A Question For The Oldies Brigade ?

[NEV]

How can there be an oldies vs newies debate, when there aren't any newies. The records that are seen as newies these days are actually "Funk" records, and bear no resemblance to "northern"   

 

  Being pedantic or splitting hairs ,really is'nt offering a constructive comment Phil

 

   "northern soul "  has encompassed  many different styles of music ,funk being just one of them ... quite a lot of so called "funk" has been played at rare soul and underground /upfront  alnighters for the past 40 yr ...but i can understand your point .

Point being ,airing too much on the funk side and not quite enough soul content

[Modernsoulsucks]

Northern Soul is a genre as Godin pointed out all those years ago. Well that was my understanding at the time and still today. Melodic "uptown" soul music.

Northern Soul scene is something different. That has encompassed different styles. It's also led to splits along the way such as Wigan pop or Mecca disco period.

Just wondering if we need another to get back to the soul content you mention.

ROD

[Scal]

"TIME FOR A NEW 60's MAFIA?".........

depends on what your birth date is!

[Scal]

Sorry, sorry....got it all wrong again.....thought someone wanted an over 60's Mafia!

[Modernsoulsucks]

You got my sympathy vote.

I now realise just how good Ken Goodwin was.

ROD

[Scal]

Yes he was the top guy at TWTSSC, along with Colin and Bernard......now there was a place!

[Len]

Sorry, sorry....got it all wrong again.....thought someone wanted an over 60's Mafia!

 

[Guest Byrney]

How true that is Macca ,the oldies v newies thing . has never stopped,never will in my opinion

Looking back at Steve's (speed limit) post I'm not sure this is about oldies vs newies. It seems to be about the ability of this current oldies 'nostalgia' scene to accept 'new to them' records. There's 100s of traditional 60s Northern tunes played from late Wigan onwards which will be new to the majority on that scene so why don't these get played? Is it as Barney suggested about lack of quality?

I'd suggest not, I think it's because the majority (not all) on the current nostalgia scene in the main want the records that remind them of their time on the scene. Nostalgia. Pure and simple.

[Quinvy]

I don't think it is Byrney. If the oldies crowd get to hear tunes from the Stafford era through to today, they will dance to them. If you look at stuff that people like Ginger have got and then played in their sets they have gone on to be massive on the oldies scene.

If the Dj's on the oldies scene slip the odd one into their set, after a while the dancers will get used to them.

Look at tunes like "Jeanette" wasn't that a Butch spin years ago? Massive at the oldies clubs.

[Guest Byrney]

I don't think it is Byrney. If the oldies crowd get to hear tunes from the Stafford era through to today, they will dance to them. If you look at stuff that people like Ginger have got and then played in their sets they have gone on to be massive on the oldies scene.

If the Dj's on the oldies scene slip the odd one into their set, after a while the dancers will get used to them.

Look at tunes like "Jeanette" wasn't that a Butch spin years ago? Massive at the oldies clubs.

There's the odd tune (Wade Flemons is a good example) but that's my point - it's the odd well known tune in amongst your Shirley Ellis's, Younghearts, Epitomes of sounds etc.

I'm actually hoping someone will convince me that a set like Phill's posted earlier would fill an oldies night dance floor, mostly well known and classic Northern.

[Philt]

Trust me Byrney, it doesn't and wouldn't mate,not a chance. I've cleared an 'oldies' night floor in the NW in the last 18m (and all over the country for 20 years, piece of p*ss) with Professionals, Joe Matthews and Martha Starr: "I'm not being funny mate but play summat we know Ffs".

Fortunately, the lad after me got things back on track with his Vibrations bootleg, to cries (literally) of "thank f*ck for that." It's funny now but that felt like quite a long hour from where i was stood! Frightening really.

[Guest Byrney]

And there's the rub and for me answers the question. How can a perfect example of classic northern like Love Is The Only Solution fail to be accepted on today's nostalgia scene. It's uptempo, Detroit and a great dance record so why? Ill leave you all to it now unless we get some feedback on the quality aspect of the the records previously mentioned from those on that scene.

Cheers

[Chalky]

I don't think it is Byrney. If the oldies crowd get to hear tunes from the Stafford era through to today, they will dance to them. If you look at stuff that people like Ginger have got and then played in their sets they have gone on to be massive on the oldies scene.

If the Dj's on the oldies scene slip the odd one into their set, after a while the dancers will get used to them.

Look at tunes like "Jeanette" wasn't that a Butch spin years ago? Massive at the oldies clubs.

I don't remember Butch spinning it but could be wrong. Don't really remember any particular Dj spinning it as it was a common record, just demand pushed the price up. The other two Wade Flemons tracks were bigger records years ago.

Promoters and DJ's alike have to take a lead and introduce newer discoveries, maybe 4 or 5 a set but a really good record will cross over despite the oldies DJ's.

Most that seem to have crossed over have been inspite of the oldies DJ's and not because of them, largely because of DJ's like Sam, Mick H and Andy Dyson having an influence all over the country with bookings, even Butch until recently at Kings Hall etc.

The oldies DJ by and large won't take a chance until a record turns up and sells for money and is generating a lot of gossip.

Edited December 20, 2013 by chalky

[Steve G]

Trust me Byrney, it doesn't and wouldn't mate,not a chance. I've cleared an 'oldies' night floor in the NW in the last 18m (and all over the country for 20 years, piece of p*ss) with Professionals, Joe Matthews and Martha Starr: "I'm not being funny mate but play summat we know Ffs".

Fortunately, the lad after me got things back on track with his Vibrations bootleg, to cries (literally) of "thank f*ck for that." It's funny now but that felt like quite a long hour from where i was stood! Frightening really.

 

We've all had that experience Phil, it's a very long and lonely hour when you're up there being bombarded with requests for Judy Street and taking snidey comments from punters.

 

Most that seem to have crossed over have been inspite of the oldies DJ's and not because of them, largely because of DJ's like Sam, Mick H and Andy Dyson having an influence all over the country with bookings, even Butch until recently at Kings Hall etc.

The oldies DJ by and large won't take a chance until a record turns up and sells for money and is generating a lot of gossip.

 

Absolutely true. Mick and Sam particularly have spent years hammering some of the "newer" stuff week in week out at niters and weekenders. Andy D meanwhile simply doesn't get enough bookings. We put him on down here a few years ago (and Mick), and it didn't make the slightest difference to the attendance much to my disgust (with the locals). Yet some fooker puts Winstanley on and they're queuing round the block and foaming at the mouth.

 

As I keep saying two different scenes, best to leave it that way....

Edited December 20, 2013 by Steve G

[Spacehopper]

agree with whats been said this scene has always taken on different styles..the masses never used to be so strict..so AS ALWAYS

 

new tunes that make it may not be that uptempo four to the floor 60s soul that is 'northern'...

 

i always mention jt parker and kindly shepherds..maybe rnb and gospel but down here in the sw only a few of us danced years ago when des first started playing them regularly now all the oldies lovers run to the floor on their intros so in the future will thay be thought of by the younger and new soulies as 'classic oldies'?

 

 'jeanette' was mentioned,are we saying thats a later discovery?...wigan was well before my time but there is a goldmine lp of 'casino forgotten memories' and its on there?

 

dean

[Guest Soultown andy]

Im always amazed at the stuff that does cross over you hear, rlb its bad you know, at all the big oldies nites round here to rapturous applause.Broken at mid civic  by one who shall remain nameless,but about as far removed from the 60s stomper as you can get.Yet as phil t says spin classic 60s with the perfect dance beat and its an empty floor,swons.  

Edited December 20, 2013 by Soultown andy

[barney]

think people are being a tad negative about the oldies brigade I have been going to some east midlands events for over 10 years now and the music played back then has changed and if we had the playlists from back then and compare with the same or similar venues today you would be surprised at the difference , this scene does evolve but a lot slower than { the more upfront } venues , maybe its just that some dj,s want the opportunity to dick wave and play their expensive new tunes and be worshipped for doing so or dealers wanting to push new stock

but I cant see whats wrong with what is by far is the majority of people in this scene do , namely go out in their numbers every w/end and listen and dance to the music they love ,,

[Chalky]

 'jeanette' was mentioned,are we saying thats a later discovery?...wigan was well before my time but there is a goldmine lp of 'casino forgotten memories' and its on there?

 

dean

Jeanette isn't a new discovery, not even recent, it has been around years and like I said I don't really remember it getting that much attention until into the 90's as it was a pretty common record.

[Spacehopper]

thats what i thought...i must have misunderstood a post earlier

[Chalky]

think people are being a tad negative about the oldies brigade I have been going to some east midlands events for over 10 years now and the music played back then has changed and if we had the playlists from back then and compare with the same or similar venues today you would be surprised at the difference , this scene does evolve but a lot slower than { the more upfront } venues , maybe its just that some dj,s want the opportunity to dick wave and play their expensive new tunes and be worshipped for doing so or dealers wanting to push new stock

but I cant see whats wrong with what is by far is the majority of people in this scene do , namely go out in their numbers every w/end and listen and dance to the music they love ,,

What are you hearing now at the East Midlands nights now you weren't hearing ten years ago?

[barney]

al Williams for one chalky but got things to do and its mad Friday off out with the lads

[Len]

Trust me Byrney, it doesn't and wouldn't mate,not a chance. I've cleared an 'oldies' night floor in the NW in the last 18m (and all over the country for 20 years, piece of p*ss) with Professionals, Joe Matthews and Martha Starr: "I'm not being funny mate but play summat we know Ffs".

Fortunately, the lad after me got things back on track with his Vibrations bootleg, to cries (literally) of "thank f*ck for that." It's funny now but that felt like quite a long hour from where i was stood! Frightening really.

 

Welcome to my world! lol.....I find it quite a buzz really - 'S & M D.Jing'  

 

Len  

Edited December 20, 2013 by LEN

[Len]

Jeanette isn't a new discovery, not even recent, it has been around years and like I said I don't really remember it getting that much attention until into the 90's as it was a pretty common record.

 

It was in Soul packs at one stage.

 

Len  

[Guest Byrney]

al Williams for one chalky but got things to do and its mad Friday off out with the lads

Sorry but if Al Williams ( great record btw) is a new underplayed tune in my neck of the woods then ill carry on heading out of the east mids. This exactly highlights my point that the nostalgia scene want the same old stuff and are not open to the 100s of quality big tunes played to full floors over the years.

[KevH]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS8R8FlyYuY

[Scal]

Marvin L. Sims; always in John Vincent's sets at Wigan74/75.....covered up then as Lenis Guess.

[sir cumference]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OS8R8FlyYuY

As Vettel often says-Yes,Yes,Yes-that`s what I`m talking about!

 

Where has it been?Along with all the others.

 

Do we think that there is a possibility that these tunes themselves may be in danger of getting hammered?

[Guest Byrney]

think people are being a tad negative about the oldies brigade I have been going to some east midlands events for over 10 years now and the music played back then has changed and if we had the playlists from back then and compare with the same or similar venues today you would be surprised at the difference , this scene does evolve but a lot slower than { the more upfront } venues , maybe its just that some dj,s want the opportunity to dick wave and play their expensive new tunes and be worshipped for doing so or dealers wanting to push new stock

but I cant see whats wrong with what is by far is the majority of people in this scene do , namely go out in their numbers every w/end and listen and dance to the music they love ,,

I don't think it's about it's right or wrong for people go out and listen to the music they love, in my view I see the nostalgia scene as separate to the whole tradition of northern soul so they can fill their boots. This thread is about ( at least I think it is) the ability of the oldies scene to accept new to them records, regardless of them being newbies or oldies outside of their top tunes.

T

For what I see it looks like they don't. Steve G is right though, this nostalgia scene is separate.

[Mrtag]

Al Williams great tune!! one of my all-time favourites    but played to death in the North West & I guess elsewhere in the country

not played it in a set for an age  infact parted company with mine about 18 months ago 

[Barry]

Was at a home Xmas party last Saturday (an adult one for a change) where as a favour I said I'd do the music and was stood outside with the smokers when one of the women (about 55 and had been silent to this point) spotted me Wigan tattoo - the conversation starts...well more like she started talking at me about how ace NS is and how her and Hubby went to Prestatyn and how much they love the scene etc etc...

 

...this in turn sparked interest with some of the other normals outside and to cut a long story short...and to sum what's going on today up...she gets her phone out and says to the group -  'Listen!! This is my favourite record of all time!"

 

...at which point I jumped in and asked her;

 

"Is it a man or a woman love?"

 

She replied "A man!"

 

...I paused for effect and put that pre-trick Dynamo look on me face before I responded..

 

"Frank Wilson - 'Do I Love You Indeed I Do!"...just as it started on her phone.

 

The people in the group outside were Wowed...

 

'HOW on Earth out of the thousands of records there are could you know that her favourite was that particular one?"

 

Edited December 20, 2013 by Barry

[KevH]

As Vettel often says-Yes,Yes,Yes-that`s what I`m talking about!

 

Where has it been?Along with all the others.

 

Do we think that there is a possibility that these tunes themselves may be in danger of getting hammered?

 

It will now.

[Steve S 60]

 

 

'HOW on Earth out of the thousands of records there are could you know that her favourite was that particular one?"

 

 

Magic Barry, you'll have to do a reveal for all the SS members.  I'm guessing you had access to her phone prior to the conversation.  Only way to explain it.

[Back Street Blue]

"Frank Wilson - 'Do I Love You Indeed I Do!"...just as it started on her phone.

 

The people in the group outside were Wowed...

 

'HOW on Earth out of the thousands of records there are could you know that her favourite was that particular one?"

 

 

They put it on as a "treat" for me in my local and when we get together with the neighbours......I just smile gratefully.

[KevH]

Was at a home Xmas party last Saturday (an adult one for a change) where as a favour I said I'd do the music and was stood outside with the smokers when one of the women (about 55 and had been silent to this point) spotted me Wigan tattoo - the conversation starts...well more like she started talking at me about how ace NS is and how her and Hubby went to Prestatyn and how much they love the scene etc etc...

 

...this in turn sparked interest with some of the other normals outside and to cut a long story short...and to sum what's going on today up...she gets her phone out and says to the group -  'Listen!! This is my favourite record of all time!"

 

...at which point I jumped in and asked her;

 

"Is it a man or a woman love?"

 

She replied "A man!"

 

...I paused for effect and put that pre-trick Dynamo look on me face before I responded..

 

"Frank Wilson - 'Do I Love You Indeed I Do!"...just as it started on her phone.

 

The people in the group outside were Wowed...

 

'HOW on Earth out of the thousands of records there are could you know that her favourite was that particular one?"

 

 

Shazam was based on you Barry.

[Barry]

Shazam was based on you Barry.

 

I did it with 'my miiiind' Kev

[Guest Bearsy]

9 times out of 10 (not the tune btw) an oldies lover will want what they know played so they can dance to it. 9 times out of 10 (again not the tune btw) oldies lovers dance exactly the same way to every tune and 9 times out of 10 (seriously not that tune) they dance out of time as if they was listening to agadoo on some headphones.

I heard many a soulie whinge cos a dj plays a slower then they run to the floor for Jimmy Bo Horne - I can't speak, then they moan a tune is too fast then they run to the floor dancing to Melba Moore - Magic touch etc etc etc

I honestly reckon if I was to dj at Stoke in the main room out of say Sean Chapmans play box I wouldn't get as good a dance floor reaction as if it was Sean playing the same set of records, some soulies will also pick and choose which djs they dance too.

Let's just say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it swim.

[barney]

9 times out of 10 (not the tune btw) an oldies lover will want what they know played so they can dance to it. 9 times out of 10 (again not the tune btw) oldies lovers dance exactly the same way to every tune and 9 times out of 10 (seriously not that tune) they dance out of time as if they was listening to agadoo on some headphones.

I heard many a soulie whinge cos a dj plays a slower then they run to the floor for Jimmy Bo Horne - I can't speak, then they moan a tune is too fast then they run to the floor dancing to Melba Moore - Magic touch etc etc etc

I honestly reckon if I was to dj at Stoke in the main room out of say Sean Chapmans play box I wouldn't get as good a dance floor reaction as if it was Sean playing the same set of records, some soulies will also pick and choose which djs they dance too.

Let's just say you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it swim.

yes your probably right 9 out of 10 people who go to soul nights don't give a flying fook about new music , or OVO or the name of the fat owd guy spinning the discs , what they will be intent on is having a good time to great music they know and love and having the odd stumble on the dance floor , shame on them

Edited December 20, 2013 by barney

[Chalky]

It was in Soul packs at one stage.

 

Len  

 

A soul pack record does't necessarily make it a common record.  John said he would use records for soul packs when he needed money.  He might have a box of 25 of a particular record, he might have a 100 but they were used regardless.  Very few might have turned up since so in essence some so called soul pack records might just be pretty rare and not as common as the term suggests.

[Chalky]

al Williams for one chalky but got things to do and its mad Friday off out with the lads

 

dunno why you didn't hear it ten years ago, I heard it many a time in the east mids when I lived there, one of the top 500.

[barney]

dunno why you didn't hear it ten years ago, I heard it many a time in the east mids when I lived there, one of the top 500.

[/quote

well I,m not going to beat myself up for not having heard it years ago but never heard it played at the tracky or catholic or hospital clubs in Barnsley or at Brighouse which were the venues I attended back then and first heard this a couple of years ago at an east midlands venue played out by Ian Gee and have liked it since and heard many previously unheard or unknown to me tracks played out at places like annesley, bentick ,east Kirkby , Kingsway , blackhearts and the grovenor ,all despised venues by some on here

[Ian Dewhirst]

A soul pack record does't necessarily make it a common record. John said he would use records for soul packs when he needed money. He might have a box of 25 of a particular record, he might have a 100 but they were used regardless. Very few might have turned up since so in essence some so called soul pack records might just be pretty rare and not as common as the term suggests.

In the case of "Jeanette" I think John had it in quantity as it was a £1 record on his lists for ages.

Ian D

[Guest Byrney]

Eh? Do you think 9 out of 10 people at Boomerang, Grumpy Soul, Inner City Soul, Masters of Soul, Empty Bottles etc etc don't care about new music to their ears? Your way off there mucker. Or do you mean the nostalgia scene your on? If so that's a resounding yes I agree from me. Pretty much the point I've been banging home with Piece of 4 x 2.

Glad we got there in the end

[Guest Bearsy]

Blimey someone's tired lol

[barney]

Eh? Do you think 9 out of 10 people at Boomerang, Grumpy Soul, Inner City Soul, Masters of Soul, Empty Bottles etc etc don't care about new music to their ears? Your way off there mucker. Or do you mean the nostalgia scene your on? If so that's a resounding yes I agree from me. Pretty much the point I've been banging home with Piece of 4 x 2.

Glad we got there in the end

wtf, we are talking about the oldies brigade not the venues you mentioned here , please don't pigeon hole me because I like what I like and deffo don't care for a lot of what is deemed by some has more upfront music , its a subjective thing isn't it , but I refuse to believe that the great unwashed who attend soul nites and even niters are mentality retarded because they also like what they like.

[barney]

off now to a long established soul venue in Barnsley for the Christmas bash run by the venerable Mr Greenhough and his sidekick deano who I can guarantee will play an eclectic mix of music some of which I wont have heard before and somme I wont want to hear again lol.

back out for round 2

[Guest Byrney]

wtf, we are talking about the oldies brigade not the venues you mentioned here , please don't pigeon hole me because I like what I like and deffo don't care for a lot of what is deemed by some has more upfront music , its a subjective thing isn't it , but I refuse to believe that the great unwashed who attend soul nites and even niters are mentality retarded because they also like what they like.

Who's saying their retarded - WTF back at you, they like what they like fair doos, You mentioned Soul nights so I listed some, but nostalgia nights? as I say your right on that score.

 

I'm not even talking about upfront music here - I'm talking about classic northern tunes that were played 30+ years ago to full dancefloors, but not during the few years many on your scene frequented nighters.

 

Look its clear the question has been answered - the Nostalgia scene want what they know and very little else. Cracking - let them get on with it

Edited December 20, 2013 by Byrney

[barney]

Who's saying their retarded - WTF back at you, they like what they like fair doos, You mentioned Soul nights so I listed some, but nostalgia nights? as I say your right on that score.

 

I'm not even talking about upfront music here - I'm talking about classic northern tunes that were played 30+ years ago to full dancefloors, but not during the few years many on your scene frequented nighters.

 

Look its clear the question has been answered - the Nostalgia scene want what they know and very little else. Cracking - let them get on with it

hey ho thanks for attributing me to the so called nostalgia scene but like I said don't pigeon hole me , you don't know me and though I personally don't do the vests and baggies thing ,I will defend their right to do so ,

I find some of the responces on here a tad offensive and no wonder people no longer frequent this site when such elitist claptrap is posted , its a music scene for gods sake , its not life and death , the only real tradgedy is that a lot of the people who really matter,, the artists and musicians got very little reward for giving us the music

[barney]

apologise for the strong language used yesterday no excuse but mad Friday afternoon and nite contributed some what,

everyone has a right to their views within reason , some people are more passionate about things wrt our scene and long may it continue ,

me I grew up with this music and everything was wonderfull and new as a callow youth in the late sixties but Im a lot older now and have an onboard filtering system that chooses my music its called experience and it doesn't let me down when deciding good or bad records but it is subjective ,

 merry Christmas and a happy and prosperous new year to all soulies every where .

heres my boss tune from last night at the trades ,

 

https://youtu.be/OrYIJpmEp3Y

[Scal]

As you say it is a very subjective and emotive subject.

However your "boss tune" sounds to me like Anne Murray singing 'Ave Maria'.....pretty awful.

In my ipinion!

[bri phill]

Is Barney arguing with himself here (Oh sorry it's Byrney)

 

Well after listening for a few seconds to that boss tune that's another venue I can give a miss, it's like something I heard in around 1962 by  Alma Cogan or something,

I listen to more lively stuff with more boll***s to get myself to sleep.