Has Sandy Golden On Masterpiece Been Booted?

[Pete S]

Even though I'm obviously too daft to distinguish real strings from synth strings it's the same singer, just overdubbing.

 

It's an accordion!

[Ian Dewhirst]

It's an accordion!

 

Holy shit! Was this recorded in France then.....? 

 

Ian D 

[Benji]

It's an accordion!

 

Edited November 6, 2013 by Benji

[Tony Smith]

23 rd May 2009 ...Ian Levines s greatest northern soul tracks...Ian loves a synth as well....lol and Richard in on the joke...Leo Costa?? Isn't he the famous bodybuilder??

Leo Costa "If You're Trying To Hurt Me" unissued west coast mid-tempo tune discovered by Tim Ashibende, was rumoured to be Lou Courtney.

[Glynthornhill]

The problem with something like this is that people think there's only three or four copies whatever, but they have no idea really.  I know a member on here who has one but they haven't mentioned it or shouted up, maybe because they don't want people to know, maybe they aren't bothered, but this thing about there only being X amount of copies will nearly always be proven wrong.

Very true Pete - there are numerous examples of ' rare ' records that never turn up ....It all depends on what constitutes ' rare ' with regard to pressed quantities.

I have a box full of records that only saw 150 / 200 quantity runs like Steve G states they ain't in price guides , and many others on here will have also. Does that make the rarity more elusive ? . No one can know everything about this music . Sandy Golden 's may well exist in the USA tucked away in collections. As we are unable to ask the aforementioned maybe we will never know . I 'll leave you with two interesting comments...

Flowers 45 ' For Real ' recently sold for £1250 last month - in the early modern soul days I witnessed a dealer with a box of over 200 copies of this - so is it really that rare ?

In 2005  I was purchasing a new laptop and struck up conversation with the young lad serving '  Oh my mum used to collect Northern soul - those jukebox 45's with the large hole - She let them all go last year as they had been in the loft storage for years , but had a ' Lady In Green ' by The Magnetics that she thought was the rarest 45 in her collection . Me : ' How much did she sell that for  ?' Oh around £50 I think  ...

 

Makes you ponder sometimes......

[Chalky]

Throughout all this debate did the finder of this state where he found it?

And has anyone tried to find out just who Sandy Golden was/is?

[Chalky]

Leo Costa "If You're Trying To Hurt Me" unissued west coast mid-tempo tune discovered by Tim Ashibende, was rumoured to be Lou Courtney.

Rob Marriott had this at one time, still have it on a tape of his.

[Wrongcrowd]

Even though I'm obviously too daft to distinguish real strings from synth strings it's the same singer, just overdubbing.

 

I doubt that you could categorically confirm that to be the case....unless of course you were there at the time, or moonlight as the label's sound engineer.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Very true Pete - there are numerous examples of ' rare ' records that never turn up ....It all depends on what constitutes ' rare ' with regard to pressed quantities.

I have a box full of records that only saw 150 / 200 quantity runs like Steve G states they ain't in price guides , and many others on here will have also. Does that make the rarity more elusive ? . No one can know everything about this music . Sandy Golden 's may well exist in the USA tucked away in collections. As we are unable to ask the aforementioned maybe we will never know . I 'll leave you with two interesting comments...

Flowers 45 ' For Real ' recently sold for £1250 last month - in the early modern soul days I witnessed a dealer with a box of over 200 copies of this - so is it really that rare ?

In 2005  I was purchasing a new laptop and struck up conversation with the young lad serving '  Oh my mum used to collect Northern soul - those jukebox 45's with the large hole - She let them all go last year as they had been in the loft storage for years , but had a ' Lady In Green ' by The Magnetics that she thought was the rarest 45 in her collection . Me : ' How much did she sell that for  ?' Oh around £50 I think  ...

 

Makes you ponder sometimes......

 

There's many more stories like this Glynn. There's a couple of guys I knew with phenomenal collections in the 70's who dropped off the scene in the late 70's but as far as I know, have still kept their record collections. I know what's in some of 'em because I sold 'em records including originals of many which were pressed at the time. I shudder to think what they'd be worth now.

 

There's collectors in London who are not connected with the Northern scene that also have phenomenal collections including many labels or records I've never seen before. 

 

I know that there's hundreds of copies of some current big hitters out there. I would often lift 10 copies of something out of a 100 count box and buy 'em on spec and then sell them on. Wish I hadn't been so tight and bought the lot instead! Hindsight ay?

 

Also, it really wasn't uncommon for the L.A. indie labels to be badly distributed in my view. The labels with a bit of clout would turn up in the ghetto shops but most didn't make it, so it wouldn't be uncommon to find several hundred count boxes of a record. I would guess that most labels would have pressed at least 500 but probably 1000 with most of 'em unsold after a year and then either returned to the owner or dumped! 

 

Ian D 

[Benji]

I doubt that you could categorically confirm that to be the case....unless of course you were there at the time, or moonlight as the label's sound engineer.

 

But I do. Wasn't there tho.

[Simon T]

But I do. Wasn't there tho.

I was. I was moonlighting on the squeezebox

 

Perhaps head a bit too much like hand for radio play?

Edited November 6, 2013 by simon t

[Guest AGrail]

Anyone know who bought the Sandy Golden 45  that went on eBay in 2007?

Seems the final figure back then was $6100 (Source  https://www.beatlesdays.com/news_details.php?id=7187  )

 

I am keen to compare the copy I have with anyone who has a 'known' copy. I can not find a single copy of this 45 for sale anywhere curently or even recently...

Edited November 6, 2013 by AGrail

[Cover-up]

Anyone know who bought the Sandy Golden 45  that went on eBay in 2007?

Seems the final figure back then was $6100 (Source  https://www.beatlesdays.com/news_details.php?id=7187  )

 

I am keen to compare the copy I have with anyone who has a 'known' copy. I can not find a single copy of this 45 for sale anywhere curently or even recently...

I think people on here would be keen to hear how you acquired this record... Did you say earlier that this copy was found two years ago? Which makes the "other" copy recently found mentioned in this thread just a co-incidence.

I love the idea that bollock-rare northern soul singles can be found here in the uk in the unlikeliest places... I always assume you need to be in the US to find the rare stuff. Or have very deep pockets...

[Guest AGrail]

I think people on here would be keen to hear how you acquired this record... Did you say earlier that this copy was found two years ago?

 

Sadly the back story on this copy is pretty bland. The collection was bought in Plymouth Devon two years ago following a berevement. Unusual stuff does turn up down here being a port City. The collection was fairly uninspireing although mainly US 45's.  I belive the deceased owner had been in the navy or merchant navy. I wish I could say it came with a few Shrine 45's but it didn't. It was a fairly modest collection.

Edited November 6, 2013 by AGrail

[pogo paul]

Didn't know this record until this thread, although deffo heard it played out.

The whole sound is very seventies to me. Looking at the record label, nothing special,how often might have seen this when record buying? and by passed it.Could be loads out there,not everyone knows what they are looking at!

[Guest AGrail]

Didn't know this record until this thread, although deffo heard it played out.

The whole sound is very seventies to me. Looking at the record label, nothing special,how often might have seen this when record buying? and by passed it.Could be loads out there,not everyone knows what they are looking at!

 

More copies in the wild? Sure I guess there must be unless this one received a genuine vanity low run pressing - any copies available anywhere from any dealer? The most recent online 'public' sale I can find was in 2007. I'm sure this one has changed hands privately but the fact remains it's not exactly raining Sandy Golden.

[Tony Smith]

Didn't know this record until this thread, although deffo heard it played out.

The whole sound is very seventies to me. Looking at the record label, nothing special,how often might have seen this when record buying? and by passed it.Could be loads out there,not everyone knows what they are looking at!

 

"Loads out there" I doubt that very much I, and many others have known this record in excess of 25 years, no other copies ever turned up before Ebay, If there was any significant amount it would've surfaced before now.

[Pete S]

 no other copies ever turned up before Ebay, If there was any significant amount it would've surfaced before now.

 

That's an impossible statement to back up Tony, because you or nobody else knows that.  There are records hidden everywhere.  I bought a Court Davis off a pop list from Swindon once, it was listed as a Gene Pitney soundalike.  Nobody knew it was there before that.

[Steve G]

Time to lighten this thread up a bit......enough of the serious stuff....Enjoy this mild fun!

 

...And Ian see you @ Majestic - first pint on me!

 

 

 

Beware Record Bootleggers are back.pdf

Edited November 7, 2013 by Steve G

[Swifty]

Time to lighten this thread up a bit......enough of the serious stuff....Enjoy this mild fun!

 

...And Ian see you @ Majestic - first pint on me!

Very Good !!!

[Ian Dewhirst]

Time to lighten this thread up a bit......enough of the serious stuff....Enjoy this mild fun!

 

...And Ian see you @ Majestic - first pint on me!

 

LOL, someone's been busy! Unfortunately a lingering nasty chest infection will be keeping me from imbibing @ the Majestic tonight Steve but I'll be thinking of you as I slake another Hot Lemon down........

 

Ian D 

[Steve G]

LOL, someone's been busy! Unfortunately a lingering nasty chest infection will be keeping me from imbibing @ the Majestic tonight Steve but I'll be thinking of you as I slake another Hot Lemon down........

 

Ian D 

 

That's a shame...we could have put Sandy Golden to bed, figuratively speaking of course

[pogo paul]

"Loads out there" I doubt that very much I, and many others have known this record in excess of 25 years, no other copies ever turned up before Ebay, If there was any significant amount it would've surfaced before now.

Maybe not loads, 1 found in Plymouth.I'm from Torquay,just up the road,will certainly be checking car boots around here.

What i was trying to say,loads of records get discarded,not everyone knows what they are looking at.Backed up by

Post 205 as evidence,

You and many others know this record,still a drop in the ocean in terms of population of record buyers,past and present.

[Pete S]

Maybe not loads, 1 found in Plymouth.I'm from Torquay,just up the road,will certainly be checking car boots around here.

What i was trying to say,loads of records get discarded,not everyone knows what they are looking at.Backed up by

Post 205 as evidence,

You and many others know this record,still a drop in the ocean in terms of population of record buyers,past and present.

 

I found a copy of Anthony & The Aqualads in a second hand ship in Eastbourne in the 90's.

[Andy Rix]

Haven't had chance to read all of his thread as I'm out of the UK with little spare time.

I'll contact Nate Fortier again when I get back but he had a massive stroke a couple of years ago and had lost the ability to talk coherently.

His son was trying to get him to communicate about the 45.

It dragged on for some time and I let my efforts slide but I'll give it another go

Motown and Shrine used an ondioline which was an early version of a synth so an instrument able to produce such a sound was available in the 60s

Andy

Edited November 7, 2013 by Andy Rix

[Chalky]

Nate did post on a site that he had had a stroke but he was doing well. I did email him but no reply, not sure if the address is still valid.

[Ian Dewhirst]

Haven't had chance to read all of his thread as I'm out of the UK with little spare time.

I'll contact Nate Fortier again when I get back but he had a massive stroke a couple of years ago and had lost the ability to talk coherently.

His son was trying to get him to communicate about the 45.

It dragged on for some time and I let my efforts slide but I'll give it another go

Motown and Shrine used an ondioline which was an early version of a synth so an instrument able to produce such a sound was available in the 60s

Andy

 

I hope you can locate him Andy. What's the betting he can find some assuming he's recovered from the stroke? 

 

I don't why but I have a strong feeling that the plates and masters for Nate's recordings could still be around. Could be completely wrong, but a lot of the sussed guys from that era held on to the tapes and plates etc.....

 

Best of luck and you could even ask him who Sandy Golden was.....

 

Ian D 

[Autumnstoned]

Haven't had chance to read all of his thread as I'm out of the UK with little spare time.

I'll contact Nate Fortier again when I get back but he had a massive stroke a couple of years ago and had lost the ability to talk coherently.

His son was trying to get him to communicate about the 45.

It dragged on for some time and I let my efforts slide but I'll give it another go

Motown and Shrine used an ondioline which was an early version of a synth so an instrument able to produce such a sound was available in the 60s

Andy

I think you may have something there with the Ondioline. I've heard of the Clavioline before which Joe Meek used, but not the Ondioline. Having listened to some clips of the Ondioline on You Tube, agree it's possible that was used.

[Ian Dewhirst]

I think you may have something there with the Ondioline. I've heard of the Clavioline before which Joe Meek used, but not the Ondioline. Having listened to some clips of the Ondioline on You Tube, agree it's possible that was used.

 

A genuine Ondioline presumably? 

 

Ian D 

[Pete S]

Were you dredging for records at the time Pete

 

Steve

 

 

oops

[Pete S]

I think you may have something there with the Ondioline. I've heard of the Clavioline before which Joe Meek used, but not the Ondioline. Having listened to some clips of the Ondioline on You Tube, agree it's possible that was used.

 

Didn't Stereolab use one of those, they even wrote a song about it

[Jordirip]

Wouldn't the synths of the 60's have been used to make 'synth' type sounds rather than immitate string sections or brass sections? The kind of sounds such as the Beach Boys stuff used, or even Dr. Who etc, right up to the sweet soul analogue synths of the 70's. They all were instruments in their own right without imitating other instruments. I've listened to the audio clip and it's difficult to tell as the 'strings' are very low in the mix. I did think they sounded possibly like synth strings as they kind of wash in and out, but they also sound like great strings which might simply be made by proper string players rather than a synth. Listen to the strings on this record by the Ordells from around the same time, they're absolutely gorgeous and have a similar quality albeit they are much louder in the mix.

 

[Guest Paul]

Apart from various instruments which could be used (or misused) to create strange sounds there was also the effects of outboard equipment which some people used in inventive ways to get fresh or unique sounds.

Because of the limitations I think some producers and engineers had to be a lot more adventurous and experimental in those days and if they came up with something special (sometimes by accident) they often kept their methods to themselves.

There are many 1960s records with sounds which aren't easy to identify and that makes them difficult to emulate.

With all of our advanced technology we aren't quite as clever as we think we are.

 

 

[Autumnstoned]

Didn't Stereolab use one of those, they even wrote a song about it

 

This comes up on Wikipeadia. I've not heard the track but will give it a listen. 

 

The name "Jenny Ondioline" Jenny Ondioline was used for the title of a 1993 song by British band Stereolab. However, the song's lyrics have nothing to do with Georges Jenny, or the Ondioline.

[Guest gordon russell]

There's many more stories like this Glynn. There's a couple of guys I knew with phenomenal collections in the 70's who dropped off the scene in the late 70's but as far as I know, have still kept their record collections. I know what's in some of 'em because I sold 'em records including originals of many which were pressed at the time. I shudder to think what they'd be worth now.

 

There's collectors in London who are not connected with the Northern scene that also have phenomenal collections including many labels or records I've never seen before. 

 

I know that there's hundreds of copies of some current big hitters out there. I would often lift 10 copies of something out of a 100 count box and buy 'em on spec and then sell them on. Wish I hadn't been so tight and bought the lot instead! Hindsight ay?

 

Also, it really wasn't uncommon for the L.A. indie labels to be badly distributed in my view. The labels with a bit of clout would turn up in the ghetto shops but most didn't make it, so it wouldn't be uncommon to find several hundred count boxes of a record. I would guess that most labels would have pressed at least 500 but probably 1000 with most of 'em unsold after a year and then either returned to the owner or dumped! 

 

Ian D 

Tom Criehton the wimbledon taxi driver.......now there might be a collection?

[Ian Dewhirst]

Tom Criehton the wimbledon taxi driver.......now there might be a collection?

 

Yep, Mike Ritson's mentioned his collection. It's meant to be unbelievable. He has no connection with any scene as far as I know and he's a very private guy by all accounts.....

 

I know a couple of other people in this category who have shown me handwritten books with all the records in their collections and left me gobsmacked with their depth of knowledge. Never see 'em at Northern do's though........

 

Ian D 

[Guest gordon russell]

Yep, Mike Ritson's mentioned his collection. It's meant to be unbelievable. He has no connection with any scene as far as I know and he's a very private guy by all accounts.....

 

I know a couple of other people in this category who have shown me handwritten books with all the records in their collections and left me gobsmacked with their depth of knowledge. Never see 'em at Northern do's though........

 

Ian D 

remember hesitating  on a  Freddy butler on wheelsville at £90.....went on home .....slapped myself around the face....rang up  ??....for it.........sorry sold    to the above fella

[Pete S]

This comes up on Wikipeadia. I've not heard the track but will give it a listen. 

 

The name "Jenny Ondioline" Jenny Ondioline was used for the title of a 1993 song by British band Stereolab. However, the song's lyrics have nothing to do with Georges Jenny, or the Ondioline.

 

oh well!

[Marc Forrest]

Very true Pete - there are numerous examples of ' rare ' records that never turn up ....It all depends on what constitutes ' rare ' with regard to pressed quantities.

I have a box full of records that only saw 150 / 200 quantity runs like Steve G states they ain't in price guides , and many others on here will have also. Does that make the rarity more elusive ? . No one can know everything about this music . Sandy Golden 's may well exist in the USA tucked away in collections. As we are unable to ask the aforementioned maybe we will never know . I 'll leave you with two interesting comments...

Flowers 45 ' For Real ' recently sold for £1250 last month - in the early modern soul days I witnessed a dealer with a box of over 200 copies of this - so is it really that rare ?

In 2005  I was purchasing a new laptop and struck up conversation with the young lad serving '  Oh my mum used to collect Northern soul - those jukebox 45's with the large hole - She let them all go last year as they had been in the loft storage for years , but had a ' Lady In Green ' by The Magnetics that she thought was the rarest 45 in her collection . Me : ' How much did she sell that for  ?' Oh around £50 I think  ...

 

Makes you ponder sometimes......

magnetics...may have been the vinyl boot though ?

[Glynthornhill]

Don' t think so Marc she'd had it since early 1970 's he said

[Pete S]

Don' t think so Marc she'd had it since early 1970 's he said

 

Was an 'unknown' til late 70's though...

[Guest east rob]

I know nowt about the Sandy Golden 45 so can't comment on its origins, but listening to it on here it does not come close to the sweets.

It sounds as the vocal is shoehorned on to the backing track. it may be rare as a rare thing but it dont work for me.

just my opinion mind,

[Pete S]

I know nowt about the Sandy Golden 45 so can't comment on its origins, but listening to it on here it does not come close to the sweets.

It sounds as the vocal is shoehorned on to the backing track. it may be rare as a rare thing but it dont work for me.

just my opinion mind,

 

I agree with you, Sweets is miles better.  They're both good though.

[Sjclement]

Going back to the original question Manship's guide has Sandy Golden Your Love is Everything/Grey Skies Masterpiece SG201 listed so this release is a later/earlier issue? or am I missing something

 

Both tracks are wonderful examples of female midtempo soul

[Ion T]

You leave a thread for a few days, come back and the plot has gone on some Da Vinci code, JFK how many shots in a northern soul stylee type of way. The record pictured looks exactly the same as the copy I had through the 80s and the Loch Ness 'synth'' sounds are attributable to instruments available at the time. I always believed the record was from the West Coast which makes sense as Barrie Waddington (possibly with Brad) turned it up and Barrie had amazing West Coast knowledge and contacts. If I remember correctly Barrie had owned the record for several years prior to passing it on to me. Unless my memory is doing a number, he played it to me down the phone as 'something I found in a cupboard'. I remember also getting King George 'I Need You' in the same batch and weird pieces such as 'J D Abram', Ricky Lewis on Mercury and 'Noquola and Spiders' from Barrie/Brad around the same time - they were top boys for turning up rare records. It always makes me laugh when most/vast majority on the Northern scene weren't interested in unknowns in the 80s when they could still be found yourself or picked up off others for rarely more than £40 but are happy to rave about them 25+ years later and fork out £1,000s when they have been spun/played to death by others. Baaa, Baaa. Ion

[Ian Dewhirst]

Going back to the original question Manship's guide has Sandy Golden Your Love is Everything/Grey Skies Masterpiece SG201 listed so this release is a later/earlier issue? or am I missing something

 

Mmm. Well that's curious is it not? Where did "Grey Skies" come from then?

 

Has anyone seen a copy of Sandy Golden with a song called "Grey Skies" on the flip then? 

 

Just gets weirder....

 

Ian D 

[Ian Dewhirst]

You leave a thread for a few days, come back and the plot has gone on some Da Vinci code, JFK how many shots in a northern soul stylee type of way. The record pictured looks exactly the same as the copy I had through the 80s and the Loch Ness 'synth'' sounds are attributable to instruments available at the time. I always believed the record was from the West Coast which makes sense as Barrie Waddington (possibly with Brad) turned it up and Barrie had amazing West Coast knowledge and contacts. If I remember correctly Barrie had owned the record for several years prior to passing it on to me. Unless my memory is doing a number, he played it to me down the phone as 'something I found in a cupboard'. I remember also getting King George 'I Need You' in the same batch and weird pieces such as 'J D Abram', Ricky Lewis on Mercury and 'Noquola and Spiders' from Barrie/Brad around the same time - they were top boys for turning up rare records. It always makes me laugh when most/vast majority on the Northern scene weren't interested in unknowns in the 80s when they could still be found yourself or picked up off others for rarely more than £40 but are happy to rave about them 25+ years later and fork out £1,000s when they have been spun/played to death by others. Baaa, Baaa. Ion

 

LOL, Brad turned up stuff every bloody week in the mid 70's. He's one of the main reasons why I slugged it from Huddersfield over to Burnley every Tuesday night in the mid 70's. "Send Him Back" - The Pointer Sisters and tons of others came from Brad, so often Brad would hype me on a record on the Tuesday night, I'd hand over my wages and buy it (every unknown record was £2 back then LOL) but I'd have a solid great new play for the upcoming weekend. And many of those £2 Tuesday night purchases would turn into monsters along the line. Brad was very, very sussed and diligent about scouting down stuff.

 

He was the first guy I knew that was in direct contact with Major Bill Smith in Texas and, if my memory serves me correctly, Robert Thomas and Ede Robin probably came from Brad first. Brad supplied a few of us and was so quick on new Mecca spins it was unreal. However, it's weird 'cos I mentioned Major Bill Smith earlier in this thread because the Sandy Golden pressing just kinda rang a distant alarm bell with me 'cos it reminded me of either a Soussan bootleg or a Major Bill legitimate re-press, hence my comment about being the bootiest looking original I'd ever seen. And it is.

 

Yes, it's deffo the Northern Soul version of JFK and I apologize if I've basically been talking b*llocks for the last 10 days, but there's something not quite right about that Sandy Golden record in my view. Also, now this other 'B' side "Grey Skies" has popped up it's really making me wonder.

 

Where did Manship's info come from? 

 

Ian D 

[Steve G]

 

 

Where did Manship's info come from? 

 

Ian D 

 

Ian D, had promised myself not to come back on here after the comedy article I did,,,,but one thing for you to consider - The Manship price guide whilst an invaluable source of information isn't the holy bible……that's why there are six versions of it…..it's constantly evolving and with a work of that size not everything is going to be 100% right. 

 

 

 

PS: Hope you are over your chest infection now….Thursday was as good as always apart from one DJ playing vinyl carvers of other peoples records   ! Had you been there you would have had to had put up with me moaning about it! 

[Pete S]

The record pictured looks exactly the same as the copy I had through the 80s and the Loch Ness 'synth'' sounds are attributable to instruments available at the time. 

 

Such as??

[Simon T]

Reason I ask, a mate has picked up an extremely clean copy in a batch of otherwise run-of-the-mill titles.

 

Looks too good to be true?  I'm not aware of any boot of this unless something has dribbled out recently?

 

yes