Collecting Motown?

[Premium Stuff]

Although I have collected rare and Northern since I was a teenager I have never collected Motown.

 

Don't get me wrong, there are some decent records on those Motown labels.

 

If I was thinking of starting to collect US Motown - don't know why 

 

Supposing I decided to, what are the top tips for a fledgeling US Motown collector please?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Mike Lofthouse]

Look forward not backwards!

[Soul-slider]

Look backwards not forward

 

...by which I mean start with the 60's stuff, there are some great tunes to be had for peanuts. Marvin Gaye's 'Chained/At Last' Tamla is a good example, cheap as chips but a fantastic double sided dancer. 

[Autumnstoned]

My advice would be to make David Ruffin's - Each Day Is A Lifetime one of your first acquisitions. One of the few cuts from his unreleased album to make it to vinyl, its a fantastic production and a total winner musically and lyrically ( It's on my You Tube Channel - link below ) . When I was collecting a lot of Motown recently, I trawled Spotify which lists every USA 45 by year of release. Came across some great stuff that way e.g. Heartless -  Vandellas - Eddie kendricks - If You Let Me/ Can't Help What I Am - Arthur Adams - Cant Wait To See Your Face. Maybe start by getting a list of releases by artist and listen on You Tube/ Spotify. Don't Forget The Motor City ( DFTMC ) has complete listings. Motown Junkies is a another good site as a resource ( info about lesser known subsidiary labels like Chisa ). Also consider swapping some northern you no longer want. I got some good titles that way on here. Happy hunting.

Best

Mike

Edited December 29, 2013 by autumnstoned

[Frankie Crocker]

Grab the rare tracks first, especially the top Northern numbers. Consider collecting white demo copies as there are enough around. There are lots of label variations with vinyl/styrene, big print/small print, east/west coast pressing etc so need to be selective. Most 45's can be picked up in M- condition with patience. Most are very cheap and widely available so find a good outlet and buy in bulk. There is a catalogue on the subject to guide you through the related labels but not sure who put this out. Ignore price guide valuations especially at the high end - sure the earliest releases are very hard to come by, particularly in top condition, but some of the sounds are on the plain side and more for label run completists. The music on Motown and Tamla is generally very good, especially 1966-69 releases, so there is huge scope to build a collection of great sounds for a comparatively small outlay. Finally, put up some shelves and get a dozen 200 boxes as you're looking at gathering a lot of records.

[Guest themroc]

Just recently started to collect Motown myself after coming across the Miracles - if Your Mother Only Knew. This early Motown blew me away and flipping it over was astounded by Way Over There, this roper doper of a 45 cost me £15 (thanx to Jim Old Soul Git) and launched me into the world of Motown proper. Early Mircles tunes one after another Ooo Baby Baby, Save Me, Choosey Begger amd Save Me were easily collected for very reasonable monies. These led to awsome discoveries like 4Tops- Baby I Need Your Loving, Isley Brthers- Why When Love Has Gone and Marvin Gaye- You. Once you start the Motown journey you will never look back and now I judge a soul collection by the percentage of Motown in it. Happy collecting brother.

[Autumnstoned]

Just recently started to collect Motown myself after coming across the Miracles - if Your Mother Only Knew. This early Motown blew me away and flipping it over was astounded by Way Over There, this roper doper of a 45 cost me £15 (thanx to Jim Old Soul Git) and launched me into the world of Motown proper. Early Mircles tunes one after another Ooo Baby Baby, Save Me, Choosey Begger amd Save Me were easily collected for very reasonable monies. These led to awsome discoveries like 4Tops- Baby I Need Your Loving, Isley Brthers- Why When Love Has Gone and Marvin Gaye- You. Once you start the Motown journey you will never look back and now I judge a soul collection by the percentage of Motown in it. Happy collecting brother.

 

Another good Miracles 45 for the collection is Mickey's Monkey which is great in itself but has the fantastic Whatever Makes You Happy on the flip. Also, worth having the US Tracks Of My Tears as  Fork In The Road is on the flip. Agree what you say about judging a collection by its Motown content. 

Edited December 29, 2013 by autumnstoned

[pikeys dog]

Collect artists output rather than labels - that way you can avoid all the dross (Luney Landing, Irene 'Granny' Reid, Bobby Darin etc).

[Soul-slider]

I collect the albums too, UK & US. Think I got most of them. Rarest one I have is the Eddie Holland, followed by Marvin Gaye's first, Brenda Holloway (both), Miracles first, Temptations first, Monitors etc etc etc....

[Swifty]

I started collecting Motown related stuff myself about a year ago , dont know why I never bothered before (Soul Snobbery I Reckon !! ). Anyway , I love White demos and have picked up some gems for bugger all , Marvelettes - Destination Anywhere £6 / David Ruffin - Walk away from Love £4 / Isley Brothers - This Old Heart £6 etc., etc.

Plus loads of issues of great Northern stuff , Ask the Lonley , Love Guess Who , My Baby Loves Me , all for under £15. The thing is so many are great records both sides.

 

To be honest it's more affordable to me but there are so many great records out there for peanuts and lets not forget Motown is basically where our scene evolved from.

 

Good luck and enjoy 

 

Cheers

 

Swifty

[Soul-slider]

Collect artists output rather than labels - that way you can avoid all the dross (Luney Landing, Irene 'Granny' Reid, Bobby Darin etc).

Bobby Darin did a decent one on Motown...'Melody'

[pikeys dog]

Bobby Darin did a decent one on Motown...'Melody'

 

 

Was on about his late 60s return to the label....

[Carty]

As you asked for advice, here,s mine ,   only buy the stuff you like ,( there will be hundreds ), for me i go for the  63 to 67 period , you may like the later ( or earlier) sound                                                                                                                                              As has been stated earlier , lots of brilliant stuff can be picked up cheaply , depends how deep your pockets are i suppose ,  U.S.  issue ? U.S. demo?  U.K. issue ? U.K. demo? of course if i won the lottery i would love the stateside stuff and the 500 series tmgs  on red and white demos,however  having the original U.S issue is good too and so much more affordable .                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                          Finally , the rare northern stuff may have long since dried up in the states ,this is not the case for motown , if you ever get the time and opportunity  give that a go ,i,m sure you wont be dissapointed , all the best , Mike. 

[Mark Bicknell]

I  don't really collect now certainly not the rare stuff but love to dabble with Motown, never really bothered before but love it now, you can get some stunning records together and has it's been said for reasonable prices, great fun getting the Northern related stuff Vows, Liz Lands, Barbara McNair etc. I  got a mint VIP R Dean Taylor Demo really cheap off ebay and numerous others, like Joe said just collect the good titles and leave the dross.

[Carty]

Agree with what Swifty just said, the white U.S . demos do seem remarkably affordable .

[Mal C]

Ive never been a big fan of the label, had certain stuff like Le Benda Ben, Midnight Johnny etc.. but on the whole Ive given the label a wide birth, until I started collecting Aussie and recently allot of 7ts and eighties soul. Now I have a third of the Motown Aussie cataloge all on demo, and Ive been quite surprised at the amount of good seventies Ive picked up from the label.

 

You just can never tell can you..

 

M

[Swifty]

There's loads of stuff I wouldn't have heard to be honest until I started looking for Motown stuff .

 

This one is an example TATA VEGA - I NEED YOU NOW - TAMLA

 

 

Lovely Xover tune imho

 

Swifty

Edited December 29, 2013 by SWIFTY

[Swifty]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zW4TH1W2Kg

 

 

[Mark Bicknell]

 

Some of my nice bits and bobs, they look good, sound good and by golly they do you good, you can look as forward as you want and you wont even come close lol

[Soul-slider]

Was on about his late 60s return to the label....

Yeah, tell me about it. I have the L.p......bummer.

[Britmusicsoulfan]

If you decide to collect Motown, I would echo the sentiment to buy what sounds good to your ears.  I had a copy of the Irene "Granny" Ryan 45 but was able to pass it along to a label completist who didn't have it. 

 

The one Motown 45 I only had a chance to get once that I traded for that I've never seen again...Buttered Popcorn by The Supremes.  Love it.

[Soul-slider]

Buttered Popcorn is surpassed by the flip 'Tell Me - The Vows'.

[Chalky]

Depends if you just want to buy just what you like or you wanna label collect. If the latter than chooses a label to get started with.  

[davidwapples]

try and borrow the motown singles box sets so you can hear what you buy if its not on youtube , no point buying numbers that are not your taste just to have them

[Soulfulsolutions]

Richard,

 

I hope you are well, I thought you would have had a Motown collection sewn up given your affection for Detroit.  I suppose not collecting Motown is much the same as me not collecting UK Soul labels, there are so many and where do you start let alone stop!

 

My own Motown collection is maintained at a reasonable number of 45s and in my opinion makes for a tidy selection.  Its generally based around the tracks I want to pick up and keep forever, choosing the White Demo format to make it more challenging, also adding picture sleeves where they were produced.

 

I have occasionally come across oddities like the Temps 6-Track EP on Gordy, mine came with jukebox inserts and promo photo, so very nice all round.  Of course where I haven't been able to pick up demos the issue for particular releases will suffice. 

 

I have had many more pricier Motown 45's in demo / issue format over the years, but if they are not for keeps they go on the sales lists.

 

I can't imagine you will find it difficult to put a collection together given your knowledge and taste………. enjoy!

 

Best Regards, Lee

[Guest themroc]

Richard,

I hope you are well, I thought you would have had a Motown collection sewn up given your affection for Detroit. I suppose not collecting Motown is much the same as me not collecting UK Soul labels, there are so many and where do you start let alone stop!

My own Motown collection is maintained at a reasonable number of 45s and in my opinion makes for a tidy selection. Its generally based around the tracks I want to pick up and keep forever, choosing the White Demo format to make it more challenging, also adding picture sleeves where they were produced.

I have occasionally come across oddities like the Temps 6-Track EP on Gordy, mine came with jukebox inserts and promo photo, so very nice all round. Of course where I haven't been able to pick up demos the issue for particular releases will suffice.

I have had many more pricier Motown 45's in demo / issue format over the years, but if they are not for keeps they go on the sales lists.

I can't imagine you will find it difficult to put a collection together given your knowledge and taste………. enjoy!

Best Regards, Lee

[Pete S]

I've got a weird Motown record, it's a French EP of Martha & The Vandellas, except it's a white label solid centre test pressing of just one of the sides.  I had a few of these, only got the one now.

[Guest themroc]

Sorry. With regards to 7" Motown Picture sleeves, a great pleasure for me is collecting them when your in Europe. Most Motown realesed in this country came with a picture sleeve when released in Europe. Just as many charity shops over here have a few motown singles in them over the water they come with realy cool sleeves. In Barcelona a few months ago I came back with ten of them and none of them cost more than 6 Euros. Second hand Markets and record shops make for hours of fun, although the missus might not agree.

Nick.

[Cunnie]

Seems to be a lot of talk about Motown 7" releases on here but don't forget the albums.
My all time Motown related track is an album only release on the Mowest label.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynxqigC3DmY

[Chalky]

Seems to be a lot of talk about Motown 7" releases on here but don't forget the albums.

My all time Motown related track is an album only release on the Mowest label.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynxqigC3DmY

Nice, wouldn't mind a copy if anyone has one reasonable.  See plenty of copies but not cheap.

[Cunnie]

Nice, wouldn't mind a copy if anyone has one reasonable.  See plenty of copies but not cheap.

Be sure to buy a UK Mowest press then Chalky as the sound quality is far better than some of the US copy's.

Was lucky enough to get mine off Sutty at a reasonable price before they shot up. Might be worth asking him as he has a pretty regular turnover of stuff like this.

Could then put it in your UDG trolley  

 

[Soul-slider]

Well Richard hasn't answered back yet....must be searching out those Motown treasures???

[Dave West]

Just recently started to collect Motown myself after coming across the Miracles - if Your Mother Only Knew. This early Motown blew me away and flipping it over was astounded by Way Over There, this roper doper of a 45 cost me £15 (thanx to Jim Old Soul Git) and launched me into the world of Motown proper. Early Mircles tunes one after another Ooo Baby Baby, Save Me, Choosey Begger amd Save Me were easily collected for very reasonable monies. These led to awsome discoveries like 4Tops- Baby I Need Your Loving, Isley Brthers- Why When Love Has Gone and Marvin Gaye- You. Once you start the Motown journey you will never look back and now I judge a soul collection by the percentage of Motown in it. Happy collecting brother.

dont forget the supurb "i can take a hint"

Dave

[Dave West]

i have collected motown for a few years now, my suggestion is...be selective....theres a load of crap on motown too.

theres all the subsideries to consider. Golden World,Ric Tic, Gordy , V.I.P. etc so always listen to a track before you buy.

Some stuff will be dirt cheap, but some Golden World, Ric Tic. VIP  are quite expensive....

Dave

[Soul-slider]

i have collected motown for a few years now, my suggestion is...be selective....theres a load of crap on motown too.

theres all the subsideries to consider. Golden World,Ric Tic, Gordy , V.I.P. etc so always listen to a track before you buy.

Some stuff will be dirt cheap, but some Golden World, Ric Tic. VIP  are quite expensive....

Dave

Inferno too...

[Dave West]

Inferno too...

volumes inferno.jpg

Rare Earth

[Paul Byford 1]

For me at the moment ..it is Virgil henry ..you aint saying nothing new

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewZbFvnk_Fk

 

 

and Gladys knight and the Pips no one could love you more though not released Stateside.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vem5Es2ja98

[Chalky]

i have collected motown for a few years now, my suggestion is...be selective....theres a load of crap on motown too.

theres all the subsideries to consider. Golden World,Ric Tic, Gordy , V.I.P. etc so always listen to a track before you buy.

Some stuff will be dirt cheap, but some Golden World, Ric Tic. VIP  are quite expensive....

Dave

 

Are they subsidiaries though?  I know Gordy bought them but that was to close the competition.  I've never really considered GW, Wingate, Ric Ric, the early Inferno etc anything to do with Motown.  They were separate labels run by competitors and the motown musicians moonlighted for them which Gordy didn't like, imposing fines which the likes of Ed Wingate paid.

[Dave West]

Are they subsidiaries though?  I know Gordy bought them but that was to close the competition.  I've never really considered GW, Wingate, Ric Ric, the early Inferno etc anything to do with Motown.  They were separate labels run by competitors and the motown musicians moonlighted for them which Gordy didn't like, imposing fines which the likes of Ed Wingate paid.

yeah true he bought them to stop any competition but i class them as subsideries as many of the artists went on to record for motown, Edwin and velvelettes to name just two.

actually there were only 4 labels as you know, Motown,Tamla,Gordy and Soul. 

Not to even start debating Miracle or Harvey etc etc.......

Dave

[Chalky]

yeah true he bought them to stop any competition but i class them as subsideries as many of the artists went on to record for motown, Edwin and velvelettes to name just two.

actually there were only 4 labels as you know, Motown,Tamla,Gordy and Soul. 

Not to even start debating Miracle or Harvey etc etc.......

Dave

 

 

I don't think they and much choice as Gordy acquired their contracts as well as the labels didn't he?

[Soul-slider]

Are they subsidiaries though?  I know Gordy bought them but that was to close the competition.  I've never really considered GW, Wingate, Ric Ric, the early Inferno etc anything to do with Motown.  They were separate labels run by competitors and the motown musicians moonlighted for them which Gordy didn't like, imposing fines which the likes of Ed Wingate paid.

That's why I posted that particular Inferno release, it has 'Distributed By Motown Record Corp' on so I assume it can go into a Motown  collection?

[Chalky]

That's why I posted that particular Inferno release, it has 'Distributed By Motown Record Corp' on so I assume it can go into a Motown  collection?

 

Yep Motown did use the label name after purchase, prior to that nothing whatsoever to do with Motown.

[Soul-slider]

Quite right too Chalky. The later Inferno release with the Motown address I featured in a Motown Compilation CD, the earlier red Inferno releases I wouldn't even think of it

[Soul-slider]

....mind, it's wierd that Motown used the 'Inferno' logo on that realease, you'd have thought they'd just put the Volumes on Gordy or something. I mean Fantastic Four got put on Soul. Maybe they just liked the 'Inferno' name? 

EDIT: Is that the only Inferno release after Motown purchased them? It's the only one I've seen.

Edited December 31, 2013 by Soul-Slider

[Dave Pinch]

Nice, wouldn't mind a copy if anyone has one reasonable.  See plenty of copies but not cheap.

my usa copy is fine....nice and loud..also came out on dutch rare earth

[Premium Stuff]

Wow - thanks for all the advice folks. Some great insight and tips there. Much appreciated 

 

Have been busy for a couple of days and just came back to read this thread and there are 40+ posts - absolutely brilliant.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[MrsWoodsrules]

Seller of this one got his Artists mixed up I see.

Eddie's His Name........Holman or Holland?

I'd take the Motown disk before the Parkway one.

 

https://www.ebay.com/itm/NORTHERN-SOUL-45-RPM-EDDIE-HOLMAN-on-PARKWAY-RECORDS-/261361819718?pt=Music_on_Vinyl&hash=item3cda60e046

[Guest JIM BARRY]

yeah true he bought them to stop any competition but i class them as subsideries as many of the artists went on to record for motown, Edwin and velvelettes to name just two.

actually there were only 4 labels as you know, Motown,Tamla,Gordy and Soul. 

Not to even start debating Miracle or Harvey etc etc.......

Dave

There was of course V.I.P..   The vows , r,dean Taylor to name 2 artists on the label.,   When I was collecting  apart from Virgil Henry already mentioned 2 killer rare tracks were , the miracles, I'll try something new, and tommy good    Baby I miss you, which I have on a jobette acetate, alternate version.

[Guest Paul]

You can't really consider Golden World/Ric-Tic/Wingate or Inferno/Impact to be Motown labels because their activity pretty much ended when they were purchased, mainly to eliminate competition.  If anything, those creative organisations were killed by Motown.

Apart from Edwin Starr (and to a lesser extent The Fantastic Four) Motown weren't very interested in the artists or the catalogues, they were more interested in the studios - Golden World became Motown Studio B - and some of the staff: two examples being Inferno's Harry Balk who headed Motown's A&R department and Duke Browner who did some writing and producing.

 

Gordy was focused on major stars and major hits so the purchases of Golden World/Ric-Tic/Wingate and Inferno/Impact were bad news for many artists, writers and producers.  An obvious example is JJ Barnes who should have been a priority artist but sadly he wasn't valued at Motown.

 

So although those companies were bought by Motown they aren't part of the Motown story, they represent what had been going on in the shadows of Motown.

 

Another point to consider is that if companies such as Golden World and Inferno had remained independent, they might have survived and grown so they could have made a difference to the local music economy when Motown left Detroit for Los Angeles.  Detroit was rich in talent but Motown's domination proved to be unhealthy. 

 

Ironically, we should be thankful that Motown were unable or unwilling to resolve their dispute with Holland/Dozier/Holland, otherwise we wouldn't have had the Hot Wax/Invictus/Music Merchant labels which provided a nice alternative for a while.

 

I'm a big Motown fan and I recognise their remarkable achievements but competition is healthy and necessary.

 

Paul

[Guest JIM BARRY]

You can't really consider Golden World/Ric-Tic/Wingate or Inferno/Impact to be Motown labels because their activity pretty much ended when they were purchased, mainly to eliminate competition.  If anything, those creative organisations were killed by Motown.

Apart from Edwin Starr (and to a lesser extent The Fantastic Four) Motown weren't very interested in the artists or the catalogues, they were more interested in the studios - Golden World became Motown Studio B - and some of the staff: two examples being Inferno's Harry Balk who headed Motown's A&R department and Duke Browner who did some writing and producing.

 

Gordy was focused on major stars and major hits so the purchases of Golden World/Ric-Tic/Wingate and Inferno/Impact were bad news for many artists, writers and producers.  An obvious example is JJ Barnes who should have been a priority artist but sadly he wasn't valued at Motown.

 

So although those companies were bought by Motown they aren't part of the Motown story, they represent what had been going on in the shadows of Motown.

 

Another point to consider is that if companies such as Golden World and Inferno had remained independent, they might have survived and grown so they could have made a difference to the local music economy when Motown left Detroit for Los Angeles.  Detroit was rich in talent but Motown's domination proved to be unhealthy. 

 

Ironically, we should be thankful that Motown were unable or unwilling to resolve their dispute with Holland/Dozier/Holland, otherwise we wouldn't have had the Hot Wax/Invictus/Music Merchant labels which provided a nice alternative for a while.

 

I'm a big Motown fan and I recognise their remarkable achievements but competition is healthy and necessary.

 

Paul

All true and well put,

 

I reckon apart from Edwin Starr, only the Detroit emeralds went on to stardom, not sure if they were contracted to Motown after ric tic or they left for westbound before the takeover.