Records With Inherent Sound Faults

[Guest Johnny Mack]

Noticed on the recent Anglo American List the statement that all copies of Jean Carter on US Decca have an inherent sound fault - wish I'd known that earlier - always wondered why my mint (unplayed when I got it) demo copy played with a crackle - must have cleaned it dozens of times over trying to clear that crackle - but to no avail (and before anyone asks I've always used a 50/50 cut of isopropyl and distilled water without encountering any vinyl/styrene deterioration).

Got me thinking as to what other 45's have inherent sound faults - I've got a Tony Diamond on Blue Rock which doesnt play properly through each channel. Its fine if you crank up the volume and adjust the balance. Dont know whether that's an inherent fault or abuse by the prior owner !

Additionally, I've heard that some copies of Clara Woods on Imperial have a similar channel distortion fault.

Must be loads of others that you good folk can share which may help avoid a disappointment in the future.

Take care

John

[Guest Dan]

Noticed on the recent Anglo American List the statement that all copies of Jean Carter on US Decca have an inherent sound fault - wish I'd known that earlier - always wondered why my mint (unplayed when I got it) demo copy played with a crackle - must have cleaned it dozens of times over trying to clear that crackle - but to no avail (and before anyone asks I've always used a 50/50 cut of isopropyl and distilled water without encountering any vinyl/styrene deterioration).

Got me thinking as to what other 45's have inherent sound faults - I've got a Tony Diamond on Blue Rock which doesnt play properly through each channel. Its fine if you crank up the volume and adjust the balance. Dont know whether that's an inherent fault or abuse by the prior owner !

Additionally, I've heard that some copies of Clara Woods on Imperial have a similar channel distortion fault.

Must be loads of others that you good folk can share which may help avoid a disappointment in the future.

Take care

John

pat brady told me ages ago that kenny whatsisface lost and found on blue rock all hiss. dunno if he was right, but i didn't buy the copy anyway.

[Martint]

pat brady told me ages ago that kenny whatsisface lost and found on blue rock all hiss. dunno if he was right, but i didn't buy the copy anyway.

Martha Branch - You has horrible distortion on all copies AFAIK...

my copy of Kenny Carter Lost and found doesn't have any hiss (well not that my deaf lugs have noticed)

[Steve Plumb]

my copy of Kenny Carter Lost and found doesn't have any hiss (well not that my deaf lugs have noticed)

My KC doesn't hiss either!

I'd suggest the B side (I'm a lonely girl) of Dorothy Moore on ABC. ALL issue copies play with terrible sound reproduction (never seen a demo)......the best mid 60's Northern side NEVER played. T'other side (Believe it or not) plays great and is also brill Northern imho.

Cheers

Steve

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

Noticed on the recent Anglo American List the statement that all copies of Jean Carter on US Decca have an inherent sound fault - wish I'd known that earlier - always wondered why my mint (unplayed when I got it) demo copy played with a crackle - must have cleaned it dozens of times over trying to clear that crackle - but to no avail (and before anyone asks I've always used a 50/50 cut of isopropyl and distilled water without encountering any vinyl/styrene deterioration).

...All the Joey Heatherton "When You call Me Baby" pink Decca demos I've ever encountered have the same problem as the Jean Carter, John. Including my own one, I'm sorry to say...

I think the original problem lies in the mastering rather than the pressings themselves - the cutting stylus may have been getting hot towards the end of a busy day's mastering and obviously didn't make a deep enough groove for a home stylus to travel at the right depth to create a true sound reproduction.

You can hear Jean in "From Mastertape" quality on a Kent album - forget which one offhand, sorry!

TONY

[soulfulsaint]

...All the Joey Heatherton "When You call Me Baby" pink Decca demos I've ever encountered have the same problem as the Jean Carter, John. Including my own one, I'm sorry to say...

I think the original problem lies in the mastering rather than the pressings themselves - the cutting stylus may have been getting hot towards the end of a busy day's mastering and obviously didn't make a deep enough groove for a home stylus to travel at the right depth to create a true sound reproduction.

You can hear Jean in "From Mastertape" quality on a Kent album - forget which one offhand, sorry!

TONY

Every time I buy a Mint Minus or VG++ record from EBay there is a sound fault - is that merely a coincidence?

[Guest Dan]

my copy of Kenny Carter Lost and found doesn't have any hiss (well not that my deaf lugs have noticed)

ooops. well, don't want to defame pat, it must have been something else

sur eit was on blue rock, maybe it was the tony diamond thing? sorry!

[Guest NASHEE]

Linda Hopkins-Magic song

every copy jumps in a certain part

best

Linda Couldstone

Fat bird....with nice Tunes

[Jumpinjoan]

My Kenny Carlton and Tony Diamond play without any hiss.... although the b side of KC ... the best side imo ... doesn't play so good.

Also ...while on the subject of Blue Rock ... i can't play my Delettes any more .... it looks mint ... but sounds crap ... can't understand that one as it used to play great.

Have noticed that all the Embraceables on Sidra i've heard seem to have been recorded quite 'low'... if you know what i mean.

Also every copy of Jock Mitchell - No Mad Woman ... has a hiss at the begining .... varies from record to record ... on some the hiss only lasts a few seconds....

Then there's mine ... that lasts until the last two bars ... totally unplayable ... typical!!

[Gasher]

I was told all copies of Gwen Owens/wanted ..jumped? true /false

Al Williams on La Beats has a flaw ??true/false

Tsu Tornadoes on Rampart St..please heart dont break .

I had four different copies all play with a swish on every rotation of the deck.

[Quinvy]

Noticed on the recent Anglo American List the statement that all copies of Jean Carter on US Decca have an inherent sound fault - wish I'd known that earlier - always wondered why my mint (unplayed when I got it) demo copy played with a crackle - must have cleaned it dozens of times over trying to clear that crackle - but to no avail (and before anyone asks I've always used a 50/50 cut of isopropyl and distilled water without encountering any vinyl/styrene deterioration).

Got me thinking as to what other 45's have inherent sound faults - I've got a Tony Diamond on Blue Rock which doesnt play properly through each channel. Its fine if you crank up the volume and adjust the balance. Dont know whether that's an inherent fault or abuse by the prior owner !

Additionally, I've heard that some copies of Clara Woods on Imperial have a similar channel distortion fault.

Must be loads of others that you good folk can share which may help avoid a disappointment in the future.

Take care

John

I think you have to be very careful when people tell you that "they all have the same problem" when you are thinking of buying a record from them....

My own personal theory on this, is that in most cases [especially with styrene]that when you get crackling down one channel,is that the record has been played in the 60's with a bad stylus. I can remenber the old Dansettes used to have a revolving stylus with a 45 flag on one side, and 78 flag on the other. The 78 stylus was ***king huge, and all you had to do was forget to turn the stylus over and the 45 was ruined......

To try and prove my point, I have had records that played bad on one side, yet the other was fine. Upon examining these records, you can usually see wear on the side that has the sound fault, and not a sign on the other......

I have even had one that played crap for two thirds of the tune and then suddenly played perfect through to the end. Obviously tried the record, didn't like the tune, so took it off......

Don't get me wrong there are exceptions, but most of these are recording faults. Basically if the record plays with obtrusive noise, and you can see signs of wear, then it's been abused, and I wouldn't touch it......

Somebody mentioned Joey Heatherton & Kenny Carlton. Mine both played perfect, I have never had the Jean Carter so can't comment. But basically I don't believe it when I'm told that " they are all like that mate " unless I have it on good authority.

Phil.

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

...So exactly what constitutes "good authority", then, Phil? I'd've thought that the collective agreement of an internationally respected dealer in Todmorden who's sold a few 'faulty' copies in his time, soul fan of forty-plus years standing in sunny Surbiton, who bought his mint-with-a-fault copy of "Like One" from Soul Bowl 26 years ago (where John Anderson was also quick to remind me, as I ordered it over the phone, that it had "the fault") and one thousands of miles away in Dubai who's also au fait with "the fault" would have been 'good authority' enough myself, but obviously it's not...

TONY :angry:

[sepia]

most records on MO-DO label sound shit.even if they look mint.

liz damon/im falling in love on 1st label sounded like 2 records playing over eachother(prob why white whale put it out).

dosnt tsu tornados/please heart dont break on rampart street all jump or sumit.

[Guest]

dosnt tsu tornados/please heart dont break on rampart street all jump or sumit.

No.

[Guest Darks]

What about Jayboy 1, Doris Willingham "You can't do that". I've got a US copy which slows down for 2 seconds the returns to normal speed. Is this a fault with the master.

I understand that all the UK copies do the same. Or is this an urban myth.

Great record never the less, Doris Duke I believe, and one that's never been hammered to death.

Regards Alan

[Dunc]

Went to Manchester a few years ago and Les Hare had a mint copy of Like One for sale. Had a listen on his ear phones and it played clear. Earphones would pick up any distortion more and it was a demo. Only £100, wish I had bought it now

Dunc

[Pete S]

Mate just came round to look at records, I hada mint Pete warner on Polydor issue at 150, he said would I take 100, I said okay...so we played it and it hissed all the way through. I gave it him for nothing in the end. CURSE YOU, STYRENE.

[Tony Smith]

Agree with Mr. Rounce, most of the problems are in the mastering, Jean Carter has been known for years, the same fault exists on the 70's MCA re-issue, the only "clean" version I've heard is on Ady's acetate that came out of the Carlin haul albeit a slightly different vocal track, most Joey H's slow down down slightly, mines a German Brunswick its a better sound than the US copy but, still with that fault, and for topicality, Carl Carlton "Competition" on Action the bass falls away just as the first verse starts. Chris/Marke Jackson the b-side on the US releases are off centre, UK Soul City is fine?

Edited June 8, 2006 by Tony Smith

[Simon T]

Gwen Owens was pressed twice, I've had both in my hands at the same time and the difference in the width of the grooves is apparent. The first press is the one with the higher volume, but unfortunatley some seem to have a problem with the grooves being too close at about 2/3 the way through, and hence are the ones that tended to skip at that point

[Tony Smith]

Went to Manchester a few years ago and Les Hare had a mint copy of Like One for sale. Had a listen on his ear phones and it played clear. Earphones would pick up any distortion more and it was a demo. Only £100, wish I had bought it now

Dunc

not possible, maybe you're not clear on what the fault is? all copies play clear, but go a bit whooshsie at the break down.

Edited June 8, 2006 by Tony Smith

[Pete S]

All UK copies of Cajun Hart jump one groove in the instrumental break - US copies don't

[Simon T]

I picked up 5 or 6 copies of The Nicky Newarkers - Woman in the US, when I got them home, Idiscovered they skipped in the same place (just before the vocal kicks in).

[Tony Smith]

What about Jayboy 1, Doris Willingham "You can't do that". I've got a US copy which slows down for 2 seconds the returns to normal speed. Is this a fault with the master.

I understand that all the UK copies do the same. Or is this an urban myth.

Great record never the less, Doris Duke I believe, and one that's never been hammered to death.

Regards Alan

The amount of ale you boys got thru last Saturday,I'd think everything sounded like it was slowing down

[Guest]

pat brady told me ages ago that kenny whatsisface lost and found on blue rock all hiss. dunno if he was right, but i didn't buy the copy anyway.

my copy of the snake by al wilson has a nasty hissssssss on it

[Guest ZTSC]

Gwen Owens was pressed twice, I've had both in my hands at the same time and the difference in the width of the grooves is apparent. The first press is the one with the higher volume, but unfortunatley some seem to have a problem with the grooves being too close at about 2/3 the way through, and hence are the ones that tended to skip at that point

The story goes that Larry Lick who owned Velgo in Detroit took hundreds of the faulty copies of Gwen Owens (that should never have reached the shops anyway ) and smashed them in his warehouse to make room for more stock !!

Another true story.

(Anyone who don't like their faulty copies should send them back to me for a full refund (of the original purchase price !!! )

Kev J

[Simon T]

channel drop:

Globliters - The way you do

New Sounds - Sweet memories

Oddities:

7 seconds into Chasmeres - Showstopper, someone coughs!

Arthur Willis - The hurting is over, about 3/4 of the way through you can hear a guitar string snap with a very audiable 'twang'

Trivia:

Gene Pitney - 24 hours from Tulsa, in the original recording, one of the guitar players loses his way and strums the strings rapidly to signal the fact; the producer liked it and incorporated it into the finished take (quite near the end, if you listen)

[Glyn Williams]

can anyone confirm that velvet hammer happy on the multicoloured soozi hisses on every copy - ive had 3 and all the same

[Simon T]

can anyone confirm that velvet hammer happy on the multicoloured soozi hisses on every copy - ive had 3 and all the same

Had about 5 copies (at the same time) and they didn't, so at least one press up was ok.

can anyone confirm that velvet hammer happy on the multicoloured soozi hisses on every copy - ive had 3 and all the same

Had about 5 copies (at the same time) and they didn't, so at least one press up was ok.

[Tony Smith]

can anyone confirm that velvet hammer happy on the multicoloured soozi hisses on every copy - ive had 3 and all the same

I had 4x 25 count boxes of multi-coloured Soozi issues from Barneys in Chicago, none had any hisses, all the copies of Otis Clay "Only Way Is Up" did though none had seen a needle.

[michael-j]

on a vaguely similar topic, a lot of 45s from unsold stock finds seem to have something oily all over them. they feel greasy and are unplayable sound-wise - but after a bath and an introduction to Mr Paintbrush they're fine - it all washes off.

what is this stuff - chemicals coming out of the vinyl, or oil or something from their surroundings where they've been stored?

Edited June 8, 2006 by bongolia

[Tony Smith]

on a vaugely similar topic, a lot of 45s from unsold stock finds seem to have something oily all over them. they feel greasy and are unplayable sound-wise - but after a bath and an introduction to Mr Paintbrush they're fine - it all washes off.

what is this stuff - chemicals coming out of the vinyl, or oil or something from their surroundings where they've been stored?

A fair point, depending on storage vinyl does sweat, this can be cleaned though. I've got numerous 45's from Detroit that were unplayed before I got my hands on them, that have what can be only described as elctrostatic noise on them, eg. "Real Humdinger" again vinyl problems not the mastering.

[Gasher]

[

dosnt tsu tornados/please heart dont break on rampart street all jump or sumit.

[Gasher]

All UK copies of Cajun Hart jump one groove in the instrumental break - US copies don't

WELL PEDRO

I DIDNT KNOW THAT MATE

LEARN SUMFINK NEW EVERY DAY..

ANOTHER USLESS BIT OF TRIVIA THAT I CAN USE ON OCCASIONS TO IMPRESS

MY FELLOW DIMWITTED SOULIES WITH DOWN THE PUB STARTING TOMORROW NIGHT

I picked up 5 or 6 copies of The Nicky Newarkers - Woman in the US, when I got them home, Idiscovered they skipped in the same place (just before the vocal kicks in).

SO DOES THAT MEAN I CAN HAVE ONE OFF YOU ON THE CHEAP THEN??

[Glyn Williams]

when i say hiss - not a constant hiss as such, like an audio hiss - how can i explain - some distortion when audio is high.

[Gasher]

can anyone confirm that velvet hammer happy on the multicoloured soozi hisses on every copy - ive had 3 and all the same

NOPE MY COPY IS FINE

NO HISS HERE

PLAYS AS GOOD AS IT LOOKS

FLOWERY LITTLE JOBBIE SO IT IS

[Guest Dan]

dosnt tsu tornados/please heart dont break on rampart street all jump or sumit.

as ken said, no, but all the copies i've had do hiss

bought the last one from greg tormo a while back because it was said to be mint and...same thing...a brief hiss every revolution (not greg's fault, it looked mint, was mint and he'd never played it, and he gave me my money back).

[Guest]

Got a fairly grubby copy of 'Hot Tamales' on the red Detroit which sounded a little bit rough so i bought a mint copy on the London Detroit re-issue, but apart from the odd pop it dosen't sound any better. Is this another one with a sound fault ?

[Supercorsa]

What about those records that sound great when played out loud when you're pissed, so when you get a copy and play it at home sounds utter crap?

[Steve Plumb]

I'd suggest the B side (I'm a lonely girl) of Dorothy Moore on ABC. ALL issue copies play with terrible sound reproduction (never seen a demo)......the best mid 60's Northern side NEVER played. T'other side (Believe it or not) plays great and is also brill Northern imho.

Cheers

Steve

Anyone with a view on this or at least the story on how the faulty ones were found? I seem to think Rod Shard had summat to do with finding a few of these and they were all the same.

Only ever had two of these and they both came from this same find (i believe?)

C'mon Rod please enlighten us - i'd be keen to know if any clean double sided copies exist or if any white demos exist too?

Cheers

Steve

[Mark W]

Noticed on the recent Anglo American List the statement that all copies of Jean Carter on US Decca have an inherent sound fault - wish I'd known that earlier - always wondered why my mint (unplayed when I got it) demo copy played with a crackle - must have cleaned it dozens of times over trying to clear that crackle - but to no avail (and before anyone asks I've always used a 50/50 cut of isopropyl and distilled water without encountering any vinyl/styrene deterioration).

Got me thinking as to what other 45's have inherent sound faults - I've got a Tony Diamond on Blue Rock which doesnt play properly through each channel. Its fine if you crank up the volume and adjust the balance. Dont know whether that's an inherent fault or abuse by the prior owner !

Additionally, I've heard that some copies of Clara Woods on Imperial have a similar channel distortion fault.

Must be loads of others that you good folk can share which may help avoid a disappointment in the future.

Take care

John

Bit unlucky Jean Carter seems to have been with the pressing plant, her "Love Hangover" on Sunflower would be brilliant if it wasn't off center. Never heard a copy yet that doesn't sound as if the haluconogenics are starting to kick in!!!

[Stateside]

What about Jayboy 1, Doris Willingham "You can't do that". I've got a US copy which slows down for 2 seconds the returns to normal speed. Is this a fault with the master.

I understand that all the UK copies do the same. Or is this an urban myth.

Great record never the less, Doris Duke I believe, and one that's never been hammered to death.

Regards Alan

Yep, my copy on Jayboy slows down near the beginning.

Also had two copies of Ila Vann - You made me this way on PiP and that had very bad hiss and distortion on both copies (Styrene) even the Goldmine cd version sounds s***e

[Quinvy]

...So exactly what constitutes "good authority", then, Phil? I'd've thought that the collective agreement of an internationally respected dealer in Todmorden who's sold a few 'faulty' copies in his time, soul fan of forty-plus years standing in sunny Surbiton, who bought his mint-with-a-fault copy of "Like One" from Soul Bowl 26 years ago (where John Anderson was also quick to remind me, as I ordered it over the phone, that it had "the fault") and one thousands of miles away in Dubai who's also au fait with "the fault" would have been 'good authority' enough myself, but obviously it's not...

TONY :angry:

Hi Tony,

I think you need to read my post properly mate. I said, and I quote "I've never had the Jean Carter so I can't comment"

Phil.

[Epic]

"I'm Waiting" - Bill Bush it has a fault all through the record - seems to stop when you break it in half though.

[Guest Johnny Mack]

Also had two copies of Ila Vann - You made me this way on PiP and that had very bad hiss and distortion on both copies (Styrene) even the Goldmine cd version sounds s***e

___________________________________________________________________________

Noticeable that there have been a few references to styrene 45's having faults - for the most part I'm sure that is down to someone playing them with a bad/damaged stylus at some point in their past life. I have both the Kenny Carlton and Ila Vann 45's and both play just peachy. Someone also mentioned Martha Branch "You" on Solid Soul - totally agree with the distortion problem on that one - spent a lot of elbow grease and cleaning fluid trying to sort that out too !

Few of the D-Town records also seem to be a bit crackly - Jackie & the Tonettes for example.

Take care

John

[Godzilla]

Maimie Lee - I can Feel Him Slipping Away - MGM. They all have a bit where, if you're playing it out, it sounds like you've tocuched the turntable platter for a second. I assume it's down to the master tape sticking for a moment.

The thing that amazes me is - given there are plenty copies abou suggesting it was pressed in bulk - the Quality Control dept of a label as large as MGM let it slip through.

Another case of painted on ears* perhaps.

Godz

* painted on ears - for deorative purposes only

[Modernsoulsucks]

Anyone with a view on this or at least the story on how the faulty ones were found? I seem to think Rod Shard had summat to do with finding a few of these and they were all the same.

Only ever had two of these and they both came from this same find (i believe?)

C'mon Rod please enlighten us - i'd be keen to know if any clean double sided copies exist or if any white demos exist too?

Cheers

Steve

Steve, did find 2or 3 I think in Wax Museum,Charlotte with Alex Jones. Think Al kept a copy. Don't think it was our discovery. Im pretty sure we'd heard about 45.

We did bring them back over here but no idea who got them and no idea of existence of WDJs.

I know we def have had the faulty Newalkers 45 and I'd agree that all Jean Carters I've ever had or heard are distorted. Im not particularly musical so I put it down to being too much bass in the mix but again no idea of real technical reason.

Although I think it was Tony who shot Phil down I would agree with Phil that just because some dealer wants to unload a 45 what he tells you might not be the gospel truth.

"Here, mate wanna buy this Del-Larks for £3,000. Yes it's cracked right through but it was given away free in two halves by the Washington Angling Times in 1966 and they're all like that"

No one's mentioned Salvadores. When that starts it kinda "drops" or slows down or something that is noticeable.

So there you are Steve. You have the benefit of my vast experience and knowledge as a collector and dealer for past 35 years. Rubbish really!!

ROD

[Steve Plumb]

Steve, did find 2or 3 I think in Wax Museum,Charlotte with Alex Jones. Think Al kept a copy. Don't think it was our discovery. Im pretty sure we'd heard about 45.

We did bring them back over here but no idea who got them and no idea of existence of WDJs.

I know we def have had the faulty Newalkers 45 and I'd agree that all Jean Carters I've ever had or heard are distorted. Im not particularly musical so I put it down to being too much bass in the mix but again no idea of real technical reason.

Although I think it was Tony who shot Phil down I would agree with Phil that just because some dealer wants to unload a 45 what he tells you might not be the gospel truth.

"Here, mate wanna buy this Del-Larks for £3,000. Yes it's cracked right through but it was given away free in two halves by the Washington Angling Times in 1966 and they're all like that"

No one's mentioned Salvadores. When that starts it kinda "drops" or slows down or something that is noticeable.

So there you are Steve. You have the benefit of my vast experience and knowledge as a collector and dealer for past 35 years. Rubbish really!!

ROD

Hi Rod

Thanks for the info especially that of the Dorothy Moore - i'll continue with the search for a clean B side (issue or the mythical W/D) but will continue to treasure my issue as the top side 'Believe it or not' is a killer (imho)

btw Love your tongue-in-cheek humour - wish everyone on here was like your good self - the whole scene would be a far nicer and happier place

Cheers

Steve

[Guest TONY ROUNCE]

What about Jayboy 1, Doris Willingham "You can't do that". I've got a US copy which slows down for 2 seconds the returns to normal speed. Is this a fault with the master.

I understand that all the UK copies do the same. Or is this an urban myth.

Great record never the less, Doris Duke I believe, and one that's never been hammered to death.

Regards Alan

Having heard the mastertape in the course of preparing the CD reissue of Kent's "I'm A Loser" CD I can confirm that this is a fault on the original tape. It doesn't actually slow down, though - that noise towards the end of the second line of the song must have somehow accidentally got onto the master when the string section was overdubbed as it's not on the 'underdub' (i.e. the version without strings) that was also on the tape.

It is indeed on all US and UK copies - and the Cd reissue too!

TONY

Edited June 12, 2006 by TONY ROUNCE

[Guest]

there is a drum miss-beat in the Oxford Nights "I'm such a Lonely One" that really annoys me. I love the track, but everytime i hear it, i am waiting for that miss-beat to happen......... , and i swear a phone rings in the background near the beginning of Wade Flemmons "Two of a Kind...................!!???

Carl

[Guest]

my copy of the snake by al wilson has a nasty hissssssss on it

LOL..........