More Norfolk Soul - East Anglian Stylee This Time

[Roburt]

Anyone on here make it along to these recent talks ...........

https://www.norfolkblackhistorymonth.org.uk/events/2013/how-norfolk-got-the-groove.html

 

Seems like they would have been quite informative, putting a different spin on the the local Norfolk (UK) soul scene back then. 

[Spacehopper]

my auntie and my mums best friend in the early 60s both went with black americans,my dads best friend was a black american called jack frost!...dad had to carry a flick knife through fear of attacks and mum used to get abuse for being a 'n***** lover'..even though she never actually went with a black man

 

my auntie married and moved to the states..sadly fell out with them now but this is where my parents love of jazz soul and reggae came from and then my older brother and both myself grew up through the 70s hearing it and my parents would go to the air bases in norfolk and see the soul bands they brought over,sadly she cant remember any band names

 

as for 'lucas' in the clip..his son was in my class in high school for a few weeks till he was expelled..very funny kid and his dad was a great singer..from 83 to about 86 about 15 of us on scoots would follow him all over norfolk to various pubs and clubs..all the obvious motown and stax stuff but was a great bloke and can still be seen walking around norwich as far as i know

 

dean

[Guest Polyvelts]

I lived on USAF base Sculthorpe in Norfolk for about a year in 72-73. It was a weird enviroment, you paid in dollars and cents at the PX for your Dr Pepper and all the men drank Schlitz beer everyone played baseball ! My mum got a job at the Motor pool, half the guys were black on the base and her boss Master Sargeant Johnny Johnson drove a beautiful  blue Oldsmobile Toronadoe, an stunning car. Everyone got their own cars flown over from home, huge elongated pimpmobiles they'd cruise around the Norfolk countryside in, it was quite a sight.

[Roburt]

There are still active USAF bases in Norfolk (Lakenheath, Mildenhall) but with modern day security measures I don't think Brits can get in to make use of the entertainment facilities anymore.

With the strong US military presence in the area since the 40's, their is a dedicated USAF Library that I believe is in the centre of Norwich. I know the likes of Kenny Hamber played gigs at those bases (& Upper Heyford) in 1991 but it isn't an easy task to ID which other groups, acts played gigs there back in the 60's & 70's. You would think details like which artists played shows there would have been documented but I can't find any details after doing an on-line search. The only thing music related that I could find on the US Library's site was an article about Jimmy Hendrix playing a gig (along with Geno Washington & RJB) at a Norwich pub back around 1967.  

I recall B&S included a 'Stars & Stripes' section in the mag in the early 70's for some months and that section detailed events taking place on US bases over here. I also seem to recall a Wilson Pickett led revue show playing some of the British US bases before doing a couple of shows for the public here. Will have to look out those editions of B&S to see what shows on bases were mentioned at the time.

OF COURSE, lots of US servicemen would get leave on weekends (while over here) & head up to London to sample the clubs there. Lots of others actually formed groups or performed as solo singers on (& off) those bases .... which is how we ended up with the likes of Geno Washington plus others here. 

Edited November 21, 2013 by Roburt

[Autumnstoned]

I recently moved back to the Mustard City but was unaware of the black history month and this event. As said, it would have been interesting to get a different spin on the 60's soul scene in the area. I know that there were some adventurous souls from the city who attended the Wheel which would have been a mission in those days travelling up the hillbilly highway that is the A47.

 

I remember Lucas gigging around the City in the 80's and 90's and saw him a few times. From what I remember his set consisted of soul standards and that he was a pretty decent performer. 

 

I found a link to a Norwich venue which may be of interest. Judging by the pic, Lucas was a " dude " back then. By coincidence, the article in the link refers to one of my late uncle's old bands, The Contours. My Unc' was a session tenor sax player at Anglia TV and The Contours cut a a credible cover of James Brown's - I'll Go Crazy so they were headed in an R&B direction and I remember him saying that they used to gig at the USAF bases. Ah memories - can't get over them!

 

https://www.eveningnews24.co.uk/news/remembering_a_norwich_music_venue_that_played_host_to_the_stars_1_487999

[Spacehopper]

lucas even wore his mac back then!

[Autumnstoned]

I lived on USAF base Sculthorpe in Norfolk for about a year in 72-73. It was a weird enviroment, you paid in dollars and cents at the PX for your Dr Pepper and all the men drank Schlitz beer everyone played baseball ! My mum got a job at the Motor pool, half the guys were black on the base and her boss Master Sargeant Johnny Johnson drove a beautiful  blue Oldsmobile Toronadoe, an stunning car. Everyone got their own cars flown over from home, huge elongated pimpmobiles they'd cruise around the Norfolk countryside in, it was quite a sight.

Hi Rob

When I left school in 1976, I worked on a building site at Mildenhall USAF base where I tasted my first Dr Pepper. One of the black servicemen used to chat with me and I must have talked to him about northern soul records because although he wasn't up on music, he did give me a USAF shirt ( looked a bit like a bowling shirt ) which I wanted to wear at all nighters. As you say, lots of pimpmobiles to be seen then cruising around the Norfolk/Suffolk border.  

Best

Mike

Edited November 21, 2013 by autumnstoned

[Roburt]

Upper Heyford outside Oxford used to be a big US airbase and RAF Croughton (next door to Heyford) is a US spy base. The Yanks pulled out of Upper Heyford in 1992 though they were still flying bombing missions to the Gulf from there in 1991. RAF Croughton is still staffed by the US military.

From 1990 to 92 I used to drive past both bases daily on my way to work in Oxford. I'd be passed by US Cops in a big American car many mornings as they went from base to base or to one of the military housing estates in the area. It always seemed strange being overtaken by a speeding car all badged up as US Military Police on those quiet Oxfordshire back roads. Unfortunately I never got the chance to go on the Heyford base when it was active, though I know some locals did get invites to play ten pin bowling or use the American Diner on the base.  

[Billywhizz]

There are still active USAF bases in Norfolk (Lakenheath, Mildenhall) but with modern day security measures I don't think Brits can get in to make use of the entertainment facilities anymore.

With the strong US military presence in the area since the 40's, their is a dedicated USAF Library that I believe is in the centre of Norwich. I know the likes of Kenny Hamber played gigs at those bases (& Upper Heyford) in 1991 but it isn't an easy task to ID which other groups, acts played gigs there back in the 60's & 70's. You would think details like which artists played shows there would have been documented but I can't find any details after doing an on-line search. The only thing music related that I could find on the US Library's site was an article about Jimmy Hendrix playing a gig (along with Geno Washington & RJB) at a Norwich pub back around 1967.  

I recall B&S included a 'Stars & Stripes' section in the mag in the early 70's for some months and that section detailed events taking place on US bases over here. I also seem to recall a Wilson Pickett led revue show playing some of the British US bases before doing a couple of shows for the public here. Will have to look out those editions of B&S to see what shows on bases were mentioned at the time.

OF COURSE, lots of US servicemen would get leave on weekends (while over here) & head up to London to sample the clubs there. Lots of others actually formed groups or performed as solo singers on (& off) those bases .... which is how we ended up with the likes of Geno Washington plus others here. 

Roburt, i was there on that night of 67 so many people ,billy

[Pete S]

Lucas used to be backed by the Mike Cotton Sound.

Brothers Grimm were also from that area.

[Autumnstoned]

This is " roight  noice " as they say in these parts   

 

[Pete S]

This is " roight  noice " as they say in these parts   

 

 

Yeah great track that - their best

[Autumnstoned]

Yeah great track that - their best

 

Never realised until your earlier post that Lucas was a recording artist. 

[Pete S]

Never realised until your earlier post that Lucas was a recording artist. 

 

Really?  Did a version of Harlem Shuffle as well, on Polydor.

[Roburt]

Roburt, i was there on that night of 67 so many people ,billy

Here's the link to the piece about Jimi Hendrix playing the Orford in Norwich on Thursday 25th January 67 ........

https://2ndair.wordpress.com/2013/10/03/hendrix-at-norwich/

 

Hendrix had been on at the Mojo in Sheffield (a normal Sunday night session; 5/- entry) on 8th January 67, I was in the crowd that night. He'd been on at the Wheel niter on the Saturday night. I saw Hendrix agin (though we really went to see Garnet Mimms) at the Saville Theatre (London) on Sunday 7th May (67) and got to see Lucas + Mike Cotton Sound perform at the Skyline Ballroom in Hull on Thursday 8th June (67).

[Col Wolfe]

Lucas still does the EA pub circuit with his trusty karaoke machine.  

I last saw him in Refreshers on Lower Goat Lane, Norwich a few years ago.  He's a total unit!

 

 

There are still active USAF bases in Norfolk (Lakenheath, Mildenhall)

 

As a pedant, I have to say both of these sites are actually RAF bases that host the USAF and both locations are actually in Suffolk     

[macca]

Our local American base was RAF Alconbury near Huntingdon. A complete housing estate was built south of the river in Peterborough specifically for USAF personnel from this base. Our gardens actually backed onto theirs. This would have been 66-72. At the time I had a black buddy called Tyrone (often wonder where he is now). His mum and dad used to invite me and my brother over to their barbecues in summer. We'd cross from our side through a hole in the fence. The first time I ever tasted pizza was in that house.  They also used to organise house parties with the music blasting out of the windows, James Brown, Motown, Stax stuff I imagine, and though they were servicemen, when in civvies they wore the colourful garb fashionable among US black folks of that time. What a time to be growing up in England...

Edited November 21, 2013 by macca

[Billywhizz]

Here's the link to the piece about Jimi Hendrix playing the Orford in Norwich on Thursday 25th January 67 ........

https://2ndair.wordpress.com/2013/10/03/hendrix-at-norwich/

 

Hendrix had been on at the Mojo in Sheffield (a normal Sunday night session; 5/- entry) on 8th January 67, I was in the crowd that night. He'd been on at the Wheel niter on the Saturday night. I saw Hendrix agin (though we really went to see Garnet Mimms) at the Saville Theatre (London) on Sunday 7th May (67) and got to see Lucas + Mike Cotton Sound perform at the Skyline Ballroom in Hull on Thursday 8th June (67).

yet thats the one,i was young lad of 40 then lol billy

[dthedrug]

Hi All....Loads of good memories of RAF/USAF bases from 68 to 75, went to the Ponderosa Club a few times and the NCOs club on Chicksands, used to knock around with the yanks, the bases were 100% USA, every thing was proper even the COCA COLA was from the States not made under licence, the BARS on the base would take UK money and give you change in $$$, in fact I had some great times, 

The thing I remember the most if you wanted a cigarette you got a whole pack tossed over to you, unlike the british who count how many they have given to you??? and the live soul acts that never toured the UK but did come over to play the BASE CLUBS, and July 4th parties.

DAVE K

[Roburt]

Locals up in Norfolk could also have signed up for a USAF related course that has just finished (though no doubt little of the info detailed in the lectures would have related to visiting entertainers on the bases).

The bases just over the Suffolk border (though many of the personnel who work on them actually live at RAF Feltwell which is a couple of miles away in Norfolk) also had their own newspaper / magazine, Jet48.

Some of the later editions of this are now available on line. I scanned a few issues of it (from 2006) but the only black music related item I have found so far is a piece on a Tim Westwood visit to the base ...... see Page 7 here >>  https://www.lakenheath.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-070112-011.pdf

Edited November 23, 2013 by Roburt

[Bossfourpart1]

I believe there is a nice write up on Mr.Lucas in soul up North, worth a read.

Lucas is still about in Norwich as mentioned earlier. I used to see doing the Pub circuit during the 80ts , great smooth voice and a really nice guy.

A mate of mine recently dug up a copy of one of his numbers that he hadn't heard for years. Quite an emmotional moment for Lucas as he reflected back to the day he recorded it.

I do recall some USAF guys taking a hiding from some locals outside Pennies Night club at 01.00 am on a Sunday morning "in 1984" . Quite a brawl !!

There was mention of J Hendrix doing a gig in a Pub in Dereham Norfolk in the 6ts.

Lots of history in Norfolk with USAF (and a little in Suffolk)

interesting stuff.

cheers Frank

[Roburt]

A ticket for a show staged @ the Nite Owl in Leicester on 24th March 67.

It was a long time ago & I can't even remember how I ended up with this as I didn't start attending sessions at the Nite Owl till May 67.

No idea who was backing Lucas up that night (probably Mike Cotton Sound though).

 

[Autumnstoned]

Did a bit of detective work and contacted Garry Freeman, lead singer of my late Unc's old band The Contours. ( I found out today they were advised to change their name firstly to The Anglians, a name they apparently never liked , to The Moving Finger, which I think is sounds a bit moddish ) Turns out that The Anglians and The Moving Finger had major label contracts, albeit rather short lived, with both CBS and Mercury respectively. The Anglians CBS release includes a very credible cover of A Friend Of Mine written by Joshie Armstead, Nick Ashford & Valerie Simpson. I'd never heard of it but obviously recognised the songwriters although surprisingly Garry was unaware of their songwriting history and significance on the soul scene. He also showed me an acetate/emidisc of The Moving Finger's covers of Higher & Higher and Shake & Fingerpop. Again they are pretty decent attempts at dance music with a soul flavour. When I get more time and Garry's permission, I'll upload them to YouTube. He did say i could upload the James Brown cover so i've posted it here if anyone is interested in listening to it. 

 

Garry told me that there wasn't an established soul scene in Norwich in the mid sixties but that he was a fan of Wilson Pickett and Otis Redding and because The Contours gigged at the American bases, their set included a lot of soul and R&B.

 

I've attached a cutting regarding the American Airbase gigs and some scans of the acetates/emidiscs.

 

An interesting afternoon.

 

 

[Pete S]

The Moving Finger 45 on Mercury used to be easy to find in the 80's, I think I paid £3 for it and sold it for £5, nowadays it goes for considerably more and was even bootlegged / counterfeited on a Mercury lookalike.  He could get a good sum of money for the acetates if he sold them.  That is the first time I've seen a stock copy of the Anglians 45.

[Autumnstoned]

The Moving Finger 45 on Mercury used to be easy to find in the 80's, I think I paid £3 for it and sold it for £5, nowadays it goes for considerably more and was even bootlegged / counterfeited on a Mercury lookalike.  He could get a good sum of money for the acetates if he sold them.  That is the first time I've seen a stock copy of the Anglians 45.

 

Hi Pete

I was gonna ask you whether you'd heard of The Anglians. I've got Terry Rawlings British Beat but for some reason it misses the letter 'A' and starts at The Beatstalkers   Their cover of A Friend Of Mine is surprisingly very good. The Moving Finger cuts didn't move me on first hearing but the demo of Shake & Fingerpop could probably work on the exotica/psyche scene although it could do with an edit where some of the hammond is lacking . The Higher & Higher demo could also work. I'll sort out an edit and send it to you as I'd value your opinion on it. I am going to speak to Garry again because when I left I'd not heard the Anglians track or the Higher & Higher demo ( I had a bit of a technical problem ripping a copy of his disc with them on although the tracks were there on my hard drive when i got home ) and I want to tell him that I think they're really good. I did tell him that I thought the acetates could be worth a few quid. 

Best

Mike