Incredibles - Audio Arts Boot ? Help Wanted

[Kegsy]

Incredibles  There's Nothing Else To Say   Audio Arts Green label.

 

Just been given cause to question whether the copy I have is a boot.

 

The song title is on one line, whereas other copies have the title across

two lines in larger type.

 

Is the format of the song title a definite reason for it to be a boot or not.  

 

If I look in John's book I would assume its a boot.

There are no matrix marks listed in John's book for the green original.

However I bought it in the States donkeys yonks ago and it has a drill/BB hole in the label.

If its a boot its the first boot I've ever seen with a drill/BB hole.

 

Anyone ever seen a boot with BB hole ?

 

Just to confuse a little bit more the Blue label copy which was not booted has the

title on one line not across 2.

 

Are there East/West coast varients or any of the usual pressing

plant issues that cause differences in releases.

 

 

What do you people think ?

 

Kegsy

Edited November 18, 2013 by Kegsy

[Pete S]

Kegsy, all you need to do (with the green one) is look at the label, if it's not completely smooth i.e. small rough patches, it's the boot.

I've had boots with drill holes in, people put them in to make them look authentic

[Kegsy]

Kegsy, all you need to do (with the green one) is look at the label, if it's not completely smooth i.e. small rough patches, it's the boot.

I've had boots with drill holes in, people put them in to make them look authentic

 

 

Do you mean all over the label as it looks smooth to me, are rough patches immediately obvious ?.

If I look very closely around the centres hole there are a couple of very small patches but

they are hardly obvious unless looking really closely for them.

 

Kegsy

[Pete S]

Do you mean all over the label as it looks smooth to me, are rough patches immediately obvious ?.

If I look very closely around the centres hole there are a couple of very small patches but

they are hardly obvious unless looking really closely for them.

 

Kegsy

 

Yeah all over there are small patches where the label is rough, it's hard to explain

[Soul-slider]

Original...

 

The boot is a slightly darker shade of green and as Pete say's, patchy label 

Edited November 18, 2013 by Soul-Slider

[Guest trickbag]

 

INCREDIBLES - There's Nothing Else To Say b/w Another dirth deal - AUDIO ARTS 

This is the great looking AUDIO ARTS vinyl boot from the mid 70's

***Hard to tell BUT it is definitely a boot***

 

dont know if this will help.

 

ricky.

[Chris L]

Kegsy, all you need to do (with the green one) is look at the label, if it's not completely smooth i.e. small rough patches, it's the boot.

I've had boots with drill holes in, people put them in to make them look authentic

 

Quite right Pete, the boots have pitting on the vinyl under the label. This is a boot.

What about this one then, legit re-issue ?

Edited November 18, 2013 by Chris L

[Soul-slider]

Another tell tale sign is that the 'window' box art on the label, on the boot it is slightly to the right of the center hole. On the original it sits perfectly in the middle.

[Kegsy]

Original...

incredibles.jpg

 

The boot is a slightly darker shade of green and as Pete say's, patchy label 

 

 

 

INCREDIBLES - There's Nothing Else To Say b/w Another dirth deal - AUDIO ARTS 

This is the great looking AUDIO ARTS vinyl boot from the mid 70's

***Hard to tell BUT it is definitely a boot***

 

dont know if this will help.

 

ricky.

 

 

There's even more confusion now as the pale one has a prominent ring around the centre hole on the original.

Mine has the ring.

The boot pictured does not have evidence of this ring.

 

Manship mentions the prominent ring on the original and lack of it on the boot.

 

Kegsy

[Soul-slider]

Kegsy, does the 'window' art on the label sit nice and perfect above the center of the hole on your copy? 

Edited November 18, 2013 by Soul-Slider

[Pete S]

There's even more confusion now as the pale one has a prominent ring around the centre hole on the original.

Mine has the ring.

The boot pictured does not have evidence of this ring.

 

Manship mentions the prominent ring on the original and lack of it on the boot.

 

Kegsy

 

You can see the patches on the label in that photo though, especially top right.  I'm sure the matrix details will differ as well though.

[Kegsy]

Another tell tale sign is that the 'window' box art on the label, on the boot it is slightly to the right of the center hole. On the original it sits perfectly in the middle.

 

 

Are you 100% sure about this.

I have just checked several other Audio Arts records inc. duplicates of

the same title and the window is not in the same place on any of them.

Sometimes left or right and higher/lower in  relation to

the centre hole.

[Kegsy]

You can see the patches on the label in that photo though, especially top right.  I'm sure the matrix details will differ as well though.

 

 

Mine does not have any of that gubbins 98% of the label is perfect and flat except

for a very small patch between the prominent ring and the centre hole.

[Soul-slider]

Are you 100% sure about this.

I have just checked several other Audio Arts records inc. duplicates of

the same title and the window is not in the same place on any of them.

Sometimes left or right and higher/lower in  relation to

the centre hole.

Not 100% mate but if you look at all the images of the boots on this thread and look at the original copy you can see the differnce in the position. The original scan I posted is not my copy but I just pulled mine out of my box and it sits in the same position, dead center over the hole. Mine also has the prominent 'ring'.  

[Kegsy]

Original...

incredibles.jpg

 

The boot is a slightly darker shade of green and as Pete say's, patchy label 

 

Trouble is there are other Audio Arts releases that were never booted

that use a slightly darker green too.

 

 

Is there an original with the one line title and darker green label ?.

If not why doesn't Manship just say all single line title ones are boots ?.

 

Kegsy

[Kegsy]

. The original scan I posted is not my copy but I just pulled mine out of my box and it sits in the same position, dead center over the hole. Mine also has the prominent 'ring'.  

 

 

But does it have a one or two line song title.

Kegsy

[Swifty]

Found this 'Sharp End of the Vinyl' and some of Rogers' brilliant scans and info , maybe of some help

 

 

Swifty

[Sebastian]

If the deadwax has got three turns and is 13,88 mm wide plus that the "7078 A" in the deadwax lacks the "bar" in the A and looks like an upside down "V" instead of an "A" then it is a BOOTLEG.

 

If it deadwax has got four turns it is the ORIGINAL.

[Kegsy]

Found this 'Sharp End of the Vinyl' and some of Rogers' brilliant scans and info , maybe of some help

 

 

Swifty

 

 

Thanks for that I am now convinced mine is an original as it has

none of the label bubbling or whatever it is and is the same as

the one line title copy on the thread.

 

Kegsy

[Kegsy]

If the deadwax has got three turns and is 13,88 mm wide plus that the "7078 A" in the deadwax lacks the "bar" in the A and looks like an upside down "V" instead of an "A" then it is a BOOTLEG.

 

If it deadwax has got four turns it is the ORIGINAL.

 

confused again now, as the deadwax on mine is 11mm and the same matrix as above.

Difficult to tell if its three or four turn deadwax as the last 2 are very close together.

 

Why would the two varients one/two line title have the same runout/deadwax characteristics since

they would obviously be pressed at different plants ?.

 

Is the four turn deadwad the two line title ?

Whats the runout like on the white demo ?

Whats the runout like on the original one line title ?.

Whats the runout like on the original two line title ?

 

Kegsy

Edited November 18, 2013 by Kegsy

[Soul-slider]

Thanks for that I am now convinced mine is an original as it has

none of the label bubbling or whatever it is and is the same as

the one line title copy on the thread.

 

Kegsy

Kegsy, yours is the same as mine then. Here's mine, definite original.

I've had the boot also and compared them side by side, loads of differences.

 

My original copy...

[Kegsy]

Kegsy, yours is the same as mine then. Here's mine, definite original.

I've had the boot also and compared them side by side, loads of differences.

 

My original copy...

img841.jpg

 

 

Yes mine is exactly the same although what Sebastian has said about the matrix has confused me again.

Whats the matrix on yours.

 

Kegsy

[Chris L]

Another tell tale sign is that the 'window' box art on the label, on the boot it is slightly to the right of the center hole. On the original it sits perfectly in the middle.

 

Well spotted.............

[Sebastian]

confused again now, as the deadwax on mine is 11mm and the same matrix as above.

Difficult to tell if its three or four turn deadwax as the last 2 are very close together.

Why would the two varients one/two line title have the same runout/deadwax characteristics since

they would obviously be pressed at different plants ?.

 

Ofcourse there are deadwax differences between the two-line/one-line issues.

 

You wrote that you had the one-line green issue.

 

Why would I answer your question with info regarding a different issue than the one you have?

 

If your deadwax is 11mm and not 13,88mm then yours is an original.

 

Does your copy really have an upside down looking "V" instead of a proper "A" in the deadwax?

[Soul-slider]

The matrix on mine is as Sebastian has described.

I got mine straight from the States with a few other originals donkeys years ago. 

As I said, I have had the darker green, crumbly label boot and compared it with mine, very different.

[Soul-slider]

oh, my deadwax is 10/11mm wide.

[Sebastian]

oh, my deadwax is 10/11mm wide.

 

= original.

[Kegsy]

 

 

If your deadwax is 11mm and not 13,88mm then yours is an original.

 

Does your copy really have an upside down looking "V" instead of a proper "A" in the deadwax?

 

 

Yes it does have the V not an A.

Kegsy

[Pete S]

Someone please kill me

[Kegsy]

Someone please kill me

 

 

Just thinking the same myself, wtf am I doing measuring deadwax etc on a Monday morning.

I have e-mailed ovenchips to see if he can shed any light.

 

Kegsy