Swifty Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Not a bevelled edge among them. To expand on my earlier point. I'm not saying that they didn't do any that weren't stamped but were bevelled. But, having got quite a few, I would be looking for some very serious authentication on a record that doesn't have a stamp and does have a bevel. Like info from someone who worked there saying they did occasionally do records without stamps and with bevelled edges. The absence of a stamp and the presence of a bevel would make me wary. But then again that's just me. Is that the sort of info Robb K would know ? Just a thought Swifty Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 By who? By the person who told me the information on how you tell an original. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Peter99 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 By the person who told me the information on how you tell an original. Who happens to be? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Who happens to be? John Manship Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Peter99 Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 John Manship Why would Johnny do that? Trade secrets or summat? Probably non of my business. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Why would Johnny do that? Trade secrets or summat? Probably non of my business. Best ask him 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dobber Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 First of all, let me declare an interest. It is my Chris Clark record which is currently up for auction, so people should be aware of that before I make any comments. Thank you Lee (Dobber) for your kind words on our dealings and conversations over the last year or so; and, from a position of your having seen them, you made some accurate points over both the Chris Clark and Martin Luther King records. For anybody who might be interested in the record, or have any queries, I would suggest that you firstly read the description on the auction page, then do feel free to give Pat Brady a call (he has the vinyl and all supporting evidence to hand) and he will be happy to talk you through it in detail. Other than that, I shall try to refrain from posting again unless it is to generally clarify any new points (or mis-information) which need responding to. It is not my intention to try to 'bump' this thread or use it as a sales promotion. I would however welcome PMs or phone calls if anybody wishes to contact me. Kind regards, Peter thankyou peter,i might add its very good of you too let the guys know its your 45 for sale,i might also add that when i was considering buying the record,that i also looked at some copys from the 80's,and there were differences there! the 80's copies really do look like they are repros,where as your copy looks,felt,and smells a hell of a lot older,and i would defo clarify that the mlk record is also a bevelled edge,and i very much doubt that that has been booted! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 thankyou peter,i might add its very good of you too let the guys know its your 45 for sale,i might also add that when i was considering buying the record,that i also looked at some copys from the 80's,and there were differences there! the 80's copies really do look like they are repros,where as your copy looks,felt,and smells a hell of a lot older,and i would defo clarify that the mlk record is also a bevelled edge,and i very much doubt that that has been booted! Has anyone ever seen an original 60's record with a bevelled edge? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dobber Posted October 22, 2013 Share Posted October 22, 2013 Has anyone ever seen an original 60's record with a bevelled edge? i know very little of the process of vinyl in a plant,but is it possible that they all start off as a bevelled edge and then a final cutting process sharpens the edge off? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Phild Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 Has anyone ever seen an original 60's record with a bevelled edge? I've got a 70's record (Not ARP pressed) that has a beveled edge, Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Julianb Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 I think the expression 'caveat emptor' springs to mind 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve Foran Posted October 23, 2013 Share Posted October 23, 2013 With Julian B on this. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sheldonsoul Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 How much did the Chris Clark on Brady's site go for tonight ? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 How much did the Chris Clark on Brady's site go for tonight ? I dread to think Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Sheldonsoul Posted November 12, 2013 Share Posted November 12, 2013 Last time I seen it it was up to£3275.00 !!!!! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve G Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 Last time I seen it it was up to£3275.00 !!!!! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Dobber Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 does anyone know if it actually sold? and if so...how much? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
dthedrug Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 HI ALL...The BOX SET copy of Frank Wilson b/w Chris Clark Tamla Motown 982 153, is the 1st legit UK copy of Chris Clark "do I love you (indeed I do), was this version dubbed from disc or taken from studio tape that has been re,mastered? DAVE K Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Premium Stuff Posted November 13, 2013 Share Posted November 13, 2013 does anyone know if it actually sold? and if so...how much? Don't think there's a way to tell from Pat's auctions, or Tim's for that matter. Or is there? Richard Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
TOAD Posted November 14, 2013 Share Posted November 14, 2013 HI ALL...The BOX SET copy of Frank Wilson b/w Chris Clark Tamla Motown 982 153, is the 1st legit UK copy of Chris Clark "do I love you (indeed I do), was this version dubbed from disc or taken from studio tape that has been re,mastered? DAVE Knot from a box set ! Two separate 45s were released approx same time atb mr d Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
SLAMMINSOUL Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Too many question marks over this for me! and then ask yourself, would you play it out anyway or are you just buying it because its rare?(even that is questionable). If you are buying it for the latter then good luck to ya, I personaly would'nt touch it with a barge pole! Which brings it back to taste again. Sorry its not for me! Great reading as always, Knowledge on here is just awesome! Respect n ktf Clint Edited November 17, 2013 by SLAMMINSOUL Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mrtag Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Too many question marks over this for me! and then ask yourself, would you play it out anyway or are you just buying it because its rare?(even that is questionable). If you are buying it for the latter then good luck to ya, I personaly would'nt touch it with a barge pole! Which brings it back to taste again. Sorry its not for me! Great reading as always, Knowledge on here is just awesome! Respect n ktf Clint Totally agree Clint! hope you're keeping well mate! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Robbk Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 Is that the sort of info Robb K would know ? Just a thought Swifty I agree with phild here. I'd be hesitant to believe the pressing in the photo is original. I can't say that it is NOT original. But, if it were my money, I'd have been skeptical, to remain safe. It looks very like the original that I found in The Motown Vault in 1977. The handwriting on the dotted lines, and stamped form is the same. But it is significantly lighter, with the printing frayed on the edges, like the effects on photocopied image. I only saw one studio demo and one Jobete Music acetate in The Vault. Both of those "mysteriously" came up for auction in the 1980s. Perhaps more acetates and "Demo copies" were made off of one of those, and new labels made from a photo of the original studio demo were made to place on them. I'd have to see the plastic in person, to comment on whether or not it looks like a genuine '60s pressing. 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
SLAMMINSOUL Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 (edited) Totally agree Clint! hope you're keeping well mate! Hey ! all good this end! Hope yr keeping well too pal Clint Edited November 17, 2013 by SLAMMINSOUL Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Robbk Posted November 17, 2013 Share Posted November 17, 2013 thankyou peter,i might add its very good of you too let the guys know its your 45 for sale,i might also add that when i was considering buying the record,that i also looked at some copys from the 80's,and there were differences there! the 80's copies really do look like they are repros,where as your copy looks,felt,and smells a hell of a lot older,and i would defo clarify that the mlk record is also a bevelled edge,and i very much doubt that that has been booted! I didn't read this post before. If this one looks different from the known '80s repros, and looks and feels like a '60s pressing, then it is likely to be an original. The one I saw didn't have Chris Clark's autograph on it. But that could have been added later at an appearance by her in The UK. The hand written writing was significantly darker on the one I had in my hand. But that was 35 years ago. So, it may well have faded some. being bevelled doesn't help us. It could have been either way in the '60s at the Detroit sound studios Motown used. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Mattbolton Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I love the fact that this record has sprouted so much phenomenal knowledge from a hive of incredible minds. Pretty awesome really. This version is much better than the Frank Wilson version IMHO. I'll stick to my £10 boot I got from Pete S years ago. ;) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Peter Richer Posted November 18, 2013 Share Posted November 18, 2013 I didn't read this post before. If this one looks different from the known '80s repros, and looks and feels like a '60s pressing, then it is likely to be an original. The one I saw didn't have Chris Clark's autograph on it. But that could have been added later at an appearance by her in The UK. The hand written writing was significantly darker on the one I had in my hand. But that was 35 years ago. So, it may well have faded some. being bevelled doesn't help us. It could have been either way in the '60s at the Detroit sound studios Motown used. You are quite right on the autograph Robb, Chris was kind enough to sign it during her appearance at Skegness a couple of months ago. This test press came to me from Tim Brown, who bought it directly from Ron Murphy. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Robbk Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 You are quite right on the autograph Robb, Chris was kind enough to sign it during her appearance at Skegness a couple of months ago. This test press came to me from Tim Brown, who bought it directly from Ron Murphy. Ron was a good friend of mine. He usually rescued old studio demos he found loose in long-forgotten boxes sitting in pressing plants. Companies that had regular orders in a given plant would leave test pressings and at lest one (if not 2) demo records at the plant as a reference for the plant operators before future press runs. It seems now, that there must have been 2 of that particular demo, as the one I found in The Vaults "disappeared"(was lifted by some employee) from there around 1980 and was later auctioned off at the same time as several other demos and Jobete Music acetates. Ron must have found the other at one of the Detroit pressing plants or mastering facilities). Often, 2 were made, one being kept at the pressing plant, and one given to the customer (hence the Motown copy in The Vault). 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Premium Stuff Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) I had a similar, at least, copy in my hand of this and I also had a detailed and informed discussion about the actual record that was sold in the auction relative to it, and about the specific similarities between the auction copy and the version in my hand at the time. I did not have both copies together at the same time. However, if the auction copy was the same as the copy I had in my hand, I would have to say it was wrong based on the general condition, type of vinyl pressing (especially bevelled edge), label paper type and quality, printing of label, the width of deadwax which was very wide, and the matrix marks. It could of course be that the copy auctioned was similar to, but not the same as, the copy I had in my hand - and that the auctioned copy was a true original while the copy in my hand was a bootleg. Having said all of the above, I would not have touched the auction copy with a barge pole. Just my opinion and a partial one, not having had both records in front of me at the same time. Cheers Richard Edited November 19, 2013 by Premium Stuff Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Peter Richer Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 Ron was a good friend of mine. He usually rescued old studio demos he found loose in long-forgotten boxes sitting in pressing plants. Companies that had regular orders in a given plant would leave test pressings and at lest one (if not 2) demo records at the plant as a reference for the plant operators before future press runs. It seems now, that there must have been 2 of that particular demo, as the one I found in The Vaults "disappeared"(was lifted by some employee) from there around 1980 and was later auctioned off at the same time as several other demos and Jobete Music acetates. Ron must have found the other at one of the Detroit pressing plants or mastering facilities). Often, 2 were made, one being kept at the pressing plant, and one given to the customer (hence the Motown copy in The Vault). I didn't read this post before. If this one looks different from the known '80s repros, and looks and feels like a '60s pressing, then it is likely to be an original. The one I saw didn't have Chris Clark's autograph on it. But that could have been added later at an appearance by her in The UK. The hand written writing was significantly darker on the one I had in my hand. But that was 35 years ago. So, it may well have faded some. being bevelled doesn't help us. It could have been either way in the '60s at the Detroit sound studios Motown used. Thank you for all the extra information Robb. Very interesting, especially as it comes from someone who was there. I think this point about bevelled edges on 1960s Detroit studios' output is particularly pertinent Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 being bevelled doesn't help us. It could have been either way in the '60s at the Detroit sound studios Motown used. I'd love to see one Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Robbk Posted November 19, 2013 Share Posted November 19, 2013 (edited) being bevelled doesn't help us. It could have been either way in the '60s at the Detroit sound studios Motown used. I'd love to see one By far, the vast majority were NOT bevelled. So, I'd be careful about a demo that IS bevelled, AND doesn't have a stamp. I just meantthat being bevelled doesn't automatically make it CERTAIN that it has to be a post '60s pressing. The odds are that it is post '70s, but we can't be sure based on that. I don't remember seeing any Motown demo records pressed at American Record pressing (ARP) that were bevelled, nor any that didn't have the stamp on them. That doesn't make it CERTAIN that it was a boot, but I would go with the odds and be leery of putting out money for it, hoping that it is an authentic original. Edited November 19, 2013 by RobbK Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Get involved with Soul Source
Add your comments now
Join Soul Source
A free & easy soul music affair!
Join Soul Source now!Log in to Soul Source
Jump right back in!
Log in now!