.

 

Anyway, it's funny because at no point during the conversation regarding licensing did Roy not stop me and ask "But son, are you not concerned that you are wrecking people's record collections with this forty-five?". 

 

[Labeat]

Wembley Wizard (was that Stanley Matthews?), No future, Swinging Pig, Spunk????

Is this forum called "Soul Source"? Can we keep things simple.... SOUL

[Pete S]

Wembley Wizard (was that Stanley Matthews?), No future, Swinging Pig, Spunk????

Is this forum called "Soul Source"? Can we keep things simple.... SOUL

 

No...

[Guest sharmo 1]

Wembley Wizard (was that Stanley Matthews?), No future, Swinging Pig, Spunk????

Is this forum called "Soul Source"? Can we keep things simple.... SOUL

You're  right but we were just doing a comparison with other forms of bootlegging and reissuing in the music industry which really shows how small this is compared to other form of music . However this is soul source and nothing to do with politics , sports or booze or for that pipes either.So back to the original Thread then regards Reg.

[Labeat]

Technics decks, Trackmaster stylus, Allen & heath mixer and Powered Yamaha speakers...never play on shite ;)

Allen&Heath mixer, didn't know you were a brickie Barry, can you put me a wall up please?

[Pete S]

You're  right but we were just doing a comparison with other forms of bootlegging and reissuing in the music industry which really shows how small this is compared to other form of music . However this is soul source and nothing to do with politics , sports or booze or for that pipes either.So back to the original Thread then regards Reg.

 

It's interesting and you never know where a bit of knowledge could come in useful.  

[Labeat]

No...

Alright Pete, you are the clear winner (but just for today)

[Carty]

What label had the most Wigan Casino plays?   Wouldnt  bet  against    " EMIDISC"

[Mal C]

I think there are 7 differing discussions going on, including this one!

Yep its like a Drunken Dinner party, think Mike Leigh's 'Abigail's Party'...who's Tom then?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzUNCuOQem4

Edited January 27, 2014 by Mal C

[Rich B]

This has been a very funny thread. I can't imagine anyone's collection being wrecked by a reissue. Maybe if you were a top dj and your biggest tune came out it would still only be darned annoying. As long as its legal who cares what a company puts out? Its their cash being wasted if no one wants to buy it - and if people didn't buy them they would stop putting them out wouldn't they?

 

Most of us started our collections with reissues and boots before making the decision to collect original vinyl - and I have seen some very surprising big name jocks playing emi's or reissues and even bootlegs - I know, its unbelievable isn't it?

 

So surely then it is about personal choice and not having someone dictate to you what you should listen to - which is why I rejected the pop music I heard in the early 70's and travelled all over to hear northern.

 

So reject people telling you what and on what format you must listen to it from, do your own thing and if that includes a reissue now and then, so be it.

Edited January 27, 2014 by Rich B

[Gelderd Ender]

The problem isn't the people pressing the tunes, it's muppets playing them out at events.

 

totally agree ,there a few good time charlies playing reissues at south coast soul events ,instead of the promoter paying a good wedge to a collector spinning originals ,they are playing reissues and  want you pay to get in ,was at one before xmas this lad was giving it the patter on the mike ,when I checked the 45 it was on blackmagic, don't get me  on cds and downloads

mot

[Dazdakin]

This is my last attempt to try and convert those that dont seem to give a toss.

Most of the people who dont mind what vinyl is played, be it original,reissue,or boot leg tend in the majority of the time be dancers only, those that show a feeble argument for or against are also dancers with maybe a box of records that they actually have no idea what they have got but do kind of get the argument, and those who like me are absolutly passionate about it being ovo only (now and bitd) have spent thousands and continue to spend tbousands on their vinyl, and when on the decks only ever play ovo it really, i mean really fuckin pisses me off that a guy can come on, especially before you, and play a tin pot worthless piece of plastic that cost nothing when brought and will be worth nothing to the ethos of what this scene is all about. It is not about the money spent, its all about the ignorance shown.

Dazz

[Pete S]

totally agree ,there a few good time charlies playing reissues at south coast soul events ,instead of the promoter paying a good wedge to a collector spinning originals ,they are playing reissues and  want you pay to get in ,was at one before xmas this lad was giving it the patter on the mike ,when I checked the 45 it was on blackmagic, don't get me  on cds and downloads

mot

 

Ah but there is one rare one on Black Magic unavailable elsewhere - instrumental of Sweet Darlin!

[Agentsmith]

i'm not going to go through all 125 quotes( so far ) other than to say i don't believe valuations of original vinyl will be affected by re-issues that are legit...and legit re-issues have a place on playlists.....despite the fact. in the 70's it WAS a different scenario.....it was originals v bootlegs and because the latter appeared in vast quantities, records values DID suffer and also, in a lot of cases, stopped them from getting played, though that was probably the dj's choice as much as anything...to stop complete overkill...BUT,...that was then,...almost 40 years ago...that same 40 year gap has added to the value of these discs, and as ive said before...what we have now is SECOND ONLY to the art & antiques market because,...northern soul is a global business and whereas back then it was a style subject to this country only, every man jack on the face of the planet wants a piece of the collecting action. AND because the diversity of black music that's played on the scene, is completely different from how it all started out, it's lessened the chance of any particular record suffering from overkill. the irony is.... some of the "original" boots from the 70's now command silly figures...so it's probably just as well that there are people out there, who are willing to issue stuff legitimately...it ain't gonna screw the OVO market.

[Labeat]

Occasionally we have a knife amnesty, I suggest we have a re-issue amnesty, they should all be melted down to repair the M1

[KevH]

This is my last attempt to try and convert those that dont seem to give a toss.

Most of the people who dont mind what vinyl is played, be it original,reissue,or boot leg tend in the majority of the time be dancers only, those that show a feeble argument for or against are also dancers with maybe a box of records that they actually have no idea what they have got but do kind of get the argument, and those who like me are absolutly passionate about it being ovo only (now and bitd) have spent thousands and continue to spend tbousands on their vinyl, and when on the decks only ever play ovo it really, i mean really fuckin pisses me off that a guy can come on, especially before you, and play a tin pot worthless piece of plastic that cost nothing when brought and will be worth nothing to the ethos of what this scene is all about. It is not about the money spent, its all about the ignorance shown.

Dazz

 

Daz,don't dj at venues where this can happen.All the best...Hiram Holliday.

[Pete S]

This is my last attempt to try and convert those that dont seem to give a toss.

Most of the people who dont mind what vinyl is played, be it original,reissue,or boot leg tend in the majority of the time be dancers only, those that show a feeble argument for or against are also dancers with maybe a box of records that they actually have no idea what they have got but do kind of get the argument, and those who like me are absolutly passionate about it being ovo only (now and bitd) have spent thousands and continue to spend tbousands on their vinyl, and when on the decks only ever play ovo it really, i mean really fuckin pisses me off that a guy can come on, especially before you, and play a tin pot worthless piece of plastic that cost nothing when brought and will be worth nothing to the ethos of what this scene is all about. It is not about the money spent, its all about the ignorance shown.

Dazz

 

What about the punters, the people who've come to dance, they'll vote with their feet so your anger is pointless if they like the previous blokes choices.

[Biggordy]

Ah, you've hit on there Jocko... "Armchair", there are too many armchair critics that come on this forum

that will not sample venues like Lifeline, Gloucester or Burnley where it is cutting edge in-your-face

quality original soul... apologies to other promoters/attendee's if iv'e left you out...

 

And there's those of us who WANT to attend such venues but don't drive and don't know anyone locally who goes to them.......(and don't get me started on train fares, hotel costs etc!!!)

[Dazdakin]

Pete the punters wont be hearing anything different from me as opposed to the guy before me unless they stick a professionals or damon fox or eddie parker on the turntable, and if they do..........good luck with that route.

You know as well as i do Pete that it is plain and simple.........wrong....... and should not be asked or put themselves forward to spin tunes.

 

rant over....just my opinion on how i see it mate.

 

dazz

[Staceys Dad]

bloody hell  i need a LARGE GIN after reading that lot......

[Labeat]

This is my last attempt to try and convert those that dont seem to give a toss.

Most of the people who dont mind what vinyl is played, be it original,reissue,or boot leg tend in the majority of the time be dancers only, those that show a feeble argument for or against are also dancers with maybe a box of records that they actually have no idea what they have got but do kind of get the argument, and those who like me are absolutly passionate about it being ovo only (now and bitd) have spent thousands and continue to spend tbousands on their vinyl, and when on the decks only ever play ovo it really, i mean really fuckin pisses me off that a guy can come on, especially before you, and play a tin pot worthless piece of plastic that cost nothing when brought and will be worth nothing to the ethos of what this scene is all about. It is not about the money spent, its all about the ignorance shown.

Dazz

I say that this lad should be elected mayor of Leicester, that's it pal, give it to em

[Barry]

Guilty as charged. I am 100% retired.

 

I do feel I can say I have a rather informed opinion however, and I have said it before the people like you who just scream OVO at every thing are missing the point, I have always felt if you have to ask you actually don't get it. And therefore going to these venues WTF would you even care about whats getting played at Tommy's tea dance round the corner.

 

Worry more about the quality of the music and why less people are supporing the quality venues and the rest goes away. Interesting how you missed these points out.

Don't you fucking dare bite Jocko ;)

Labeat do your homework about who you're speaking to before you throw your hand in.

[Wiggyflat]

Fryer I love prog...I'm in touch with the original members of The Open Mind and love a bit of Arzachel...and got both original lps...wouldn't play the reissues out mind.Even on the psych scene its the original format.Mace is right its not the younguns who buy these.The European youngsters and the young mods are all into orig vinyl.Jordan and the youngsouls are also into originals.l.These reissue records are for local doos and for local people.The people that Photoshop owls and fists over scooters and wear the clothes they wore when they were 15

Edited January 27, 2014 by wiggyflat

[Swifty]

bloody hell  i need a LARGE GIN after reading that lot......

changed my mind 

Edited January 27, 2014 by SWIFTY

[Benji]

Isn't it about time to give this thread a rest? I mean everything had been said already, though obviously not by everyone...

[Guest JIM BARRY]

I'm going to ask a straight forward question , if a true soul fan went to a car boot sale this Sunday and found a copy of say Gwen Owens , an original , and sold it for say three grand would that soul fan then track Gwen down and give her a cut ? I don't think so . I bet that's never happened but if a proper company rereleased it and she got a small but non the less A payment is that ok ?. I've sold around ten Gwen Owens reissues this year to people who could under any circumstances bar a lottery win not afford an original , it's not done any damage what so ever , life's too short to blow a fuse over something you can't control , balls to it get on with our lives .Simon.

I sold my Gwen Owens, for £1200 to mick h....mind you it sounded like bacon frying.

[Mike]

closing this tomorrow as per the 2014 down with oov thread thing

 

the thread starter needs to sort his act out asp

 

as said previously this sort of thing is just not wanted on here in 2014!

[Guest sharmo 1]

closing this tomorrow as per the 2014 down with oov thread thing

 

the thread starter needs to sort his act out asp

 

as said previously this sort of thing is just not wanted on here in 2014!

Best answer yet .!!!!!

[Benji]

Best answer yet .!!!!!

 

Says someone who was happy to post on this thread again and again and again and again ...

[Guest sharmo 1]

Says someone who was happy to post on this thread again and again and again and again ...

Exactly .

[MrsWoodsrules]

There is a place for rightful legit re-issues, they provide a perfectly good function for some people.

But the Northern scene has always had parasites bootlegging too, dogs bark, cats meow, and Northern Soul will always have bootleggers, thats the way it is.

Thing is, in the old days, I was greatful for them, pre digital era, was the only way you could actually hear & play the record at home dont forget.

I wont touch them now, cleared mine out, they feel dirty.

Own the original on vinyl or otherwise digitise it, no halfway house is there?

[purist]

not commented on this all the way through, but wanted to make one final, maybe vital point.

A fella I respect and admire, who has done more than his share for this scene of ours said to me " When I'm DJ'ing I will never knowingly play a song that has been booted. That way People who care about such things will know I'm 100% genuine". He went on to tell me that as soon as a song got booted he'd quietly sell off his original most of the time, and if he didnt sell it he'd leave it at home and never take it DJing with him in the future.

If there's more than just this one chap doing this same thing then yes, the value of records booted will go down as less people want to buy an original of a song thats been booted in the future.

(p.s. I see absolutely nothing wrong with snatching a boot off the decks and chucking it onto the dance floor, hopefully smashing it . Maybe that's just me and Butch then) (or is that another urban myth?)

[Guest JIM BARRY]

Re issues ..bootlegs, don't affect a collector of original format......it's just the same as compilation CDs which every body owns.

[Premium Stuff]

(p.s. I see absolutely nothing wrong with snatching a boot off the decks and chucking it onto the dance floor, hopefully smashing it . Maybe that's just me and Butch then) (or is that another urban myth?)

If you want to get some sort of vigilante thing going-on that involves such OVO direct action on the decks why not check out likely support? Think you might find lots of support - could even close down a load of dodgy non-OVO bootleg playing shite holes. Count me in bro LOL.

Above all said semi-seriously.

Richard

Edited January 27, 2014 by Premium Stuff