Funky 4 Corners Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Can anyone confirm that the orange Carrie release of `You've Got To Help Me` / `Take It From Me` Clifford Binns # 6501 was recorded and released in 1965? The SK4M 1076 in the run out places it in 1965, pressed at RCA in Indianapolis. The green label C 014 is a re-issue much later. My confusion lies in the fact that Carrie started out in 1961 with a green 1500 series. Was it that there was a gap between the early 60s stuff and the '65 releases as Carrie became La Beat in Jan 1966. The 6500 series could indicate 1965? 2
Guest Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Hi Keith, Well, certainly pressed by RCA during 1965 sometime between July and December from the SK4M code (needs an "I" in the deadwax to confirm Indianapolis), but as to when it was actually recorded/released...have you checked Billboard for any clues? Yep, the 1500 series are early sixties...then there is a jump to the 6500 series, of which 6504 is actually a LaBeat release rather than a Carrie. HTH Flynny
Robbk Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 The Clifford Binns recordings seem to have been made in early 1965. There seems to be a gap in Carrie releases between 1962 and early 1965, with Hendrix's activities from mid 1962 through the end of 1964 dealing with other labels (Cornell Blakely working with Berry Gordy for John Richbourg's Rich Records, Arabians on Staff Records, Big Red and The Comancheros on Arnold, and recordings by The Arabians, Edward Hamilton, Gearline Duckett, The Jackson Singers, Mack Arnold and The Blenders) that weren't released until later, on Carrie (South Carolina or Tennessee address), or Lanrod Records or on LaBeat, Mary Jane or Cool School Records. 2
Robbk Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Regarding those who think that Clifford Binns may have just been Edward Hamilton under a pseudonym, - Ihave seen photographs of Clifford Binns and Edward Hamilton, and they are clearly two different people. James Hendrix mentioned both of them in at least one interview. 3
Chalky Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) You Got To Help me was recorded at United Sounds. Think Franc has the/an acetate. Here is a scan that was on Soulful Detroit..... Edited August 9, 2013 by chalky
Cobbles Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 You Got To Help me was recorded at United Sounds. Think Franc has the/an acetate. Here is a scan that was on Soulful Detroit.....image.jpg chalky, think there's 2 or 3 of the united sounds acetate.... as I remember one being sold way after I had mine.....mine came from Duncan Morris via Dave Raistrick I believe... ... didn't someone on here have a labeat acetate of it too??
Rich B Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 You Got To Help me was recorded at United Sounds. Think Franc has the/an acetate. Here is a scan that was on Soulful Detroit.....image.jpg And I was happy with an Orange copy!
Robbk Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 They look very much alike, Chalky. I've seen other photos where they are clearly discernable as two different people.
Robbk Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) chalky, think there's 2 or 3 of the united sounds acetate.... as I remember one being sold way after I had mine.....mine came from Duncan Morris via Dave Raistrick I believe... ... didn't someone on here have a labeat acetate of it too?? Too bad they don't have dates on them. Edited August 9, 2013 by RobbK
Cobbles Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 i'll go check over weekend the run out of what my acetate has compared to the orange vinyl copy I have franc
Premium Stuff Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 Edward Hamilton....image.jpg Clifford Binns.....image.jpg If you think those two pics show they are definitely two different people what do you make of these pictures of Darrell Banks Looks like 3 different blokes to me Richard 1
Cobbles Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 And I was happy with an Orange copy! dunna worry...pretty sure my acetate is same mix as vinyl copy.... now a diff mix would be interesting !!!!
Robbk Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 (edited) Can anyone confirm that the orange Carrie release of `You've Got To Help Me` / `Take It From Me` Clifford Binns # 6501 was recorded and released in 1965? The SK4M 1076 in the run out places it in 1965, pressed at RCA in Indianapolis. The green label C 014 is a re-issue much later. My confusion lies in the fact that Carrie started out in 1961 with a green 1500 series. Was it that there was a gap between the early 60s stuff and the '65 releases as Carrie became La Beat in Jan 1966. The 6500 series could indicate 1965? Carrie Records started before 1961. After releasing two Cornell Blakely 45s on Charles Fulton's Fulton Records in 1958 and 1959, Hendrix started his own Carrie Records. Carrie 211(yellow-green), "Cindy"/"Listen To My Heart" by Cornelius Grant and The Blenders was released in late 1959 or early 1960. There was also an early Gospel release by The Corder Family (382)(1960?), before Cornell Blakely's 1503 in 1961. Edited August 9, 2013 by RobbK 1
Chalky Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 They look very much alike, Chalky. I thought the same too. I will have a look if I've a decent Edward Hamilton photo tomorrow, these were a quick google.
Soulhawk1960 Posted August 9, 2013 Posted August 9, 2013 I've seen other photos where they are clearly discernable as two different people. You want to see the photo's of me when I was a bit younger
Chalky Posted August 10, 2013 Posted August 10, 2013 Here's a better picture courtesy of Dave Welding. Read the La Beat CD, there is a bit about Edward's life in the sleeve notes.
Cobbles Posted August 11, 2013 Posted August 11, 2013 just checked acetate and there is no info in run out
Funky 4 Corners Posted August 12, 2013 Author Posted August 12, 2013 HI guys, I've been away for a couple of days and was delighted to see all of this info on my return, thanks a lot.
Garethx Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 (edited) Great group ballad on the b-side of this. Edited August 12, 2013 by garethx
Pete S Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Edward Hamilton....image.jpg Clifford Binns.....image.jpg Looks very similar to me. Same haircut, same nose
Robbk Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Looks very similar to me. Same haircut, same nose That is an extremely common nose shape among Africans from The Guinea Coast and The Ivory Coast (where more than 90% of the slaves destined for North America originated). Furthermore, that hair-do, with the high pompadour was what just about every Black man in USA wore in 1965. They look like two different people to me, looking at the eyes, cheekbones, mouth and other features. I've also seen another photo of Hamilton and another of Binns, which look more different than these two. 3
Premium Stuff Posted August 12, 2013 Posted August 12, 2013 Which one is Clifford Hamilton and which is Edward Binns then?
Mal C Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 (edited) old thread, but on the subject of Clifford Binns, I always loved that Carrie lp that came out in the 8ts, had a unreleased version of 'I'm Human Too', which I love. I can see from Dave Rimmer;'s site that it actually did come out on a 45, and I have an MP3 file which is allot slower, would I be right in thinking thats the released cut? it doesn't sound like its been sped up by the way in case somebody suggests that.. scans actually of the other side of the LP, but you get the gist.. actually I think this lp has 'today I kissed my new love' on it as well, fabulous swayer.. Mal:_) Edited October 3, 2014 by Mal C
Robbk Posted October 3, 2014 Posted October 3, 2014 From all those photos, Darryl Banks looks more like Clifford Binns than does Hamilton. So, do we have a theory that all 3 were the same man?
Louise Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) Both Clifford Binns "You Got To Help Me/Take It From Me" Carrie (6501) and Edward Hamilton's "I'm Gonna Love You/Call Me" were both recorded at United Sound as the fledgling Labeat Studios were a very basic affair at that time. Melvin Davis used to pick up both Binns, Hamilton and the Arabians and take them to the Labat studio to rehearse in the evenings only. Davis was moonlighting at Labeat, as he was signed as a producer to D-Town at the time. As were Motown musicians Cornelius Grant (Lead Guitar)and Drummer Pistol Allen. The other musicians on the sessions being George White (Trombone), Tony Newton (Bass Guitar) , Melvin filled in as both pianist and arranger.Clifford Binns is remembered as a very polite, softly spoken man who needed very little rehersal. Therefore Binns and Hamilton are both seperate people. With Binns also recording the James Hendrix penned "It Was Only Yesterday/Again It's Christmas" on Ronnie Moore's Theoda label, a record I bought blind for a couple of quid out of Soulbowl's Detroit Catalogue but quickly sold as it was way too early for me and not a patch on his Carrie release.Both Al Williams "I Am Nothing" and James Shorter's "Modern Day Woman" were pressed at RCA the probable reason for these being the only two Labeat releases to appear on white demo's.Hendrix's initial version of Carrie records was financed by the owner of a local haberdashery store( who's name without checking currently escapes me) on the same street as were he lived. The owner was persuaded to back Hendrix by a young local promtion guy by the name of Clyde Brooks. Hendricks later showed his gratitude by recording "Soul Set" on Clyde (Carrie 008). Clyde later moved on to bigger and better things in New York.All this information was relayed to me by the following leading protagonists from back in the day,Melvin Davis, Edward Hamilton, Cornelius Grant and Clyde Brooks.I do wish some of these so called researchers would dig a bit deeper rather than just goole it !All this with out my first cup of coffee of the day bah!Dave Edited October 4, 2014 by Louise 3
Chalky Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 Just as an aside, what is the LP worth these days?
Ted Massey Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 I bought the Clifford bins release that was Supose to have Im human to on it but it turned out it didn't so I think that listing is incorrect unless some one knows different
Mal C Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) The LP, I asked about some months ago, somebody on here quoted £70 something like that, I saw Gene R sold his a year or so back for £30, so thats what I offered, and shortly after was offered one at that price... so £30... I'll check the two Mp3's I have see if they are indeed different versions, I'd love to get this 45, but it seems it may only exist on a label, not n the grooves....have I got that right Ted? Edited October 4, 2014 by Mal C
Ted Massey Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 The LP, I asked about some months ago, somebody on here quoted £70 something like that, I saw Gene R sold his a year or so back for £30, so thats what I offered, and shortly after was offered one at that price... so £30... I'll check the two Mp3's I have see if they are indeed different versions, I'd love to get this 45, but it seems it may only exist on a label, not n the grooves....have I got that right Ted? I think its that album only Mal
Mal C Posted October 4, 2014 Posted October 4, 2014 (edited) these two Mp3's of 'Human too' are the same song, just at different speeds... got that wrong Edited October 4, 2014 by Mal C
Nick Soule Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 Just to add a little bit of information here, Lou Beatty was a part owner of Carrie for a brief time. He's listed as President of Carrie Records in a very brief article in Record World Magazine from 1965 that details the licensing of Edward Hamilton's "Call Me" and "I'm Gonna Love You" to Jameco Records in NY. The catalog numbers for this period also follow suit with the La Beat catalog numbering system (year/release). Carrie 6501 - Clifford Binns Carrie 6502 - Edward Hamilton Carrie 6503 - Lawrence Hill And Singers La Beat 6504 - Spider, Snake & Ell/Eee
The Yank Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 (edited) Here's the rest of the article which mentions Clifford's next release on Blackhawk . Has anyone ever seen the Blackhawk 45 ? Edited December 29, 2020 by The Yank
Robbk Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 Can anybody post a file of Clifford's "Again it's Christmas"? I've never heard it, and it doesn't seem to be on The Internet.
Nick Soule Posted December 28, 2020 Posted December 28, 2020 39 minutes ago, Robbk said: Can anybody post a file of Clifford's "Again it's Christmas"? I've never heard it, and it doesn't seem to be on The Internet. Warning: it's not good. Clifford Binns - Again It's Christmas.mp3
Robbk Posted December 29, 2020 Posted December 29, 2020 5 minutes ago, Nick Soule said: Warning: it's not good. Clifford Binns - Again It's Christmas.mp3 3.98 MB · 0 downloads Thanks!
Robbk Posted December 29, 2020 Posted December 29, 2020 7 minutes ago, Nick Soule said: Warning: it's not good. Clifford Binns - Again It's Christmas.mp3 3.98 MB · 1 download Quite an understatement, that! Oyyyy! Vey ist Mir!!!! Some influence from The Good Reverend James Hendrix, and some from the writer of "Randy The Newspaper Boy" !!!
Blackpoolsoul Posted December 29, 2020 Posted December 29, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, The Yank said: Here's the rest of the article which mentions Clifford's next release on Blackhawk . Has anyone ever seen the Blackhawk 45 ? It never came out on Blackhawk. Lou waited until Carrie later that year Edited December 29, 2020 by Blackpoolsoul
The Yank Posted December 29, 2020 Posted December 29, 2020 5 hours ago, Blackpoolsoul said: It never came out on Blackhawk. Lou waited until Carrie later that year That could explain the missing release # between "Shotgun Wedding" Blackhawk #12101 and "Dance Girl" - Blackhawk #12103. 1
Tricky Posted December 30, 2020 Posted December 30, 2020 What about the Canadian release? Never seen or heard of that before.
Recommended Posts
Get involved with Soul Source
Add your comments now
Join Soul Source
A free & easy soul music affair!
Join Soul Source now!Log in to Soul Source
Jump right back in!
Log in now!