Rare Records - 30 Years On

[Epic]

What will happen in 30 years time? Will our offspring be able to cash them in? Or will they just become part of a house clearance?

[Guest]

What will happen in 30 years time? Will our offspring be able to cash them in? Or will they just become part of a house clearance?

Everyone knows the answer, hence the deafening silence 'epic'

[Guest Baz]

I'll be walking round carboot sales picking up allsorts for 10p

[Guest]

I'll be walking round carboot sales picking up allsorts for 10p

. Seriously though, does make you wonder ! Be nice to hear some serious collectors views

[Guest Mart B]

A very interesting point epic a certain person i know must have a collection worth at least 500.000 at todays prices.What do you do do you cash in or hope that the the scene carrys on the way it is.But you then run the risk ten years from now theres no one interested enough to buy northern so your left with a aload of skimmers.

[Dunc]

I don't live too far from St Annes and will be keepin an eye on the local charity shops from now on !!!

Ex serious collector. Prices now silly

Dunc

[Sean Hampsey]

What will happen in 30 years time? Will our offspring be able to cash them in? Or will they just become part of a house clearance?

This is a potentially a far scarier thread than the recent 'Sam Dees / Rumour' question.

I was discussing this at some length with Kev Briscoe on the 4 hour journey down to the last Yarmouth 'Soul Essence'.

The best parallel I could come up with would be Antiques.

I buy quite a few bits of Antique furniture (and pictures and the like) and in recent years have noticed the following:

1. Mid Range stuff is dropping through the floor (Some real bargains around)

2. Top Drawer stuff is holding its own (to a very narrow market)

3. People under 40 (your average Joe) tend not to buy antiques (The IKEA generation)

4. People over 50 (average Joe again) are more concerned with their money (The 'I Fear For My Pension' and my old age generation).

Lets say you're in your early to mid 40's right now.

Picture the scene 5-10 years from now.

You're 50+.

Pension looking thin.

Time to cash in on some of your hard earned vinyl.

Who's going to buy it... at the price you're wanting.

Not the 30 somethings (they're gonna be busy lazer zapping, download, MTV stylee, video nasty, mega pixel, 100 gigabyte files down onto their remote solar powered palm tops).

Other coffin dodgers, like us, will be off loading our vinyl too, so competition will be fierce.

As we all know, price is affected by the law of supply and demand.

Supply will increase, demand will decrease (diminishing market).

Frightening prospect.

Much like the Stock Market (or Property Market), it's about knowing what to buy, when to buy, when to hold and when to sell.

Right now is still a pretty good time to buy the top dollar stuff.

The Pound is fairing quite well against the dollar so 'relative bargains' are still to be had from the US.

Mid range material though is already showing signs of devaluation.

Regular stuff, well you can hardly give it away.

Oh and it could get worse. Come a Global Pandemic, you'd swap your complete set of Red & White TMG's or Mint Shrine 45's for a fresh loaf of Warburtons. Especially if your (grand)kids are starving!

Ouch! Just read the above back to myself.... Scared myself to death.

Good job we're not in it for the money I reckon!

Please absorb and delete... before anyone else reads it!

Sean

Footnote: Will gladly take in any unwanted vinyl... before its too late...

...at the right price of course!

[Guest]

Nicely put Sean The only thing i would question in comparing it to Antiques, is that ours is a more limited market. With Antiques new generations are still going to be interested, where as these records, I would think, are only of value to our generation.

[45cellar]

Nicely put Sean The only thing i would question in comparing it to Antiques, is that ours is a more limited market. With Antiques new generations are still going to be interested, where as these records, I would think, are only of value to our generation.

The true value of Northern Soul will live on

Good Music - NEVER DIES

[Cunnie]

This is a potentially a far scarier thread than the recent 'Sam Dees / Rumour' question.

I was discussing this at some length with Kev Briscoe on the 4 hour journey down to the last Yarmouth 'Soul Essence'.

The best parallel I could come up with would be Antiques.

I buy quite a few bits of Antique furniture (and pictures and the like) and in recent years have noticed the following:

1. Mid Range stuff is dropping through the floor (Some real bargains around)

2. Top Drawer stuff is holding its own (to a very narrow market)

3. People under 40 (your average Joe) tend not to buy antiques (The IKEA generation)

4. People over 50 (average Joe again) are more concerned with their money (The 'I Fear For My Pension' and my old age generation).

Lets say you're in your early to mid 40's right now.

Picture the scene 5-10 years from now.

You're 50+.

Pension looking thin.

Time to cash in on some of your hard earned vinyl.

Who's going to buy it... at the price you're wanting.

Not the 30 somethings (they're gonna be busy lazer zapping, download, MTV stylee, video nasty, mega pixel, 100 gigabyte files down onto their remote solar powered palm tops).

Other coffin dodgers, like us, will be off loading our vinyl too, so competition will be fierce.

As we all know, price is affected by the law of supply and demand.

Supply will increase, demand will decrease (diminishing market).

Frightening prospect.

Much like the Stock Market (or Property Market), it's about knowing what to buy, when to buy, when to hold and when to sell.

Right now is still a pretty good time to buy the top dollar stuff.

The Pound is fairing quite well against the dollar so 'relative bargains' are still to be had from the US.

Mid range material though is already showing signs of devaluation.

Regular stuff, well you can hardly give it away.

Oh and it could get worse. Come a Global Pandemic, you'd swap your complete set of Red & White TMG's or Mint Shrine 45's for a fresh loaf of Warburtons. Especially if your (grand)kids are starving!

Ouch! Just read the above back to myself.... Scared myself to death.

Good job we're not in it for the money I reckon!

Please absorb and delete... before anyone else reads it!

Sean

Footnote: Will gladly take in any unwanted vinyl... before its too late...

...at the right price of course!

All too true Sean

Guess you best offload your copy of LaRom Baker to me now for a fiver before the value drops even further.

You know it makes sense

[Guest]

The true value of Northern Soul will live on

Good Music - NEVER DIES

Let's hope so Roger

[45cellar]

Let's hope so Roger

I look at todays music, and they (all too often) look to us for inspiration

[Sean Hampsey]

I look at todays music, and they (all too often) look to us for inspiration

Aha! Too True!

But the question was "What Will Happen to Rare RECORDS 30 Years From Now?"

The music should be (and probably WILL be) preserved as an art form, just as Mozart, Bach, Beethoven etc.. are today.

However, you can trip over a pile of 60 year old 78's for three quid any day of the week at a car boot sale or a charity shop.

I don't see youngsters (future generations) getting too enthused about crusty old bits of circular plastic that they are ill equipped to listen to... even if their Grand parents spent the weekend getting off on them.

I'm afraid I've seen the BIG picture. And its not a pretty sight.

Gold Bullion. Property. Diamonds.

Very Good Investment.

Records... Nah.

Best advice is treat 'em like you do your Women.

Enjoy 'em when you first get 'em.

Get 'em across the table half a dozen times a day for the first week and get your moneys worth out of them (until the novelty wears off) and then stick them in a cupboard and forget about 'em... while you go looking for the next one!

Never hurt me!

Sean

[Guest]

I look at todays music, and they (all too often) look to us for inspiration

Know what you mean . It's the same with films these days, every other one seems to be a re-make of something. I dunno, it seems imagination is off the board to the youth of today. Or is there just a point mankind reaches where everything has more or less been done ? (not talking Technology here)

[Dave Moore]

The sooner the arse drops out of the "worth" of my record collection the better as far as I'm concerned. I regard my collection as worthless in financial terms. I'm sure many other collectors also do. Once the "investor" collector starts flapping and trying to liquidise their "asset" the better. I can then start buying seriously again!

I'll wager I'm not the only one waiting in the wings either! In fact...I know I'm not.

Regards,

Dave

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

[Guest]

Aha! Too True!

But the question was "What Will Happen to Rare RECORDS 30 Years From Now?"

The music should be (and probably WILL be) preserved as an art form, just as Mozart, Bach, Beethoven etc.. are today.

However, you can trip over a pile of 60 year old 78's for three quid any day of the week at a car boot sale or a charity shop.

I don't see youngsters (future generations) getting too enthused about crusty old bits of circular plastic that they are ill equipped to listen to... even if their Grand parents spent the weekend getting off on them.

I'm afraid I've seen the BIG picture. And its not a pretty sight.

Gold Bullion. Property. Diamonds.

Very Good Investment.

Records... Nah.

Best advice is treat 'em like you do your Women.

Enjoy 'em when you first get 'em.

Get 'em across the table half a dozen times a day for the first week and get your moneys worth out of them (until the novelty wears off) and then stick them in a cupboard and forget about 'em... while you go looking for the next one!

Never hurt me!

Sean

How many women you got stored in cupboards then Sean ??

[Guest]

The sooner the arse drops out of the "worth" of my record collection the better as far as I'm concerned. I regard my collection as worthless in financial terms. I'm sure many other collectors also do. Once the "investor" collector starts flapping and trying to liquidise their "asset" the better. I can then start buying seriously again!

I'll wager I'm not the only one waiting in the wings either! In fact...I know I'm not.

Regards,

Dave

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

That's a good point actually Dave, I suppose to the real collector it is the joy of owning & holding that record, not the price, so i suppose he wouldn't care where it went after his demise.

Edited July 1, 2006 by B-side-B

[45cellar]

Aha! Too True!

But the question was "What Will Happen to Rare RECORDS 30 Years From Now?"

The music should be (and probably WILL be) preserved as an art form, just as Mozart, Bach, Beethoven etc.. are today.

However, you can trip over a pile of 60 year old 78's for three quid any day of the week at a car boot sale or a charity shop.

I don't see youngsters (future generations) getting too enthused about crusty old bits of circular plastic that they are ill equipped to listen to... even if their Grand parents spent the weekend getting off on them.

I'm afraid I've seen the BIG picture. And its not a pretty sight.

Gold Bullion. Property. Diamonds.

Very Good Investment.

Records... Nah.

Best advice is treat 'em like you do your Women.

Enjoy 'em when you first get 'em.

Get 'em across the table half a dozen times a day for the first week and get your moneys worth out of them (until the novelty wears off) and then stick them in a cupboard and forget about 'em... while you go looking for the next one!

Never hurt me!

Sean

I'm right and you're right

I look at it this way

Would you rather have a photograph of the Mona Lisa or the Mona Lisa.

The artist in many cases is long gone, , so the 45 is the next best thing, (ALTHOUGH It's what's in the groove that does come first)

I collect what I like and I like what I collect, If it is valuable, well, that is just a happy coincidence.

[Guest]

The "serious business" of the record racket does seem a bit heavy to people new on scene. Lower prices may make it a little more fun for everyone involved(well, probably not the dealers!). Lot's of bad blood through the years because deals gone bad over bits of vinyl, could well be averted in the future if the bottom does drop out. Accessibility to records will cause the scene to revive again after a major drop.....

-Mike

[Guest Baz]

. Seriously though, does make you wonder ! Be nice to hear some serious collectors views

So im not a serious collector

[jasonion]

So im not a serious collector

Only when you frown.

[paultp]

The sooner the arse drops out of the "worth" of my record collection the better as far as I'm concerned. I regard my collection as worthless in financial terms. I'm sure many other collectors also do. Once the "investor" collector starts flapping and trying to liquidise their "asset" the better. I can then start buying seriously again!

I'll wager I'm not the only one waiting in the wings either! In fact...I know I'm not.

Regards,

Dave

www.hitsvillesoulclub.com

I reckon you've got it right Dave

There was a similar thread to this a couple of months ago and I mentioned the generation who collected Jazz - all now popping their clogs and massive collections up for sale. Some stuff is stiil valuable but most isn't as there is plenty about with a limited market.

With a bit of luck, this thread and the one I started about records getting cheaper will have people scrambling for eBay to offload and we can have our pick

[Epic]

Any collector who is feeling "off colour" this weekend send me all your vinyl at a vastly reduced price. Your next of kin will then avoid death duties & inheritance tax.

This offer is open to all - free of charge.

"Epic- The Philanthropist"

[Wiganer1]

This is a potentially a far scarier thread than the recent 'Sam Dees / Rumour' question.

I was discussing this at some length with Kev Briscoe on the 4 hour journey down to the last Yarmouth 'Soul Essence'.

The best parallel I could come up with would be Antiques.

I buy quite a few bits of Antique furniture (and pictures and the like) and in recent years have noticed the following:

1. Mid Range stuff is dropping through the floor (Some real bargains around)

2. Top Drawer stuff is holding its own (to a very narrow market)

3. People under 40 (your average Joe) tend not to buy antiques (The IKEA generation)

4. People over 50 (average Joe again) are more concerned with their money (The 'I Fear For My Pension' and my old age generation).

Lets say you're in your early to mid 40's right now.

Picture the scene 5-10 years from now.

You're 50+.

Pension looking thin.

Time to cash in on some of your hard earned vinyl.

Who's going to buy it... at the price you're wanting.

Not the 30 somethings (they're gonna be busy lazer zapping, download, MTV stylee, video nasty, mega pixel, 100 gigabyte files down onto their remote solar powered palm tops).

Other coffin dodgers, like us, will be off loading our vinyl too, so competition will be fierce.

As we all know, price is affected by the law of supply and demand.

Supply will increase, demand will decrease (diminishing market).

Frightening prospect.

Much like the Stock Market (or Property Market), it's about knowing what to buy, when to buy, when to hold and when to sell.

Right now is still a pretty good time to buy the top dollar stuff.

The Pound is fairing quite well against the dollar so 'relative bargains' are still to be had from the US.

Mid range material though is already showing signs of devaluation.

Regular stuff, well you can hardly give it away.

Oh and it could get worse. Come a Global Pandemic, you'd swap your complete set of Red & White TMG's or Mint Shrine 45's for a fresh loaf of Warburtons. Especially if your (grand)kids are starving!

Ouch! Just read the above back to myself.... Scared myself to death.

Good job we're not in it for the money I reckon!

Please absorb and delete... before anyone else reads it!

Sean

Footnote: Will gladly take in any unwanted vinyl... before its too late...

...at the right price of course!

==========

brilliantly put sean,,

often thought about this

will only sell mine when im truly fed up of the scene and the records

cant see this being for a very long time

money aint everything even though they could put me a large deposit on a bigger house - ah well

[Guest]

So im not a serious collector

Mucho appologies Baz

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

I shall keep hold of the records i get in years to come and maybe cost me pence. Now don't worry the scene won't die while i am around

Just one thing i feel sorry for something that might pop up in say 30 years time you all miss out on if you ain't here.

[Guest tweed]

I mentioned the generation who collected Jazz - all now popping their clogs and massive collections up for sale.

or, around these parts at least, doo-wop... all the serious doo-wop collectors are older folks, and are selling/trading to other older folks. Not many younger collectors in that market...

I think since northern soul is dance music and DJ driven it still has some legs and can go on as long as it continues to get club exposure.

[Sean Hampsey]

How many women you got stored in cupboards then Sean ??

Not as many as I used to have.

I've tried to keep 'em to a minimum, since that Fred West thing a few years ago!

[Ernie Andrews]

A very interesting point epic a certain person i know must have a collection worth at least 500.000 at todays prices.What do you do do you cash in or hope that the the scene carrys on the way it is.But you then run the risk ten years from now theres no one interested enough to buy northern so your left with a aload of skimmers.

I sold up in Jan 1980 cos I thought it was all falling apart.

I made £1800 in one night OH God! What are they worth now in todays prices and what will they be worth in 30 years if it still going! Booo Hooo!

[Chris Anderton]

Talking with US dealers, the only scene we can liken the northern scene too is the US group collecting scene. It used to be a competative and vibrant scene, records fetched great amounts...then everyone died, leaving 4 or 5 big collectors.....the bottom dropped out of the market. Now,if a record comes up for sale that 2 of them dont have then you will get a good price but if they all have it....you get bugger all.......

Chris

[Sunnysoul]

Is this really an issue ?

First and foremost I love Soul Music and for the whole of my adult life I have spent loads of time and money acquiring a massive a collection of rare soul vinyl, which is the most obvious manifestation of my passion for the music. I do it for the love of it !

The "ups and downs" of the values of soul records has always been a great talking point for most collectors but really, do most people collect soul records as an "investment" ? Frankly, if my 1000 pound rarities of today are worthless in 20 years time, it makes not the slightest difference to me. And they can gladly bury me with my worthless vinyl !

My point is ... that the music and the records have given me, and will continue to give me, the greatest pleasure in life ... right to the very end. So if you TRULY love Soul Music and collecting Soul Records, should the thought of what they might be worth now, next week, next year or in 20 years time ever really cross your mind ?

If anybody is really worried about the future worth of their soul vinyl, or if you want to provide financially for your loved ones in the future, then my friendly advice is very simple: just sell up everything right now and put yourself out of your paranoid misery, so you won't ever die wondering ...

[Guest]

In the questionnaire I was sent today I was asked this question:

Why do you think the northern soul scene has last for four decades?

I said:

Because we're not dead yet? Someone on soul-source said about his very expensive record collection... when I'm old, pissing my pants in a wheelchair, my great great grandchildren will be using my records as frisbies in my garden! Sum's it all up really LOL. (or words to that effect).

I wonder if there'll be a 15 grand frisbee someday?

[Guest]

Talking with US dealers, the only scene we can liken the northern scene too is the US group collecting scene. It used to be a competative and vibrant scene, records fetched great amounts...then everyone died, leaving 4 or 5 big collectors.....the bottom dropped out of the market. Now,if a record comes up for sale that 2 of them dont have then you will get a good price but if they all have it....you get bugger all.......

Chris

The group collecting scene in the USA is like comparing Manchester United with Accrington Stanley. It is certainly NOT worldwide or even nationwide in the USA. The number of collectors is small by comparison. Ireonically, some group collectors are now collecting Northern Soul vinyl.

Look at the 50s Rock & Roll scene in the UK, a rare gold text London 45 creates as much demand as any Northern soul 45.

All I can point to is our contact with Northern soul collectors, we now have 15,000 on our database, based worldwide and I'm sure we only have a small percentage of the active collectors out there.

Rare records in general is a vibrant market, but it has changed. The buying habits have changed. I think selling at events and sales lists the activity has decreased considerably. The internet activity has seen a sensational increase. 4 years ago I think our business was about 60% lists with 40% internet. Today it is 80% internet 20% lists.

It's changing but there is certainly no drop in demand, it is now stronger and wider-based than ever. 5 years ago we employed 2 staff, today it is 8. Believe us, vinyl has a long way to go, before anything significant happens to the collecting aspect of Northern Soul.

Prices I think are stable, after several former active big spenders have become quieter: but there is always the next big spender and his rival on the horizon ready to kick-start prices as their finacial situation changes.

It's vibrant, it's fun and it's infectious.

Don't worry, be happy.

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

One thing and you might disagree but wouldn't many Northern soul records be worth loads in 20 years etc. As you read in record collector funk music is getting collectable but cant compete with Northern soul as the prices keep going up and up.

[Dave Moore]

Is this really an issue ?

First and foremost I love Soul Music and for the whole of my adult life I have spent loads of time and money acquiring a massive a collection of rare soul vinyl, which is the most obvious manifestation of my passion for the music. I do it for the love of it !

The "ups and downs" of the values of soul records has always been a great talking point for most collectors but really, do most people collect soul records as an "investment" ? Frankly, if my 1000 pound rarities of today are worthless in 20 years time, it makes not the slightest difference to me. And they can gladly bury me with my worthless vinyl !

My point is ... that the music and the records have given me, and will continue to give me, the greatest pleasure in life ... right to the very end. So if you TRULY love Soul Music and collecting Soul Records, should the thought of what they might be worth now, next week, next year or in 20 years time ever really cross your mind ?

If anybody is really worried about the future worth of their soul vinyl, or if you want to provide financially for your loved ones in the future, then my friendly advice is very simple: just sell up everything right now and put yourself out of your paranoid misery, so you won't ever die wondering ...

[Epic]

Some really interesting comments - think the bottom line is that like all the "possesions" you acquire throughout your life you must always remember that you are only borrowing them.

So enjoy 'em .