usually non originals are identifiable by a series of label ,matrix ,pressing flaws..which are the hardest to decipher? and are ANY..foolproof...

I don't know enough to give an authoritative answer to this.....but I remember my head hurting as I tried to follow when someone was discussing the dodgy Salvadors and the discussion went something like  ' not so much bluey green, more of a greeny blue !  Or was it vice versa.

 

Anyway, good question, look forward to it getting some useful [ and on thread ] answers, unlike mine.

Edited June 25, 201311 yr by ricticman

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:12, SHEFFSOUL said:

usually non originals are identifiable by a series of label ,matrix ,pressing flaws..which are the hardest to decipher? and are ANY..foolproof...

JM reckoned Gary Haines "Keep on going", saying that only the lack of a matrix stamp on the boot gave it away...

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:27, Jerry Hipkiss said:

JM reckoned Gary Haines "Keep on going", saying that only the lack of a matrix stamp on the boot gave it away...

 

i think there are a few like that..Detroit landapples for one..

Joe Douglas ' Crazy Things - took me years to be convinced there was a bootleg.  Coasters Crazy Baby always a hard one. Johnny Sayles My Loves A Monster, identical except matrix is upside down on the run out, Three Degrees Contact very convincing.  

In the 80s I bought a copy of Alexander Patton 'A Little Loving Sometimes' which looked perfect. Then I read Manship's guide which said it was pressed on Capitol blank 45s, so it was therefore pretty much undetectable as a boot   . However, I THEN read it was actually an East Coast pressing and wasn't a boot after all...

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:35, ElGeePee said:

In the 80s I bought a copy of Alexander Patton 'A Little Loving Sometimes' which looked perfect. Then I read Manship's guide which said it was pressed on Capitol blank 45s, so it was therefore pretty much undetectable as a boot   . However, I THEN read it was actually an East Coast pressing and wasn't a boot after all...

 

But there definitely is a counterfeit of that and Jerry Cook though

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:33, Pete S said:

Joe Douglas ' Crazy Things - took me years to be convinced there was a bootleg.  Coasters Crazy Baby always a hard one. Johnny Sayles My Loves A Monster, identical except matrix is upside down on the run out, Three Degrees Contact very convincing.  

Never found Coasters boot too hard to spot Pete, one (normally excellent) dealer I've used for years had one in his sales box t'other week, but when I pointed it out, even to the delta number, he wouldn't accept it wasn't the original!

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:33, Pete S said:

Joe Douglas ' Crazy Things - took me years to be convinced there was a bootleg.  Coasters Crazy Baby always a hard one. Johnny Sayles My Loves A Monster, identical except matrix is upside down on the run out, Three Degrees Contact very convincing.  

 

..never knew joe Douglas had been booted..shit..just checked mine..its a BOOT!..and ive had it approx 25 years..could have sold it many times over..so most thought it was original...

Edited June 25, 201311 yr by SHEFFSOUL

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:27, Jerry Hipkiss said:

JM reckoned Gary Haines "Keep on going", saying that only the lack of a matrix stamp on the boot gave it away...

 

That should make it dead easy to spot then Jerry.

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:59, jordirip said:

That should make it dead easy to spot then Jerry.

At 3am in a darkened room with a befuddled head? :-)

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:53, SHEFFSOUL said:

..never knew joe Douglas had been booted..

 

Nor did I.  How long ago, roughly?

  On 25/06/2013 at 09:02, Jerry Hipkiss said:

At 3am in a darkened room with a befuddled head? :-)

 

Ah...true enough, but the first thing you would look for would be a stamp, so you'd just tilt a bald fellas head (plenty of 'em in a soul do) towards a light source and let the resulting reflected light reveal the stamp.

  On 25/06/2013 at 09:09, Gene-R said:

Nor did I.  How long ago, roughly?

 

well as i added to earlier post..must be about 25 years..

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:53, SHEFFSOUL said:

..never knew joe Douglas had been booted..shit..just checked mine..its a BOOT!..and ive had it approx 25 years..could have sold it many times over..so most thought it was original...

 

What's the difference between them?

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:46, Jerry Hipkiss said:

Never found Coasters boot too hard to spot Pete, one (normally excellent) dealer I've used for years had one in his sales box t'other week, but when I pointed it out, even to the delta number, he wouldn't accept it wasn't the original!

 

Have to disagree Jerry, not the styrene one, the vinyl one, it's a bastard and it doesn't have a delta number

  On 25/06/2013 at 09:09, Gene-R said:

Nor did I.  How long ago, roughly?

 

About 8 or so years ago Paul Rudzitis either had, or said, there was a belgian counterfeit, I said no there wasn't and we actually had a real fall out argument over it, I said as far as I know it was just a second variation of the original with layout slightly different.  Can't remember how I found out but it turns out that there was a Belgian counterfeit.  I publicly apologised to Rudzy on the forum, I'm sure the topic is still out there and may have the label scans.

Here's the second Joe Douglas topic, this isn't the one I refer to above

  On 25/06/2013 at 09:19, philb said:

What's the difference between them?

 

boot has a narrower deadwax, virtue matrix correct way round, and a small oval over the top of the E in En caldwell..

 

I think the poster "guest" is John M.

I bet there's a lot of people checking Joe Douglas 45's at this moment in time

  On 25/06/2013 at 09:37, Pete S said:

 

I think the poster "guest" is John M.

I bet there's a lot of people checking Joe Douglas 45's at this moment in time

 

and a lot of lemon lips..mine included

  On 25/06/2013 at 09:31, Pete S said:

Have to disagree Jerry, not the styrene one, the vinyl one, it's a bastard and it doesn't have a delta number

OK, sorry mate, I forgot about that!

  On 25/06/2013 at 09:37, SHEFFSOUL said:

boot has a narrower deadwax, virtue matrix correct way round, and a small oval over the top of the E in En caldwell..

Thanks will defo check when i buy one.

Not really a subject I have had much to do with but always believed that the Candi Staton - upper hand ,was said to be a very good boot ?

as an overview..i guess the Manship PG5 gives lots of examples if you can manage to trawl through the exhaustive listings..but i thought the question was worth posting as many have never seen an original to compare ( Joe Douglas being a case in point) and BITD i remember the Capitol boots as tricky..so i hope people will keep posting as they have knowledge not always generally known .Oh btw another mystery is the boot of the Soul patrol 'save your love'. I recently posted about this as i'd bought a copy and was unsure to it being genuine. Neil Rushton , who had commissioned the boots mid 70,s said mine was orig..but opinion was still divided..and again the boot is prob rarer than its sibling...

  On 25/06/2013 at 09:54, NEV said:

Not really a subject I have had much to do with but always believed that the Candi Staton - upper hand ,was said to be a very good boot ?

 

It is very good, but it has a more pronounced dip towards the centre and the real giveaway, the boot has a huge run out groove whereas the original is normal size.

I remember buying 3 copies of this from a shop in the States rubbing my hands at the thought of having not one but three originals, wouldn't you know it, they were the boot!  And that was from the States, ten years or more back.

  On 25/06/2013 at 10:08, SHEFFSOUL said:

as an overview..i guess the Manship PG5 gives lots of examples if you can manage to trawl through the exhaustive listings..but i thought the question was worth posting as many have never seen an original to compare ( Joe Douglas being a case in point) and BITD i remember the Capitol boots as tricky..so i hope people will keep posting as they have knowledge not always generally known .Oh btw another mystery is the boot of the Soul patrol 'save your love'. I recently posted about this as i'd bought a copy and was unsure to it being genuine. Neil Rushton , who had commissioned the boots mid 70,s said mine was orig..but opinion was still divided..and again the boot is prob rarer than its sibling...

 

I have one of those at the moment and can't sell it at £50!  (original I mean - at least I think so)

  On 25/06/2013 at 10:20, Pete S said:

It is very good, but it has a more pronounced dip towards the centre and the real giveaway, the boot has a huge run out groove whereas the original is normal size.

I remember buying 3 copies of this from a shop in the States rubbing my hands at the thought of having not one but three originals, wouldn't you know it, they were the boot!  And that was from the States, ten years or more back.

:hatsoff2:HI ALL  IT'S ONLY A SELECT FEW COLLECTORS WHO HAVE HAD THIS RECORD AS A ORIGANAL, ONE OF THE RAREST  TO OWN, 

THE BOOT COPY IS JUSTIFIED TO HAVE IN THE COLECTION, ESPECIALY IF YOU LIKE PETE & MYSELF HAD THE ORIGANAL, I DONT THINK I WILL EVER FIND ANOUTHER REAL COPY, IN A JUNK SHOP, LIKE THE WAY I GOT MY COPY? IF YOU FOLLOW MY LOGIC, SOLD IT FOR £450 TO MICK  DAVE K

Stop Girl - 7 Dwarfs has caused a little consternation in the past.

Anderson Brothers I can see him loving you -GSF -

I brought this years ago from a dealer wont name them it was a long time ago I always thought it was fine but have since been told its a very good copy

I cant remember details of how to tell original copy but think its to do with the run out lines ? I am sure that many people have been caught out once or twice if you've been collecting many years - now if I am not sure I don't buy them simple and hope the ones I buy are ok 

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:44, Simsy said:

 

 

whats the story with this then Ian, I have my copy here now and it looks identical 

  On 25/06/2013 at 10:52, soulie.com said:

Anderson Brothers I can see him loving you -GSF -

I brought this years ago from a dealer wont name them it was a long time ago I always thought it was fine but have since been told its a very good copy

I cant remember details of how to tell original copy but think its to do with the run out lines ? I am sure that many people have been caught out once or twice if you've been collecting many years - now if I am not sure I don't buy them simple and hope the ones I buy are ok 

 

Theres a topic just about this one record elsewhere mate, we reckon there are three separate boots of this one

  On 25/06/2013 at 11:09, Andy Kempster said:

whats the story with this then Ian, I have my copy here now and it looks identical 

 

This was supposed to be one of the harder reissues to spot. I'm not even certain whether the posted pic is an orig or boot - I suspect the former.

fingers crossed for the former then Ian

 

got JM's 5th edition and looking at the pics they are almost identical other than the boot has a feint pinkish hue to the white paper label, mine is clean white so I am erring on the side of original

 

Edited June 25, 201311 yr by Andy Kempster

  On 25/06/2013 at 11:15, Simsy said:

This was supposed to be one of the harder reissues to spot. I'm not even certain whether the posted pic is an orig or boot - I suspect the former.

 

The counterfeit is more of a cream colour, the original is dull white, that copy in the scan is too poor to be able to tell

Edited June 25, 201311 yr by Pete S

  On 25/06/2013 at 10:21, Pete S said:

I have one of those at the moment and can't sell it at £50!  (original I mean - at least I think so)

 

if its joe douglas you're talking about , i'll have it off you pete

  On 25/06/2013 at 11:13, Pete S said:

Theres a topic just about this one record elsewhere mate, we reckon there are three separate boots of this one

Pete -Thanks may try and find it to have a look -

Chris

Skullsnaps LP is tough to tell I think. Something to do with the run out groove , how many grooves and where the number is in said run out grooves.??

  On 25/06/2013 at 11:35, trev thomas said:

if its joe douglas you're talking about , i'll have it off you pete

 

No it was Soul Patrol I meant!

  On 25/06/2013 at 11:42, Steve Foran said:

Skullsnaps LP is tough to tell I think. Something to do with the run out groove , how many grooves and where the number is in said run out grooves.??

 

Colour of the inside of the cover as well?  Theres a webpage set up to spot the differences on that LP

  On 25/06/2013 at 11:39, soulie.com said:

Pete -Thanks may try and find it to have a look -

Chris

 

Here you go Chris

Delrays Inc..........

What about Epitome of Sound white demos?  I had one which I thought was an original, only to be told that it was actually a boot.  May have been you who helped me out with the advice some years ago, Pete?  

  On 25/06/2013 at 12:30, Eddie Hubbard said:

Delrays Inc..........

 

yes another tricky one..i bought my first off Soul Bowl mid 70's..convinced it was real....BOOT!...orig is a pale olive as opposed to a more deeper, forest green..

  On 25/06/2013 at 12:36, Gene-R said:

What about Epitome of Sound white demos?  I had one which I thought was an original, only to be told that it was actually a boot.  May have been you who helped me out with the advice some years ago, Pete?  

 

Yeah that is a killer, scans of ones sold on ebay show about half to be real and half to be fake!  I had one last year and it looked so good.

The recent King Tutt supposed Italian boots are pretty good.

Also the original poster asks if any are foolproof. If they were we wouldn't know about them

  On 25/06/2013 at 12:39, SHEFFSOUL said:

yes another tricky one..i bought my first off Soul Bowl mid 70's..convinced it was real....BOOT!...orig is a pale olive as opposed to a more deeper, forest green..

 

Delrays is easy to tell compared to the real one unless of course you don't know the difference but that is the same for any boot, they are all good if you are non the wiser.

Surprised no ones mentioned the Yum Yums on ABC

  On 25/06/2013 at 08:23, ricticman said:

I don't know enough to give an authoritative answer to this.....but I remember my head hurting as I tried to follow when someone was discussing the dodgy Salvadors and the discussion went something like  ' not so much bluey green, more of a greeny blue !  Or was it vice versa.

 

Anyway, good question, look forward to it getting some useful [ and on thread ] answers, unlike mine.

 

 

Dont start this one again Pete, my head still hurts from last time, by the way yours is a boot so I'll be over with the 20quid tomoz

 

Darren

  On 25/06/2013 at 11:09, Andy Kempster said:

whats the story with this then Ian, I have my copy here now and it looks identical 

Hi Andy

 

I spoke to Max Millward (Blue Max) about the origins of this counterfeit he told me Simon Soussan had them done as close has he could to the original Demo's as possible including the H stamp in the dead wax 

 

atb Kev