Heard The Rumours

[Pete S]

about Sam Dees on SSS International?

[Guest Dan]

about Sam Dees on SSS International?

no.

tailor-made?

someone's found a million copies?

they're all soussan boots?

er...i give up.

what rumour?

[Guest andycambs]

It's overpriced

[Guest Baz]

I know some one who found a few thousand of these and skiped the lot in the seventys, because they wasn't the typical sound of the day

Come on Pete fill us in

Edited June 23, 2006 by Baz

[Harrogatesoul]

Surely a load has been found? If it isn't that I'm ...........

Rich

[Pete S]

Surely a load has been found? If it isn't that I'm ...........

Rich

[Guest Baz]

Is that a yes or a no come on Pete! spit it out man

How many? hundreds? thousands?

[Guest Simon]

I hope loads have been found then i'll consider buying a copy, always loved this tune & wanted a copy but always felt it was overpriced for the amount of copies around.

Simon

[Guest rachel]

It's not actually Sam Dees?

[Guest Dan]

it's actually an uptempo diana ross pop stomper but somewhere along the line one of the engineers accidentally knocked the pitch down with his elbow?

it was in fact recorded in 1954 and is a heavily-disguised midtempo 'r&b' rock and roller?

ian levine's mum knocked it up in his dad's potting shed in 1976?

al aqaeda have bought up all remaining copies and are busily impregnating them with anthrax before putting them on ebay with a buy-it-now price of $25.99 in a bid to wipe out oldies fans?

it's a da vinci code style, er, code. if you play it backwards it reveals the whereabouts of the unknown west cost haul (not that one, another one) and is really by a scotsman called 'mad seed' (not a perfect anagram, but pretty fucking close to it as richie benaud might say).

come on pete, spill the beans.

[Ted Massey]

it's actually an uptempo diana ross pop stomper but somewhere along the line one of the engineers accidentally knocked the pitch down with his elbow?

it was in fact recorded in 1954 and is a heavily-disguised midtempo 'r&b' rock and roller?

ian levine's mum knocked it up in his dad's potting shed in 1976?

al aqaeda have bought up all remaining copies and are busily impregnating them with anthrax before putting them on ebay with a buy-it-now price of $25.99 in a bid to wipe out oldies fans?

it's a da vinci code style, er, code. if you play it backwards it reveals the whereabouts of the unknown west cost haul (not that one, another one) and is really by a scotsman called 'mad seed' (not a perfect anagram, but pretty fucking close to it as richie benaud might say).

come on pete, spill the beans.

[Guest]

no

[Pete S]

Just wondered if anyone else had heard the same rumours that I had, the last time I made any information public I was literally threatened over the phone so like I say, just wondering if anyone else has heard anything

[Briles]

Just wondered if anyone else had heard the same rumours that I had, the last time I made any information public I was literally threatened over the phone so like I say, just wondering if anyone else has heard anything

I'd be interested to hear the rumour, but don't imagine I will

[Wiganer1]

Just wondered if anyone else had heard the same rumours that I had, the last time I made any information public I was literally threatened over the phone so like I say, just wondering if anyone else has heard anything

=========

we'll threaten you if you dont tell us!!!

[Guest]

=========

we'll threaten you if you dont tell us!!!

He`ll just fukc off in a huff bakc in about a month

[Sean Hampsey]

about Sam Dees on SSS International?

I gave a VG copy to Tats Taylor about 6 years ago.

Is it the cleanest record in his collection?

Sean Hampsey

[SteveM]

He`ll just fukc off in a huff bakc in about a month

(Just to make sure Ken )

again

[SteveM]

I gave a VG copy to Tats Taylor about 6 years ago.

Is it the cleanest record in his collection?

Sean Hampsey

Morning Sean, has Sam contacted you about this ?

[Sean Hampsey]

Morning Sean, has Sam contacted you about this ?

Very Good Steve.

Nope, Not yet.

Hopefully I wont get one of those midnight calls from Mr Dees ever again.

He was one angry guy... and I can't say I blame him.

Anymore controversy and I'm gonna give him your number!!

Sean Hampsey

[Guest]

Just wondered if anyone else had heard the same rumours that I had, the last time I made any information public I was literally threatened over the phone so like I say, just wondering if anyone else has heard anything

threatened over the phone

You were Pete, because starting silly rumours about seriously rare records coming into the country in quantities of 300 or more. Certainly doesn't help the collectors or collecting. Rumours or big fibs created to scarce the markets are usually motivated by jealousy or the fact the rumour instigator requires a copy for himself.

ie The Magnetics on Bonnie etc.

ie If Pete Smith had a copy of Sam Dees at the 'mo this post wouldn't be here.

I'm pretty well informed (some days) and I know of no Sam Dees rumour, I have one on auction at the moment.. so perhaps that means we have 300 copies..yawn zzzzzzzz!

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

It's not actually Sam Dees?

No, that it IS actually Sam Dees....

TONE

[Ted Massey]

threatened over the phone

You were Pete, because starting silly rumours about seriously rare records coming into the country in quantities of 300 or more. Certainly doesn't help the collectors or collecting. Rumours or big fibs created to scarce the markets are usually motivated by jealousy or the fact the rumour instigator requires a copy for himself.

ie The Magnetics on Bonnie etc.

ie If Pete Smith had a copy of Sam Dees at the 'mo this post wouldn't be here.

I'm pretty well informed (some days) and I know of no Sam Dees rumour, I have one on auction at the moment.. so perhaps that means we have 300 copies..yawn zzzzzzzz!

Hi John

i dont blame you for putting your point of view and to some extent its right but you only have to think back a few years to Danny Moore and how many collectors were ripped of by dealers. I almost fell for it and lost one of my big titles in trade for it but thank god a smelt a rat.

Ted

[Pete S]

threatened over the phone

You were Pete, because starting silly rumours about seriously rare records coming into the country in quantities of 300 or more. Certainly doesn't help the collectors or collecting. Rumours or big fibs created to scarce the markets are usually motivated by jealousy or the fact the rumour instigator requires a copy for himself.

ie The Magnetics on Bonnie etc.

ie If Pete Smith had a copy of Sam Dees at the 'mo this post wouldn't be here.

I'm pretty well informed (some days) and I know of no Sam Dees rumour, I have one on auction at the moment.. so perhaps that means we have 300 copies..yawn zzzzzzzz!

Firstly, where do you get that figure of 300 from? I never mentioned that. I said the word MULTIPLE after copies simultaneously turned up on 2 different websites. I wrote about it on KTF where it was probably seen by maybe 70 people tops, probably of whom 3 were collectors. This warranted threats of you taking me to court and making me bankrupt and persuading Craig Moerer to sue me. For suggesting there might be a few copies of a record about.

I've never told anyone about this, I wasn't referring to you at any point during this topic either.

Secondly, I am not motivated by jealousy. I have a copy of Sam Dees. I've got more records at the moment than I've ever had. I didn't know you had one on your auction so I apologise for that. When have I been so petty as to try and sabotage someones auction, you're mixing me up with someone else.

If you haven't heard anything then no problem, I'll get Mick Smith to tell you what he told me when he gets back from Spain. If you do have a problem can you refrain from leaving messages on the answerphone as my missus is upset enough as it is.

[Val (Chunky)]

I heard a rumour that it was just a rumour.......I think!

[Guest]

Hi John

i dont blame you for putting your point of view and to some extent its right but you only have to think back a few years to Danny Moore and how many collectors were ripped of by dealers. I almost fell for it and lost one of my big titles in trade for it but thank god a smelt a rat.

Ted

Tedward I totally agree! On the Danny Moore I myself got into a real tight spot with that title a few years back, when the person who found the first batch of 100s told me he only had two could I sell them for a GRAND each and take a cut. This I did within days..and you've guessed it 100s became available. I was to say the least extremely embarrassed and annoyed.

But Danny Moore and the Dream team are the only two records I can think off the top of my head, that have seriously had there value damaged. But the Dream Team is now on it's way back up in value..Danny Moore will never recover I fear. But that is only TWO titles in the last 8 years or so.. How many have doubled or even quadrupled in value in that period.

Scaring the market is not very smart, but more important not very fair on the collectors who already own copies of records mentioned in unfounded or selfmotivated rumours.

If another Danny Moore situation happens then that is a very small downside to collecting rare soul, that in the whole scheme of things is a drop in the ocean.

Edited June 23, 2006 by john manship

[Pete S]

It's not really a chat forum at all, is it?

[foolish fool]

sean, you call that vg, looks mint to me!

Morning Sean, has Sam contacted you about this ?

[paultp]

But Danny Moore and the Dream team are the only two records I can think off the top of my head, that have seriously had there value damaged. But the Dream Team is now on it's way back up in value..Danny Moore will never recover I fear. But that is only TWO titles in the last 8 years or so..

I thought that a reasonably significant quantity of Tony Hestor demos were found about about 4 years ago - maybe a 50 box? (Is that significant quantity for a rare record? Dunno). A good few apeared on eBay at the time and I bought one for 200 dollars, they were absolutely mint as well. Someone will probably tell me now that they were never rare anyway

Think they've disappeared into peoples collections now though. But that makes three titles

Come on Pete, out with the Sam Dees rumour

[Pete S]

I thought that a reasonably significant quantity of Tony Hestor demos were found about about 4 years ago - maybe a 50 box? (Is that significant quantity for a rare record? Dunno). A good few apeared on eBay at the time and I bought one for 200 dollars, they were absolutely mint as well. Someone will probably tell me now that they were never rare anyway

Think they've disappeared into peoples collections now though. But that makes three titles

Come on Pete, out with the Sam Dees rumour

Things do turn up and they go back up in price again - Betty Lloyd for a start. That thing on Carla. Loads of stuff.

I'm not saying anything else because you can see what it brings with it because people think it's just rumourmongering for the sake of it. It's not, I was told I could buy copies if I wanted to.

[Guest Dan]

Scaring the market is not very smart, but more important not very fair on the collectors who already own copies of records mentioned in unfounded or selfmotivated rumours.

so let me get this straight, john.

it's not fair to 'scare' collectors with 'unfounded rumours' (which, if they're unfounded, will amount to nothing more than rumours that, long-term, have no impact whatsoever on a record's value)?

BUT

it is fair to attempt to censor people who discuss the quantities of records which may or may not be available?

you're having a giraffe, surely?

as a collector, i want all of the latest up-to-the minute rumours, info, facts, scare stories and downright lies, thanks. i'll sort the wheat from the chaff and decide for myself what i believe and what i don't.

[Pete S]

He`ll just fukc off in a huff bakc in about a month

Excuse me Kenneth last time I just walked away quietly, I didn't go off in a huff, and I only came back because thousands of people asked me to

[Simsy]

Steady on lads...

[Guest]

Excuse me Kenneth last time I just walked away quietly, I didn't go off in a huff, and I only came back because thousands of people asked me to

I`m fukced if i`m gonna` apoligise for my good/bad sense of humor live with it Pete

[Mak]

I love reading these type of threads

[Guest sydney bridge]

so let me get this straight, john.

it's not fair to 'scare' collectors with 'unfounded rumours' (which, if they're unfounded, will amount to nothing more than rumours that, long-term, have no impact whatsoever on a record's value)?

BUT

it is fair to attempt to censor people who discuss the quantities of records which may or may not be available?

you're having a giraffe, surely?

as a collector, i want all of the latest up-to-the minute rumours, info, facts, scare stories and downright lies, thanks. i'll sort the wheat from the chaff and decide for myself what i believe and what i don't.

[Val (Chunky)]

so let me get this straight, john.

it's not fair to 'scare' collectors with 'unfounded rumours' (which, if they're unfounded, will amount to nothing more than rumours that, long-term, have no impact whatsoever on a record's value)?

BUT

it is fair to attempt to censor people who discuss the quantities of records which may or may not be available?

you're having a giraffe, surely?

as a collector, i want all of the latest up-to-the minute rumours, info, facts, scare stories and downright lies, thanks. i'll sort the wheat from the chaff and decide for myself what i believe and what i don't.

Me too

[Wiganer1]

Things do turn up and they go back up in price again - Betty Lloyd for a start. That thing on Carla. Loads of stuff.

I'm not saying anything else because you can see what it brings with it because people think it's just rumourmongering for the sake of it. It's not, I was told I could buy copies if I wanted to.

====

doug banks - i just kept on dancing - argo

loads and loads about when a box found a few years back,,,went as low as £40 ,,,paid £60 for mine but still seen over a ton on ebay and the like...

[SteveM]

so let me get this straight, john.

it's not fair to 'scare' collectors with 'unfounded rumours' (which, if they're unfounded, will amount to nothing more than rumours that, long-term, have no impact whatsoever on a record's value)?

Long term maybe Dan. But what about now ? What if you are contemplating a purchase today ?

BUT

it is fair to attempt to censor people who discuss the quantities of records which may or may not be available?

There was no particular information given. We would all have inferred that was the point being made. But it actually wasn't was it ?

you're having a giraffe, surely?

as a collector, i want all of the latest up-to-the minute rumours, info, facts, scare stories and downright lies, thanks. i'll sort the wheat from the chaff and decide for myself what i believe and what i don't.

You didn't actually GET any info Dan. But I take your point about deciding for yourself.

And I realise that this will cost me dearly on one way or another.

[Cunnie]

Royal Esquires, Danny Moore, Patrinell Staten, Jackie Day, Will Collins (on Bareback & Italian pic sleeve), Oxford Knights etc etc.

No dis-respect to JM but if loads of copies have turned up then credit must go to Pete for letting the punters know. After all that's most of us on this site ain't it

[Ted Massey]

Tedward I totally agree! On the Danny Moore I myself got into a real tight spot with that title a few years back, when the person who found the first batch of 100s told me he only had two could I sell them for a GRAND each and take a cut. This I did within days..and you've guessed it 100s became available. I was to say the least extremely embarrassed and annoyed.

But Danny Moore and the Dream team are the only two records I can think off the top of my head, that have seriously had there value damaged. But the Dream Team is now on it's way back up in value..Danny Moore will never recover I fear. But that is only TWO titles in the last 8 years or so.. How many have doubled or even quadrupled in value in that period.

Scaring the market is not very smart, but more important not very fair on the collectors who already own copies of records mentioned in unfounded or selfmotivated rumours.

If another Danny Moore situation happens then that is a very small downside to collecting rare soul, that in the whole scheme of things is a drop in the ocean.

Thing was John you were not the only dealer selling them at a £1000 at the time.The guy who tried to do the trade with me was a very well known collector ,DJ and dealer who i regarded as a mate, mind you i have had some good stuff from him

[Mark B]

I have a copy of sam dees and i honestly feel that it is overpriced not that i would part with it though. i do not think that it is as rare as the price dictates but as we all know this is driven by demand and it has always been in demand.

if there has been copies found i would like to know as then i would not be tempted to buy a spare for trade or selling on.

And another thing on this i thought pete s and john manship were pretty friendly.

funny what money can do

mark

[Guest]

It's not really a chat forum at all, is it?

Yes it is Pete, keep talking mate

[Guest Dan]

so let me get this straight, john.

it's not fair to 'scare' collectors with 'unfounded rumours' (which, if they're unfounded, will amount to nothing more than rumours that, long-term, have no impact whatsoever on a record's value)?

Long term maybe Dan. But what about now ? What if you are contemplating a purchase today ?

personally, i'd be more worried about buying a load of records at inflated prices because information about availability was held back, and then finding out later that i'd been had, than not buying the odd record (and it is the odd record that these rumours relate to) because of a rumour than later turns out to be wrong, steve.

NB not saying anyone is holding back info for personal gain here, this is the principle we're discussing obviously.

BUT

it is fair to attempt to censor people who discuss the quantities of records which may or may not be available?

There was no particular information given. We would all have inferred that was the point being made. But it actually wasn't was it ?

reading the posts as a whole, and not just the initial post, it seems that john is agreeing ringing pete and having a pop at him ('threatened over the phone You were Pete,') because of 'silly rumours about seriously rare records coming into the country'. his general reaction re sam dees seemed to be the fairly similar ('Rumours or big fibs created to scarce the markets are usually motivated by jealousy or the fact the rumour instigator requires a copy for himself. ie If Pete Smith had a copy of Sam Dees at the 'mo this post wouldn't be here.')

anyway, as you say, we can all infer from what's been said that there's loads of sam dees around (or maybe not, if it's all rubbish).

either way, the only people likely to suffer from this rumour (whether true or not) are people trying to sell copies of sam dees. they may find they don't get as much for their copy as they were hoping, it may make no difference, who knows...maybe the price will go up . i doubt the latter, though and i can't see, personally, how it can adversely affect collectors.

which was really the point i was making.

if tesco starts huffing and puffing because the corner shop says it might start selling tins of beans at 10p, i side with the corner shop.

you're having a giraffe, surely?

as a collector, i want all of the latest up-to-the minute rumours, info, facts, scare stories and downright lies, thanks. i'll sort the wheat from the chaff and decide for myself what i believe and what i don't.

You didn't actually GET any info Dan. But I take your point about deciding for yourself.

And I realise that this will cost me dearly on one way or another.

not at all, steve. though i've obviously cancelled that order with nestle

Edited June 23, 2006 by Dan

[Markw]

I`m fukced if i`m gonna` apoligise for my good/bad sense of humor live with it Pete

GROUP HUG!!!????

[Chalky]

Royal Esquires, Danny Moore, Patrinell Staten, Jackie Day, Will Collins (on Bareback & Italian pic sleeve), Oxford Knights etc etc.

No dis-respect to JM but if loads of copies have turned up then credit must go to Pete for letting the punters know. After all that's most of us on this site ain't it

Pat Staten in quantity? Jackie Day I heard 20 odd hardly loads is it.

C'mon Pete spill the beans

[Epic]

GROUP HUG!!!????

It's the friendliness on this scene that makes it all worthwhile - Right On - BROTHERS

Think I'm gonna start collecting records on the BACKBITE label.

[Guest Awake 502]

Happened a few times in the 80's when I used to go to the States with Gary S. We found modern items selling for £100 plus at the time, came back and sold a couple at £50 only for them to appear on a well known list ( not J.M. ) within a couple of weeks for £5. Had to refund money after it turns out the dealer was sat on 100's of copies.

[Guest Bearsoul]

AND WHO SAID SUMMER WAS ENDLESS HOT DAYS WITH NOTHING TO DO....WORLD CUP ! VINYL MYSTERIES ... AND WELL THT'S ABOUT IT REALLY...C'MON PETE...TELL ME IT IS JUST A RUMOUR!!

[Guest Andy BB]

If I was currently bidding on or about to buy a copy of Sam Dees and someone knew of a rumour which meant that the record I was bidding on MAY be about to drop significantly in value I'd be mightily peeved if they hadn't made me aware of it.

Isn't that just fair play?

Would also make sense if anyone selling the record at the time removed it from sale until the rumours could be disproved or substantiated would it not?