Chris Clark - Do I... Auction

[Bo Diddley]

I see that there was a similar thread that mentioned this Test Press started in 2007 with recent comments. However, thought I'd start a current thread as the other one may get overlooked due to it's age. Also, the current sales info refers to folks who are respected members on this site. Dave Flynn and Robb K.

 

Mods, please merge or delete this as appropriate.

 

Pat has a Chris Clark test press of "Do I Love You" for auction. Starting bids £3,000.

 

There were a number of similar items around a few years ago as mentioned in the other thread. However, Pat has listed various reasons why this is the real deal including comments made by Dave F and Robb K.

 

Any thoughts on this?

 

Original Thread -

 

(p.s. thread not intended to either hype or de-rail the auction, or question anyones credentials, just interested  )

[Chalky]

According to the Don't Forget The Motor City website there is/are a test press(ings) and an acetate.

[Bo Diddley]

According to the Don't Forget The Motor City website there is/are a test press(ings) and an acetate.

Thanks for that Chalky, I've not come across that website.

Does it say how many Test Press items there are/were (or were usually done) and that they were all pressed in the 60's?

Cheers

[Chalky]

Thanks for that Chalky, I've not come across that website.

Does it say how many Test Press items there are/were (or were usually done) and that they were all pressed in the 60's?

Cheers

 

https://www.dftmc.info/home.html

 

I believe Keith Hughes has access to the files to compile the page.  It doesn't tell you the amount of test pressings.  For this particular record there is no info other than an acetate and test pressings, probably because they went "missing" from Motown?

 

Info at https://www.dftmc.info/about.html

 

Fantastic resource for Motown and nothing better out there really, everything you want to know

[Dave Thorley]

Anyone have a scan of the one Pat has for sale.......................

[Sebastian]

Anyone have a scan of the one Pat has for sale.......................

 

From his homepage:

https://northernsoul45s.co.uk/auctions_detail.asp?id=2097

 

[Bo Diddley]

Edit - Seb already posted

Edited October 18, 2013 by bo diddley

[Dave Thorley]

I've got one of those........Huuuummm

[Dave Pinch]

i had one......wonder what the vinyl looks like

[Guest ruffsounds]

I have exactly the same copy even the writing on label looks an exact match so is it real or not ??? will have to take a photo and put on here later.

[Pete S]

Only the matrix details will tell...everybody's got one of these

[Guest ruffsounds]

Any idea what they are Pete i.e. scratched in or stamped ???, plus the picture on Pats site relates to the Don't Be Too Long side according to the numbers on it as the numbers for the Do I track are listed V.I.P. 25034 master187313 and release 4-7-66.

Now even more ?? wether legit boot or just a rip off :0) hornets nest or what, plus on the original thread I mentioned what Chris Clark had told me herself at Northampton so whats the truth hmmm.

 

cheers Ralph.

[Benji]

If the TP really came from the ARP plant I guess it has a ARP stamp in the run out.

[Dave Pinch]

dont be too long was on the flipside of my copy..... it was one of the first white label thingies put out along with  brenda holloway reconcider..suspicion  & all that malarky  over 20 years ago

Edited October 18, 2013 by dave pinch

[Chalky]

dont be too long was on the flipside of my copy..... it was one of the first white label thingies put out along with  brenda holloway reconcider..suspicion  & all that malarky  over 20 years ago

 

 

Weren't the others plain white labels though?  I remember sorting them out into packs when Andy had a load left.  8 per pack I think but not all had suspicion as that had sold out.

[Pete S]

Weren't the others plain white labels though?  I remember sorting them out into packs when Andy had a load left.  8 per pack I think but not all had suspicion as that had sold out.

 

It wasn't one of those with the stamped titles, it had the proper test press label on it.

[Dave Pinch]

reconsider had a test press label on too or at least my copy did.......was just  really on about how long ago it was when they appeared.....not splitting hairs like

[Chalky]

reconsider had a test press label on too or at least my copy did.......was just  really on about how long ago it was when they appeared.....not splitting hairs like

 

 

Not splitting hairs Dave, I read it as though they all came from same source?  Just stating they didn't and the labels were different.

 

Here's Brenda one....

 

[Phild]

From his homepage:

https://northernsoul45s.co.uk/auctions_detail.asp?id=2097

 

CHRIS CLARK DO I LOVE YOU TEST PRESS 013 FRONT LARGE.jpg

 

Looks like several ARP test presses I have. The real giveaway though will be if it has the ARP stamp. If it has, it's real. If it hasn't it's not. Simple as that really.

[Bo Diddley]

There are a few similar to the auction 45 on Popsike.

[Guest]

An old thread worth a read again: https://soulfuldetroit.com/archives/1019-APR%20MAY%2004/850.html?1083369235

 

Features comments from the late Ron Murphy concerning the fact that 6 test presses were made (by ARP) on tracks that made it past the acetate stage, and that the Chris Clark seems to have been allocated the catalogue number 25034 for VIP. (As others have already stated, if it is a real one it will be machine stamped.)

 

[Rich Buckley]

I remember Tim had all those (reissue) white label test pressings on his list. A tenner each. That must be 20 odd years ago as the others have said. Can't for the life of me remember what they looked like though....

 

R

[Ric-tic]

I remember Tim had all those (reissue) white label test pressings on his list. A tenner each. That must be 20 odd years ago as the others have said. Can't for the life of me remember what they looked like though....

 

R

 the chris clark was like the one above the rest were white label with artist and title stamped in blue nothing else on the label

[Rick Scott]

have an autoraphed white label copy i bought some years ago (will have to dig it out) can't remember which dealer obtained from)

anybody know or remember anything about these?also a good few years before that a white label of cool off autographed by pop

corn wylie (not off cetre like all the green ones

[Pete S]

have an autoraphed white label copy i bought some years ago (will have to dig it out) can't remember which dealer obtained from)

anybody know or remember anything about these?also a good few years before that a white label of cool off autographed by pop

corn wylie (not off cetre like all the green ones

 

I don't know where that came from, that the green ones are all off centre, because they are definitely not - I've not had many, 3 copies, but none were offcentre, the labels were a bit askew but not the actual record.

[Tricky]

The green ones are not off centre as Pete mentions.They have a bubble of plastic on the run in which gives the effect of a warp.This is apparently why they were withdrawn! I personally dont think it was withdrawn as although in our terms a rare record there are enough to think the first press run was sold.

[Pete S]

.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Pete S

[Guest ruffsounds]

Here's my copy as promised, and see what Chris Clark wrote on the cover :0), wonder what she's on about lol.

[Dobber]

i wasnt gonna bother sticking my oar in on this one..but...the copy in question ive had in my hands,with a view to buy.the guy whom was selling it was also selling a lot of his collection at the time,i found him to be very honest and knowlagable,he is/was a serious collector,i had jd bryant off him from his full set of shrine.he got the chris clark from tim brown along with some compelling evidence of its originality,however it ISNT arp stamped and the disc has that bevelled edge synonymous with 80's reissues! however he had ml king speech disc that was defo real,and that had a bevelled edge an no arp stamp!  so christ knows really,the chris clark 45 seems real,but its a lot of money to be left wondering if you have been burnt!

 

by the way im no expert,but i felt it seemed fair to share my experience of the 45.

[Dobber]

just to add...ive just checked out p bradys auction,and the m l king disc is there aswell,i can confirm that the 2 discs are identical in quality and etchings,andthe m l king disc is defo from the 60's,so i would say there is more evidence to suggest the chris clark 45 is real as oppose to not!

[Guest ruffsounds]

On my copy the matrix is scratched in and reads ZA-Q6-187313 for the Do I side and x-169302 for the Don't Be Too Long side which are the master numbers for each track also scratched in is ARP hope this helps in trying to solve this issue over it being real or boot or whatever.

 

cheers Ralph

Edited October 20, 2013 by ruffsounds

[Pete S]

just to add...ive just checked out p bradys auction,and the m l king disc is there aswell,i can confirm that the 2 discs are identical in quality and etchings,andthe m l king disc is defo from the 60's,so i would say there is more evidence to suggest the chris clark 45 is real as oppose to not!

Edited October 22, 2013 by Pete S

[Pete S]

i wasnt gonna bother sticking my oar in on this one..but...the copy in question ive had in my hands,with a view to buy.the guy whom was selling it was also selling a lot of his collection at the time,i found him to be very honest and knowlagable,he is/was a serious collector,i had jd bryant off him from his full set of shrine.he got the chris clark from tim brown along with some compelling evidence of its originality,however it ISNT arp stamped and the disc has that bevelled edge synonymous with 80's reissues! however he had ml king speech disc that was defo real,and that had a bevelled edge an no arp stamp!  so christ knows really,the chris clark 45 seems real,but its a lot of money to be left wondering if you have been burnt!

 

by the way im no expert,but i felt it seemed fair to share my experience of the 45.

Edited October 22, 2013 by Pete S

[Linda4me]

I've got one of those........Huuuummm

Me too

Edited October 20, 2013 by linda4me

[Dobber]

So how do you know the MLK one was real if it had a bevelled edge and no stamp?  

i just aint sure about the record...but when your sat there with both in your hands and all the paperwork,it just seems very convincing! but at 3k i needed something more,the paper trail just shows whos owned the disc but doesnt really clarify its authenticity,so im half and half really!

[Tony Smith]

I had the MLK promo 45 years ago found in Chicago along with a Motown Corp. promo letter, I sold it to Pat along with a load of other stuff, not the same as the one on his site as mine had no label stains.

[Peter99]

Interesting thread for sure.

 

Surprised that no one has said whether they like it or not - I guess it's more of a high brow thread than that.

 

I like it - I think it's a very credible and soulful take.

 

Peter

 

[Benji]

Interesting thread for sure.

 

Surprised that no one has said whether they like it or not - I guess it's more of a high brow thread than that.

 

I like it - I think it's a very credible and soulful take.

 

Peter

 

 

credible yes. soulful? not really. As good as it is, eventually it's just an alternative blue-eyed version of a fantastic song*

 

 

 

 

* I know FW is played to death and any dj/punter playing/dancing to it is guilty of necrophilia.

[Pete S]

just to add...ive just checked out p bradys auction,and the m l king disc is there aswell,i can confirm that the 2 discs are identical in quality and etchings,andthe m l king disc is defo from the 60's,so i would say there is more evidence to suggest the chris clark 45 is real as oppose to not!

Edited October 22, 2013 by Pete S

[Sheldonsoul]

Looks like the bidding has started with 22 days to go,up to £3150.00 so it's attracting bidders or mugs I'm not at all sure which lol

[stokesoulboy]

It's a weak version anyway , sorry CHRIS

[Peter Richer]

First of all, let me declare an interest. It is my Chris Clark record which is currently up for auction, so people should be aware of that before I make any comments.

 

Thank you Lee (Dobber) for your kind words on our dealings and conversations over the last year or so; and, from a position of your having seen them, you made some accurate points over both the Chris Clark and Martin Luther King records.

 

For anybody who might be interested in the record, or have any queries, I would suggest that you firstly read the description on the auction page, then do feel free to give Pat Brady a call (he has the vinyl and all supporting evidence to hand) and he will be happy to talk you through it in detail. 

 

Other than that, I shall try to refrain from posting again unless it is to generally clarify any new points (or mis-information) which need responding to. It is not my intention to try to 'bump' this thread or use it as a sales promotion. I would however welcome PMs or phone calls if anybody wishes to contact me.

 

Kind regards,

 

Peter

[Guest]

 

Other than that, I shall try to refrain from posting again unless it is to generally clarify any new points (or mis-information) which need responding to.

 

 

Have you got the deadwax mastering and matrix codes to share by any chance Peter...would be interesting to put the engineer's name and possible pressing date to it from them.

An ARP pressing plant label...so we assume they were going to do a run of it...maybe an RCA mastering number as they may well have processed the master to send on to ARP...and maybe a Motown matrix number which should include the producer's code. These can then be compared to Frank Wilson's version...would be interesting to see if we can learn anything that.The bevelled edge and deadwax width/turns are defo causing some confusion, mind.

[Phild]

I have got quite a lot (73 to be precise) of ARP test/quality control presses from both the Motown stable of labels and HDH's Invictus/Hot Wax/ Music Merchant setup and every single one of them has the ARP stamp.

 

Not to say they didn't do any that weren't stamped. But, having got quite a few, I would be looking for some very serious authentication on a record that doesn't have a stamp. Like info from someone who worked there saying they did occasionally do records without stamps.

 

Just my thoughts anyway.

[Guest]

I have got quite a lot (73 to be precise) of ARP test/quality control presses from both the Motown stable of labels and HDH's Invictus/Hot Wax/ Music Merchant setup and every single one of them has the ARP stamp.

 

 

Any of them got a bevelled edge, Phil?

[Phild]

Any of them got a bevelled edge, Phil?

 

I'll check this evening

[Pete S]

If anyone's wondering why I deleted all my posts on how to tell an original, I was asked to delete them.

[Phild]

If anyone's wondering why I deleted all my posts on how to tell an original, I was asked to delete them.

 

By who?

[Peter99]

By who?

Beat me to it Phil

 

Peter

 

[Phild]

Any of them got a bevelled edge, Phil?

 

Not a bevelled edge among them.

 

To expand on my earlier point. I'm not saying that they didn't do any that weren't stamped but were bevelled. But, having got quite a few, I would be looking for some very serious authentication on a record that doesn't have a stamp and does have a bevel. Like info from someone who worked there saying they did occasionally do records without stamps and with bevelled edges.

 

The absence of a stamp and the presence of a bevel would make me wary. But then again that's just me.