What Would Have Happened If This Had Been A Hit

[Roburt]

Back in 1975, NS was the big thing, in part due to the profile Wigan Casino had at the time.

Re-released NS scene UK 45's had been making the Pop charts here for some time (The Tams in 70 & 71; Fascinations in 71, Bobby Hebb in 72, Robert Knight in 73, R Dean Taylor in 74, Al Wilson and Dobie Gray in 75) and many more were released to try to catch good sales.

 

The likes of Simon Soussan was also in business back then and making 'taylor mades'. Some of the tracks he had a hand in did sell quite well and, of course, one eventually made it onto the charts when Shalimar's "Uptown Festival" achieved that position.

But in 1975, with Selectadisc's help, he put out "Love You Baby" on Black Magic, the track being badged up as being by Lorraine Chandler.

This 45 cut certainly had it's fans and with a bit more of a push could have actually made the UK Pop Charts.

What would have happened though if the track had attained this status and UK booking agents and the likes of the BBC had gone looking for Lorraine with a view to fetching her over here to 'cash in' on the record's success.

 

In later years we had the likes of Milli Vanilli and Black Box, who had hits without ever being the vocalists on the tracks involved BUT at least they knew what situation they were getting themselves into.

I'm sure, poor old Lorraine would have been at a loss to know what to do if the 'chart hit record' situation had actually come about. She obviously had been involved with the 'backing track' and the original version of "Love You Baby" but would have been stumped if approached and told she had a UK hit on her hands with a song she had never recorded. 

[Pete S]

Back in 1975, NS was the big thing, in part due to the profile Wigan Casino had at the time.

Re-released NS scene UK 45's had been making the Pop charts here for some time (The Tams in 70 & 71; Fascinations in 71, Bobby Hebb in 72, Robert Knight in 73, R Dean Taylor in 74, Al Wilson and Dobie Gray in 75) and many more were released to try to catch good sales.

 

The likes of Simon Soussan was also in business back then and making 'taylor mades'. Some of the tracks he had a hand in did sell quite well and, of course, one eventually made it onto the charts when Shalimar's "Uptown Festival" achieved that position.

But in 1975, with Selectadisc's help, he put out "Love You Baby" on Black Magic, the track being badged up as being by Lorraine Chandler.

This 45 cut certainly had it's fans and with a bit more of a push could have actually made the UK Pop Charts.

What would have happened though if the track had attained this status and UK booking agents and the likes of the BBC had gone looking for Lorraine with a view to fetching her over here to 'cash in' on the record's success.

 

In later years we had the likes of Milli Vanilli and Black Box, who had hits without ever being the vocalists on the tracks involved BUT at least they knew what situation they were getting themselves into.

I'm sure, poor old Lorraine would have been at a loss to know what to do if the 'chart hit record' situation had actually come about. She obviously had been involved with the 'backing track' and the original version of "Love You Baby" but would have been stumped if approached and told she had a UK hit on her hands with a song she had never recorded. 

 

Nowadays this would have got in the top 10 from it's sales, but back then you could sell 30,000 or more copies of a record and it wouldn't dent the charts, singles were so popular.  But as Lorraine was part of the team who made it - I think she would have deserved to become the 'face' of the record if it went on TOTP.

[Mick Holdsworth]

A similar scenario could have arisen with the Grapevine releases of Diane Renay - "Can't Help Lovin' that Man", and Construction "Hey Little Way Out Girl", both issued as the cover-up artists.

 

I don't know about the former's sales, but I'm sure the latter sold more than a few at the time. If it had made the charts, would Top Of The Pops have searched for archive footage (if they could find any) of the Del Capris and aired it on TV. And just like Lorraine, any band members would have wondered what was going on.

 

Cheers

Mick

[Roburt]

Nowadays this would have got in the top 10 from it's sales, but back then you could sell 30,000 or more copies of a record and it wouldn't dent the charts, singles were so popular.  But as Lorraine was part of the team who made it - I think she would have deserved to become the 'face' of the record if it went on TOTP.

Anyone know just how many copies of this Black Magic 45 were sold back then ?

I guess the track got plays at the Casino at the time and filled the floor. But as the majority of sales of the single would have been in the Midlands and north, the London biased way the charts were made up then would have counted against it making the top 40 I guess.

Edited October 23, 2013 by Roburt

[Peter99]

I quite like Love You Baby

[Driveller]

A similar scenario could have arisen with the Grapevine releases of Diane Renay - "Can't Help Lovin' that Man", and Construction "Hey Little Way Out Girl", both issued as the cover-up artists.

 

I don't know about the former's sales, but I'm sure the latter sold more than a few at the time. If it had made the charts, would Top Of The Pops have searched for archive footage (if they could find any) of the Del Capris and aired it on TV. And just like Lorraine, any band members would have wondered what was going on.

 

Cheers

Mick

 

 

 

Hi Mick,

 

Most likely thing is they would have ignored the issue completely and reached for Pan's People - witness the current re-runs with Legs & Co doing "Summer Nights" week after week at number one because TOTP obviously couldn't clear any footage from the actual film.

 

Now we can thank our lucky stars that's a scenario that never came true...!

 

All the best,

 

Nick

[kevinsoulman]

I quite like Love You Baby

and the flip what can i do

one of the best twofers

kev

[Mike]

 earlier in 1975 black magic did actually made the uk top 30 with the sharonettes 

[Peter99]

This is a rather daft question - but who did actually perform on the Love You Baby record?

 

Peter

[kevinsoulman]

former threads

 

 

 

kev

Edited October 23, 2013 by kevinsoulman

[Ian Dewhirst]

The same exact same thing happened with Black Box's "Ride On Time" which featured the main vocal sampled from Loleatta Holloway's "Love Sensation" but was credited to Black Box. It was the biggest selling single of 1989.

 

Ian D 

[Geeselad]

The same exact same thing happened with Black Box's "Ride On Time" which featured the main vocal sampled from Loleatta Holloway's "Love Sensation" but was credited to Black Box. It was the biggest selling single of 1989.

 

Ian D 

I can remember watchin Njoi's Saffron mining miming to anthem, thinking, this isnt right, I know that 'im in love with you' is just a sample from an old disco tune, there loads of others, there was an act on totp that ripped off that ' reach up' acca and some guy mimed it.    

[Guest Paul]

As we've discussed before, a similar situation applied to Black Magic's first release, the 1975 version of 'Blowing My Mind To Pieces' which Simon Soussan credited to "Bob Relf".

 

On 'Love You Baby', Soussan not only falsely claimed the artist was "Lorraine Chandler", he also used the backing track from the original Eddie Parker version.

 

I was 16 or 17 at the time and, like many people, I bought those records and was fooled (for a while).

 

 

Paul

Edited October 24, 2013 by Paul

[Guest son of stan]

Sorry posted on wrong thread. No delete option!

Edited October 23, 2013 by son of stan

[lorchand]

What I do not understand is how Soussan can walk around knowing what he has done and feel proud of himself.  Not only that, he knows that everybody else knows... he is a thief!  A bootlegging thief!  There, I hope he feels truly bad now while counting and spending my money from his record sales.  The thief!

 

Lorraine

[Pete S]

What I do not understand is how Soussan can walk around knowing what he has done and feel proud of himself.  Not only that, he knows that everybody else knows... he is a thief!  A bootlegging thief!  There, I hope he feels truly bad now while counting and spending my money from his record sales.  The thief!

 

Lorraine

 

His release of Love You Baby carried this message on the label:  "Exclusively licensed to Soul Galore Productions".  Licensed from who?

Anyway Lorraine I think he may have repented, last I heard someone said he had become a minister or something like that!

Edited October 24, 2013 by Pete S

[lorchand]

His release of Love You Baby carried this message on the label:  "Exclusively licensed to Soul Galore Productions".  Licensed from who?

Anyway Lorraine I think he may have repented, last I heard someone said he had become a minister or something like that!

 

Hi Pete S,

 

I will check out the history on Soul Galore Productions and you are right, who issued the license?  Could it be that Soussan is totally innocent?  Pete, about repenting, some people repent because they have no where else to go or they cannot do what they use to do and get away with it.  Soussan got caught by the Internet.  He cannot hide anymore and the only thing left to do is repent. 

 

Not that Soussan has asked, but if he wants forgiveness, he should first correct his mistakes and confess to his wrong doings.  I'm sure SS would print his apology.  I want to come to his church ...the thief, the using of my name on the flip side thief... ... the not paying any royalties to this artist thief, to whomever was associated with him are thieves...the thief that stole, then runs and hides under the ministry thief, the thief who has not  apologized...he is bad, bad, bad and it is so sad, sad, sad, hopefully he will go to heaven and St. Peter will forgive him...

 

...Lorraine

Edited October 24, 2013 by lorchand

[Pete S]

Hi Pete S,

 

I will check out the history on Soul Galore Productions and you are right, who issued the license?  Could it be that Soussan is totally innocent?  Pete, about repenting, some people repent because they have no where else to go or they cannot do what they use to do and get away with it.  Soussan got caught by the Internet.  He cannot hide anymore and the only thing left to do is repent. 

 

Not that Soussan has asked, but if he wants forgiveness, he should first correct his mistakes and confess to his wrong doings.  I'm sure SS would print his apology.  I want to come to his church ...the thief, the using of my name on the flip side thief... ... the not paying any royalties to this artist thief, to whomever was associated with him are thieves...the thief that stole, then runs and hides under the ministry thief, the thief who has not  apologized...he is bad, bad, bad and it is so sad, sad, sad, hopefully he will go to heaven and St. Peter will forgive him...

 

...Lorraine

 

I have a feeling that they released both versions of Love You Baby (Eddie Parker + female version), EP version had the instrumental on the B side, female version had your own track on the B side.  These were on light blue "Ashford" labels.  

[kevinsoulman]

this is what neil rushton said after speaking to jack ashford see previous thread from 2007

 

I spoke to Jack Ashford in the seventies when I was importing records - I was after quantity of "There Can Be A Better Way" - The Smith Brothers (the pressing plant was hanging on to them as they had not been paid for and it was all a bit complicated).
I asked Jack about the version of "I Love You baby" credited to Lorraine Chandler and he said that it was not a bootleg as he had been commisoned by Simon Soussan to record it for the Black Magic release but that he (Jack) used another singer on it. I was still writing for Black Echoes at the time so included the name of the singer in a piece I did, I can't remember the name, maybe Paula Buclow or someting similair.I thought it was a good scoop and it is the mag f anyone has back copies.Jack was in LA at the time so it would have been recorded there, with the new vocal over the original backing track.
I think Jack was told it would be released under correct name of the new vocalist- not as Lorraine Chandler. It sounds nothing like Lorraine Chandler so apart from being fraud what was the point?
Incidentally that "My Sugar Baby" - Sherlie Matthews is quite rare - we had 500 45's, all coloured vinyl,from Soussan and he never repressed it, it was typical Simon scam to credit it to Sherlie Matthews.Ian Dewhirst and myself were told he had discovered it in the Mirwood archives and it was Sherlie. That was bullshit,but he did have some kind of deal with Randy Wood for the Mirwood tapes and so the track had some kind of legitimacy, albeit a seventies vocal over a sxities backing track.Typical Simon he comes up with a good idea, makes an OK record and blows it by having to lie about who the artist was.

Neil 

[Guest Funkin Dunc]

The same exact same thing happened with Black Box's "Ride On Time" which featured the main vocal sampled from Loleatta Holloway's "Love Sensation" but was credited to Black Box. It was the biggest selling single of 1989.

 

Ian D 

That is very true, Ian. However, in my hobby of compiling Blues & Soul charts and analysing the data, the #1 B&S single of 1989 was Bobby Brown's 'My Prerogative' with Black Box relegated to #2!

[Jerry Hipkiss]

this is what neil rushton said after speaking to jack ashford see previous thread from 2007

 

I spoke to Jack Ashford in the seventies when I was importing records - I was after quantity of "There Can Be A Better Way" - The Smith Brothers (the pressing plant was hanging on to them as they had not been paid for and it was all a bit complicated).

I asked Jack about the version of "I Love You baby" credited to Lorraine Chandler and he said that it was not a bootleg as he had been commisoned by Simon Soussan to record it for the Black Magic release but that he (Jack) used another singer on it. I was still writing for Black Echoes at the time so included the name of the singer in a piece I did, I can't remember the name, maybe Paula Buclow or someting similair.I thought it was a good scoop and it is the mag f anyone has back copies.Jack was in LA at the time so it would have been recorded there, with the new vocal over the original backing track.

I think Jack was told it would be released under correct name of the new vocalist- not as Lorraine Chandler. It sounds nothing like Lorraine Chandler so apart from being fraud what was the point?

Incidentally that "My Sugar Baby" - Sherlie Matthews is quite rare - we had 500 45's, all coloured vinyl,from Soussan and he never repressed it, it was typical Simon scam to credit it to Sherlie Matthews.Ian Dewhirst and myself were told he had discovered it in the Mirwood archives and it was Sherlie. That was bullshit,but he did have some kind of deal with Randy Wood for the Mirwood tapes and so the track had some kind of legitimacy, albeit a seventies vocal over a sxities backing track.Typical Simon he comes up with a good idea, makes an OK record and blows it by having to lie about who the artist was.

Neil 

Was it Paula Roussell or similar...I'm sure he did a femme version of "Blowing my mind to pieces", credited to her...

[Ian Dewhirst]

Was it Paula Roussell or similar...I'm sure he did a femme version of "Blowing my mind to pieces", credited to her...

 

Good point. Who was Paula Roussell? Anyone know?

 

Ian D 

[lorchand]

this is what neil rushton said after speaking to jack ashford see previous thread from 2007

 

I spoke to Jack Ashford in the seventies when I was importing records - I was after quantity of "There Can Be A Better Way" - The Smith Brothers (the pressing plant was hanging on to them as they had not been paid for and it was all a bit complicated).

I asked Jack about the version of "I Love You baby" credited to Lorraine Chandler and he said that it was not a bootleg as he had been commisoned by Simon Soussan to record it for the Black Magic release but that he (Jack) used another singer on it. I was still writing for Black Echoes at the time so included the name of the singer in a piece I did, I can't remember the name, maybe Paula Buclow or someting similair.I thought it was a good scoop and it is the mag f anyone has back copies.Jack was in LA at the time so it would have been recorded there, with the new vocal over the original backing track.

I think Jack was told it would be released under correct name of the new vocalist- not as Lorraine Chandler. It sounds nothing like Lorraine Chandler so apart from being fraud what was the point?

Incidentally that "My Sugar Baby" - Sherlie Matthews is quite rare - we had 500 45's, all coloured vinyl,from Soussan and he never repressed it, it was typical Simon scam to credit it to Sherlie Matthews.Ian Dewhirst and myself were told he had discovered it in the Mirwood archives and it was Sherlie. That was bullshit,but he did have some kind of deal with Randy Wood for the Mirwood tapes and so the track had some kind of legitimacy, albeit a seventies vocal over a sxities backing track.Typical Simon he comes up with a good idea, makes an OK record and blows it by having to lie about who the artist was.

Neil 

 

Neil,

 

Thank you. 

 

Let us pray.

 

Lorraine