Rarity Versus Condition

[soulfulsaint]

How do you square the circle of rarity versus condition? I hate records that are scuffed, have needle fatigue or just plain knackered. I was in Detroit last month and saw records at a fair that would shame Albert Steptoe. Mind you, I have an old copy of Tamiko Jones 'Spellbound' that I can barely look at, the label is torn and the vinyl is scraped. I shouldn't have bought it many moons ago. At what stage do you let the desire to own a record overcome the logic of wanting a mint pearler? Records are getting older now, 40 year old sounds are rarely perfect - so what do you do?

[Guest smigger]

Records are getting older now, 40 year old sounds are rarely perfect - so what do you do?

Simple. Just say no.

Just saw what a mate of mine picked up of ebay. Not fit for an ashtray.

Which brings me nicely to the topic of DJs who treat you to a couple of hours of hissing and crackling to the point that your ears bleed. Thanks for the experience and nice to know that you only play originals.

[Guest rachel]

Weird.. I was just thinking about starting a thread on the same subject...

Was bidding on something last night which was only barely VG, ended up going to about half of mint book price which was probably silly considering the condition, but I really wanted it and haven't seen another for sale... in the end I got sniped so who knows what max bid the winner had put in - I guess they wanted it that little bit more

Must admit I'll often go for a rougher (but playable) copy if I can't find/afford a mint one.. always with the intention of replacing it with a better copy 'one day' Had some great bargains that way, though they can be hard to sell on when you do find that mint copy - mind you, I still have rather a lot waiting to be replaced....... one day.....

It's funny how you get used to your own records' little peculiarities though... Betty Moorer sounds odd to me without a little scuff through the intro

Edited June 26, 2006 by rachel

[Jumpinjoan]

I have to say i'm probably one of the only ones who really couldn't give a rats arse about the label etc ... as long as it plays and there's at least a little bit of paper in the middle ... i'm happy.

Oh .... and that it's cheap of course

Edited June 26, 2006 by jumpinjoan

[Guest Andy BB]

Agree with Joan

As long as it sounds good through a system it's good enough.

Couldn't give a fiddler's if the label has been scrawled on by a two year old with an indelible marker.

I want to listen to them not look at them.

I do of course appreciate that they are much more difficult to sell on at a later date with label damage...but that's actually a Very Good Thing.

[Ged Parker]

I'm another that will buy a rough looking copy if plays ok. Some records I own I have only ever seen one copy of, LaWanda William for example, so had I not bought that very copy there and then I would still not own one.

Much rather have a minter given a choice but if its a choice between having a copy at all and not, give me the copy every time

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

.

It's funny how you get used to your own records' little peculiarities though... Betty Moorer sounds odd to me without a little scuff through the intro

I dropped the pickup of my old Dansette, heavily, onto my copy of TMG 531 in 1966, causing a pop that, to this day, I always mentally insert whenever I hear anyone else playing the Contours' "First I Look At The Purse"...

TONE

[Chalky]

Simple. Just say no.

Just saw what a mate of mine picked up of ebay. Not fit for an ashtray.

Which brings me nicely to the topic of DJs who treat you to a couple of hours of hissing and crackling to the point that your ears bleed. Thanks for the experience and nice to know that you only play originals.

Don't think I've ever been to a venue where I've heard a couple of hours of hissing and crackling (except from maybe the crowd ) from the records and come away with my ears bleeding Don't think any DJ worth his salt would play record after record that hiss and crackle to the point it spoils the paying punters enjoyment. If I ever booked a dj and this was happening I think I'd tell him to sort himself out

[Guest Baz]

I like 'used' records bit of writing ect, add's to the history of the disc, you sit there wondering who the hell is this 'Louise' and did she dance around like a prat in her room like im doing right now

As long as it plays through with minimal noise im happy

[Gasher]

If it looks fucked and plays fine it will do me until a better copy comes along.

I have a few that I know I could never sell due to condition but they play great hence stay in the collection.

simple as that

[Harrogatesoul]

I like 'used' records bit of writing ect, add's to the history of the disc, you sit there wondering who the hell is this 'Louise' and did she dance around like a prat in her room like im doing right now

As long as it plays through with minimal noise im happy

===================================================================

With Baz on this one. Never been a condition freak - If I pick em up Mint then fine - but I've had some right bargains on stuff I've wanted and a bit of pen or a few surface marks etc isn't going to put me off buying. If it plays thru pretty fine then cool....

Rich

[steve z]

I'm another that will buy a rough looking copy if plays ok. Some records I own I have only ever seen one copy of, LaWanda William for example, so had I not bought that very copy there and then I would still not own one.

Much rather have a minter given a choice but if its a choice between having a copy at all and not, give me the copy every time

Hi Ged agree I too have a copy of LWW in vg but both sides play great.......gotta grab when available and hope for a better copy in the future.........still waiting for a minter ATB Steve

[Modernsoulsucks]

I really only go for mintish 45s but I did weaken last week and won Quintessents "Image of a man" on Ebay for £126. I had it sent to a mate in US to save on shipping and he says it's rough but plays fine. As it was VG clean Im hoping it's not that rough and my mate is a condition freak so Im still hopeful it's not too bad.

I'd really only seen a couple of copies over the years so I figured get it now or wait forever for a minter.

So I guess I would now buy lesser condition copies but it would have to be something really hard to get.

ROD

[Guest Baz]

Just out of interest has any one ever replaced a copy of somthing for a minter?

[steve z]

Just out of interest has any one ever replaced a copy of somthing for a minter?

Hi Baz got a minter of "Southside Chicago" told a few mates ,got offered a good trade for the minter so ended up keeping the "tired" copy ATB Steve

[Hitsville Chalky]

i agree if the label is worn and it stills plays ok that will do for me. know one forces myself to buy these worn 45s and i pay what i want to pay for them.

has for djing it looks like you can't win. if i played a bootleg you will get a moan slagging me off or if its a case of playing a 45 original with a little crackle then you still get a moan. from my own point of view i would rather play originals then bootlegs.

the next question is do the crowd really care what the dj is playing a boot or a original has long has they are dancing and having a good night.

[mischief]

A mate of mine gave me a copy of Thelma Lindsey - Prepared to love you, on Magic City.. the label is so damaged you can just about make out the word Magic in black .... label has layers of paper peeled off, think it may have been a demo as there is no colour... but a freebe and a good un at that probably never be able to sell it though..

and also bought a copy of christina quail (think thats the right name -not gonna dig it out) - long after tonight is all over stateside demo.. looks like an ice ring but plays fine... so as long as they play ok I can live with a click.

oh forgot a few years ago I bought Nolan Porter if I could only be sure and that had a little lump in the groove, 90% of the time it played fine but when it never I always pretended I knocked the deck.. always got away with it... and yes I did end up replacing it with a mint radio station owned demo..

Edited June 26, 2006 by mischief

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

I will buy anything i want but try and go for a very good to mint copy as long as it plays. Plus no records would be that bad if you looked after them. Have a Beatles EP rarely played more like 2 - 3 times but worth something being it excellent condition. What's the worst thing that can happen. Buy a record that is cheap you want yet it jumps a few times (they shouldn't even sell in the first place)

[paultp]

Just out of interest has any one ever replaced a copy of somthing for a minter?

Replaced my copy of Lucky To Be Loved on Wild Duece about two months ago, I had a VG copy for ages then got a cheap mint one off the mighty eBay so sold the other.

would only do it if the replacement was fairly cheap tho

Edited June 27, 2006 by paultp

[Guest Netspeaky]

I sold a copy of Joe Tex on ebay when it was in demand for £40 even though I stated in the decription that it sounded and looked like it had been ground under someone's foot on gravel floor. Some people will buy it in any condition if they are desperate enough.

[Paul McKay]

Don't think I've ever been to a venue where I've heard a couple of hours of hissing and crackling (except from maybe the crowd ) from the records and come away with my ears bleeding Don't think any DJ worth his salt would play record after record that hiss and crackle to the point it spoils the paying punters enjoyment. If I ever booked a dj and this was happening I think I'd tell him to sort himself out

Blimey Chalks, you can't have heard quite a few DJs play out then!

[Paul McKay]

Just out of interest has any one ever replaced a copy of somthing for a minter?

Done it on a number of occasions, but never knowingly bought a non M- in the first place (except for Johnnie Mae Matthews).

[Gene-r]

When I first got into the scene in 1982, it was quite commonplace to hear almost every DJ play at least 2 records which suffered from cue burn.

Probably something to do with the 5 grams plus on BSR and Garrard decks used for DJing in the 70s and early 80s.

[Headsy]

Done it on a number of occasions, but never knowingly bought a non M- in the first place (except for Johnnie Mae Matthews).

has anybody got a M- JMM ??

[Supercorsa]

Having to buy at the lower end of prices (no more than £40!) I tend to buy stuff that's graded no less than VG+ or 7 depends on the seller.

As for writing on the label it doesn't really bother me as someone said before (Andy BB ), "You can't play the f*&king label!"

An example I've got is Voices of East Harlem, Cashing In with the name Roy Pickett written all over it.

[Guest smigger]

Got a tune at home where some girl has written a valentines day dedication on the lable.

Being a big softy I always get a lump in the throat when I see it.

To be honest, I'm filling up writing this.

[Guest Dan]

When I first got into the scene in 1982, it was quite commonplace to hear almost every DJ play at least 2 records which suffered from cue burn.

Probably something to do with the 5 grams plus on BSR and Garrard decks used for DJing in the 70s and early 80s.

i always found 5 grams plus meant they just shouted and gurned a lot, gene.

always try to buy mint/ex but harder things will buy lower if can't get better. have a lenny curtis cracked right through but plays with only a slight tick at the start so will do till i get a better one.

i do like mint or at least vg labels, though.

sold a hytones you don't even know my name to john parker recently - played great but looked awful and i'd probably have skipped it if no-one had wanted it. which is probably a bit mad.

[Guest Stuart T]

i always found 5 grams plus meant they just shouted and gurned a lot, gene.

always try to buy mint/ex but harder things will buy lower if can't get better. have a lenny curtis cracked right through but plays with only a slight tick at the start so will do till i get a better one.

i do like mint or at least vg labels, though.

rarety and condition are a bit like girlfriends, the less chance you have of getting one the worse the condition becomes. I'll take the occasional hammered record, my Larry wright looks awful, is cracked and plays quite reasonably after the fist few pops and cost me $70. I probably couldn't geta fiver for it!

[Guest in town Mikey]

A couple of records i own sound like they were recorded down the far end of a wind tunnel with a basket of snarling vipers between the band and the recording equipment.

Superiors - What would I do

Shalimars - Stop and take a look at yourself.

Buts thats how I remembered hearing them for the first time. And I love them.

Does anyone know if there are actually proper recordings of these tunes, or are they all like mine

Edited June 27, 2006 by in town Mikey

[Guest claude rains]

A lot of dealers would love to hear people don't care about the quality of records.

I thought that was the point of assessing the value of a record.

If you had a record that was mint and one that was VG would the price be the same.

I remember Val palmer sold her spare copy of ruby andrews in about 91' for £14 instead of £20, because she thought it had slight surface noise.

I got it home played it, found only a one second slight hiss on the run in, she was very fair to deal with.

I think its ok if you don't mind the label marked or slight noise on the vinyl, but the dealers must grade and price their records accordingly.

Sorry for banging on, but it annoys me when people don't grade fairly, you feel like your being mugged.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

A lot of dealers would love to hear people don't care about the quality of records.

I thought that was the point of assessing the value of a record.

If you had a record that was mint and one that was VG would the price be the same.

I remember Val palmer sold her spare copy of ruby andrews in about 91' for £14 instead of £20, because she thought it had slight surface noise.

I got it home played it, found only a one second slight hiss on the run in, she was very fair to deal with.

I think its ok if you don't mind the label marked or slight noise on the vinyl, but the dealers must grade and price their records accordingly.

Sorry for banging on, but it annoys me when people don't grade fairly, you feel like your being mugged.

...here, don't all the scratches on your records sound invisible anyway?

TONE

Seriously, I've had some real problems myself lately, with less-scrupulous vendors who put up soundbytes of tracks in 'from CD' quality and then sell you something in "from Black And Decker sanding disc" quality...

What you hear on the soundbyte should be what you get in the mail - at all times. Full marks to those who do MP3 the actual records (e.g. Kev Cox) or at least tell you if they are not deflowering a guaranteed unplayed disc and are using a CD or lesser copy instead (well done Mr. Manship, among others...).

TONE

[Guest cenco]

has anybody got a M- JMM ??

mine is most copies i,ve seen are not that great...

[Guest Netspeaky]

The northern scene is one of the few that you get the same price for a M/Ex/Vg+ record. If we used record collector's guide for valuation, many of our discs would be worth half or a third of what we paid for them and the same goes for selling them. Seen lots of comment of couldn't care what label was like as long disc was fine, in other collecting fields, unless label and disc are mint then price drops like a stone. The exception to the rule on the soul scene is with the UK label collectors they will only pay top $ if it's mint.

[Chalky]

i always found 5 grams plus meant they just shouted and gurned a lot, gene.

I think most would be gurning and shouting after 5 grams

[Guest Dan]

The northern scene is one of the few that you get the same price for a M/Ex/Vg+ record. If we used record collector's guide for valuation, many of our discs would be worth half or a third of what we paid for them and the same goes for selling them. Seen lots of comment of couldn't care what label was like as long disc was fine, in other collecting fields, unless label and disc are mint then price drops like a stone. The exception to the rule on the soul scene is with the UK label collectors they will only pay top $ if it's mint.

that's because most other record collecting scenes are populated by reclusive 50-year-old weirdos with obsessive natures and fiendish urges to own records that hardly anyone else... hang on, sorry. back in a bit.

[John Siret]

has anybody got a M- JMM ??

Have also got M- JMM.

[Simsy]

How does this geezer bang on about 'how you've heard this at the allnighters' etc and then lists it as Paris Blue, cos there's a drill hole through it!

Tenner?

> Tony Middleton on Ebay <

[Guest Bearsy]

IF THERE ARE 2 FOR SALE AND ONE IS MINT AND THE OTHER IS VG+ AND THE PRICE IS REFLECTED IN THIS I WILL ALWAYS BUY THE MINT EVEN THOUGH ITS MORE EXPENSIVE,

BUT IF ITS A RECORD IVE BEEN AFTER FOR A LONG TIME AND THEY DONT COME AROUND OFTEN I WILL BUY ONE IN A POOR CONDITION UNTIL A MINTISH ONE COMES ALONG,

BUT FOR SOME REASON AND I DONT KNOW WHY BUT I KEEP THE POORER ONE INCASE I BREAK THE MINT ONE.

STILL LOOKING TO REPLACE A FEW POORISH ONES NOW,

TO HAVE OR NOT TO HAVE - THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

[paultp]

How does this geezer bang on about 'how you've heard this at the allnighters' etc and then lists it as Paris Blue, cos there's a drill hole through it!

Tenner?

> Tony Middleton on Ebay <

Seems fair enough for 5 dollars though. I think I'd have a bash at all his 45's if I could get them for 5 a piece, they might clean up. Wouldn't have drawn attention to them here though.

[Modernsoulsucks]

How does this geezer bang on about 'how you've heard this at the allnighters' etc and then lists it as Paris Blue, cos there's a drill hole through it!

Tenner?

> Tony Middleton on Ebay <

This is going off topic somewhat but this feigned familiarity with Northern that some of the US sellers adopt is laughable.

I noticed one guy who not only quotes the ubiquitous Guide but has started to refer to djs supposedly playing the track, usually Richard Searling!! Needless to say the records involved are invariably overpriced rubbish.

ROD

Edited June 28, 2006 by modernsoulsucks

[Guest Dan]

This is going off topic somewhat but this feigned familiarity with Northern that some of the US sellers adopt is laughable.

I noticed one guy who not only quotes the ubiquitous Guide but has started to refer to djs supposedly playing the track, usually Richard Searling!! Needless to say the records involved are invariably overpriced rubbish.

ROD

'KILLER NORTHERN SOUL!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!! This one's really tearing up the floors at The Wigan's Casio Bar right now!!!!! Massive for Butch Winstanley!!!!!!!! Also going down a storm with all the hep cats and groovy chicks out here at 'A Lotta Blues' (Keith's Roadhouse Bar, Route 72, every Friday). Man you gotta BUY THIS ONE!!!!!! Leo Sayer's FINEST northern soul moment without doubt!!!!!!'

[Guest in town Mikey]

Of course Leo Sayer is synonymous with northern Soul, because we were too cool to say we were going to an alldayer, we'd be off on a Leo Sayer.

So the factual account Dan copied and pasted (ahem) is spot on in my book.

Edited June 28, 2006 by in town Mikey

[Guest rachel]

'KILLER NORTHERN SOUL!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!! This one's really tearing up the floors at The Wigan's Casio Bar right now!!!!! Massive for Butch Winstanley!!!!!!!! Also going down a storm with all the hep cats and groovy chicks out here at 'A Lotta Blues' (Keith's Roadhouse Bar, Route 72, every Friday). Man you gotta BUY THIS ONE!!!!!! Leo Sayer's FINEST northern soul moment without doubt!!!!!!'

"Wigan's Casio Bar" makes me think of someone playing Northern classics on one of those squeaky little keyboards... actually I've still got one of them somewhere, I may get the 'demo' tune cut onto vinyl and sell it as a "mega rare instrumental".

Back on topic... have replaced a couple of things for better copies

[Guest martyn]

If it looks fucked and plays fine it will do me until a better copy comes along.

I have a few that I know I could never sell due to condition but they play great hence stay in the collection.

simple as that

Agree mate .....The only problem being I never get around to replacing them.I'v a copy of Broadway Sissy on TEC that looks like its been rubbed with sandpaper,bought for 20 quid & never replaced coz it plays OKish & I would rather spend 150 quid on a sound I havent got!

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

Well isn't it a problem not only for collectin in terms of rarity vs condition but with ebay when sellers can tell what Northern soul is and will post up something like Candi Staton - Young Hearts Run Free as Northern soul.

We know it ain't. That must piss you off especially if it's something you don't know.

[Guest Dan]

i bought a demo of george kirby cheap on ebay a while ago. one of those records i've always like and somenhow never picked up. it was described as in pretty poor nick and sure enough it was. filthy, grimy, looked scratched to f*ck.

played awful.

i immediately put it on here to resell it, cheap obviously.

i got some takers and agreed a deal.

then i had a pang of conscience. even though i'd said it was shite, it was so shite i wasn't sure if i could even flog it. hell, i thought, i'll give it a wash.

bit of fairy liquid and warm water and a quick wipe later and it was playing virtually mint...and i'd sold it for about half price

so: still looking for a george kirby in good nick.

[Supercorsa]

i bought a demo of george kirby cheap on ebay a while ago. one of those records i've always like and somenhow never picked up. it was described as in pretty poor nick and sure enough it was. filthy, grimy, looked scratched to f*ck.

played awful.

i immediately put it on here to resell it, cheap obviously.

i got some takers and agreed a deal.

then i had a pang of conscience. even though i'd said it was shite, it was so shite i wasn't sure if i could even flog it. hell, i thought, i'll give it a wash.

bit of fairy liquid and warm water and a quick wipe later and it was playing virtually mint...and i'd sold it for about half price

so: still looking for a george kirby in good nick.

Dan, why didn't you just try cleaning it when you first got it?

[Guest Dan]

Dan, why didn't you just try cleaning it when you first got it?

dunno . stupid schoolboy error, i guess. played it, it was utterly shite, and it looked that bad i didn't think it would make any difference. chris bearsoul has got it now.

[Supercorsa]

Well when you buy anymore records that are dirty, don't clean them! Just sell them to me for 50p each.

[Guest Dan]

Well when you buy anymore records that are dirty, don't clean them! Just sell them to me for 50p each.

normally clean them straight away, this one was just so bad it didn't look worth it. but lesson learned i'm afraid.