Willie Tee - First Taste Of Hurt

[Jaco]

Who, when, where for this sublime piece of music.

 

Dave Thorley?

 

Stafford?

 

Ta much

[Jaco]

Come on guys!

 

Must be some info as to where and when this was brought to the masses, surely.

[Mick Sway]

As they say on QI, apparently "nobody knows!"

 

If memory serves isn't there a Green Gator release with a different B/W to Funky Twist?

 

Might be rarer but the alternative mix is not as punchy for me as the fabulous Green label version.:

Top tune anyway though.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Mick Sway

[Theothertosspot]

Bought mine off Soul Sam (green issue) in the 90's at Bretby, also got George Benson (Woman's good to me), £20 each think.

 

Never heard the Willie Tee played out at that time but knew of the record.

 

Regards

Edited February 6, 2014 by theothertosspot

[Dave Pinch]

As they say on QI, apparently "nobody knows!" If memory serves isn't there a Green Gator release with a different B/W to Funky Twist? Might be rarer but the alternative mix is not as punchy for me as the fabulous Green label version.:Top tune anyway though.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2M6CNDRIqfE

Released in 1970 with I'm having so much fun on the flip then a year later as the flip of funky funky twist... Both are the same version..

[John May]

Bought mine off Soul Sam (green issue) in the 90's at Bretby, also got George Benson (Woman's good to me), £20 each think.

 

Never heard the Willie Tee played out at that time but knew of the record.

 

Regards

I would say early nineties too, think i got mine from Bretby also, remember Chris Anderton playing it there, maybe that was the place.

 

John

[Guest in town Mikey]

Please Don't Go was played at Stafford (Steve Smith?) I think maybe Yate too, hence thinking it was Steve.

 

First Taste Of The Hurt, may have been played but I certainly can remember it being played at the 100 club in the late 90s.

[Mal C]

Think First Taste of Hurt  was deffo played allot in the 9ts and I heard it at the 100 club on may occasion Mike.

 

It was on lots of sales lists I used to get in the early 9ts,  £30 quid back then, as was loads of others that go for £200 plus today..  I used to get allot from a chap called Mike Stanley, all of the 45's I got off him have rocketed, Huns Review for £40, Little Gigi again £40, Wade Flemmons on Ramsel for £40 the list goes on...I mentioned Flowers - For Real for £2 on John Doe's list...!!

 

shame I sold em all...

 

Malcolm

[jocko]

_{I keep thinking Stafford, but probably more likely the early crossover guys Mr Dearlove etc, so late 80's. It was definitely being played in the Southport soul room by end 90/91 as were so many of these records.}

[Guest Ivor Jones]

_{I keep thinking Stafford, but probably more likely the early crossover guys Mr Dearlove etc, so late 80's. It was definitely being played in the Southport soul room by end 90/91 as were so many of these records.}

 

. I certainly don't remember anyone touching this at Stafford eitherIt just wasn't on the "Northern" radar….I don't really think you can pinpoint where this was first spun, it definitely got plays from the Modern scene at London and NorthWest venues like the Norfolk Village, Parkers hotel in Manchester and all of the other unsung functions which championed these type of records at the time. A truly great record to be proud of. I can distinctly remember Dean Johnson bigging this up as well in his reviews column Rod Dearlove's Voices[at least I think it was Voices] mag around the time too.

 Regarding the different versions of FTOH, the earlier Blue label version is undoubtedly rarer than the oft seen green one[with Funky Funky Twist on the flip] but its inferior musically. The earlier green version with Im Having So Much Fun on the flip is probably the rarer of the three and without doubt the best one to have. Funky Funky Twist is pretty good too, much better than the title would suggest. 

  I met Willie Tee with his family when he played Londons Jazz Cafe,they were really nice,very warm and genuine. I was gutted to hear after how they lost everything in the Katrina New Orleans disaster and Willie's passing sometime soon after…..One of Soul Music's greats for sure and sadly missed.

 Ivor

[Dave Pinch]

. I certainly don't remember anyone touching this at Stafford eitherIt just wasn't on the "Northern" radar….I don't really think you can pinpoint where this was first spun, it definitely got plays from the Modern scene at London and NorthWest venues like the Norfolk Village, Parkers hotel in Manchester and all of the other unsung functions which championed these type of records at the time. A truly great record to be proud of. I can distinctly remember Dean Johnson bigging this up as well in his reviews column Rod Dearlove's Voices[at least I think it was Voices] mag around the time too.

 Regarding the different versions of FTOH, the earlier Blue label version is undoubtedly rarer than the oft seen green one[with Funky Funky Twist on the flip] but its inferior musically. The earlier green version with Im Having So Much Fun on the flip is probably the rarer of the three and without doubt the best one to have. Funky Funky Twist is pretty good too, much better than the title would suggest. 

  I met Willie Tee with his family when he played Londons Jazz Cafe,they were really nice,very warm and genuine. I was gutted to hear after how they lost everything in the Katrina New Orleans disaster and Willie's passing sometime soon after…..One of Soul Music's greats for sure and sadly missed.

 Ivor[/quote

The green version was first as an 'A' side. The blue came later as the flip of funky funky twist also... Bought both my green and blue funky funky twists from Gary smelt at £10 and £20 respectively

[Eddie Hubbard]

Bought my first copy with " I'm having so much fun " on the flip as " fun " was on an Ian Dewhirst sales list at £8 described as " literally my favourite record of all time" so thought it would be worth a punt .Got it off Soul Bowl for £3 , this was about 1983 ? My second copy with " Funky funky twist " on the flip was a gift from a friend who had multiple copies in his loft .

[Chalky]

Dave Thorley at Stafford.

 

i bought my copy in the 80's and was playing it out late 80's and early 90's.  Sold it around 93.

Edited February 6, 2014 by chalky

[Mick Sway]

Mine was £50 from John Manship about 10 years ago.

Lyrically just a great record, well sung.

Could someone clarify if the blue label release is a different cut or just a different pressing?

Always great to see a discussion about a tune as good as this.

TFS

[Chalky]

Please Don't Go was played at Stafford (Steve Smith?) I think maybe Yate too, hence thinking it was Steve.

 

First Taste Of The Hurt, may have been played but I certainly can remember it being played at the 100 club in the late 90s.

Please Don't Go played by a few including Clarky and Pat. 

[John Benson]

"Please don't go" was a regular spin at the Clifton Hall in Rotherham which would make it late 1980 onwards. 

[Guest Matt Male]

I heard 'I'm having so much fun' first and 'First taste of hurt' much later. Love both sides. Rare record though.

[Dave Pinch]

Mine was £50 from John Manship about 10 years ago.

Lyrically just a great record, well sung.

Could someone clarify if the blue label release is a different cut or just a different pressing?

Always great to see a discussion about a tune as good as this.

TFS

blue first taste is a different recording mick....not sure where it fits in ... the gatur 555/556/557 releases are 1970/early 71..then the label went to sleep for about 9 months then started back again in late 71 into 1972 with 509/510/511/512..all the releases are green. i personally think the blue release came out inbetween these two sets of releases. gatur ran for quite a few years but was dormant for long periods ( when distribution deals fell apart etc).. it started with i peeped your hole card in 1968 originally i think

[Guest Ivor Jones]

 

Thanks Dave…..Regarding that Blue label version of FTOH. Ive always assumed it was the first version for the simple fact that it isn't as good as the Green labelled version.Thats just my opinion of course which doesn't mean anything. However,I still believe it to be true because I think:

A] It looks earlier to me,and,

B] I believe that Willie decided that even though it was good it could be improved and he re-recorded it and put the newer,better version out on the green labelled releases.He obviously had faith in the song to put it out three times didn't he ? The fact that the Green version came out twice I think backs this up.I think all artists want to be satisfied with their released recordings and that is what I believe happened here…..

  Id love to know for sure though…..

 The weirdest thing is that "You Got To Pay Some Dues" release  by him that Butch plays….such a great record to disappear into obscurity isn't it ?

Wille Tee R.I.P.

Ivor

[Jordirip]

.

 

 

 

How did this masterpiece get buried into obscurity? It's criminal that tunes of this calibre didn't make it.

 

[ockers]

Blue version rod put on a tape for me back in 89 bless him wonderful tape it was too a real rare soul paradise Joseph Webster primrock skiggs blue sream lashawn collins etc

[Cover-up]

I might be getting mixed up, but was there not another thread on this blue label version where it was suggested it was actually a completely different singer?

[Jordirip]

I might be getting mixed up, but was there not another thread on this blue label version where it was suggested it was actually a completely different singer?

 

You must be getting mixed up. It's Wiilie Tee alright, just a different take.

[Dave Pinch]

Thanks Dave…..Regarding that Blue label version of FTOH. Ive always assumed it was the first version for the simple fact that it isn't as good as the Green labelled version.Thats just my opinion of course which doesn't mean anything. However,I still believe it to be true because I think:

A] It looks earlier to me,and,

B] I believe that Willie decided that even though it was good it could be improved and he re-recorded it and put the newer,better version out on the green labelled releases.He obviously had faith in the song to put it out three times didn't he ? The fact that the Green version came out twice I think backs this up.I think all artists want to be satisfied with their released recordings and that is what I believe happened here…..

  Id love to know for sure though…..

 The weirdest thing is that "You Got To Pay Some Dues" release  by him that Butch plays….such a great record to disappear into obscurity isn't it ?

Wille Tee R.I.P.

Ivor

the blue funky twist i believe to be before the green funky twist but its later than i`m having so much fun of which first taste was actuallly the `A` side in early 71...i think both recordings of first taste were probably recorded around the same time but the `classic` green version as we know it was issued 1st ..then later as a throw away flip (lol) to funky twist. the `canned` blue version maybe came out in error when gatur resurfaced again but when the label quickly realised the mistake and issued the green funky twist copies..then thruout 72 there were further green releases by willie tee and the gaturs including the brilliant reworking of teasin you

[Guest Ivor Jones]

the blue funky twist i believe to be before the green funky twist but its later than i`m having so much fun of which first taste was actuallly the `A` side in early 71...i think both recordings of first taste were probably recorded around the same time but the `classic` green version as we know it was issued 1st ..then later as a throw away flip (lol) to funky twist. the `canned` blue version maybe came out in error when gatur resurfaced again but when the label quickly realised the mistake and issued the green funky twist copies..then thruout 72 there were further green releases by willie tee and the gaturs including the brilliant reworking of teasin you

 

Hello again Dave. I'd love to know for sure just out of curiosity. Id be surprised if the Blue one came out unintentionally seeing as it was his label though.He must have personally chosen what to put out. I think its more likely that he just thought it could be improved upon and just re-recorded it.Or, perhaps,went with the earlier version again as you say. Regarding the order in which they came out…Is that definitely right that the blue one was sandwiched in the middle of the other two. Is that from matrix numbers or something ?  Not being funny like, I genuinely don't know…..

Best, Ivor

[Seano]

Bought my first copy with " I'm having so much fun " on the flip as " fun " was on an Ian Dewhirst sales list at £8 described as " literally my favourite record of all time" so thought it would be worth a punt .Got it off Soul Bowl for £3 , this was about 1983 ? My second copy with " Funky funky twist " on the flip was a gift from a friend who had multiple copies in his loft .

Mine came from the same loft and the same friend.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Bought my first copy with " I'm having so much fun " on the flip as " fun " was on an Ian Dewhirst sales list at £8 described as " literally my favourite record of all time" so thought it would be worth a punt .Got it off Soul Bowl for £3 , this was about 1983 ? My second copy with " Funky funky twist " on the flip was a gift from a friend who had multiple copies in his loft .

 

I found it in L.A. in '76. It was too messy for plays in the 70's so it sat on my shelves until Sam bought it off me sometime in the mid 80's I believe.........

 

Ian D 

[Dave Pinch]

Hello again Dave. I'd love to know for sure just out of curiosity. Id be surprised if the Blue one came out unintentionally seeing as it was his label though.He must have personally chosen what to put out. I think its more likely that he just thought it could be improved upon and just re-recorded it.Or, perhaps,went with the earlier version again as you say. Regarding the order in which they came out…Is that definitely right that the blue one was sandwiched in the middle of the other two. Is that from matrix numbers or something ?  Not being funny like, I genuinely don't know…..

Best, Ivor

no i`m not  100% sure which funky funky twist came first blue or green,only that all the other green releases from 508 to 513 all look the same,, i do know the `55` series is before the 50/51 series all issued in 1970.....the 50/51 releases are 1971 & 1972....whats even stranger is why they would use the blue label and put a different mix as a b side..as i said earlier first taste came as an `A` side originally in 1970 with i`m havin so much fun on the flip....the blue and green first tastes have the same matrix (1005) which is odd as really it should be different..........bloody hell it is confusing isnt it..looking at it now the blue release could be after all the green releases possibly from late 1972 and regurgitated as an `A` side and gatur on a budget couldnt be arsed to change the label info .....i think the label went into mothballs again after that for a while

[Chalky]

Everything you read says that blue was first but I have my doubts.  The label changed from yellow for the Brenda George to green for the Gaturs, why change to blue and then back to green for subsequent releases?  Unless they weren't happy with green so changed to blue?  They were then even less happy with blue so back to green?  They even changed the layout for the blue release.  Logically this wouldn't make sense to change and then change back, logic would say the green were first whilst the label was active and the blue later.  What colour was "Peeped"?

[Chris Turnbull]

For me First Taste of Hurt sits alongside a number of other high end crossover items that all seemed to take off around the same time c. 1993/4 i.e. George Hughley 'That's why I cry', Richard Caiton 'I like to get near you', Milton Parker 'Women like it harder', Chuck Cockerham 'Have I got a right', Lashawn Collins 'What you gonna do'.

 

IMO I would trace it back to Rod Dearlove Voices / Canal Tavern, then probably 'across the board' venues like Pitches, plus 100 Club where Mick Smith was playing George Hughley for example.

 

Also Richard Searling was playing FTOH plus numerous others of these on his Sunset Radio show around that time plus at early Cleethorpes w/enders so probably had a hand too

 

Got my FTOH from John Powney in 1994 for £40, which was an unheard of sum from JP - worth every penny though!

[Tricky]

Chalky

 

 

Brenda George is a different Gatur i thought.West Coast.

[Chalky]

Chalky

 

 

Brenda George is a different Gatur i thought.West Coast.

 

 

Yep you are right, Miles Grayson.

 

I still doubt they changed the colour and layout for one release then changed it back again?  Not to say they didn't though just logically you would think not.

[mshoals]

The blue copy has "GR-1672-A" and "GR-1672-B" in the runout and "1005" on the label (both sides).

 

The green version with Funky, Funky Twist has "1005" on the label (both sides) and "GR-1672-A" in the runout of FFT and "GR-1672-B-R", "1005-2" in the runout of the FTOH side. I don't have the third version, but this seems to indicate that the blue 509 release was earlier than the green 509 release.

[neckender]

Come on guys!

 

Must be some info as to where and when this was brought to the masses, surely.

I found 200 copies in a record shop in the late 8ts.  I left 100 behind, thinking that they were hard to move (as they were then, even at £4)  I know there were a few blue label copies in there, but at the time i didn't realise that they were a different version.  Initially, I used to ask anyone who wanted to buy a copy, 'which colour label they wanted'  It really was a different collectors scene then.

[Sean Hampsey]

I found 200 copies in a record shop in the late 8ts.  I left 100 behind, thinking that they were hard to move (as they were then, even at £4)  I know there were a few blue label copies in there, but at the time i didn't realise that they were a different version.  Initially, I used to ask anyone who wanted to buy a copy, 'which colour label they wanted'  It really was a different collectors scene then.

Jim Russell's will have had a stack back then. I left a dozen Willie Tee 'Walkin' on Nola for 5 bucks each, thinking nobody would have wanted them.

[Sean Hampsey]

 

 

IMO I would trace it back to Rod Dearlove Voices / Canal Tavern, then probably 'across the board' venues like Pitches, plus 100 Club where Mick Smith was playing George Hughley for example.

 

 

We all had it (and hammered it) back at Pitches. Copies were around for about a tenner. Think we were introduced to it some years earlier by a young Danny Spedding at Capones. Danny was a real enthusiast and always had a good ear.

 

 

Sean

[Dave Pinch]

I peeped your hole card is green.. came out via dover records in 1968. The 1st issue of first taste came out in 1970 as the a side to I'm having so much fun.. it was reissued as the flip to funky funky twist in 1971

[Dave Thorley]

I played it at Stafford, Ian Clark was also playing it at the 100 Club around the same time. At the time if Ian or I found something new that was interesting and we had a spare copy, we would let the other have one. I found a couple of copies of this in Florida, but sat on them a couple of years. It wasn't until Stafford that, that type of record could be excepted, this would have been around 84. This was when I was playing tracks like Soul Brothers Inc - Pyramid, Johnny Gilliam - Room full of tears, Guitar Ray - Your gonna wreck my life and Willie Tee fitted with these perfectly. But with many not going to Stafford, many of these type of tunes got picked up again late 80's early 90's for a second lease of life.

As for 'Please don't go', to my knowledge Richard Searling was the first to play it at Wigan. On the same trip as finding 'First taste of hurt' I also got a copy of this, think that was the second copy to turn up. Played it at Yate and then continued to play it at Stafford. Both records came from the racks of Sid (King) Arthur's Oldies in Fort Lauderdale.

Edited May 22, 2015 by Dave Thorley

[Ian Dewhirst]

I played it at Stafford, Ian Clark was also playing it at the 100 Club around the same time. At the time if Ian or I found something new that was interesting and we had a spare copy, we would let the other have one. I found a couple of copies of this in Florida, but sat on them a couple of years. It wasn't until Stafford that, that type of record could be excepted, this would have been around 84. This was when I was playing tracks like Soul Brothers Inc - Pyramid, Johnny Gilliam - Room full of tears, Guitar Ray - Your gonna wreck my life and Willie Tee fitted with these perfectly. But with many not going to Stafford, many of these type of tunes got picked up again late 80's early 90's for a second lease of life.

As for 'Please don't go', to my knowledge Richard Searling was the first to play it at Wigan. On the same trip as finding 'First taste of hurt' I also got a copy of this, think that was the second copy to turn up. Played it at Yate and then continued to play it at Stafford. Both records came from the racks of Sid (King) Arthur's Oldies in Fort Lauderdale.

 

That makes sense. I had what I believe was the first copy which I found in L.A. in '76 and that went straight onto the shelves. Over the following years I had a procession of DJs and collectors over and none of them knew it so I knew it was pretty rare but I didn't want to sell it so the copy stayed on the shelves. Sam finally got it off me, I believe in '89, which was the period when Thorne was thriving I think and thus the record got it's second lease of life around then. 

 

Ian D   

[Steve G]

"Please don't go" for me came from Dallas about 1990 - 1/2 price Books and Records - $1. 

[Dave Pinch]

"Please don't go" for me came from Dallas about 1990 - 1/2 price Books and Records - $1. 

and what a flipside..not bad for 50c each steve

[Ian Dewhirst]

"Please don't go" for me came from Dallas about 1990 - 1/2 price Books and Records - $1. 

 

Those were the days ay?

 

Ian D   

[Sean Hampsey]

I would have said "Please Don't Go" was Pat Brady, every weekend, late 70's / early 80's.

 

Never heard anyone else play it, at that time, like he did.

 

Also, don't believe I ever heard 'First Taste Of Hurt' played at Thorne... and I never missed one.

 

Funny how 20 -30+ years later things sometimes get a little cloudy, but I'm pretty sure FTOH was never really a Thorne record.

 

 

Sean

[Ian Dewhirst]

I would have said "Please Don't Go" was Pat Brady, every weekend, late 70's / early 80's.

 

Never heard anyone else play it, at that time, like he did.

 

Also, don't believe I ever heard 'First Taste Of Hurt' played at Thorne... and I never missed one.

 

Funny how 20 -30+ years later things sometimes get a little cloudy, but I'm pretty sure FTOH was never really a Thorne record.

 

 

Sean

 

Whoops. I just assumed that Sam would play it somewhere and he mentioned Thorne at the time. Back to the original question then.....  

 

 Ian D 

[Sean Hampsey]

It's easy to see how a few folk might have suggested Thorne Ian. It's just I don't remember it there whatsoever. It was clearly getting plays in the UK before then and Thorne was always 'groundbreaking' - apart from the odd real 'classic' thrown in for good measure.

 

I'd most likely go along with Dave's take on it. Played around mid - late 80's at Stafford and 100 club. I say that because the lads who raved to us about FTOH (Danny Speddings & Bob Steer) were ardent fans of both venues. Dean at Parkers and the Pitches boys played it and helped it reach its peak, but it was originally broken a few years before then.

 

A truly Fantastic record.

 

 

Sean

[Chalky]

It's easy to see how a few folk might have suggested Thorne Ian. It's just I don't remember it there whatsoever. It was clearly getting plays in the UK before then and Thorne was always 'groundbreaking' - apart from the odd real 'classic' thrown in for good measure.

 

I'd most likely go along with Dave's take on it. Played around mid - late 80's at Stafford and 100 club. I say that because the lads who raved to us about FTOH (Danny Speddings & Bob Steer) were ardent fans of both venues. Dean at Parkers and the Pitches boys played it and helped it reach its peak, but it was originally broken a few years before then.

 

A truly Fantastic record.

 

 

Sean

 

 

I was playing it all over South Yorkshire and anywhere else I DJ'ed late 80-'s and into the 90's Sean.  It may well have had the odd spin at Thorne, especially when Gary was running it.  By the time Rod was in control it was probably too "northern" for Thorne.

[Sean Hampsey]

Yep, you might be right Chalks. It was certainly being punted around by a few at that time. Maybe got a spin early Thorne under Gary and Steve Killer, but pinpointing it to its earliest spins, I guess it must have been 100 Club and Dave at Stafford.

?

Sean

[Guest Ivor Jones]

Just remembered. I bought my copy with "Im Having So Much Fun" on the flip side, in[i think] 1984 at one of Ady Croasdells   midweek nights at the Phoenix in London for £12….btw ,It was quite a lot of money then ! Not that that means anything like,just saying…..I did buy it for the IHSMF side though. I was well chuffed to find First Taste Of Hurt as the flip side later !

  Why don't things like that happen more often    Nice !

 

[Ian Dewhirst]

.I did buy it for the IHSMF side though. I was well chuffed to find First Taste Of Hurt as the flip side later !

  Why don't things like that happen more often    Nice !

 

 

I did exactly the same thing Ivor. Only played IHSMF for several years until I flipped it a few years later and got a pleasant surprise. Weird ay?

 

Ian D   

[Steve G]

No one like Funky Funky Twist then?