Has Anyone Ever Renewed A Label?

[Northern Soul Uk]

Just seen somewhere that you can buy blank printable 45 labels.

 

I wondered if anyone had ever used them to renew shabby labels by scanning an original one
and printing it off?

 

I know they could be open to abuse obviously, but just wondered if anyone had tried it?

 

Also begs the question, if you did renew a label and the record was an original would it devalue the record? even if
the label was a perfect copy?

 

Food for thought!

[Peter99]

It would seriously devalue the price of a record if you changed the label - why wouldn't it. Assuming of course that people were informed - the record wouldn't be original anymore would it. I suspect that it might be hard to "reproduce" a decent, credible label anyway - despite the best of todays technology.

 

Peter

 

[Northern Soul Uk]

yeah s'pose so Peter, cos you would be turning a shabby label into a good one, good point. Unless your intentions were just to keep the record and not sell it on, then I wouldn't suppose it mattered much.
Just got me wondering when I saw the labels for sale what use they could be put to, apart from for record companies or actually for your own original recordings.

[Peter99]

I think there was a similar thread on here a while back mate. Some of the more knowledgeable collectors were talking about not being able to find the proper ink and paper etc.

 

Peter

 

[Phild]

They are primarily used by cnuts creating labels to try and convince people that their worthless shite boots are originals.

 

They then get booked to DJ at their mates do's, and parade around preening themselves thinking oh how clever they are.

 

They go around in little groups. I don't know what a suitable collective term for such sad creatures is, but I'll have a think

Edited October 14, 2013 by phild

[Gene-r]

They go around in little groups. I don't know what a suitable collective term for such sad creatures is, but I'll have a think

 

A masturbation?

[Northern Soul Uk]

LOL!! Do they go round in the same group who play MP3s at events too?

[Phild]

LOL!! Do they go round in the same group who play MP3s at events too?

 

No. That's a different bunch. At least if they play mp3's they're not pretending to own a record that they don't.

[Pete S]

Magnificent Men - Keep On Climbing - Capitol.

[Northern Soul Uk]

Magnificent Men - Keep On Climbing - Capitol.

????

[Mal C]

I bought myself a Bernie Williams - Ever Again / Epic release recently, with the intent of getting a near perfect copy label from the bell one, demo of course, both are on styrene which would make for a very convincing disc, just for myself of course, I'm not embarking on a life of bootlegging, i just wondered whether you could do it convincingly...

 

I've obviously got too much time on my hands

[Premium Stuff]

A masturbation?

 

That's well funny 

 

As Peter says, the type of paper and print is a way of detecting whether discs are genuine or not - just like the plastic can be used to work out if a record is authentic because of the various pressing styles and markings.

 

It all comes down to different materials and techniques being available at different times and to ongoing innovation with these - just like any other manufacturing process.

 

Richard

Edited October 14, 2013 by Premium Stuff

[Northern Soul Uk]

I bought myself a Bernie Williams - Ever Again / Epic release recently, with the intent of getting a near perfect copy label from the bell one, demo of course, both are on styrene which would make for a very convincing disc, just for myself of course, I'm not embarking on a life of bootlegging, i just wondered whether you could do it convincingly...

 

I've obviously got too much time on my hands

I would imagine it would depend on what printer and ink you use, and of course how good the scan was that you'd be printing.

[Mal C]

I would imagine it would depend on what printer and ink you use, and of course how good the scan was that you'd be printing.

 easy bit, getting the old label off, the new one on would be the problem I reckon...

 

Happy to hold some mid week classes, if folk want to bring paper types, inks, prit stick and a selection of 7ts boots...

 

"Terra Love, just off to bootlegging class...!!"

Edited October 14, 2013 by Mal.C.

[Pete S]

????

 

Phil knows

[Northern Soul Uk]

 easy bit, getting the old label off, the new one on would be the problem I reckon...

 

Happy to hold some mid week classes, if folk want to bring paper types, inks, prit stick and a selection of 7ts boots...

 

"Terra Love, just off to bootlegging class...!!"

The labels I saw Phil were printable and self adhesive too :-)

[SHEFFSOUL]

Phil knows

 

why not share..i for one am curious...

[Pete S]

why not share..i for one am curious...

 

The track was LP only and I may be wrong but Phil did a label for a 7" version which was impossible to tell that it wasn't a real Capitol release

[Pete S]

Also when a top DJ sold up about 10 years ago, a lot of the originals were reissues or imports with high quality photocopies stuck on.  Though I don't know if he ever claimed they were originals, they just looked like it.  I got a nice pink Decca demo Lada Edmund Jr for £5.  Underneath it was UK MCA.

[Peter99]

That's well funny 

 

 

 

It all comes down to different materials and techniques being available at different times and to ongoing innovation with these - just like any other masturbating process.

 

Richard

 

 

Peter

 

[Godzilla]

...and once you've stuck the photocopied label on, if the record started to wear out, well you could carefully cut around the outside of the label and insert it into a carver cut from your first copy and it just might still be an original.

 

Reminds me of the old guy who used to sweep up in the postal sorting office I worked in as a teenager. He'd had the same broom for 35 years and it had only had six new heads and a dozen new handles...

Edited October 14, 2013 by Godzilla

[Phild]

The track was LP only and I may be wrong but Phil did a label for a 7" version which was impossible to tell that it wasn't a real Capitol release

 

 I did. But that was for Levine's SWONS film. Just for the graphics. Each record used in the pastiches was a 45. Obviously this one didn't exist so I made one up. When you played it it played Sister Europe by the Psychedelic Furs

 

I also created Little Ann - Who Are You Trying to Fool and Barbara Lewis - The Stars.

 

This however, is a million miles from photocopy labels stuck on fooking boots to fool people into thinking you've got the real record

[Pete S]

 I did. But that was for Levine's SWONS film. Just for the graphics. Each record used in the pastiches was a 45. Obviously this one didn't exist so I made one up. When you played it it played Sister Europe by the Psychedelic Furs

 

I also created Little Ann - Who Are You Trying to Fool and Barbara Lewis - The Stars.

 

This however, is a million miles from photocopy labels stuck on fooking boots to fool people into thinking you've got the real record

 

I know. Was just saying how good it was.

Is Sister Europe for sale?

Edited October 14, 2013 by Pete S

[SHEFFSOUL]

The track was LP only and I may be wrong but Phil did a label for a 7" version which was impossible to tell that it wasn't a real Capitol release

 

thats sounds interesting..i assumed Capitol labels were moulded on..so must have been very clever..personally i'm all for creating something that looks like an original..like LP only tracks or acetates as long as there is no intention to deceive for profit..

Edited October 14, 2013 by SHEFFSOUL

[Steve G]

Also when a top DJ sold up about 10 years ago, a lot of the originals were reissues or imports with high quality photocopies stuck on.  Though I don't know if he ever claimed they were originals, they just looked like it.  I got a nice pink Decca demo Lada Edmund Jr for £5.  Underneath it was UK MCA.

 

Hmmm I saw that too when I went through his stuff...stuck on labels wtf I thought....

[kevinsoulman]

I bought myself a Bernie Williams - Ever Again / Epic release recently, with the intent of getting a near perfect copy label from the bell one, demo of course, both are on styrene which would make for a very convincing disc, just for myself of course, I'm not embarking on a life of bootlegging, i just wondered whether you could do it convincingly...

 

I've obviously got too much time on my hands

epic surely eric

kev

[Rich B]

I have to confess as my Bernie Williams and Billy Woods became too worn to use, I did some scans and stuck them onto an Eric copy of BW and a boot of Billy Woods. They were very convincing. If I wanted to play either tune in a set I would made sure I had the original with me (by way of an excuse...) and of course I gave them away when I sold up.

 

I did hear someone had put the Bernie Williams to nefarious use....

[dthedrug]

 HI ALL    REPAIRING RECORDS IMPROVES RECORDS VALUE IF DONE PROPERLY?...

It is my opinion that sometimes it is fine to attempt to improve a damaged record, for example many collectors would not devalue an LP, if a LP cover had work done to it, like repairing a rip or gluing the seem, or in the case of the BEATLES butcher cover, attempt to remove the pasted on front cover if done properly increases it's value.

Many collectors have attempted to remove a warp sometimes successfully, a split record can be repaired, so can a centre that has been knocked out, however in some circles this repair is pointless, they feel it does not increase the value, and even a mint 45 with no centre will be worth only two thirds of the price of a complete 45,

My view is this any repair that is done to improve the record by looks or by sound is ok, if done properly, the debate on putting a new centre in a record again if done with care will improve the look of the 45, however in some cases it is best to leave alone, if the record came from a radio station and the DJ dinked the record, it's a part of the records history, in some cases writing on the label will increase the value the hand written copies of soul city records by DAVE GODIN, 

In my collection I have put new labels on 4 records, these records were water damaged and the replaced labels have made a vast difference to the record,

As a collector the improvements a new label does improve the record, the only concern for me is if someone uses  a new label to change it from a issue to a demo and then sells it as such, this is a act of fraud, and as such be treated as a crime, not as a hard luck incident, any one who deliberately cons a collectore by holding back any info reguardng repairs should get exposed as undesirable on our scene, it is down to the buyer to take action on the matter. 

Hope this write up is some kind of statue quoe

[Northern Soul Uk]

 HI ALL    REPAIRING RECORDS IMPROVES RECORDS VALUE IF DONE PROPERLY?...

It is my opinion that sometimes it is fine to attempt to improve a damaged record, for example many collectors would not devalue an LP, if a LP cover had work done to it, like repairing a rip or gluing the seem, or in the case of the BEATLES butcher cover, attempt to remove the pasted on front cover if done properly increases it's value.

Many collectors have attempted to remove a warp sometimes successfully, a split record can be repaired, so can a centre that has been knocked out, however in some circles this repair is pointless, they feel it does not increase the value, and even a mint 45 with no centre will be worth only two thirds of the price of a complete 45,

My view is this any repair that is done to improve the record by looks or by sound is ok, if done properly, the debate on putting a new centre in a record again if done with care will improve the look of the 45, however in some cases it is best to leave alone, if the record came from a radio station and the DJ dinked the record, it's a part of the records history, in some cases writing on the label will increase the value the hand written copies of soul city records by DAVE GODIN, 

In my collection I have put new labels on 4 records, these records were water damaged and the replaced labels have made a vast difference to the record,

As a collector the improvements a new label does improve the record, the only concern for me is if someone uses  a new label to change it from a issue to a demo and then sells it as such, this is a act of fraud, and as such be treated as a crime, not as a hard luck incident, any one who deliberately cons a collectore by holding back any info reguardng repairs should get exposed as undesirable on our scene, it is down to the buyer to take action on the matter. 

Hope this write up is some kind of statue quoe

So in short, in your opinion, if you have an original press and the label is fooked, printing and applying a new label of the same ilk, is OK? providing that you are not covering it up to disguise it as something it isn't?

[Mike]

So in short, in your opinion, if you have an original press and the label is fooked, printing and applying a new label of the same ilk, is OK? providing that you are not covering it up to disguise it as something it isn't?

 

 

are you for real?

if doing it for your own purposes and own use then guess thats fair enough

but if thats so, then wtf are you asking such a ridiculous question on here...

[Guest sharmo 1]

I have a box of around 200 water damaged label originals and thought about having some labels made that look like test pressings and hand wright the credits on and selling them as restored originals with non original labels just to make them look better than fucked labels as it would give a perfectly  good record a little more of an attractive appeal and usage any thoughts on this ?

[Premium Stuff]

I have a box of around 200 water damaged label originals and thought about having some labels made that look like test pressings and hand wright the credits on and selling them as restored originals with non original labels just to make them look better than fucked labels as it would give a perfectly  good record a little more of an attractive appeal and usage any thoughts on this ?

 

How about, make some nice repro sleeves based on the design you were planning to use on the labels.

 

Keep the 45s as they are but stick them in nice sleeves 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Edited October 14, 2013 by Premium Stuff

[dthedrug]

 HI ALL  In short it's ok to repair a record label, however f you are selling it and don't give all the details about it, just stating that it's VG+ will not do, if it has been repaired, any repairs done should be stated, if the label has been replaced as long as the buyer is aware it's ok, to conclude if you don't want a repaired record, don't buy it, it's down to the individual, however if you are against buying anything repaired, you must always drive a new car?  DAVE K  

[Phild]

I know. Was just saying how good it was.

Is Sister Europe for sale?

That copy is long gone. I think I have another somewhere in the picture sleeve.

Great record btw

[Phild]

So in short, in your opinion, if you have an original press and the label is fooked, printing and applying a new label of the same ilk, is OK? providing that you are not covering it up to disguise it as something it isn't?

What a truly daft and pointless question.

Some cynical person might think that by asking the question, that you intend to do as you've described to records with beat up labels that you do own, then maybe do the same to some records you don't own (ie bootlegs). Then play said items at your Leeds Central alldayer.

Who would know what's a fooked label and what's a bootleg?

I wouldn't think that. But maybe some cynical people just might.

Edited October 15, 2013 by phild

[Northern Soul Uk]

are you for real?

if doing it for your own purposes and own use then guess thats fair enough

but if thats so, then wtf are you asking such a ridiculous question on here...

If you read the original post I didn't say I was going to do any of what you say. It was a question aimed at viewing other peoples opinions, which is what forums are intended for. I merely stated that I had seen blank labels for sale and wondered what people would use them for? and if you read the rest of the replies, there are different opinions, as everyone is entitled to one, including yourself.

[Northern Soul Uk]

What a truly daft and pointless question.

Some cynical person might think that by asking the question, that you intend to so as you've described to fords with beat up labels that you do own, then maybe do the same to some records you don't own (ie bootlegs). Then play said items at your Leeds Central alldayer.

Who would know what's a fooked label and what's a bootleg?

I wouldn't think that. But maybe some cynical people just might.

Phil, what you have quoted me as saying above, was simply me quoting what dthedrug had said in his post, I was merely trying to simplifying his opinion.

Edited October 15, 2013 by Northern Soul UK

[Frankie Crocker]

They are primarily used by cnuts creating labels to try and convince people that their worthless shite boots are originals.

 

They then get booked to DJ at their mates do's, and parade around preening themselves thinking oh how clever they are.

 

They go around in little groups. I don't know what a suitable collective term for such sad creatures is, but I'll have a think

Call them the Cheapskate Forgers. They could rerelease the tunes on the Duff label and have a starry-flower logo to convince collectors they are buying a genuine fake.

[Steve G]

Dunno about cheapskate forgers Frankie. When I saw this "Top DJ" with all these carvers and labels stuck on my immediate thought was "how sad is this". I mean he clearly wanted to have the original records and had gone to a lot of effort to make it look (to him at least, since no other fooker would be fooled) as if he had them. Very sad infact.

[Dave Rimmer]

Dunno about cheapskate forgers Frankie. When I saw this "Top DJ" with all these carvers and labels stuck on my immediate thought was "how sad is this". I mean he clearly wanted to have the original records and had gone to a lot of effort to make it look (to him at least, since no other fooker would be fooled) as if he had them. Very sad infact.

 

So, name and shame.

[Sunnysoul]

Dunno about cheapskate forgers Frankie. When I saw this "Top DJ" with all these carvers and labels stuck on my immediate thought was "how sad is this". I mean he clearly wanted to have the original records and had gone to a lot of effort to make it look (to him at least, since no other fooker would be fooled) as if he had them. Very sad infact.

 

Any chance of naming said DJ ?

[Russ Vickers]

Yea, I would like to know too....PM if neccessary.

 

Best Russ

[Pete S]

Here comes the lynch mob...

[Steve G]

Yep as soon as we mention it, it'll be a "group kicking" for sure

[Pete S]

Yep as soon as we mention it, it'll be a "group kicking" for sure

 

I'm talking about something like 12 years ago.  OK I admit it, it was me, I lied about the "top DJ" bit.

[Pete S]

Apparently happening right now too, so I hear.

[Phild]

Call them the Cheapskate Forgers. They could rerelease the tunes on the Duff label and have a starry-flower logo to convince collectors they are buying a genuine fake.

 

There was a guy from Bradford some years ago with a penchant for embellishment.

 

I designed a record and label for him. The record was "I Can't Stop Lying" on Dickhead Records by Martin M***ley and The Five Quid Wraps

[Pete S]

There was a guy from Bradford some years ago with a penchant for embellishment.

 

I designed a record and label for him. The record was "I Can't Stop Lying" on Dickhead Records by Martin M***ley and The Five Quid Wraps

 

In any group of people there is always one who does that, exagerating, lying, always done that, been there...happened then and still happens today, why do they do it?

Edited October 15, 2013 by Pete S

[Gene-r]

In any group of people there is always one who does that, exagerating, lying, always done that, been there...happened then and still happens today, why do they do it?

 

Pete, in my family it's more of a challenge trying to find the one who doesn't (me?)!  Although I will say that my sister's husband is a very influential character with a huge following.  If someone has got or done something, you can always bet that he's got a 'mate' who's done it better! 

 

PS - sorry for off-topic post!

Edited October 15, 2013 by Gene-R

[Swifty]

Remember having an emidisc of L.J.Johnson - Your magic put a spell on me (I Know , I Know ) before it was released . I was convinced it was to released on 20th Century so spent a Sunday morning at work (Graphic Designers) using letraset , cameras etc and creating this masterpiece 20th Century label only for it to come out on bloody Phillips !!!!

 

Cheers

 

Swifty