A Very Simple Question

[Zanetti]

hi guys

 

i was wondering for a long time but now i got the courage to ask for it:

 

Why are some 45s thinner in the haptic than other ones?

 

e.g. the Boogaloo 45 of Don Gardner TRUGLOWTOWN (thin) and Jimmy Ricks on FESTIVAL (thicker)

 

Is it the difference between styrene and vinyl?

 

And why are they made out of styrene - what is/was the reason?

 

 

Thx In Adv

Zanetti

[Chalky]

Styrene is also brittle and if you try to bend it it will snap in no time, viinyl is a bit more flexible and will give before it snaps.

Styrene (properly, Polystyrene).

Hard, relatively inflexible plastic used to press records, mainly 7-inch

singles, mainly using the Injection Moulding process. The material is heated

to a liquid form and is then squirted or injected into the closed stampers

in the press. This requires that the labels be either glued or painted on

after the record leaves the press. The cost savings to the manufacturer

comes from the extended life of the stampers because of the lack of a

heating cycle to the stampers. The material can also be reused without

noticeable change to its moulding properties. Styrene records will therefore

usually have very quiet surfaces when found in an UNPLAYED Mint condition,

but unfortunately they will wear to a noisy condition rapidly, especially if

played with a bad stylus or an improperly tracking tonearm. They also are

more prone to Cue Burn. The Columbia Records Pittman, New Jersey pressing

plant was once the major source of Injection Moulded Styrene pressings, and

pressings from this plant are found on MANY small labels. Look for the

glued-on labels. Painted-on labels can be found on records from the

Amy/Bell/Mala group.

Vinyl (properly Polyvinyl Chloride).

Relatively flexible material used since the early 1930s to make

non-breakable records. Its fumes are an acknowledged carcinogen, so don't

breathe in deeply when you have your next holy burning of Beatles or

back-masked devil-worship records. :-) Usually pressed by Compression

Moulding which allows the label to be an integral part of the pressing

itself. This process also requires that there be extra material which spills

out the sides of the press, therefore this extra material is routinely

ground up and re-used. Because vinyl does not re-heat and re-cool to a

smooth, glossy surface, the excessive use of re-grind mixed in with Virgin

Vinyl can account for the inherently noisy surface of even Unplayed Mint

examples of the cheap pressings that some record companies used. Noise can

be seen AND HEARD by looking at and/or playing the un-grooved surface of the

lead-in and lead-out areas. If this area looks or sounds grainy, then the

grooves will also have some of this grainy background sound. The stampers

used for the compression moulding process will start to break down after

only 1,000 pressings because they are forced to expand and contract when

heated by steam at the start of the pressing cycle and then cooled to

solidify the record. Some companies routinely overused their stampers for

their pop record series.

[Zanetti]

Styrene is also brittle and if you try to bend it it will snap in no time, viinyl is a bit more flexible and will give before it snaps.

Styrene (properly, Polystyrene).

Hard, relatively inflexible plastic used to press records, mainly 7-inch

singles, mainly using the Injection Moulding process. The material is heated

to a liquid form and is then squirted or injected into the closed stampers

in the press. This requires that the labels be either glued or painted on

after the record leaves the press. The cost savings to the manufacturer

comes from the extended life of the stampers because of the lack of a

heating cycle to the stampers. The material can also be reused without

noticeable change to its moulding properties. Styrene records will therefore

usually have very quiet surfaces when found in an UNPLAYED Mint condition,

but unfortunately they will wear to a noisy condition rapidly, especially if

played with a bad stylus or an improperly tracking tonearm. They also are

more prone to Cue Burn. The Columbia Records Pittman, New Jersey pressing

plant was once the major source of Injection Moulded Styrene pressings, and

pressings from this plant are found on MANY small labels. Look for the

glued-on labels. Painted-on labels can be found on records from the

Amy/Bell/Mala group.

Vinyl (properly Polyvinyl Chloride).

Relatively flexible material used since the early 1930s to make

non-breakable records. Its fumes are an acknowledged carcinogen, so don't

breathe in deeply when you have your next holy burning of Beatles or

back-masked devil-worship records. :-) Usually pressed by Compression

Moulding which allows the label to be an integral part of the pressing

itself. This process also requires that there be extra material which spills

out the sides of the press, therefore this extra material is routinely

ground up and re-used. Because vinyl does not re-heat and re-cool to a

smooth, glossy surface, the excessive use of re-grind mixed in with Virgin

Vinyl can account for the inherently noisy surface of even Unplayed Mint

examples of the cheap pressings that some record companies used. Noise can

be seen AND HEARD by looking at and/or playing the un-grooved surface of the

lead-in and lead-out areas. If this area looks or sounds grainy, then the

grooves will also have some of this grainy background sound. The stampers

used for the compression moulding process will start to break down after

only 1,000 pressings because they are forced to expand and contract when

heated by steam at the start of the pressing cycle and then cooled to

solidify the record. Some companies routinely overused their stampers for

their pop record series.

 

 

     thx karl . that will be the answer in 13min.     

[Illusive]

Never understood why minty vinyl sometimes plays so poorly. Now I do ! Thanks Chalky.

Styrene is also brittle and if you try to bend it it will snap in no time, viinyl is a bit more flexible and will give before it snaps.

Styrene (properly, Polystyrene).

Hard, relatively inflexible plastic used to press records, mainly 7-inch

singles, mainly using the Injection Moulding process. The material is heated

to a liquid form and is then squirted or injected into the closed stampers

in the press. This requires that the labels be either glued or painted on

after the record leaves the press. The cost savings to the manufacturer

comes from the extended life of the stampers because of the lack of a

heating cycle to the stampers. The material can also be reused without

noticeable change to its moulding properties. Styrene records will therefore

usually have very quiet surfaces when found in an UNPLAYED Mint condition,

but unfortunately they will wear to a noisy condition rapidly, especially if

played with a bad stylus or an improperly tracking tonearm. They also are

more prone to Cue Burn. The Columbia Records Pittman, New Jersey pressing

plant was once the major source of Injection Moulded Styrene pressings, and

pressings from this plant are found on MANY small labels. Look for the

glued-on labels. Painted-on labels can be found on records from the

Amy/Bell/Mala group.

Vinyl (properly Polyvinyl Chloride).

Relatively flexible material used since the early 1930s to make

non-breakable records. Its fumes are an acknowledged carcinogen, so don't

breathe in deeply when you have your next holy burning of Beatles or

back-masked devil-worship records. :-) Usually pressed by Compression

Moulding which allows the label to be an integral part of the pressing

itself. This process also requires that there be extra material which spills

out the sides of the press, therefore this extra material is routinely

ground up and re-used. Because vinyl does not re-heat and re-cool to a

smooth, glossy surface, the excessive use of re-grind mixed in with Virgin

Vinyl can account for the inherently noisy surface of even Unplayed Mint

examples of the cheap pressings that some record companies used. Noise can

be seen AND HEARD by looking at and/or playing the un-grooved surface of the

lead-in and lead-out areas. If this area looks or sounds grainy, then the

grooves will also have some of this grainy background sound. The stampers

used for the compression moulding process will start to break down after

only 1,000 pressings because they are forced to expand and contract when

heated by steam at the start of the pressing cycle and then cooled to

solidify the record. Some companies routinely overused their stampers for

their pop record series.

[Only Dreaming]

It may be just me but I always thought that mint styrene 45's often sound "brighter" than the same record in a vinyl press.

[Ian Dewhirst]

One reason why I've always particularly favoured promos over issues. The first batch off the presses always sound crisper to me, whether vinyl or styrene.

Ian D

[MotownDave]

Well the first few records from any mould will not have any of the degradation passed on to them as the plates wear so in theory the demo should be cleaner . mind you some of the noise can be attributed to poor mastering ..as for styrene didn't it come into mainstream use due to the oil shortages during the '70's

[Guest Paul]

We've discussed styrene records before and I made a long and detailed post which I can't find but it should be out there somewhere.  It destroyed some of the myths and explained the different manufacturing processes and the benefits and cost advantages etc.

 

Manufacturers didn't set out to use a different kind of material, they set out to use a different kind of manufacturing process:  injection moulding rather than compression pressing.

 

Styrene just happened to be the only raw material which was suitable (and affordable) for the more efficient injection moulding process, they had tried using vinyl and other blends of material but had failed. 

 

By the early 1950s they knew that styrene was most suitable for the injection moulding of records which were lighter and cheaper and could more quickly and easily be mass produced without having to replace tooling (stamper sets) after every batch of 1000 or 2000 units or whatever.

 

It's important to remember the focus was on improving the mass production of records in huge quantities so cost and speed were the priorities.  Records had become fast-moving consumer goods and they were also considered cheap enough to be almost disposable - you could replace a worn or damaged record with a new one.

 

Styrene also turned out to be a good material for sound reproduction because the material was more uniform, it had lower surface noise and could handle some frequencies better than vinyl.

 

In theory most mint condition styrene records should sound better than vinyl records but styrene is more easily worn or damaged (a worn styrene record will usually sound more distorted) and of course it's far more brittle than vinyl so it can easily be cracked or snapped.

 

Obviously sound quality is also effected by mastering, cutting and processing etc and the duration of audio on a disc can limit the quality of reproduction.