Invictus-Hot Wax-Music Merchant Unreleased And Acetate Stuff

[Ian Dewhirst]

Morning All,

 

The good Dean Rudland is currently compiling a lovely 45th Anniversary Box Set of the Invictus/Hot Wax/Music Merchant catalogue and we'd like to try and get a full list of any hitherto unreleased stuff that's floating around out there as we may have a good opportunity to get them out. I know there's been a few interesting acetates just lately like this one:-

 

Eloise Laws - Baby Doll - Acetate

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XX-GrkOBKIE

 

Also I wouldn't mind hearing the following if any one can help?

 

Chairmen Of The Board - What's The Use

100 Proof Aged In Soul - Deliciously Yours

Unknown - What You Gonna Do About Your Love

 

Also there's much talk of an unreleased Brenda Holloway on Music Merchant. Can anyone throw anymore light on this?

 

Naturally all contributors will be fully credited in the finished box, so if anyone can help on any of the above or, in fact anything, that may be of interest in the HDH vaults then please holler!

 

Many thanks in advance.

 

Ian D 

 

[Peter99]

That's nice Ian.

 

 

Peter

[TOAD]

Speak to rob moss he played me some invictus unreleased acetates over the phone and they were good

[Ian Dewhirst]

Speak to rob moss he played me some invictus unreleased acetates over the phone and they were good

 

Nice one Toad, I'll give Rob a buzz.......

 

Ian D 

[Steve G]

Yeah might play a few of mine on the radio Sunday.....

[Ian Dewhirst]

Yeah might play a few of mine on the radio Sunday.....

 

Goodo. Can you hook 'em out Steve? I'm trying to compile a list of as many as possible, as then there's a better chance of locating them in the HDH vaults.....

 

Ian D 

[bluesoulman]

Sorry if a little off topic but....what labels these were....for about a year I had a standing arrangement with Record Corner in Balham to send me all issues on a sale/return basis...inevitably there was some average stuff,but most were very good or better IMHO,although quality did  decline towards the end of their output.Looking forward to this box set!

[boba]

a few years ago on ebay there was a collector liquidating his motown and invicitus collections and he had test presses (not acetates) that he sold of both labels. I got a few unreleased mowest #s I think. Maybe he didn't have invictus test presses but his collection was so complete that it seemed he probably had at least one. I can ask him if he did and who it went to.

[Ian Dewhirst]

a few years ago on ebay there was a collector liquidating his motown and invicitus collections and he had test presses (not acetates) that he sold of both labels. I got a few unreleased mowest #s I think. Maybe he didn't have invictus test presses but his collection was so complete that it seemed he probably had at least one. I can ask him if he did and who it went to.

 

Well I have a couple of hounds that are hopefully getting back to me with their stashes, so really the more the merrier Bob. So yes please. The key thing here is really accuracy on details I guess, i.e. whatever information can be gleaned from the dead wax or acetate labels or any other info. If I'm gonna pay for the tape retrieval, baking, transfers etc, etc and maybe also get a few things that none of us know, then I'll need to supply them with some pretty concise information and even then it'll be tough.

 

Still nothing on this supposed unreleased Brenda Holloway album. Does anyone have any info on this at all?

 

Ian D 

[Alan T]

This thread made me remember i have this, never played it in years. It's a different mix and longer than the one that came out on the album. Don't think it got a 45 release. I'll play it later and see if it is good enough condition to be cleaned up.

[jocko]

Ian pretty sure one of the Scandinavian guys had full collections including unkowns, can't remember name but maybe worth contacting Lasse to see if he knows more.

Immense labels, look forward to this

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian pretty sure one of the Scandinavian guys had full collections including unkowns, can't remember name but maybe worth contacting Lasse to see if he knows more.

Immense labels, look forward to this

 

Yeah, it'd sure be good to have a proper trawl of the vaults armed with some solid leads. Anyway please put the word out, as the more leads the better. I'll contact Lasse and see what he can turn up.......

 

Ian D   

[Sebastian]

Yeah, it'd sure be good to have a proper trawl of the vaults armed with some solid leads. Anyway please put the word out, as the more leads the better. I'll contact Lasse and see what he can turn up.......

 

Ian D   

 

Don't know which Lasse you're referring to (Lasse Bang/Bong?), but I think the scandinavian guy jocko is thinking of is LarsC from Norway, he's on SoulSource, here's an old Invictus thread he started:

 

[jocko]

Don't know which Lasse you're referring to (Lasse Bang/Bong?), but I think the scandinavian guy jocko is thinking of is LarsC from Norway, he's on SoulSource, here's an old Invictus thread he started:

 

 

It was Lasse Bang, I am working on the same theory that English people assume about us Scots, that your countries are so small and friendly you know each other.

 

But yes it was Lars C and that thread I was thinking of, well remembered

[Denbo]

Does anybody know if General Johnson's "Gods Gift To Man" ever saw the light of day as a 45? Test pressing, acetate, etc? Maybe a 10" acetate instead?

[Swifty]

Some on ebay Ian , maybe of some help ?

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Unreleased-ELOISE-LAWS-10-acetate-Baby-doll-LISTEN-/251386535035?pt=UK_Records&hash=item3a87ce1c7b

 

Swifty

[Swifty]

and another

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-INVICTUS-acetate-BARRINO-BROTHERS-I-shall-not-be-moved-LISTEN-/251386536162?pt=UK_Records&hash=item3a87ce20e2

 

[Rob Moss]

'Unreleased INVICTUS/HOT WAX' and 'More unreleased INVICTUS/HOT WAX' on You Tube.

[Steve G]

'Unreleased INVICTUS/HOT WAX' and 'More unreleased INVICTUS/HOT WAX' on You Tube.

 

Job done. No need for us to go pillaging our collections, Ian can do some "research" on Youtube and find em there.....

[Ian Dewhirst]

'Unreleased INVICTUS/HOT WAX' and 'More unreleased INVICTUS/HOT WAX' on You Tube.

Nice one Rob. I'll compile a master list and see how many I can locate...

Ian D

[boba]

i think i have the full label run of released invictus / hot wax records but i don't organize my collection by label so i never printed out the list and went and checked off each one. i guess i should to check if i should add something to my want list.

[Ian Dewhirst]

OK, I managed to snag 10 minutes today and get a first draft of a list together. Here's what I've come up with so far:-

 

Unreleased HDH Masters

 

1) Eeny Meeny - Invictus House Band You Tube Clip

2) I Want To Give You All My Love - Barrino Brothers You Tube Clip

3) What’s The Use - General Johnson You Tube Clip

4) Baby Doll - Eloise Laws You Tube Clip

5) Where There’s A Will (There’s A Way)- Chairmen Of The Board You Tube Clip

6) Well Worth It - Barrino Brothers You Tube Clip

7) Come Back - Honey Cone You Tube Clip

8) You Hurt Me - Dionne Warwicke You Tube Clip

9) Something About You - Barrino Brothers You Tube Clip

10) Too Far To Reach - Dionne Warwicke Acetate

11) Deliciously Yours - 100% Proof Aged In Soul        ?

12) Taster Of The Honey - Honey Cone White Label TP

13) Love Ain’t Gonna Run Away - Lee Charles Unreleased 7209

14) Bright City Lights - Satisfaction Unlimited Unreleased

15) What You Gonna Do About Your Love - Uncredited Acetate

 

Blank Catalogue Numbers

 

Hot Wax - 6905, 6906, 7101, 7107, 7203, 7304

Invictus - 9127, 9131, 1261, 1262, 1266, 1270

 

One thing that is intriguing me somewhat is this:-

 

 

I take it that it's an earlier Detroit version of this:-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCgtudwRoP0

 

Has anyone heard the acetate version?

 

Also I'm curious about the Dionne Warwicke connection? Anyone know the story here?

 

Ian D   

Edited November 27, 2013 by Ian Dewhirst

[jocko]

Ian the Satisfaction Unlimited track is on their album, says he 97.4% sure, but starting to doubt it.

[Sebastian]

 

Unreleased HDH Masters

 

8) You Hurt Me - Dionne Warwicke You Tube Clip

9) Too Far To Reach - Dionne Warwicke Acetate

 

Also I'm curious about the Dionne Warwicke connection? Anyone know the story here?

 

H-D-H produced (and wrote several of the tracks on) her "Just Being Myself" LP on Warner Bros from 1973. That's perhaps where the recordings stem from?

[Phild]

I have vinyl (quality control sample) copies of Eloise Laws - Baby Doll, Bright City Lights / Why - Satisfaction Unlimited and a few others not on the above list

[Phild]

Ian the Satisfaction Unlimited track is on their album, says he 97.4% sure, but starting to doubt it.

 

It is

[Denbo]

 

OK, I managed to snag 10 minutes today and get a first draft of a list together. Here's what I've come up with so far:-

 

Unreleased HDH Masters

 

1) Eeny Meeny - Invictus House Band You Tube Clip

2) I Want To Give You All My Love - Barrino Brothers You Tube Clip

3) What’s The Use - General Johnson You Tube Clip

4) Baby Doll - Eloise Laws You Tube Clip

5) Where There’s A Will (There’s A Way)- Chairmen Of The Board You Tube Clip

6) Well Worth It - Barrino Brothers You Tube Clip

7) Come Back - Honey Cone You Tube Clip

8) You Hurt Me - Dionne Warwicke You Tube Clip

9) Too Far To Reach - Dionne Warwicke Acetate

10) Deliciously Yours - 100% Proof Aged In Soul        ?

11) Taster Of The Honey - Honey Cone White Label TP

12) Love Ain’t Gonna Run Away - Lee Charles Unreleased 7209

13) Bright City Lights - Satisfaction Unlimited Unreleased

14) What You Gonna Do About Your Love - Uncredited Acetate

 

Blank Catalogue Numbers

 

Hot Wax - 6905, 6906, 7101, 7107, 7203, 7304

Invictus - 9127, 9131, 1261, 1262, 1266, 1270

 

One thing that is intriguing me somewhat is this:-

 

 

I take it that it's an earlier Detroit version of this:-

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCgtudwRoP0

 

Has anyone heard the acetate version?

 

Also I'm curious about the Dionne Warwicke connection? Anyone know the story here?

 

Ian D   

 

Ian,

 

What about Honey Cone, and Barrino Brothers, from the You Tube posting 'More Unreleased Invictus / Hot Wax. Why aren't they on your list above?

 

Also, 

 

9) Too Far To Reach - Dionne Warwick Acetate

 

should read 

 

9) Too Far To Reach - Dionne Warwick You Tube Clip

 

and

 

5) Where There’s A Will (There’s A Way)- Chairmen Of The Board You Tube Clip

 

should read

 

5) Where There Is Faith - Chairmen Of The Board You Tube Clip

 

Finally, there's no 'e' at the end of Warwick.   

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian the Satisfaction Unlimited track is on their album, says he 97.4% sure, but starting to doubt it.

 

Yep, I know. I just wondered whether the test pressing was a significantly different mix.....

 

Ian D 

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian,

 

What about Honey Cone, and Barrino Brothers, from the You Tube posting 'More Unreleased Invictus / Hot Wax. Why aren't they on your list above?

 

Also, 

 

9) Too Far To Reach - Dionne Warwick Acetate

 

should read 

 

9) Too Far To Reach - Dionne Warwick You Tube Clip

 

and

 

5) Where There’s A Will (There’s A Way)- Chairmen Of The Board You Tube Clip

 

should read

 

5) Where There Is Faith - Chairmen Of The Board You Tube Clip

 

Finally, there's no 'e' at the end of Warwick. 

 

What you do in haste, you repent at leisure etc, etc. Duly noted Denbo, however:-

 

1) Everything on the You Tube is on the list. I missed the Barrino Bros but have since amended. 

 

2) Too far To Reach - Dionne Warwick. I found an HDH acetate, so that's why it's under acetate.

 

3) I'm pretty sure they got the title wrong on the COTB record hence the change. I may change it back if I can nail it down further.

 

4) I've always had a mental block with Dionne Warwick for some reason. My humblest apologies!

 

Ian D 

[Rob Moss]

 

Apologies Ian. I put the wrong title down on the You Tube clip. BTW there are eight (8) different mixes of 'Baby doll' plus several more unreleased Eloise Laws. ' Don't burn the bridge' 'I think you need love' and 'Easiest way to fall' and 'Well worth it' by Barrino Brothers.

[Sebastian]

Finally, there's no 'e' at the end of Warwick.   

 

On her H-D-H produced stuff there is. Both on the LP and 45s:

 

[Ian Dewhirst]

On her H-D-H produced stuff there is. Both on the LP and 45s:

 

 

Yep. Believe it or not I actually sold one to Sweden last week. Just reissued on CD too I believe.....

 

Ian D 

[Ian Dewhirst]

Chairman scan.jpg

 

Apologies Ian. I put the wrong title down on the You Tube clip. BTW there are eight (8) different mixes of 'Baby doll' plus several more unreleased Eloise Laws. ' Don't burn the bridge' 'I think you need love' and 'Easiest way to fall' and 'Well worth it' by Barrino Brothers.

 

Have you got MP3's on any of those Rob?

 

Ian 

[Denbo]

Yep. Believe it or not I actually sold one to Sweden last week. Just reissued on CD too I believe.....

 

Ian D 

 

And with an 'E' ??? 

[Denbo]

Have you got MP3's on any of those Rob?

 

Ian 

 

Get those added to the list Ian. 

[Jerry Hipkiss]

After a quick listen, isn't the Invictus House Band - Eeny Meeny the same cut that appeared as "Get your house in order" on the flip of "Sitting on a timebomb"?

[Denbo]

On her H-D-H produced stuff there is. Both on the LP and 45s:

 

 

Yeah, that's the American spelling, what do they know.     

[Rob Moss]

I've just put the Eloise Laws stuff up on You Tube.

[Steve G]

Yeah, that's the American spelling, what do they know.     

 

Bullshit Denbo lad -you are as bad as that Dewhirst fella when it comes to guesswork

 

So, Dionne changed the spelling of her name to Warwicke in the early 70s on the advice of her astrologer who thought that the "e" on the end would bring her success. It was because Dionne was married to Bill Elliot at the time and the astrologer thought using the first letter of his surname on the end of hers would bring her success……of course it was a disaster and her Warner Brothers period was nowhere near as successful as her prior period….but there you go…..so after a few years she changed it back to Warwick.

[Rob Moss]

Interesting Steve. I'm sure I read, decades ago, that she added the 'e' so that her name would have to be pronounced that silly American way instead of the correct British way! Didn't know she'd changed it back.

[Steve G]

Interesting Steve. I'm sure I read, decades ago, that she added the 'e' so that her name would have to be pronounced that silly American way instead of the correct British way! Didn't know she'd changed it back.

 

Hi Rob it's in her book "My life as I see it"….ATB Steve

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Well, I may have cloth ears but I can't hear much of a difference to the Invictus House Band...

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DvSnri0tcCk

[Steve G]

Ian the Satisfaction Unlimited track is on their album, says he 97.4% sure, but starting to doubt it.

 

I have a 7" test pressing of this with release number scratched in the deadwax…..def planned as a 7" release.

[Steve G]

Chairman scan.jpg

 

Apologies Ian. I put the wrong title down on the You Tube clip. BTW there are eight (8) different mixes of 'Baby doll' plus several more unreleased Eloise Laws. ' Don't burn the bridge' 'I think you need love' and 'Easiest way to fall' and 'Well worth it' by Barrino Brothers.

 

"I think you need love" I have that on a test press its Invictus 9127 in the run out and I believe it's Freda Payne singing……will need to find it to double check.

[Steve G]

Ian do we get free copies for all this help?  

[Rob Moss]

"I think you need love" I have that on a test press its Invictus 9127 in the run out and I believe it's Freda Payne singing……will need to find it to double check.

 

 

This might help!!

[Steve G]

Laws scan.jpg

 

 

This might help!!

 

Thanks, I need to check which one I have with Inv 9127 in the run out…..will try and find it at the weekend.  

[Ian Dewhirst]

Ian do we get free copies for all this help?

 

You do for sure because I expect you get in that bloody lock-up and dig out some pristine copies 'cos I'll need to scan 'em and maybe master from 'em if I can't dig the tapes up! You're not passing by L.A. anytime soon are you....? 

 

Ian D 

[Ian Dewhirst]

Yeah, that's the American spelling, what do they know.     

 

Err, that's the exact way I spelt it before you corrected me ya scouse wally......

 

Ian D 

[Ian Dewhirst]

I have vinyl (quality control sample) copies of Eloise Laws - Baby Doll, Bright City Lights / Why - Satisfaction Unlimited and a few others not on the above list

 

Can you pull 'em all out please Phil? 

 

Ian D