Hi everyone

 

Need some tips on curing skips and sticks on a 45 please.

 

Bought a record and it's pretty obscure so I'm keen to keep it. It's pressed on vinyl, not styrene.

 

Played it a few times and it has either skipped, or more normally gets stuck and keep repeating.

 

There are a few marks, most of them just surface scuffs and not really feelable. In the vicinity of the stick/skip there is a scratch about 2mm across the grooves. I can't say if this is the cause or not. I'm maybe thinking it's debris caught in the scratch rather than the scratch itself   

 

Cleaned it a couple of times and it hasn't cured it. However, I did manage to get it to play through without fault to record it. But then the next time I played it the record stuck 

 

What can I feasibly do to cure this please without wrecking it and so it does not sound when fixed?

 

If anyone has got any tried and tested methods please I would greatly appreciate it.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Edited January 6, 201411 yr by mike

Magnifying glass & scalpel...

Richard

I have done a few, but it takes time and a lot of patience and a keen eye! If some serious cleaning hasn't helped then its time for drastic measures!

Basic equipment a very sharp scalpel and a micro modelling magnifying glass, which comprises of a small weighted stand, two crocodile clips on flexible arms and an adjustable magnifying glass.

You put the record in the crocodile clips with some cloth between the clips and the record and where the scratch/jump is you place under the magnifying glass. The grooves come up like train tracks and you can actually see the problem. I.e like a small burr where the scratch has gone across the grooves.

Now this is were patience and a keen eye comes in, using the scalpel very slowly trim the burr away. It's best to take a small nick off then play the record. If not successfully re clamp and shave a bit more off. Eventually you should ( if you don't take too much away) get the little bugger to play. There is usually a small amount of tick/sound but if the thing wouldn't play in the first place then no problem

I have also done this on 45s/LPs where there is no scratch but just where the the grooves are pressed too close together and cause the needle to jump.

Also try an old needle/stylus with some extra weight on the play end as this sometimes can "re groove" the offending area.

Hope this of help.

Dave Halsall

For lighter clicks and scratches I  have in the past replace my stylus with an old one put the record on the decks and played it till I got to the scratch and reversed the turntable over it . I did this quite a few times , it did work but needless to say you need a deck that has reverse on it , like my Numark T-100.

If you a is 1210 or similar try a penny over the needle end held with blue tack , i do this ona lot of jamaican pressed tunes this makes it have it

note that if you run the stylus back and forth over a spot, especially with heavy force, you often burn out / distort the record. so don't do it repeatedly if you can't fix it that way quickly.

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I didn't go as far as the full 'scalpel' treatment. However, I did have a close look at the grooves with a good quality high magnification hand lens.

Based on that I went for the 'needle' treatment.

Record mow plays through fine, do I can keep it.

Wonders if there was any kind of 'chemical' solution for some such problems that would dissolve the matter causing the skip - but maybe that is under a record cleaning thread?

Thanks again

Richard

  On 23/12/2013 at 10:00, Premium Stuff said:

Thanks for all the advice guys.

I didn't go as far as the full 'scalpel' treatment. However, I did have a close look at the grooves with a good quality high magnification hand lens.

Based on that I went for the 'needle' treatment.

Record mow plays through fine, do I can keep it.

Wonders if there was any kind of 'chemical' solution for some such problems that would dissolve the matter causing the skip - but maybe that is under a record cleaning thread?

Thanks again

Richard

Glad to hear you fixed your record.  You could use dilute isopropyl achohol applied just to the affected spot with a cotton bud then rinsed/cleaned with your usual prefered method.  I've seen, but haven't tried, some blu tac like substance listed as a means of stylus cleaning so I guess this could also be used in a localised spot on a record in an attempt to "grab" the offending matter.

 

As a general comment I'd be very wary of using the weighted needle method on a styrene pressed disc for the reason Bob mentions above.  For the same reason, to keep any groove wear to the absolute minimum, when using this method the record shouldn't be revolved far at all, literally just over the scratch/mark itself.  In my experience often the scapel technique is not possible without risking more damage as the grooves on some records are so close together......unless you have the hands of a surgeon that is.

  On 23/12/2013 at 10:24, tiberius said:

Glad to hear you fixed your record.  You could use dilute isopropyl achohol applied just to the affected spot with a cotton bud then rinsed/cleaned with your usual prefered method.  I've seen, but haven't tried, some blu tac like substance listed as a means of stylus cleaning so I guess this could also be used in a localised spot on a record in an attempt to "grab" the offending matter.

 

As a general comment I'd be very wary of using the weighted needle method on a styrene pressed disc for the reason Bob mentions above.  For the same reason, to keep any groove wear to the absolute minimum, when using this method the record shouldn't be revolved far at all, literally just over the scratch/mark itself.  In my experience often the scapel technique is not possible without risking more damage as the grooves on some records are so close together......unless you have the hands of a surgeon that is.

 

I've done the scalpel method countless times, it's the eyes not the hands, but now my eyes are terrible and I've not been able to do it for about 5 years.  You can always use a sewing needle instead of a scalpel.  I've even used a Stanley knife blade.

  On 23/12/2013 at 10:33, Pete S said:

I've done the scalpel method countless times, it's the eyes not the hands, but now my eyes are terrible and I've not been able to do it for about 5 years.  You can always use a sewing needle instead of a scalpel.  I've even used a Stanley knife blade.

Surely if someone can't hold the blade steadily enough in the 1st place it doesn't matter how good their eyes are???  I can magnify the grooves to take into account my poor eyesight but the more I increase magnification any movement of the blade becomes exagerated too.  If I had shaky hands the last thing I would do would to take a sharp implement to the surface of a record no matter how good my eyes were.

  On 23/12/2013 at 11:25, tiberius said:

Surely if someone can't hold the blade steadily enough in the 1st place it doesn't matter how good their eyes are???  I can magnify the grooves to take into account my poor eyesight but the more I increase magnification any movement of the blade becomes exagerated too.  If I had shaky hands the last thing I would do would to take a sharp implement to the surface of a record no matter how good my eyes were.

 

Obviously a shaky hand won't help but once the blade or point is in the groove you just have to follow it round like a stylus was, it's a bit like a scalextrix car!

Try using an OLD record player with old type stylus - I use a Bush Discassette or one of several battery operated portables to clear pressing debris from badly pressed records. Obviously works better with vinyl records; styrene records are highly prone to damage by old players such as the plastic Mickey Mouse thing. Avoid the penny blu-tacked to the pick-up head as it deforms the stylus. Lots of good tips in the thread - thanks fellows.

First of all, make sure you are using a diamond stylus. Some of the budget ones are sapphire and are very prone to skipping. If you can get a direct drive turntable instead of a belt drive one, this makes the process very easy indeed.

You should set the weight on the tone arm as light as possible. Try the method of clearing the groove by moving the turntable back and forth with the stylus over the offending area. Only add a bit of weight if it doesn't work. For some reason it seems to work better with less weight rather than more. It's reversing the direction that clears it, not the force used, and more weight will cause permanent damage to the sound.

I have heard all the arguments about the best turntable and stylus and we all have our favourites. But for 1960's 45's, you cannot go wrong with a Technics 1200 series turntable matched with a Shure White Label cart. It's massively important that you set the tone arm up to match the cart though, and I was constantly amazed by some of the set ups that I came across when Dj'ing at other venues. It explains why there are so many records with cue burn.

If you're going down the needle route, try using a toothpick first, obvs not a fine as a scalpel, but it'll do less damage if you slip! Plus you can use those scalpel blades to pare down the end of the toothpick ;-)

 

 

Happy New Year All!

Edited January 4, 201411 yr by Tony Smith

  On 04/01/2014 at 20:51, Quinvy said:

It's massively important that you set the tone arm up to match the cart though

 

What does this mean exactly?  I'm clueless about this sort of thing.

  On 05/01/2014 at 12:38, Pete S said:

What does this mean exactly?  I'm clueless about this sort of thing.

It depends on what type of turntable you are using Pete. Some are designed to use with only one type of cart, these are pre set so that the stylus will be at the correct angle. If however you are using a more professional type of turntable, you will be able to use different types of tone arm and cartridge.

I am only conversant with the Technics 1200 range, and these decks have adjustment for different types of cart. Even adding a slip mat will alter the angle of the stylus. There are full instructions on recommended settings and how to set the tone arm with the turntable and the cart. Each type requires different weight and height settings. Unless you are an audiophile and are playing mint albums, I would strongly advise turning the anti skate to "0"

If you don't have the manual for your turntable, you should be able to download it on line.

if the skip is caused by dirt and not a scratch you probably need to learn to better clean the record rather than running a needle back and forth over it.

 

also, there's no need to dilute isopropyl alcohol, 100% isopropyl alcohol (which unrelatedly is dangerous to have because crystals can form at the rim of the bottle under certain conditions and explode) won't harm vinyl or styrene. it's not the only way to clean a record and isopropyl alcohol on its own doesn't penetrate the grooves well without a surfactant (wetting agent).

I agree Bob. I have never rated isopropyl for cleaning records.

  On 05/01/2014 at 17:46, Quinvy said:

It depends on what type of turntable you are using Pete. Some are designed to use with only one type of cart, these are pre set so that the stylus will be at the correct angle. If however you are using a more professional type of turntable, you will be able to use different types of tone arm and cartridge.

I am only conversant with the Technics 1200 range, and these decks have adjustment for different types of cart. Even adding a slip mat will alter the angle of the stylus. There are full instructions on recommended settings and how to set the tone arm with the turntable and the cart. Each type requires different weight and height settings. Unless you are an audiophile and are playing mint albums, I would strongly advise turning the anti skate to "0"

If you don't have the manual for your turntable, you should be able to download it on line.

 

Much appreciated mate, thanks.

  On 06/01/2014 at 10:40, Quinvy said:

I agree Bob. I have never rated isopropyl for cleaning records.

 

isopropyl is good for cleaning records. it will get out some things that dish soap doesn't. dish soap gets out some things that the alcohol doesn't. and some other solvents will get out other things. i was just saying that there is no need to dilute it and it won't get everything out.

 

EDIT: also, it's way stronger/better than ethanol at cleaning the record.

Edited January 7, 201411 yr by boba

  On 04/01/2014 at 20:51, Quinvy said:

First of all, make sure you are using a diamond stylus. Some of the budget ones are sapphire and are very prone to skipping. If you can get a direct drive turntable instead of a belt drive one, this makes the process very easy indeed.

You should set the weight on the tone arm as light as possible. Try the method of clearing the groove by moving the turntable back and forth with the stylus over the offending area. Only add a bit of weight if it doesn't work. For some reason it seems to work better with less weight rather than more. It's reversing the direction that clears it, not the force used, and more weight will cause permanent damage to the sound.

I have heard all the arguments about the best turntable and stylus and we all have our favourites. But for 1960's 45's, you cannot go wrong with a Technics 1200 series turntable matched with a Shure White Label cart. It's massively important that you set the tone arm up to match the cart though, and I was constantly amazed by some of the set ups that I came across when Dj'ing at other venues. It explains why there are so many records with cue burn.

 

 

Shure White Label's are great!

  On 06/01/2014 at 10:40, Quinvy said:

I agree Bob. I have never rated isopropyl for cleaning records.

It's years since I cleaned any records but was mates with someone who was real serious and had a brilliant collection. He thought that isopropyl 'burnt' the record especially styrene, yet some of the other posts claim not. 

  On 10/01/2014 at 20:21, jam66 said:

It's years since I cleaned any records but was mates with someone who was real serious and had a brilliant collection. He thought that isopropyl 'burnt' the record especially styrene, yet some of the other posts claim not. 

 

Isopropyl is 100% safe for vinyl and styrene, assuming it's nothing more than isopropyl alcohol and water. It's the base for many cleaning fluids you can buy.

 

If you buy ethyl alcohol it will mess with the surface, not because it's not safe but because they denature it with chemicals that are not safe for vinyl or styrene. You'd have to find a source for non-denatured ethyl alcohol; even everclear is safer than pharmacy ethyl alcohol. But isopropyl is also much stronger at cleaning dirt.