Is Rnb Northernsoul?

[ImberBoy]

Is RnB Northernsoul?

 

Before I begin I want to say that I am not a tough guy, ok I know Kung Fu and shit but I am more of a lover than a fighter, just wanted to get that out of the way before I tell of what actually went down at Stoke last Saturday Night. As per normal I'm in the Windsor Suite throwing my shapes and some gorilla comes and taps me on the shoulder, “The Boss wants to talk to you”, I think Kev Roberts has found out about me and Soul Sam writing all that stuff on the toilet wall about Kev and Richard Searling but that was ages ago and Sam would never grass us up, I then start thinking that he now knows that it was me who used to flood the toilets every week at Wigan when I was an apprentice Plumber and used to see how many bog rolls I could force down and shit. I was kinda like frog marched but we ...pass Kev and I am ushered into a private room that leads upstairs to a rabbit warren of corridors and side rooms, it's dark and dingey and I’m not so much as scared but worried that I'm gonna get bummed or summit. A door opens and a massive man is sat smoking a cigar, he hands me a CD and tells me to “Enjoy” as I'm escorted back as quickly as I arrived I get time to study the CD. The CD says “The Devil's Music for Simon” and there are instructions to listen to it in the car on the way back to South Yorkshire.

We all finished the Nighter and I fired the Jaguar up and slipped in the CD, it was …........ RnB, it felt as uncomfortable as my first cavity search on my cross Turkey train journey where I discovered the cold knuckle of bureaucracy, I listened intently and as much as it pains me to say it, I loved it. I am disgusting.

 

Maurice & The Radiants - Baby You've Got It

[Kev John]

Yes !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! RnB can be NORTHERN my friend 

 

atb Kev 

Edited October 9, 2013 by Kev John

[hullsoul]

Simon

Explain Northern soul to me & I'll let you know

Cheers

Martyn

[Mr Smithy]

Define R&B in this particular case, you may have been cured.

[kevinsoulman]

WHAT IS NORTHERN SOUL

KEV

[ImberBoy]

Simon

Explain Northern soul to me & I'll let you know

Cheers

Martyn

 

Martyn considering it was probably you who started me on this bumpy road all those crazy years ago, I don't think I'll explain anything to you X

[hullsoul]

 

 

Is RnB Northernsoul?

 

 

Maurice & The Radiants - Baby You've Got It

 

Simon

Personally I wouldn't call Maurice & The Radiants an R n B track but that just me?

Cheers

Martyn

[Pete S]

Simon

Personally I wouldn't call Maurice & The Radiants an R n B track but that just me?

Cheers

Martyn

 

Well it is but it isn't.  It was, but now it's not.  If you see what I mean.  When it was released in the 60's it was R&B, but nowadays it's Northern Soul.  Because R&B in today's context doesn't mean what R&B meant in the 60's.  And then you've got the other so called R&B, the contemporary stuff by today's artists which bears no resemblence to R&B.  It sure is confusing.

[hullsoul]

Well it is but it isn't.  It was, but now it's not.  If you see what I mean.  When it was released in the 60's it was R&B, but nowadays it's Northern Soul.  Because R&B in today's context doesn't mean what R&B meant in the 60's.  And then you've got the other so called R&B, the contemporary stuff by today's artists which bears no resemblence to R&B.  It sure is confusing.

Pete

We could be here awhile

Cheers

Martyn

Edited October 9, 2013 by hullsoul

[Cunnie]

Well it is but it isn't.  It was, but now it's not.  If you see what I mean.  When it was released in the 60's it was R&B, but nowadays it's Northern Soul.  Because R&B in today's context doesn't mean what R&B meant in the 60's.  And then you've got the other so called R&B, the contemporary stuff by today's artists which bears no resemblence to R&B.  It sure is confusing.

So R&B is Northern Soul but it's not R&B.

Got it

[Mark S]

Right you have Fats Domino singing It keeps raining and Idris Muhammed,s Could heaven ever be like this ? and tons of stuff in between its indefineable

[ImberBoy]

Etta James Mellow Fellow

[hullsoul]

Etta James Mellow Fellow

More like it............R n B oldie

Cheers

Martyn

[John Parker]

What is Northern Soul?

 

Ive been collecting since 1972

 

Less sure now than then

 

Reason being..its such a broad church with edges that get more and more blurred..or do they?

 

Nothing to do with RnB but look at records like  The Crow...northern soul/Funk/Funky Northern ??

 

must be my age  

 

So to RnB...Yes and No ..or maybe

[Geeselad]

What is Northern Soul?

 

Ive been collecting since 1972

 

Less sure now than then

 

Reason being..its such a broad church with edges that get more and more blurred..or do they?

 

Nothing to do with RnB but look at records like  The Crow...northern soul/Funk/Funky Northern ??

 

must be my age  

 

So to RnB...Yes and No ..or maybe

on the contrary Northern soul for the majority is more rigidly defined than its ever been, its usually a selection of around 100 known oldies. 

[Roburt]

Maurice & The Radiants - Baby You've Got It

Back in the 60's when we danced to this at venues like the Wheel it was either 'Club Soul' or 'Big City Soul' 

............ R&B never came into it then & it doesn't these days either.

....... it's out & out soul with a big S

 

Much like this similar track ...........

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSwmlK_k_XE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmXeyPZnkwU

Edited October 10, 2013 by Roburt

[Guest MissHongkongfuey]

Simon.... what else was on the CD?  

[Pete S]

Maurice & The Radiants - Baby You've Got It

Back in the 60's when we danced to this at venues like the Wheel it was either 'Club Soul' or 'Big City Soul' 

............ R&B never came into it then & it doesn't these days either.

....... it's out & out soul with a big S

 

 

In the States it was classed as R & B though, which is what I was referring to.  Hence their R & B charts.

[Guest WheelCity45]

Wasnt Rnb where it all started ??? It's one of the sub genre that's a major part of the scene ! Fine examples below...

Jimmy Robin - I Can't Please You

Big Daddy Rodgers - I'm A Big Man

Mickey Champion - What Good Am I

Ac Reed - My Baby Been Cheating

Edited October 10, 2013 by WheelCity45

[Davenpete]

Technically ALL soul is RnB - however (and I'm talking as someone who has been heavily into RnB in the past) there should be a line in DJ's mind that makes them stop and say 'is it right to play this' - a lot of the jump blues stuff just shouldn't be played at an event that views itself as a Northern Soul venue - that's not to say the music is no good, it just isn't right - same goes for excessively slow soul stuff (like my pet hate Romance Watson).

Dx

[Spacehopper]

shouldnt get involved but cant help myself....been some very 'passionate' arguements about latin being played at kh, a 'northern soul allnighter' on facebook this week already

 

northern soul...as we all know originally used to desrcibe uptempo mid 60s soul..but as the years went by included rnb,funky,70s,blue eyed pop,tv themes,latin and all sorts..thats how i see it..so while the drum beat to rnb is slightly different to that of mid 60s uptempo soul it can still be called northern if benny troy or franky and johnny or carstairs is IMO

 

but

 

some rnb can be too 'rocky' as in rock n roll or dr feelgood....the same way some 70s can be too disco

 

its odd ive had northern soul lovers complain about rnb but dance to charles sheffield or big daddy rogers

 

jt parker cleared the floor round here 5 years back but now fills it

 

despite this most opposition still seems to come from oldies fans who have forgotten the original ethos of including diffrent 'soulful' sub genres which THEY use to have when they were younger and more open minded

 

i reckon anyway

 

dean

[Spacehopper]

Wasnt Rnb where it all started ??? It's one of the sub genre that's a major part of the scene ! Fine examples below...

Jimmy Robin - I Can't Please You

Big Daddy Rodgers - I'm A Big Man

Mickey Champion - What Good Am I

Ac Reed - My Baby Been Cheating

 

ah but these have been played at past northern soul events so are allowed by those who winge about rnb tracks they dont know being played today

[Patto]

So many influences have played a role in making up the sounds we accept as NORTHERN SOUL. R&B is just one facet..Records are described as Latin based,Motownesque,Funk egged,Philly sound,White Pop,Modern soul.etc etc.Basically its a broad church and it all has its place.Personally i love the element of hard edged R&B,and to me something like Jimmy Robins and Mickie Champion are perfect Northern Soul.I have never liked the tame pop influenced stuff much.So for me the R&B puts the NORTHERN into SOUL

Edited October 10, 2013 by Patto

[Emily73]

Where would we be without the Mod scene introducing tunes like JT Parker to the Soulies?? :-)

[Stevie T]

the difference is "a feeling"

[Pete S]

So many influences have played a role in making up the sounds we accept as NORTHERN SOUL. R&B is just one facet..Records are described as Latin based,Motownesque,Funk egged,Philly sound,White Pop,Modern soul.etc etc.Basically its a broad church and it all has its place.Personally i love the element of hard edged R&B,and to me something like Jimmy Robins and Mickie Champion are perfect Northern Soul.I have never liked the tame pop influenced stuff much.So for me the R&B puts the NORTHERN into SOUL

 

I never thought of Jimmy Robins and Mickie Champion as anything BUT Northern Soul, then suddenly mid 90's they got a new tag...

[Roburt]

In the States it was classed as R & B though, which is what I was referring to.  Hence their R & B charts.

Pete, you are , as always, right ...... but the tale being recounted above happened in the UK ..... so I was talking about the UK classification of the track in the mid 60's.

[Chalky]

Where would we be without the Mod scene introducing tunes like JT Parker to the Soulies?? :-)

Where would we be without the northern scene introducing tunes like JT Parker to the mod scene

Do tell which mod had the foresight to introduce this to the soulies?

Edited October 10, 2013 by chalky

[Louis]

Quote " The only R n B at all-nighters should be red and browns"

 

Gaz Kellett 1994

 

A true quote one night at the 100 club

 

Louis

[Chalky]

Northern soul isn't a genre, it is a scene. Its a mash up of whatever seems to work or have worked at some point in the scenes history

[Emily73]

Where would we be without the northern scene introducing tunes like JT Parker to the mod scene

Do tell which mod had the foresight to introduce this to the soulies?

 

Was there a particular Mod who had the foresight? I don't know? I wasn't there when it first got played, however it was being played on the Mod scene before it crossed over to the Soul scene. And if I'm wrong, then do tell which Soulie had the foresight to introduce this to the Mods?

[rodders]

Northern soul to me is a term coined by a English guy that described any form of black music mostly from the 60's that was danceable to us.

If an r n b sound was danceable it became termed northern soul, as was motown philly deep Latin (cal tjader etc)70's and eventually disco 80's etc, if we seperate northern soul into its true genre names we recognise them, but collectively we call it northern soul or rare soul, that's always been my take anyway. What it is brother✊

[Chalky]

Was there a particular Mod who had the foresight? I don't know? I wasn't there when it first got played, however it was being played on the Mod scene before it crossed over to the Soul scene. And if I'm wrong, then do tell which Soulie had the foresight to introduce this to the Mods?

You should check your facts. It was Andy Dyson who was playing it at All nighters, Lifeline etc. Mace sneakily saw who it was the rest is history. It was known about before Andy played it as it came from Butch. Des then got a copy and the rest followed, not many mind. So it was Soulies who introduced it first, if Mace hadn't looked what it was it would have been a lot longer before the mods got to hear it.

[Pete S]

You should check your facts. It was Andy Dyson who was playing it at All nighters, Lifeline etc. Mace sneakily saw who it was the rest is history. It was known about before Andy played it as it came from Butch. Des then got a copy and the rest followed, not many mind. So it was Soulies who introduced it first, if Mace hadn't looked what it was it would have been a lot longer before the mods got to hear it.

 

I see the same arguments going on on the youtube clip Chalky.

[Emily73]

You should check your facts. It was Andy Dyson who was playing it at All nighters, Lifeline etc. Mace sneakily saw who it was the rest is history. It was known about before Andy played it as it came from Butch. Des then got a copy and the rest followed, not many mind. So it was Soulies who introduced it first, if Mace hadn't looked what it was it would have been a lot longer before the mods got to hear it.

 

You've got me Chalky. 1-0 to you.

[Citizen P]

Northern soul isn't a genre, it is a scene. Its a mash up of whatever seems to work or have worked at some point in the scenes history

 

Spot on, when did all these divisions start to appear  ??

 

R&B, crossover,funky,gospel ????

 

I know I've said it before, but we select whatever fits from the broad church of Soul, they get played, if they work they become a Northern Soul Sound, at least I think that's how it worked  

[Mace]

I didn't actually sneak a peak of Mr Dysons copy, I pestered him to tell me and the Academy label was mentioned by Andy and then he told me he was winding me up....Des and I pulled up an Academy discography and figured it was JT....Moerer had one on his site for $150 so I requested a sound file to be sure...later that day my pc crashed and when I got back on line that copy had gone.....

As far as I'm aware Andy Dyson first played this record, but Id say the subsequent exposure it got from a few DJs from the Mod scene certainly ignited its popularity...

Edited October 10, 2013 by Mace

[Spacehopper]

unlucky that time mate but made up for it more recently with the one on the florida website was it ? 

 

see you at lifeline

 

atb

 

dean

[Mace]

Yeah, that was one lucky find, plus one off eBay for $160 not long after I missed Moerers....first copy cost me a monkey off Butch mind....

[Chalky]

You've got me Chalky. 1-0 to you.

I didn't realise we were playing a game? How old are you? You simply made a statement, one you couldn't corroborate because you weren't there, twice, and I simply corrected you. Not out to score points just get the facts right.

Edited October 10, 2013 by chalky

[Soul-slider]

Well it is but it isn't.  It was, but now it's not.  If you see what I mean.  When it was released in the 60's it was R&B, but nowadays it's Northern Soul.  Because R&B in today's context doesn't mean what R&B meant in the 60's.  And then you've got the other so called R&B, the contemporary stuff by today's artists which bears no resemblence to R&B.  It sure is confusing.

 

Ah, R&B....but what about R'N'B?

[Ernie Andrews]

shouldnt get involved but cant help myself....been some very 'passionate' arguements about latin being played at kh, a 'northern soul allnighter' on facebook this week already

 

northern soul...as we all know originally used to desrcibe uptempo mid 60s soul..but as the years went by included rnb,funky,70s,blue eyed pop,tv themes,latin and all sorts..thats how i see it..so while the drum beat to rnb is slightly different to that of mid 60s uptempo soul it can still be called northern if benny troy or franky and johnny or carstairs is IMO

 

but

 

some rnb can be too 'rocky' as in rock n roll or dr feelgood....the same way some 70s can be too disco

 

its odd ive had northern soul lovers complain about rnb but dance to charles sheffield or big daddy rogers

 

jt parker cleared the floor round here 5 years back but now fills it

 

despite this most opposition still seems to come from oldies fans who have forgotten the original ethos of including diffrent 'soulful' sub genres which THEY use to have when they were younger and more open minded

 

i reckon anyway

 

dean

How can you class The Baltimore & ohio marching band as mid sixties soul- Mid-sixties yes , Soul NO! Northern Soul Yes!

[Soul-slider]

I think today's contemporary R&B stands for Rhythm and Beats. 

[Mark S]

Northern soul isn't a genre, it is a scene. Its a mash up of whatever seems to work or have worked at some point in the scenes history

 

This statement should be pinned .

 

Spot on Chalky

[spot]

Simple Simon, "NO".  

Spot.  

[Diddy Morgan]

is the answer different if you ask, is northern soul r'n'b  

[SOULCENTRAL]

Define R&B in this particular case, you may have been cured.

 

R&B IS THE ABBREVIATION FOR RHYTHM AND BLUES......... NOT NORTHERN SOUL.

 

IN MY WORLD R&B IN ITS LONGER GUTSE STANDS FOR...........

 

RUBBISH AND BO**OCKS!!!!!

 

REGARDS ROY

[hullsoul]

R&B IS THE ABBREVIATION FOR RHYTHM AND BLUES......... NOT NORTHERN SOUL.

 

IN MY WORLD R&B IN ITS LONGER GUTSE STANDS FOR...........

 

RUBBISH AND BO**OCKS!!!!!

 

REGARDS ROY

Roy

Spoken like a true Disco Diva

Cheers

Martyn

[SOULCENTRAL]

Roy

Spoken like a true Disco Diva

Cheers

Martyn

 

HI MARTYN,

 

Will r&b pass for disco?

 

Ok, R&B,,,,, how about Razor Blade music!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

ROY

[Guest chrislokeh]

What is Northern Soul?

 

Ive been collecting since 1972

 

Less sure now than then

 

Reason being..its such a broad church with edges that get more and more blurred..or do they?

 

Nothing to do with RnB but look at records like  The Crow...northern soul/Funk/Funky Northern ??

 

must be my age  

 

So to RnB...Yes and No ..or maybe

If you love Northern Soul  and you tap your foot or dance to it ,its Northern Soul