Handbags At Dawn

[KevH]

Neither had I until this summer.  We're still trying to get some compensation!   (This was a holiday not a weekender though)

 

if Billy Butlin was alive,i wouldn't have liked to ask him for compensation.Always looked a hard nut to me.

[Citizen P]

They were two of his songs. Blimey 'out Of Time' I love the record but wouldn't want to hear it out much. Mind you the Free's 'All Right Now' was a massive skinhead/mod record around 1969/70 we would moon-hop to it in our DMs; a tenner on that being a big record in 6 months time.

 

Oh , I see, not the greatest Chris Farlowe fan so was unaware.

[hullsoul]

Mild sway's good for me.

Kev

Never liked Mild,always been a lager man myself but there again that usually makes me fall down not sway

Cheers

Martyn

[Mike]

amount of offtopic posts in this and other threads are getting a pain

ask can you turn them down

thanks

mike

[Geeselad]

There's another one next spring.....anyway hope you go back. yes the hotel one was probably The Grosvenor. It's now a much bigger event....and even better too....

 

......

 

Anyway back to intolerance......the only intollerance I have ever witnessed on the soul scene hasn't come from the "rare soul" or "progressive" whatever you want to call it elements. In the 90's I once made the mis-judgment of taking a booking "up north"  in the NW which despite being told by the promotor to "play what you want they're a good open minded crowd", was just a local social night for wigan oldies fans. I did a 60's set but of course I didn't have Judy Street, Younghearts, holly st James, Paul Anka in my box.

 

Feck me you should have heard the noise...... "Why haven't you got Drizabone?", "Call yourself a DJ?", "Get this sh8t off","Every self respecting DJ has Barbara McNair" etc etc....That evening I met the most ignorant, unpleasant and musically retarded bunch of knobs I have ever encountered! (now there's a bit of intollerance from me!) Since then I have had one or two mis-matches of expectation over the years same as all DJs, but nothing as unpleasant.

 

anyone remember the stoke oldies crwd throwing chairs accross the dancefloor at the lesuire bowl, mid 8ts? 

[Len]

There's another one next spring.....anyway hope you go back. yes the hotel one was probably The Grosvenor. It's now a much bigger event....and even better too....

 

......

 

Anyway back to intolerance......the only intollerance I have ever witnessed on the soul scene hasn't come from the "rare soul" or "progressive" whatever you want to call it elements. In the 90's I once made the mis-judgment of taking a booking "up north"  in the NW which despite being told by the promotor to "play what you want they're a good open minded crowd", was just a local social night for wigan oldies fans. I did a 60's set but of course I didn't have Judy Street, Younghearts, holly st James, Paul Anka in my box.

 

Feck me you should have heard the noise...... "Why haven't you got Drizabone?", "Call yourself a DJ?", "Get this sh8t off","Every self respecting DJ has Barbara McNair" etc etc....That evening I met the most ignorant, unpleasant and musically retarded bunch of knobs I have ever encountered! (now there's a bit of intollerance from me!) Since then I have had one or two mis-matches of expectation over the years same as all DJs, but nothing as unpleasant.

 

 

I've had worse  

 

All part of the 'fun'

 

Len  

Edited October 4, 2013 by LEN

[Guest Byrney]

There's another one next spring.....anyway hope you go back. yes the hotel one was probably The Grosvenor. It's now a much bigger event....and even better too....

 

......

 

Anyway back to intolerance......the only intollerance I have ever witnessed on the soul scene hasn't come from the "rare soul" or "progressive" whatever you want to call it elements. In the 90's I once made the mis-judgment of taking a booking "up north"  in the NW which despite being told by the promotor to "play what you want they're a good open minded crowd", was just a local social night for wigan oldies fans. I did a 60's set but of course I didn't have Judy Street, Younghearts, holly st James, Paul Anka in my box.

 

Feck me you should have heard the noise...... "Why haven't you got Drizabone?", "Call yourself a DJ?", "Get this sh8t off","Every self respecting DJ has Barbara McNair" etc etc....That evening I met the most ignorant, unpleasant and musically retarded bunch of knobs I have ever encountered! (now there's a bit of intollerance from me!) Since then I have had one or two mis-matches of expectation over the years same as all DJs, but nothing as unpleasant.

 

I had a similar experience in the 90s. After Djing for the same promoter at another venue through the mid late 80s he booked me to play the same kind of set: mainly underplayed oldies / few newies. This was when there was a first wave of returnees and I got the same kind of stick. However me and another Dj (who will remain nameless unless she wants me to name her ;) ) are far from shrinking violets so we let them know what we thought, having gave up trying to reason with the dickheads.

It almost ended in a toe to toe with the promoter coming between us, we packed up and left them to it. Again as Steve, the only intolerance I've seen is from the Nostalgia scene.

[Guest Byrney]

I had a similar experience in the 90s. After Djing for the same promoter at another venue through the mid late 80s he booked me to play the same kind of set: mainly underplayed oldies / few newies. This was when there was a first wave of returnees and I got the same kind of stick. However me and another Dj (who will remain nameless unless she wants me to name her ;) ) are far from shrinking violets so we let them know what we thought, having gave up trying to reason with the dickheads.

It almost ended in a toe to toe with the promoter coming between us, we packed up and left them to it. Again as Steve, the only intolerance I've seen is from the Nostalgia scene.

Another comparison is Guys Blackburn Nighters. Proper Northern Soul ala newies and underplayed. However Steve Whittle would do the odd oldies spot which I seem to recall mostly cleared the floor as the scene then was back to its progressive ethic. We just sat down, went in the record bar or fecked about rather than show disrespect by giving Steve stick. Edited October 4, 2013 by Byrney

[Guest in town Mikey]

I've had worse  

 

All part of the 'fun'

 

Len  

 

And you cant even go home and get away from Nina's complaints 

[Len]

And you cant even go home and get away from Nina's complaints 

 

You are so right! - The other week I was working on a set, playing some 'beautiful Mid-tempo' number, Nina shouts from the living room......"Christ Len, is that a record or a Hymn?!"  .....I kid you not........She knows nothing I tell you!  

 

Fun, fun, fun  

 

All the best,

 

Len  

[Back Street Blue]

You are so right! - The other week I was working on a set, playing some 'beautiful Mid-tempo' number, Nina shouts from the living room......"Christ Len, is that a record or a Hymn?!"  .....I kid you not........She knows nothing I tell you!  

 

Fun, fun, fun  

 

All the best,

 

Len  

 

 

.......at least she;'s inquisitive about what type of stuff you're playing.....mine just shouts "put your headphones on"!! 

[barney]

I have a lot of respect for simon but we have long since agreed to disagree on certain issues wrt allniters vs soul nights ,and the differing genres of music within the scene , .

how then can he comment on something he admits to not attending and these comments based on hearsay from maybe a dozen people out of the thousands who attended and probably had a cracking weekend ,

this dissing that goes on within the soul scene is getting a bit tedious and the word intolerance is really showing through,

surely for our scene to endure we have to be inclusive and welcome newcomers to the scene or do you elitists want the scene to wither on the vine and die out on your demise , would it not be better to tolerate these people and lead by example in the ways and manners of our scene .

[steve s]

But do the rightful owners know that they're there

Cheers

Martyn part of the East Hull set...........membership of one  

I just want to point out that the East Hull set has a membership of more than one and that it was running 11 days before you joined it!!

TTFN

Steve

[Len]

we have to be inclusive

 

Yes - 'Inclusive, not exclusive'.....'tis our motto mate, and it works a treat   

 

All the best,

 

Len  

[Dave Moore]

Anyway back to intolerance......the only intollerance I have ever witnessed on the soul scene hasn't come from the "rare soul" or "progressive" whatever you want to call it elements. In the 90's I once made the mis-judgment of taking a booking "up north"  in the NW which despite being told by the promotor to "play what you want they're a good open minded crowd", was just a local social night for wigan oldies fans. I did a 60's set but of course I didn't have Judy Street, Younghearts, holly st James, Paul Anka in my box.

You just described my last 2 "DJ" experiences in UK, probably 12 or so years ago now.

Me: "What does your crowd like to hear"

Promotor: "Anything that's quality Dave, do your own thing".

Me: "Great!"

First 45 on the turntable Sonny Herman (Utopia), next one - Topics (Chadwick). Dancefloor was like Oil and Water - Pooof! Gone! It was down hill from there. I struggled through the hour with requests for Archie Bell, Curtis Mayfield, Bobby Goldsboro, Barbara McNair, that awful thing on Goldie et al until I finished. The guy following me immediately played 'Move On Up' and got an ovation at the end of it. On leaving the stage I was met by Dave Greet holding out a full tumbler of Jack Daniels and the words ""Fook Me Dave, that must have hurt! LOL!"

Never again!

Regards,

Dave

[Len]

You just described my last 2 "DJ" experiences in UK, probably 12 or so years ago now.

Me: "What does your crowd like to hear"

Promotor: "Anything that's quality Dave, do your own thing".

Me: "Great!"

First 45 on the turntable Sonny Herman (Utopia), next one - Topics (Chadwick). Dancefloor was like Oil and Water - Pooof! Gone! It was down hill from there. I struggled through the hour with requests for Archie Bell, Curtis Mayfield, Bobby Goldsboro, Barbara McNair, that awful thing on Goldie et al until I finished. The guy following me immediately played 'Move On Up' and got an ovation at the end of it. On leaving the stage I was met by Dave Greet holding out a full tumbler of Jack Daniels and the words ""Fook Me Dave, that must have hurt! LOL!"

Never again!

Regards,

Dave

 

Brilliant - Good ol' Dave. Take it as a compliment mate - I do...........it's either that or cry  

 

All the best,

 

Len  

[barney]

what were you doing before your spots Dave ,unless you were first up ,surely you should have been watchin the dance floor and gauging the punters vis a vis what will play and what  will not to give you some idea of what to play to entertain the punters , looks like you weren't doing your homework .

not that its any of my business

Edited October 4, 2013 by barney

[Len]

what were you doing before your spots Dave ,unless you were first up ,surely you should have been watchin the dance floor and gauging the punters vis a vis what will play and what  will not to give you some idea of what to play to entertain the punters , looks like you weren't doing your homework .

not that its any of my business

 

Me: "What does your crowd like to hear"

Promotor: "Anything that's quality Dave, do your own thing".

Me: "Great!"

 

....As usual - The promoters fault, but the D.J gets it in the neck.

 

That's my take on it anyway.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited October 4, 2013 by LEN

[Dave Moore]

I arrived from the US. I had asked the 'promoters' what the score was beforehand. Both knew the type of records I would play, that's why they asked me. I had 150 x 45s with me that I figured would fit the bill. At this particular gig there were approx. 1000 bootlegs and UK reissues that the 'resident'' DJs played collectively from behind the Decks.

I could have easily played from their collective boxes - But I didn't. I listened to the spots before mine and figured I'd go down well, something a little different and stuff that maybe the audience didn't hear week in week out. Granted I was wrong. They didn't really want a DJ, they wanted a juke box with pre set 'chooooons'(God how I hate that word).

Maybe I should have ditched 30 years of collecting ethos, said, "f*ck it!" and become one of the myriad of people to whom soul is just a means of seeing your name on a flyer, bootlegs an all? Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen. We've obviously not met. ;-)

I'm more than happy with what I do, I've no qualms about what others do either. Strokes for folks and all that. But in this particular instance, I was asked to "do my thing'. Maybe, just maybe that instruction should have been more thought out by the people really responsible.(For their own gigs ffs!)

Still - What do I know? You know, you're right, I should have done my homework - What a knob I am. Kinda in danger of staying too far off the original topic now though.

Regards,

Dave

[Len]

'chooooons'(God how I hate that word).

Dave

 

Noted - I'll add it to the 'Shudder List' mate.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

[Len]

I arrived from the US. I had asked the 'promoters' what the score was beforehand. Both knew the type of records I would play, that's why they asked me. I had 150 x 45s with me that I figured would fit the bill. At this particular gig there were approx. 1000 bootlegs and UK reissues that the 'resident'' DJs played collectively from behind the Decks.

I could have easily played from their collective boxes - But I didn't. I listened to the spots before mine and figured I'd go down well, something a little different and stuff that maybe the audience didn't hear week in week out. Granted I was wrong. They didn't really want a DJ, they wanted a juke box with pre set 'chooooons'(God how I hate that word).

Maybe I should have ditched 30 years of collecting ethos, said, "f*ck it!" and become one of the myriad of people to whom soul is just a means of seeing your name on a flyer, bootlegs an all? Yeah right! Like that's gonna happen. We've obviously not met. ;-)

I'm more than happy with what I do, I've no qualms about what others do either. Strokes for folks and all that. But in this particular instance, I was asked to "do my thing'. Maybe, just maybe that instruction should have been more thought out by the people really responsible.(For their own gigs ffs!)

Still - What do I know? You know, you're right, I should have done my homework - What a knob I am. Kinda in danger of staying too far off the original topic now though.

Regards,

Dave

 

Not 'off topic' really mate, the thread is about how different the Scene has become. I remember back in the 90's, when I booked D.J's I always had a long conversation telling them to 'do their thing', and that I couldn't give a sh*t about the dance floor - BEFORE anyone jumps on that - It was my way of 'pushing' them that little bit more to make them REALLY 'do their thing', because I meant it - Why would I hire anyone if I can do the same from my shelves?

 

Back then places were more 'forgiving' mind - ridiculous using the word 'forgiving', because that is what it's all about.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

Edited October 4, 2013 by LEN

[Wiggyflat]

How could you not dance to The Topics on Chadwick....what a great underplayed oldie...heathens.Come to think of it The Topics on.Dream is exactly that every uptempo dancers Dream....I remember The Ritz dayers in the nineties when the oldies were an.antidote to all the midtempo and beat ballad stuff.It's getting a bit weary now but I'm not liking the music on the rare scene...off to Hamburg next week though to see how the open minded Europeans do it.Wish me luck.

[Steve G]

Not 'off topic' really mate, the thread is about how different the Scene has become. I remember back in the 90's, when I booked D.J's I always had a long conversation telling them to 'do their thing', and that I couldn't give a sh*t about the dance floor - BEFORE anyone jumps on that - It was my way of 'pushing' them that little bit more to make them REALLY 'do their thing', because I meant it - Why would I hire anyone if I can do the same from my shelves?

 

Back then places were more 'forgiving' mind - ridiculous using the word 'forgiving', because that is what it's all about.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

 

What I learnt from my experience, which was probably about the same time as Dave's was NEVER rely on a promotor to tell you you've got free reign / do your thing etc. Do your own research or don't accept bookings if unsure. Much happier for all..... 

Edited October 4, 2013 by Steve G

[Len]

What I learnt from my experience, which was probably about the same time as Dave's was NEVER rely on a promotor to tell you you've got free reign / do your thing etc. Do your own research or don't accept bookings if unsure. Much happier for all..... 

 

Yes you are 'right'.....but it's so 'wrong'

 

I'm still surprised at it personally.

 

All the best,

 

Len  

[Dave Moore]

What I learnt from my experience, which was probably about the same time as Dave's was NEVER rely on a promotor to tell you you've got free reign / do your thing etc. Do your own research or don't accept bookings if unsure. Much happier for all.....

Exactly!

And that Sir, is the reason that my 'DJ-ing', outside of family gatherings, is now restricted to two particular hours a year.

Although I did an hour in Chicago with Greety/Fergie/and The Rare Soul Millionaires (Sonny and Aret) in 2009.

Regards,

Dave

[Guest penny]

Some observations in reply

- The music on offer at Skegness was all Northern Soul and no doubt enjoyed by all on this site at one time or another. To call it crap implies a convenient loss of memory

- some of your comments show the same sheep-like unimaginative conformity you are intolerant of,

- Northern Soul does not belong to a select group of self-appointed Brits. The music comes generally from African American artists who seem to appreciate greatly the recognition that their efforts are bringing albeit 40-50 years too late

- I love the music and do not consider myself elite in doing so. How you can judge whether someone loves it more than me when you have never met me nor know me leaves me puzzled

- that the music was brought to life by a number of people on this site (but also by the much maligned Mr Winstanley) is not in dispute and much appreciated. It does not give these people a monopoly on it's use nor the right to prescribe the manner in which it is used. (unless I've misunderstood copyright law all these years)

- Since many of the sounds we all love come from the 60s and 70s, I do not know where you consider moribund nostalgia begins and ends. To suggest it belongs to people who went to Butlins but not to people who claim to be the Northern Soul elite is open to debate. I wouldn't say that the term belongs to either of them.

- it's not only fascists that are intolerant

- music is to be enjoyed and by the more, the merrier

I didnt say the music at skeggy was crap. In response to someone criticising those who dont like something, in the case an oldies fest, for their intolerance, I just pointed out that intolerance can be desirable, like an intolerance of crap music, nazi rallies, noel edmonds etc. And that such an intolerance, of contemporary culture, is what inspired the northern soul scene in the first place.

However, you are wrong in thinking that we all must love all northern oldies. Site is called soul source not northern soul source, and seeing as how you like to lecture about the 'origins of the music', then you must know that there is a whole world of soul music besides the northern soul scene.

If you love music, as you say you do, then you are part of an elite in that respect, as most people do not. You are not superior to anyone because of it of course, being part if an elite doesnt imply superiority except in the designated field..

I maintain that, in my experience, music lovers have a hunger for new and varied music and can immiediately connect with a track. Non music lovers slowly learn to like particular tracks based more on chance exposure through familiarity. Therefore I do not see that passion for music personified in folks who listen to the same shit for years. My dad loves the beach boys, or simon and garfunky, he doesn't love music. There's a difference. Much as I love him, he belongs nowhere near any decks or any dancefloor.

That is passion for their own past, not for music. That is moribund nostalgia. Me liking 60s music is not nostalgic, I wasnt there and why would i be nostalgic for a 60s detroit ghetto?, and it's not born out of a general nostalgia for a prefered era, just as, i guess, most peoples' love of picasso isnt born out of nostalgia for the 1920s or whatever.

I respect everyone for who they are but its as ludicrous to respect everyone's musical tastes equally as is it to respect everyone's knowledge of ancient egypt equally.

All this 'music's there to be enjoyed' business sounds right on but is glib. We're not babies who just lie back and inertly enjoy. Someone has to care about quality somewhere along the line. If no one did, this music would be land fill by now, if it had been made at all.

All your beloved oldies were at one time newies. If everyone had always been so entrenched in their comfort zones, these would have never been heard.

If you want to relive your past go right ahead, but if I felt passion for the northern soul scene, I wouldnt want to be represented by such a mentality.

Cheers

Mik.

Edited October 4, 2013 by penny

[bobkayli]

I didnt say the music at skeggy was crap. In response to someone criticising those who dont like something, in the case an

for their intolerance, I just pointed out that intolerance can be desirable, like an intolerance of crap music, nazi rallies, noel edmonds etc. And that such an intolerance, of contemporary culture, is what inspired the northern soul scene in the first place.

However, you are wrong in thinking that we all must love all northern oldies. Site is called soul source not northern soul source, and seeing as how you like to lecture about the 'origins of the music', then you must know that there is a whole world of soul music besides the northern soul scene.

If you love music, as you say you do, then you are part of an elite in that respect, as most people do not. You are not superior to anyone because of it of course, being part if an elite doesnt imply superiority except in the designated field..

I maintain that, in my experience, music lovers have a hunger for new and varied music and can immiediately connect with a track. Non music lovers slowly learn to like particular tracks based more on chance exposure through familiarity. Therefore I do not see that passion for music personified in folks who listen to the same shit for years. My dad loves the beach boys, or simon and garfunky, he doesn't love music. There's a difference. Much as I love him, he belongs nowhere near any decks or any dancefloor.

That is passion for their own past, not for music. That is moribund nostalgia. Me liking 60s music is not nostalgic, I wasnt there and why would i be nostalgic for a 60s detroit ghetto?, and it's not born out of a general nostalgia for a prefered era, just as, i guess, most peoples' love of picasso isnt born out of nostalgia for the 1920s or whatever.

I respect everyone for who they are but its as ludicrous to respect everyone's musical tastes equally as is it to respect everyone's knowledge of ancient egypt equally.

All this 'music's there to be enjoyed' business sounds right on but is glib. We're not babies who just lie back and inertly enjoy. Someone has to care about quality somewhere along the line. If no one did, this music would be land fill by now, if it had been made at all.

All your beloved oldies were at one time newies. If everyone had always been so entrenched in their comfort zones, these would have never been heard.

If you want to relive your past go right ahead, but if I felt passion for the northern soul scene, I wouldnt want to be represented by such a mentality.

Cheers

Mik.

 

I seem to have touched a nerve.

Your analysis comes with passion but many generalisations which do not hold up in the real world:

- You continue to make many prejudgements about me which are simply not true(highlighted above in red)

- You make glib assumptions about other people which are one dimensional and superficial (highlighted above in blue)

- You arrive at conclusions which seem based on incomprehension that someone who enjoys music may demand quality (highlighted above in green).

 

Quality is subjective and in the eye of the beholder. Where the line is between commercial interests and quality is very difficult to discern, they both play their part in all music to a greater or lesser extent. The view you are approaching of musical idealists who know best and the rest are herd-like is naive and quite frankly offensive. Feelings come a lot into the perspective of what music is liked by an individual. Since we all have feelings, these should be respected. That I should be expected to respect someone more because they have appointed themselves an elite is arrogant and something better persons than me have fought wars over.

 

Interesting debate though

 

Paul.  

[bobkayli]

I seem to have touched a nerve.

Your analysis comes with passion but many generalisations which do not hold up in the real world:

- You continue to make many prejudgements about me which are simply not true(highlighted above in red)

- You make glib assumptions about other people which are one dimensional and superficial (highlighted above in blue)

- You arrive at conclusions which seem based on incomprehension that someone who enjoys music may demand quality (highlighted above in green).

 

Quality is subjective and in the eye of the beholder. Where the line is between commercial interests and quality is very difficult to discern, they both play their part in all music to a greater or lesser extent. The view you are approaching of musical idealists who know best and the rest are herd-like is naive and quite frankly offensive. Feelings come a lot into the perspective of what music is liked by an individual. Since we all have feelings, these should be respected. That I should be expected to respect someone more because they have appointed themselves an elite is arrogant and something better persons than me have fought wars over.

 

Interesting debate though

 

Paul.  

Am just off to a nice bottle of Pouilly Fume and some oysters, Stanley Turrentine's Blue Hour will be playing in the background followed by Coltranes Love Supreme and the delightful company of my wife.

 

Enjoy your Saturday evening too!!