Has The Bottom Fallen Out Of Cheaper Record Sales?

[John Moffatt]

Loads of very interesting and well thought out comments along the way here, based on a wide range of experiences. I can't reply to everyone, but thank you all for your input. I think we are going through a time when real bargains are there to be had, but it all depends on why you buy records in the first place. Can I ask though, that some of you who also DJ give some of these cheapies a spin or two. Whether you're playing at a full-on dance night or a chill-out session, there are many, many tunes that are in need of an airing (and, conversely, a fair few that should be put away and never heard again).

ATB

John

[Barry]

Some of us do John ;0)

[Len]

Some of us do John ;0)

 

Ditto.......My 'old time' friend  

 

Len  

[Swifty]

Yep remember buying it from Pep in Wolverhampton . Was on a well known dealers list at that price as well. Lot's of those early 80;s late 70's 45 ' s were around in quantity.

The rarity perception is a myth on many tunes.

And remember for every rare Northern of Funk 45 listed on Ebay - that has ten watchers the equivalent rare classical album or rare Blue Note 60's RVG pressing will have over 25 / 30 people watching and bidding.

The rare soul scene of collectors  is a minuscule market  when pitched against  the rare classical , jazz , and heavy metal genres -

Good point that , just because we're into it you think everybody else is and they Ain't , never thought of that to be honest 

[Guest]

I wonder if John Manship Records or Tim Anglo Brown etc will be rushing out there new price guides, with lower prices than the previous guides!

 

They are quick when the prices are going up, but probably not so enthusiastic when they are going down!

Edited December 4, 2013 by Guest

[Geeselad]

Good point that , just because we're into it you think everybody else is and they Ain't , never thought of that to be honest 

 

strange I can off load bog standard 80's pop albums but not cheapo NS, again down to the size of the well saturated NS market

[Dave Moore]

Trouble is many expensive records aren't rare just tucked away in collections, many no rarer than many of today's cheap records. Many of today's indemand expensive records were around in quantity in the 80's and when these hit the market when those who returned bought big the market for them will be on it's arse.

Sooner the better. ;-)

Regards,

Dave

[Frankie Crocker]

Kinda sad that no one wants cheap records that are very good sounds in many cases. What happened to building up a collection gradually, aiming to buy everything that sounds good regardless of price? Now so many 'hot boxers' want to be DJ's... or is it the DJ's want to be 'hot boxers' which is lazy collecting IMO, maybe not even proper collecting, perhaps merely quick acquisition or something equally shallow. Time was, whoever had the most records, had a pretty good collection but now it's about who's got the rarest and most expensive sounds and can bag a spot on the pub/club circuit. The surplus of cheap records was inevitable when UK diggers turned up warehouses jammed with MPac, Marvlus and Jerhart etc - these labels pressed tens of thousands of records in the belief they would chart but very few sold in significant quantity. Maybe one day, the low-end records will be revived when the world realises there are more decent 1960's soul records waiting to be picked up than the total output of the music industry in the last 40 years.

[Quinvy]

I can't agree with that Frankie. I've never been a collector per se, even in the early 70's when records were very cheap I never had more than 300. I only ever bought records that knocked my socks off. Collecting labels is just like stamp collecting.

 

I don't know why the term "hotboxing" is considered as derogatory. I was certainly a hotboxer. If you Dj regularly and you are honest with yourself, you will soon realise that you use the same 20 to 30 records nearly every time you do a spot.

 

The idea is to keep moving the odd record on, and replace it with something fresh for your set.

 

I think I had around 130 45's most of the time, but I was always swapping or selling the odd record all the time to try and keep it fresh. You would have to be very wealthy indeed to be able to keep everything and still add new things to the box. And why would you want to? Every record has it's day.   

[John Moffatt]

Some of us do John ;0)

Great to hear Barry. Yes, we do too. I hope the idea might spread a little, but such events are not very common (at least not round here) and I've lost count of the number of times I've been told to 'play something we know'. But that's another well-worn topic, so let's not get into it here.

[John Moffatt]

I can't agree with that Frankie. I've never been a collector per se, even in the early 70's when records were very cheap I never had more than 300. I only ever bought records that knocked my socks off. Collecting labels is just like stamp collecting.

 

I don't know why the term "hotboxing" is considered as derogatory. I was certainly a hotboxer. If you Dj regularly and you are honest with yourself, you will soon realise that you use the same 20 to 30 records nearly every time you do a spot.

 

The idea is to keep moving the odd record on, and replace it with something fresh for your set.

 

I think I had around 130 45's most of the time, but I was always swapping or selling the odd record all the time to try and keep it fresh. You would have to be very wealthy indeed to be able to keep everything and still add new things to the box. And why would you want to? Every record has it's day.   

Interesting point you make. For myself I can say, if I'm guesting somewhere, I pick tunes that I think will fit where I've been asked to play, and then I'll go for the ones that will be well-accepted, be that oldies, underplayed, R&B, whatever. But at my own clubs, I empty my box after every event and fill it up with completely different material. Of course, most tunes are repeated eventually, over the months, but my aim is to keep it as fresh as possible. That's where having a reasonable collection, with a fair few cheapies, works, I think.

[Guest CARL D]

It's definately a struggle to sell at the moment, and a buyers market for the less in-demand 45's. When i started building up my collection,about 12 yrs ago, i decided to go on a certain sellers website and listen to the sales sound clips. As there were so many sounds i didn't know, i literally started at A and went through the whole alphabet listening to clips-took me fookin ages,as i had a VERY slow pc! Over[a long]time, i bought many of those i really liked/could afford. I had no extensive network of northern soul mates to advise me on prices, but i did use a guide book.........! So i just paid the prices on site. Selling some of those recently, i've found that they are actually worth no where NEAR what i originally paid-for example-Little Hank-Try to understand-paid £150, sold for £60! Now, i don't blame anyone else, apart from my naive,less soul-buying experienced younger self, but since then, after joining Soul Source, ebay, e.t.c., i've realised that much of what i originally bought isn't worth those prices now,and wasn't even worth those prices in the first place. Collecting is definately a learning curve, and i'm sure others can relate. Of course, on the other side of the coin, i'm taking full advantage of cheaper 45's, especially with the knowledge/experience i've gained, so it's certainly swings and roundabouts,with many ups+downs in the world of northern soul collecting! Cheers, Carl.

[Quinvy]

I never mentioned value. Why would you assume that my 130 45's were all big money items? Believe me, there were plenty of cheapies in that box, and they got played. A fantastic record is a fantastic record, regardless of cost. 

 

Too many on here seem to have a problem with anyone who is lucky enough to own any big ticket 45's. Get over it, we would all have them if we were lucky enough to have the money. Well I certainly would anyway. 

[Guest Bearsy]

I'm always searching for the cheap tunes, most I see listed I've either got or I don't rate enough to part with my cash and if their good and to my taste and cheap I will buy it money allowing.

Cheap tunes can be bought by anyone so probably everyone has got them,

More expensive tunes can be bought by a good few

Very expensive tunes can only be bought the the lucky few

I could spend 1 month 200 quid on say 8 to 20 tunes

Next month 200 quid on 1 tune

If I spend more on a more expensive tune then I boloxed for buying for a while lol

Quality cheapies will sell I know cos a good few I've wanted had already sold.

The other thing is, so many trying to get top dollar for a tune wether its a fiver asking a tenner for it or 100 quider asking 120 for it etc etc

You wanna sell them then why not do what I did and put no prices on a list and asked people to make offers on what they was willing to pay, guess what ? I sold loads and yep mainly all a fair bit below going rate but hey that's all people was willing to pay and I need to sell. Simples

[John Moffatt]

I never mentioned value. Why would you assume that my 130 45's were all big money items? Believe me, there were plenty of cheapies in that box, and they got played. A fantastic record is a fantastic record, regardless of cost. 

 

Too many on here seem to have a problem with anyone who is lucky enough to own any big ticket 45's. Get over it, we would all have them if we were lucky enough to have the money. Well I certainly would anyway. 

Well put. As you say, we'd all love more of the big ones, but we all have only so much cash, and the price shouldn't really matter anyway. If it's good, it's good. At a time like this when, supposedly, money is tight, how come the cheapies (but goodies) don't sell, but the big ticket numbers do? Or is that just my perception, that may not be universal or accurate?

[Peter99]

I've started buying some stuff again - mostly cheap stuff.

 

Peter

 

[Guest Bearsy]

When we say cheap tunes not selling what are the cheap tunes ? Classics, odd balls, left field, common ?????

If their Indemand they won't stay cheap for long and will sell that's for sure lol

Other thing is a lot of people by what the current flavour is and often pay too much and when their bored with it or its out of flavour they try sell it but sell it at the price they paid "too much" for which means a cheap tune now over priced.

I've bought tunes that have increased in price and I've bought tunes new to me that become a bit Indemand so paid more than what they was before Indemand but I don't care cos I ain't selling them.

90% of the time their cheap for a reason and mainly cos there are 1000s of them.

[John Moffatt]

I wasn't intending getting too specific, but 3 tunes that attracted no interest at all were Martha & Vandellas - Heartless, Miracles - Would I Love You & Gerri Granger - You Must Be Doing Something Right. Not out-and-out in-demanders admittedly, but worth 99p surely (£2 postage). Perhaps not :-)

Edited December 5, 2013 by John Moffatt

[NEV]

Only seems to be 4 & 5 figure sum records that sell fast!

  5 figure sum records ..steady on chap ,you don't see too many of them on JM's auction ,let alone sales on soulsource

  Or do you mean £199.99 p

[Pete S]

I wasn't intending getting too specific, but 3 tunes that attracted no interest at all were Martha & Vandellas - Heartless, Miracles - Would I Love You & Gerri Granger - You Must Be Doing Something Right. Not out-and-out in-demanders admittedly, but worth 99p surely (£2 postage). Perhaps not :-)

 

I managed to get £5 for the gerri Granger record on Discogs this week!

[Dave Moore]

It's definately a struggle to sell at the moment, and a buyers market for the less in-demand 45's. When i started building up my collection,about 12 yrs ago, i decided to go on a certain sellers website and listen to the sales sound clips. As there were so many sounds i didn't know, i literally started at A and went through the whole alphabet listening to clips-took me fookin ages,as i had a VERY slow pc! Over[a long]time, i bought many of those i really liked/could afford. I had no extensive network of northern soul mates to advise me on prices, but i did use a guide book.........! So i just paid the prices on site. Selling some of those recently, i've found that they are actually worth no where NEAR what i originally paid-for example-Little Hank-Try to understand-paid £150, sold for £60! Now, i don't blame anyone else, apart from my naive,less soul-buying experienced younger self, but since then, after joining Soul Source, ebay, e.t.c., i've realised that much of what i originally bought isn't worth those prices now,and wasn't even worth those prices in the first place. Collecting is definately a learning curve, and i'm sure others can relate. Of course, on the other side of the coin, i'm taking full advantage of cheaper 45's, especially with the knowledge/experience i've gained, so it's certainly swings and roundabouts,with many ups+downs in the world of northern soul collecting! Cheers, Carl.

You're not alone Carl. There are many "DJs" currently scrambling for bookings every Friday and Saturday night in UK that did exactly the same. And in fact, still do it. Huge difference between collectors and DJs. Aren't too many in my opinion that can wear both hats properly.

Regards,

Dave

[Chalky]

It's definately a struggle to sell at the moment, and a buyers market for the less in-demand 45's. When i started building up my collection,about 12 yrs ago, i decided to go on a certain sellers website and listen to the sales sound clips. As there were so many sounds i didn't know, i literally started at A and went through the whole alphabet listening to clips-took me fookin ages,as i had a VERY slow pc! Over[a long]time, i bought many of those i really liked/could afford. I had no extensive network of northern soul mates to advise me on prices, but i did use a guide book.........! So i just paid the prices on site. Selling some of those recently, i've found that they are actually worth no where NEAR what i originally paid-for example-Little Hank-Try to understand-paid £150, sold for £60! Now, i don't blame anyone else, apart from my naive,less soul-buying experienced younger self, but since then, after joining Soul Source, ebay, e.t.c., i've realised that much of what i originally bought isn't worth those prices now,and wasn't even worth those prices in the first place. Collecting is definately a learning curve, and i'm sure others can relate. Of course, on the other side of the coin, i'm taking full advantage of cheaper 45's, especially with the knowledge/experience i've gained, so it's certainly swings and roundabouts,with many ups+downs in the world of northern soul collecting! Cheers, Carl.

The market has been falsely inflated since the influx of returnees in the 90's/00's, kids flown the nest and mortgage paid. They paid and in some cases still are paying inflated prices. If they had seen those records in the 80's etc and the quantity that was around, in some cases large quantity's they might have had second thoughts. Add to the equation everyone wanting to be a DJ that further falsely inflates the market.

I don't think many records are or have been devalued, they simply finding their true value.

There will be a lot of disappointed people in the future. If many had stuck to simply collecting then maybe prices wouldn't have gone as crazy as they have over the last 15/20 years.

[Labeat]

Regarding record sales at venues (or lack of) I was at a recent 100 club nighter

and the table at the bottom bar was full of Bloody handbags for sale....

No vinyl in sight, whats all that about?

[Guest penny]

yeh you wouldn't get a job with the mafia if that's his tow you'd launder money using paypal , think you'd soon be " redundant":)

 

No you're wrong so its you who wouldnt get in tbe mafia. 

 

 

yeh you wouldn't get a job with the mafia if that's how you'd launder money using paypal , think you'd soon be " redundant":)

 

?..sorry...you buy rare records with cash, off collectors or dealers - no paper trail.

You sell them on ebay legit. You could be selling an old collection or lucky car boot finds, who can say different?

Its money laundering, not tax evasion. Money launderers are happy to be taxed, their objective Is to disguise illegitimate income as legitimate. Or so I've heard.

Edited December 5, 2013 by penny

[Chalky]

Regarding record sales at venues (or lack of) I was at a recent 100 club nighterand the table at the bottom bar was full of Bloody handbags for sale....No vinyl in sight, whats all that about?

I was surprised by lack of sales at 100 Club when down in Novemeber. Only me and Nick Brown with a box I think, oh and John McClure.

Other nighters not like that though, loads at Radcliffe and Lifeline.

[Pete S]

Add to the equation everyone wanting to be a DJ that further falsely inflates the market.

 

 

 

That's an excellent point.

[Guest penny]

Thats an excellent point.

 

But a bit of a bizarre point. It's dance music, surely demand for the purpose of djing is more valid than pure collecting - stashing them up in a vault for one person's fullfillment.

Its the djing thats kept the thing going, and Is what will keep it going. When its only collectors left into it, it'll be like doo wop, or latin - part of history not real, exciting life.

So what if something like otis lee, which must exist in the 1000s, will one day return to a realistic value of 50 quid...what should people have done, waited til then to play it?

Prices inflate because of demand, there's demand because theres still trends, theres still trends cos theres just about still a scene...

One day, each record will have a value according to its actual rarity, and all will be collated in a great big book. It'll be a great day for the nerds but dull as fucking ditch watter.

I'm not a great fan of hot boxers, as the desire to be a dj seems to be the primary motivation, but at least they're using and sharing and enjoying the fucking things.

If a collection's worth a tenth of current value in 10 years, what are you going to do, laugh at the owner? tut and  Say 'i told you so'. who'll give a f*ck?

They can chuck the records in a skip once no one's dancing no more. They're like money - get it and enjoy it while you can. too much prudent thinking and you'll end up rich and bored.

And having said all that, i cant honestly think of many good records that have gone down in value too much in the last ten years...everything i want's gone up, seems like.

Edited December 5, 2013 by penny

[Len]

 

Too many on here seem to have a problem with anyone who is lucky enough to own any big ticket 45's. Get over it, we would all have them if we were lucky enough to have the money. Well I certainly would anyway. 

 

Good point - People should be careful about knocking anyone, as I see some of it as pure jealousy.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited December 5, 2013 by LEN

[Chalky]

But a bit of a bizarre point. It's dance music, surely demand for the purpose of djing is more valid than pure collecting - stashing them up in a vault for one person's fullfillment.

Its the djing thats kept the thing going, and Is what will keep it going. When its only collectors left into it, it'll be like doo wop, or latin - part of history not real, exciting life.

Maybe but you only have to look at the so called in-demand records and then you realise they simply aren't that rare, Constellations, Ruby Andrews, Ringleaders, Dottie & Millie. M could go on and one with titles but you get the drift. None of them are worth what is being paid, not in terms of rarity.

As for collecting, its been a collecting scene as long as its been a dance scene.

[Kev Cane]

Maybe but you only have to look at the so called in-demand records and then you realise they simply aren't that rare, Constellations, Ruby Andrews, Ringleaders, Dottie & Millie. M could go on and one with titles but you get the drift. None of them are worth what is being paid, not in terms of rarity.

As for collecting, its been a collecting scene as long as its been a dance scene.

Most of the collectors I know Chalky collect Group, Sweet and Deep soul, "Northern" if we are talking globally contributes a small percentage as far as collecting soul records is concerned

 

Kev

[Labeat]

Ever wondered why its called "The Strange World of Northern Soul"?

[Pete S]

But a bit of a bizarre point. 

 

 

Well no not really, because if you think about let's say before the internet revolution and the hundreds / thousands of returnees, there were not really that many DJ's, you only have to check out the old flyers and adverts, you'll see the same names all the time, and the small club scene aka soul nights were quite few and far between...so lets say there were only 100 dj's at the most, there was a good chance they'd all be able to pick up the in-demand tunes.  fast forward to nowadays, almost everyone is a dj and now a thousand people are after the same records instead of a hundred.  That's what I read it to mean when Chalky wrote it anyway.

[Pete S]

Most of the collectors I know Chalky collect Group, Sweet and Deep soul, "Northern" if we are talking globally contributes a small percentage as far as collecting soul records is concerned

 

Kev

 

I could count on one hand the people I know who collect other (soul) stuff apart from Northern.  I can't stand deep soul or sweet soul personally.  But thats just me 

Edited December 5, 2013 by Pete S

[Guest Paul]

I could count on one hand the people I know who collect other (soul) stuff apart from Northern.  I can't stand deep soul or sweet soul personally.  But thats just me 

 

I was almost the opposite when I was dealing, Pete, my focus was mostly on deep soul but of course a lot of the 45s had uptempo tracks on the other sides and no doubt a lot of your northern 45s have great ballads on the flip sides.

 

That's what makes it all so interesting.

 

[Guest drewid]

No you're wrong so its you who wouldnt get in tbe mafia.

?..sorry...you buy rare records with cash, off collectors or dealers - no paper trail.

You sell them on ebay legit. You could be selling an old collection or lucky car boot finds, who can say different?

Its money laundering, not tax evasion. Money launderers are happy to be taxed, their objective Is to disguise illegitimate income as legitimate. Or so I've heard.

err you would have to explain where you got the cash from in the first place , which you would have electronically declared you had by selling your purchases on eBay , nowt to do with paying the tax , it's where you got your money to buy the goods you're selling.so you wouldn't be a great launderer.Believe me if you think the customs and excise boys would fall for that old chestnut you wouldn't stand a chance , you'd have to come up with a better one than that. Or so I'm told Edited December 5, 2013 by drewid

[NEV]

The longer this scene continues, the more records continue to flow onto the market.

The old guard talking about " back in the day, we had to wait for a list and make a phone call " .

Sorry but times have changed, that was then, this is now.. The net has brought all those records by the thousands and to be frank, if you've been a so called " collector" for 40 yr, then most of you have already had or still got those cheap records being discussed!

Who do you think.is gonna buy em?

There isn't a parallel universe full of kids wanting to buy or collect old records.. It's just a case of nobody wants em cos they're too common and easy to pick up for peanuts elsewhere.

The scene is a victim of its own success and the cheap / common records are the fall guys.

're-issues / boots of the rare stuff are crawling out of the woodwork, cd's, mp3 files add to the equation and although the scene might seem like it's doing great, a lot of the nostalgia crowd aren't fussed about what medium it's on, so not buying records, no.matter how cheap.

Like it or not, if it wasn't for the "everyone wants to be a Dj " brigade, the market would collapse!

What exactly is the percentage of collector v Dj, by which I.mean, how many people are true collectors of labels etc, who never sell records unless they are spares?

Out of interest, the other thread, " what makes a great Dj?" .. Soul Sam is up there with the elite Dj's of all time on the soul scene, but is not a collector by the true sense of the word.

It's always been about supply and demand and sadly at this moment in time, there is no demand for records that are readily available on eBay or the many search engine record sites on the net.

The ones I feel sorry for are those who sit on desks at all nighters,trying to sell records that are readily available on the net.. Get real, do what Ian Levine is doing, put em in a box and sell em as a job lot and save someone the postage cost of individual purchases.

[Quinvy]

I could count on one hand the people I know who collect other (soul) stuff apart from Northern.  I can't stand deep soul or sweet soul personally.  But thats just me 

No it's not, it' me as well.

[Quinvy]

The real acid test of how much your collection is worth..........take it to one of the dealers.

When I started buying records again, not sure when it was, probably around 2000. I was on eBay every day and at Tim Browns every week, I wanted everything. I bought one of those bloody huge 500 count aluminium boxes, and I couldn't wait to fill it. This was oldies I was buying, I had been going out to do's for quite a while and I thought that most of the Dj's didn't have a clue, and I was going to show them how it should be done.

Anyway, long story short, I filled the box but couldn't get a spot for love nor money. So I decided to get rid of the oldies and just buy top quality rarities that I was starting to hear as I was now going to allnighters.

Here's my point. I took the box to the big dealers. The left hand side of the box was all the popular oldies that are in demand and fetch anything from £100 to £500. The right hand side were all fabulous tunes but cheapies, on major labels, Ric-tics and the like. The dealers wouldn't even consider the right hand side of the box at any price.

When I added the cost of those records up, I had spent a lot of money with those dealers, yet they were virtually worthless in reality.

[John Reed]

But a bit of a bizarre point. It's dance music, surely demand for the purpose of djing is more valid than pure collecting - stashing them up in a vault for one person's fullfillment.

 

Are you saying that because someone wants to DJ, they have a greater right to own a record than someone who buys/collects records for aural enjoyment or because they just want to?  Both examples give enjoyment and can inflate people’s egos, just in different ways and neither one is more just than the other.

Edited December 6, 2013 by John Reed

[John Moffatt]

The real acid test of how much your collection is worth..........take it to one of the dealers.

When I started buying records again, not sure when it was, probably around 2000. I was on eBay every day and at Tim Browns every week, I wanted everything. I bought one of those bloody huge 500 count aluminium boxes, and I couldn't wait to fill it. This was oldies I was buying, I had been going out to do's for quite a while and I thought that most of the Dj's didn't have a clue, and I was going to show them how it should be done.

Anyway, long story short, I filled the box but couldn't get a spot for love nor money. So I decided to get rid of the oldies and just buy top quality rarities that I was starting to hear as I was now going to allnighters.

Here's my point. I took the box to the big dealers. The left hand side of the box was all the popular oldies that are in demand and fetch anything from £100 to £500. The right hand side were all fabulous tunes but cheapies, on major labels, Ric-tics and the like. The dealers wouldn't even consider the right hand side of the box at any price.

When I added the cost of those records up, I had spent a lot of money with those dealers, yet they were virtually worthless in reality.

Which is pretty much where I came in at the start of this post - can't shift good, but plentiful cheapies. Yet, when I play some of these tunes out, nobody knows them. They've never heard them played. So, they're common yet unplayed. Why is this? Many, it's true, are not up to the mark, but many are. The ethos seems to be, among many DJs (and, by exposure, many punters) that if it isn't a well known 'biggie' (that you probably can't afford) then play a bootleg, rather than search for something good, but cheap. The mindset seems to be that if it's cheap, it can't be any good. (This is easily disproved by the fact that many common cheap records have become 'biggies', and hence acquired a suitably inflated price.) This is ridiculously wrong and very sad, and potentially very damaging. If playlists continue to shrink, as they are doing in many places (the mentality that says "I play what the punters like and the punters like what I play"), then the end is surely nigh.

[Guest john s]

err you would have to explain where you got the cash from in the first place , which you would have electronically declared you had by selling your purchases on eBay , nowt to do with paying the tax , it's where you got your money to buy the goods you're selling.so you wouldn't be a great launderer.Believe me if you think the customs and excise boys would fall for that old chestnut you wouldn't stand a chance , you'd have to come up with a better one than that. Or so I'm told

try reading it again, it does make sense!

[Len]

try reading it again, it does make sense!

 

I'm no expert on Money laundering, but if someone sells a record for say £1,000.00, couldn't they then just say they have had it years and bought it for tenner?

 

That happens in reality, so surely one would get away with it, as long as they don't launder too much.

 

All the best,

 

Len

 

P.s - This has got to be the first thread to discuss Money laundering  

[John Reed]

Record sales can be used in money laundering as can other "commodities" and of the three recognised levels the first and is called "placement" where you get your illegal proceeds and buy an expensive record for cash. Then the buying and selling of records is used to wash the cash through various bank accounts is called "Layering".  Then putting this money back into the system by taking these proceeds and putting them into your bank account as if it came from a reputable source is called "Integration" 

 

I have to do AML training and take a competency test every year...........

Edited December 6, 2013 by John Reed

[davidwapples]

If you have bought a rare record from a dealer a few months ago drop them an email saying that times are hard and you are thinking of selling it to get some cash back . See how much you get back compared to what you paid for it in the first place , then you will realise how much it is really worth

[Len]

If you have bought a rare record from a dealer a few months ago drop them an email saying that times are hard and you are thinking of selling it to get some cash back . See how much you get back compared to what you paid for it in the first place , then you will realise how much it is really worth

 

60% a week later I bet - No problem there really, as they are a business, just as a shop is.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

[Benji]

Len, 30-50% more likely but depending on the tune. The dearer the more you'll get back.

[Premium Stuff]

60% a week later I bet - No problem there really, as they are a business, just as a shop is.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

 

Spot on Len

 

A proper business has all sorts of costs to take into account - is probably VAT registered (20% straight on top there), needs a profit margin on any transaction, might employ people, have premises etc. etc.

 

Richard

[Len]

Len, 30-50% more likely but depending on the tune. The dearer the more you'll get back.

 

Yes I expect it depends on how easily the record will sell on for of course, and your relationship with the dealer would come into it to a point I suppose.

 

Len.

[Guest drewid]

I'm no expert on Money laundering, but if someone sells a record for say £1,000.00, couldn't they then just say they have had it years and bought it for tenner?

That happens in reality, so surely one would get away with it, as long as they don't launder too much.

All the best,

Len

P.s - This has got to be the first thread to discuss Money laundering

actually only started with a jokey reply , don't want to get into a money laundering debate, but I don't think " laundering" is selling the odd item you bought for a tenner ,and sold on at a killing , lol Edited December 6, 2013 by drewid

[Len]

actually only started with a jokey reply , don't want to get into a money laundering debate, but I don't think " laundering" is selling the odd item you bought for a tenner , lol ,

 

 

Yeh of course.....You tell that to the judge  

 

Len