Who Is Behind All These Reissues? Please Tell Me So I Can Shove

[dthedrug]

 HI All....After seeing eBay listing the UA Copy of the ISLEY BROTHERS "THAT LADY" for £6..i would like to know who is behind these records, the records and the people behind these records deserves to named and shamed,

Why do they have right to wreck peoples collections by bringing out these records, in my opinion they have nothing but the making money from those people who don't no better, there is nothing rare about the discs,

Anyone selling this stuff in front of me can expect a slagging off as I have had enough of this unsoulful crap, it's wrecking my collection, so if you are aware who is the main person behind them please tell me so I can get my money back, maybe I will shove them up their a+++++++e :boxing:I am out to get you DAVE K.  

[Guest fryer]

I put this record out whilst i was working for Jazzman Records, all above board and correct, why exactly should anyone involved need to be named and shamed. What exactly is 'unsoulful', is that some unwritted code i have to aspire to that makes me a legitimate souly, please.

 

If you want to shove it up my arse you can do so at prestatyn, i might have something to say about that though.

 

I will ask that the moderators look at your rude threatning comments.

Edited January 27, 2014 by fryer

[Jnixon]

behind the abuse is a serious question

 

what would the technical charge be for threatening a mans arse with a re issue via a chat forum online

[Labeat]

You may well have put this record out "above board and correct" but so did the major banks in setting

interest rates for savers. The point that David is making... are you in this to make a fast buck or

are you a 100% true soul lover???.... The jury is out on that one!

[Guest sharmo 1]

The big problem here is collectors of originals verses collectors of reissues , both collectors exist and both have a right to spend their money as they feel fit . there are a lot of very professional and legitimate reissue company's in the world and company's like Kent/ ace , Jazzman , outta sight and soul tribe are just a few. I sell loads of reissues including the Tramp releases , fryers ect , ect and have had a few bad comments , I was reprimanded by someone , another dealer in fact who should have known better about the outta sight stuff saying they were bootlegs , they are distributed by passion in London a massive concern.All rights are paid and licenced so there's no stopping it really no one's doing anything wrong and regarding the damage to original collections I sell the reissue of the Professionals and have the original in my collection it's nor affected the value or dance floor reaction to that record.don't worry about it mate reissues have done no damage to the value or integrity of your collection.Regards Simon.

[Guest fryer]

I did it for money, its my job. I hate soul music, i only like Jazz, Fusion and Prog.

[Steve S 60]

In a way it's like reproduction furniture.  The fact that an antique piece of furniture has been reproduced for those who like that style but can't afford to buy an original piece is not going to affect the value of the original.

 

Also, why should anybody be denied the enjoyment of a piece of music (or furniture etc) because the original is unobtainable to them due to availability or price?  Do the original creators or owners of the work benefit financially or otherwise from a legitimate re-issue?

[Guest sharmo 1]

I'm going to ask a straight forward question , if a true soul fan went to a car boot sale this Sunday and found a copy of say Gwen Owens , an original , and sold it for say three grand would that soul fan then track Gwen down and give her a cut ? I don't think so . I bet that's never happened but if a proper company rereleased it and she got a small but non the less A payment is that ok ?. I've sold around ten Gwen Owens reissues this year to people who could under any circumstances bar a lottery win not afford an original , it's not done any damage what so ever , life's too short to blow a fuse over something you can't control , balls to it get on with our lives .Simon.

[Peter99]

I guess the main difference is whether certain individuals try to pass off certain records as being original when they are in fact counterfeits.

 

Peter

[Guest sharmo 1]

I guess the main difference is whether certain individuals try to pass off certain records as being original when they are in fact counterfeits.

 

Peter

You see Peter you've hit the nail right on the head there with the professional reissues they are obviously reissues , no deception.Captain Black.

[Brav]

I'm going to ask a straight forward question , if a true soul fan went to a car boot sale this Sunday and found a copy of say Gwen Owens , an original , and sold it for say three grand would that soul fan then track Gwen down and give her a cut ? I don't think so . I bet that's never happened but if a proper company rereleased it and she got a small but non the less A payment is that ok ?. I've sold around ten Gwen Owens reissues this year to people who could under any circumstances bar a lottery win not afford an original , it's not done any damage what so ever , life's too short to blow a fuse over something you can't control , balls to it get on with our lives .Simon.

I beg to differ there slightly Simon.

 

You only have to look at the Events section to see what damage there doing.

 

Brav

[Kjw]

I think the reason many collectors have an issue with re-issues these days are that there are so many of them

 

I remember when the first few releases from Outta Sight came out and recall someone questioning the point of re-issuing records that had aleady being re-issued before. There was some sort of reply that they were being selective about what they put out - since then I think they've re-issued anything and everything they can think of.

[Guest sharmo 1]

I beg to differ there slightly Simon.

 

You only have to look at the Events section to see what damage there doing.

 

Brav

A very good point Brav and do agree entirely however I have to say that in all honesty about 50 per cent of the people that I sell to don't go anywhere at all ever , some haven't been anywhere for 30 years . and in addition the vast majority who buy them don't and won't ever dj .Best regards simon.

[Billywhizz]

 HI All....After seeing eBay listing the UA Copy of the ISLEY BROTHERS "THAT LADY" for £6..i would like to know who is behind these records, the records and the people behind these records deserves to named and shamed,

Why do they have right to wreck peoples collections by bringing out these records, in my opinion they have nothing but the making money from those people who don't no better, there is nothing rare about the discs,

Anyone selling this stuff in front of me can expect a slagging off as I have had enough of this unsoulful crap, it's wrecking my collection, so if you are aware who is the main person behind them please tell me so I can get my money back, maybe I will shove them up their a+++++++e :boxing:I am out to get you DAVE K.  

its been going on since mid 70s

[Guest fryer]

There is a wider world out there, young people who want to enjoy good music who are not in your scene playing by your rules and who enjoy the 7" form factor for its obvious apeal. Just because you own a first pressing you do not have the right (legal or moral) to deny them that pleasure. If the original artists / labels are getting some small recognition and some money at the expense of a scene that wants to keep them in a box then frankly, good.

Edited January 27, 2014 by fryer

[Guest sharmo 1]

I beg to differ there slightly Simon.

 

You only have to look at the Events section to see what damage there doing.

 

Brav

In addition to what I've just said Brav , it is very true that the vast majority of attendees don't care what it's on these day's . That's from conversations I've had locally over the last couple of years , seriously the amount of people who have said to me " I don't care what it's on so long as I can dance to it " is a very large percentage of the soul night scene especially in the east midlands. Seriously these events enjoy a full house of local dancers and I can think of three I've attended in the last couple of weeks that have had 150 plus in there and two or three of the dj's have played a set of nothing but not just reissues but out and out bootlegs. regards Simon.

[Biggordy]

Pressings have a place.  Personally I can't afford rare originals.  I don't play soul music out (though I am a ska and reggae DJ) and I listen to it in the comfort of my own home.

 

I love vinyl, so it's an affordable compromise.  

 

THAT'S who repressings are aimed at, not collectors.

 

Get off your high horse.

[Biggordy]

People totally miss the point - pressings are NOT aimed at collectors, they're so us common scum can "own" the tune.

[Coops]

i'm not one for re-issues but i do understand if someone wants to collect them and box them and play them at home, but not out....... the one thing i don't understand is those who buy re-issue baggy trousers and/or circle skirts! as above it's okay for wearing at home but FFS!   

[Biggordy]

The problem isn't the people pressing the tunes, it's muppets playing them out at events.

[Guest sharmo 1]

There is a wider world out there, young people who want to enjoy good music who are not in your scene playing by your rules and who enjoy the 7" form factor for its obvious apeal. Just because you own a first pressing you do not have the right (legal or moral) to deny them that pleasure. If the original artists / labels are getting some small recognition and some money at the expense of a scene that wants to keep them in a box then frankly, good.

Have to agree whole heartedly with that statement the amount of youngsters who are getting into northern soul and it's orbiting associations only want a record . that's them they want a record and have a sense of logic that is different to old timers .this logic is that they have a record that they like and are aware of the value of an original but see it as pointless as they are part of another generation of soul fans who have a different view point it's what's refered to as the generation gap.

[Steve G]

Clear line for me between properly licensed reissues which I have no problem with, and just some pirate scuzzo pressing up records without the rights. They're the guys who should be "named and shamed".

[Guest sharmo 1]

I guess the main difference is whether certain individuals try to pass off certain records as being original when they are in fact counterfeits.

 

Peter

Have to add to this that I remember around 25 years back a certain very well known dealer knocking Victor knights and Tommy Navarro Belgium boots out as originals at £50. a pop so deception is nothing new.

[Harrogatesoul]

Oh no! Another O.V.O debate coming! 

 

Legal legitimate reissues are absolutely fine. Yes some will play them out but I would have thought we'd know which venues etc does this. Some or quite a lot of folk just don't care. The music should always come first. I buy a handful of re-issues just to have at home - I can't afford Ernest Baker but am happy to stick the grapevine 45 on the decks at home. Hasn't destroyed the price of the EB 45 has it? But in my personal honest opinion I wouldn't want to hear the grapevine 45 played out. But some won't care. That's their choice. 

 

My gripe is the illegal bootlegs / carvers whatever being sold on ebay/venues etc etc. Purely a money making illegal activity but then it has been a part of the rare soul scene since its inception! And by 'revered' individuals no doubt over the years. 

 

Every other month there's a O.V.O / keeping the scene alive with youngsters debate. In the 21st century this will involve re-issue product like it or not - not all of us were around to buy future northern classics for a few quid at the Wigan record bar.

 

Hard to stop the bootlegging so let's at the very least not ostracise people for buying legitimate re-issue product and enjoying the music. 

[Guest sharmo 1]

Another very interesting point that has been put to me by collectors over the years is that U.K releases of American recordings are not originals either but reissues can we have a point of view on that please , it's a valid and genuine question. Is a U.K release a reissue straight forward enough , yes or no.

[Guest sharmo 1]

Oh no! Another O.V.O debate coming! 

 

Legal legitimate reissues are absolutely fine. Yes some will play them out but I would have thought we'd know which venues etc does this. Some or quite a lot of folk just don't care. The music should always come first. I buy a handful of re-issues just to have at home - I can't afford Ernest Baker but am happy to stick the grapevine 45 on the decks at home. Hasn't destroyed the price of the EB 45 has it? But in my personal honest opinion I wouldn't want to hear the grapevine 45 played out. But some won't care. That's their choice. 

 

My gripe is the illegal bootlegs / carvers whatever being sold on ebay/venues etc etc. Purely a money making illegal activity but then it has been a part of the rare soul scene since its inception! And by 'revered' individuals no doubt over the years. 

 

Every other month there's a O.V.O / keeping the scene alive with youngsters debate. In the 21st century this will involve re-issue product like it or not - not all of us were around to buy future northern classics for a few quid at the Wigan record bar.

 

Hard to stop the bootlegging so let's at the very least not ostracise people for buying legitimate re-issue product and enjoying the music. 

Best answer yet Sir .

[Dazdakin]

Red dwarf . . .

Dazz

[Guest sharmo 1]

Red dwarf . . .

Dazz

Second best answer yet , you alright there daz my boy ?

[Mace]

I'd like to know who and where these youngsters are that are buying/collecting reissues & boots?

The younger generation of soulies and mods that I am aware of seem to only want originals....it seems to be the older generation who want these things....though if not for DJing with at their local tea dance, or hanging on the wall to cover a dodgy bit of decorating that they can't be arsed to sort out....then for whatever reason I can't really imagine.

Probably to compliment their wardrobe full of Ben Shurmans and Additof trainers....

Is there really some mysterious underground movement of teenage soulies, hell bent on collecting snides over originals......who knows.....but a fascinating theory all the same... ;o)

Edited January 27, 2014 by Mace

[Dazdakin]

As for British re releases being ok to play then no is the answer.

70,s grapevine MCA ABC BRUNSWICK ETC they was all made because of the success the tunes had on the soul scene so where issued again some 15yrs later to cater for the scene, where a British release came out at the same time ish as the import ie cameo parkway stuff your liberty and united artists etc. . Then obviously yes cool as they are originals issued at the same time with no other motive for release.

Imho the only grapevine 45 you COULD ever play would be betty boo, all others no.

If we are insistamt on having an ovo policy then it has to be for every instance. . . End of, or don't bother

Dazz

[Steve G]

Can we keep this on licensed reissues / unlicensed reissues, not another OVO debate and all it's nuances…..purleez!!! It'll be 10 pages long by teatime….

 

So who does the unlicensed ones / boots? Who sells 'em? Or are they Tony Soprano types who you can only speak of generally without actually naming? without getting anyone into trouble? 

Edited January 27, 2014 by Steve G

[Jason S]

70,s grapevine MCA ABC BRUNSWICK ETC they was all made because of the success the tunes had on the soul scene so where issued again some 15yrs later to cater for the scene, where a British release came out at the same time ish as the import ie cameo parkway stuff your liberty and united artists etc. . Then obviously yes cool as they are originals issued at the same time with no other motive for release.

 

Surely a record company is going to release something outside of the original domain because of it's popularity (be it on a soul scene or wherever) not in spite of it !? Surely they wouldn't release it just for the sake of it? Unless maybe to get foreign interest for the artist, but even so... 

[macca]

I did it for money, its my job. I hate soul music, i only like Jazz, Fusion and Prog.

 

That reads like one of those infamous "Macca-reputedly Ian Levine/James Trouble" comments from your old site. He's not on the warpath again, is he?

[Pete S]

I can't really answer for him but I think Dave may have accidentally picked on the wrong record mistaking it for one of these cut to order things that litter ebay nowadays.  

[Steve S 60]

 

So who does the unlicensed ones / boots? Who sells 'em? Or are they Tony Soprano types who you can only speak of generally without actually naming? without getting anyone into trouble? 

 

Strictly on the QT, but I've heard on the Grapevine it's a guy called Randolph, aka The Chemist.

[Harrogatesoul]

Can we keep this on licensed reissues / unlicensed reissues, not another OVO debate and all it's nuances…..purleez!!! It'll be 10 pages long by teatime….

 

So who does the unlicensed ones / boots? Who sells 'em? Or are they Tony Soprano types who you can only speak of generally without actually naming? without getting anyone into trouble? 

 

 

I asked a question some years ago on this Steve and no names were mentioned (i think!) but there were intimations of who was responsible. There was that guy a year or so ago who got convicted? Of course there are legalities involved if we do name said individuals. Perhaps Ady C, Tony et al have or had an idea about illegal activities on some of their product being illegally issued which of course does fine companies such as Kent no good whatsoever. 

[Dazdakin]

If were not for the soul scene the type of legit re releases we are talking about would NEVER had gotten a re release.

Come on guys think cryptically . . . Red dwarf re the latest releases!!

Dazz

[Denbo]

Another very interesting point that has been put to me by collectors over the years is that U.K releases of American recordings are not originals either but reissues can we have a point of view on that please , it's a valid and genuine question. Is a U.K release a reissue straight forward enough , yes or no.

I don't think there is a straight forward answer to this, on the face of it, very simple question. There certainly isn't a straight forward "yes or no" answer.

No, not if it hasn't been released here in the UK before. And yes, because it is likely to have been issued here in the UK some 40 years later due to the demand from the scene.

 

[Paddy Ferry]

i'm not one for re-issues but i do understand if someone wants to collect them and box them and play them at home, but not out....... the one thing i don't understand is those who buy re-issue baggy trousers and/or circle skirts! as above it's okay for wearing at home but FFS!   

And same could be said about three quarter pants and sandals.

[Dazdakin]

Yeah Simon I am good, I always am mate, its every fucker else you got to worry about.

And for sure my last replies only have any point if the said re releases are meant for home usage (then by all means buy away ) or for playing out at a venue ( then imho you can shove em )

Dazz

[Steve G]

Another over simplification from me…….?

Rare soul scene - Built on an OVO policy

Everything else - who cares…….

 

 

 

Move along? 

[Billywhizz]

Another over simplification from me…….?

Rare soul scene - Built on an OVO policy

Everything else - who cares…….

 

 

Move along? 

good point, steve rare not so rare today, imo,if u r up and down ,u,k every other week ,billy

[Len]

 the vast majority who buy them don't and won't ever dj .Best regards simon.

 

and it ain't the bloke who sells em's fault if they do. Although I understand the point that if they weren't available they wouldn't have the choice - sadly, this argument gets more irrelevant as time goes on I'm afraid.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

[Guest fryer]

There is certainly plenty young guys in Edinburgh that could never afford to buy originals DJIng in clubs and bars with repros. I d.j with two of them at Soulsville which packs in about 600 young non scene kids every month so just because you cant see it does not mean its not going on.

[Len]

Have to agree whole heartedly with that statement the amount of youngsters who are getting into northern soul and it's orbiting associations only want a record . that's them they want a record and have a sense of logic that is different to old timers .this logic is that they have a record that they like and are aware of the value of an original but see it as pointless as they are part of another generation of soul fans who have a different view point it's what's refered to as the generation gap.

 

Not my generation (and I hate to say it) but it's healthy - let em rip up that rule book, and do it their way

 

I used to think prices of certain records would fall dramatically as soon as something was pressed, but surprisingly it made no difference to value (if that's what is meant by ruining a collection because of this practise) The bit that is ruined of course, is the exclusivity.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited January 27, 2014 by LEN

[Harrogatesoul]

I would have thought the finding of a 50 count box or more affects the price of originals (in the short term or longer in some cases) and not the fact it get's booted. Well not these days - am sure it happened during the 70s..

 

Back to the question in hand (again) the people who do the illegal bootlegging are surely well known? Or is the fact that these days you have legal outlets such as , oh, say Ebay, who are happy to have illegal product flooded on their pages. The fact is they don't care about silly little records that earn them god knows how much in commissions. If I provided an outlet for people to sell counterfeit handbags, jeans.. oh hang on that would be an well known auction site...

 

If the outlet is there to sell this stuff then 'whoever' it is, and I'm sure there are quite a few! will continue to sell it. 

[pogo paul]

Don't mind re-issues, when the label is different, these can become collectable on there own, i.e. Grapevine ,Action, Kent, Horaces etc.

It's the repos that bug me, don't understand, why do it? Is it not to decieve the buyer?

Re-issues are fine, but make it a different label, so that people know it is.

[Mr Outsider]

Always hear that reissues are killing real soul clubs. Two things here: Surely real soul clubs are those with an original vinyl only policy, at least by the standards that those who speak in such terms would have it. Hence other people playing reissues in a different venue, to a different crowd, cannot damage real soul clubs. It's an entirely different market, a different audience.

 

Unless... the audience for real soul clubs are leaving en masse, to hear other DJs play reissues in other kinds of venues with other kinds of crowds. I would find that hard to believe, but if somehow it were the case then the defence for original vinyl wouldn't even be resonating with your audience, in which case you should probably start to recognize it for what it is: an esoteric collector kink which you can enjoy and indulge in but which is not really a firm basis for a world view. That much is made clear by all the contradictions and inconsistencies which emerge in people's arguments about them. 

 

I say this as someone who continues to collect and DJ originals. Because I like them. I'm passionate about music and like collecting the old records. I'm also involved in making reissues, and the two things are linked. I try and make records that I personally see some value in, because I like old music and I like records. I strive to make new records with an echo of the old ones I like, not just in the music, obviously, but in the way they look and feel. I'm not always happy with how they turn out and always want to make them better. Might sound weird to some people, but I do take a level of pride in the making of them. Anyway, if people are DJing reissues, then I can't see it as a bad thing. There's far too little decent music around in the mainstream to be upset that somewhere someone might be playing a good song to people. Is it harming my own clubs and personal choice of DJing with original vinyl - categorically no. 

 

People often talk of people only doing reissues because they're greedy. This might indeed be a motivation for some people. But ironically, most originals were made by record companies with zero interest in the music and artists. I would say the majority of those involved with the reissues, and even the boots, are more passionate about the music than the majority of 60s label owners. The artists are often getting a better royalty rate too. Just a minor issue, but felt it worth nothing. There's often a lot of hand-wringing and moralizing in the arguments of those who rage against reissues etc. And a lot of hypocrisy too. 

[Labeat]

So then, is the playing of re-issues psychologically acceptable at rare soul nights/nighters.... NO!!!

They should be confined to commercial venues.

Secondly, why bother with re-issued vinyl to play at home when it would be more economical to get

them on cd or down-load them.

Too many people have jumped on the Soul bandwagon to cash in, if you are a firm believer in original

vinyl then STICK TO YOUR PRINCIPLES

[Pete S]

Secondly, why bother with re-issued vinyl to play at home when it would be more economical to get

them on cd or down-load them.

 

 

Oh my goodness how many times do I have to answer this question?

A CD or MP3 is NOT a record.

That's all there is to it.

I want to play a record, not a cd or an mp3, a touchable, vinyl record that you can go through the process of removing from it's sleeve, wiping it on your jumper, placing it on the turntable, putting the needle on the edge of the record, anticipating the music to come, and then enjoying it for 2.30 seconds.  I get nothing from clicking a button on a computer.