SHEFFSOUL Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 usually non originals are identifiable by a series of label ,matrix ,pressing flaws..which are the hardest to decipher? and are ANY..foolproof... 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
ricticman Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) I don't know enough to give an authoritative answer to this.....but I remember my head hurting as I tried to follow when someone was discussing the dodgy Salvadors and the discussion went something like ' not so much bluey green, more of a greeny blue ! Or was it vice versa. Anyway, good question, look forward to it getting some useful [ and on thread ] answers, unlike mine. Edited June 25, 2013 by ricticman Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jerry Hipkiss Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 usually non originals are identifiable by a series of label ,matrix ,pressing flaws..which are the hardest to decipher? and are ANY..foolproof... JM reckoned Gary Haines "Keep on going", saying that only the lack of a matrix stamp on the boot gave it away... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
SHEFFSOUL Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 JM reckoned Gary Haines "Keep on going", saying that only the lack of a matrix stamp on the boot gave it away... i think there are a few like that..Detroit landapples for one.. 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Joe Douglas ' Crazy Things - took me years to be convinced there was a bootleg. Coasters Crazy Baby always a hard one. Johnny Sayles My Loves A Monster, identical except matrix is upside down on the run out, Three Degrees Contact very convincing. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Liamgp Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 In the 80s I bought a copy of Alexander Patton 'A Little Loving Sometimes' which looked perfect. Then I read Manship's guide which said it was pressed on Capitol blank 45s, so it was therefore pretty much undetectable as a boot . However, I THEN read it was actually an East Coast pressing and wasn't a boot after all... 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 In the 80s I bought a copy of Alexander Patton 'A Little Loving Sometimes' which looked perfect. Then I read Manship's guide which said it was pressed on Capitol blank 45s, so it was therefore pretty much undetectable as a boot . However, I THEN read it was actually an East Coast pressing and wasn't a boot after all... But there definitely is a counterfeit of that and Jerry Cook though Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jerry Hipkiss Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Joe Douglas ' Crazy Things - took me years to be convinced there was a bootleg. Coasters Crazy Baby always a hard one. Johnny Sayles My Loves A Monster, identical except matrix is upside down on the run out, Three Degrees Contact very convincing. Never found Coasters boot too hard to spot Pete, one (normally excellent) dealer I've used for years had one in his sales box t'other week, but when I pointed it out, even to the delta number, he wouldn't accept it wasn't the original! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
SHEFFSOUL Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) Joe Douglas ' Crazy Things - took me years to be convinced there was a bootleg. Coasters Crazy Baby always a hard one. Johnny Sayles My Loves A Monster, identical except matrix is upside down on the run out, Three Degrees Contact very convincing. ..never knew joe Douglas had been booted..shit..just checked mine..its a BOOT!..and ive had it approx 25 years..could have sold it many times over..so most thought it was original... Edited June 25, 2013 by SHEFFSOUL 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jordirip Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 JM reckoned Gary Haines "Keep on going", saying that only the lack of a matrix stamp on the boot gave it away... That should make it dead easy to spot then Jerry. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jerry Hipkiss Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 That should make it dead easy to spot then Jerry. At 3am in a darkened room with a befuddled head? :-) Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gene-r Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 ..never knew joe Douglas had been booted.. Nor did I. How long ago, roughly? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jordirip Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 At 3am in a darkened room with a befuddled head? :-) Ah...true enough, but the first thing you would look for would be a stamp, so you'd just tilt a bald fellas head (plenty of 'em in a soul do) towards a light source and let the resulting reflected light reveal the stamp. 3 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
SHEFFSOUL Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Nor did I. How long ago, roughly? well as i added to earlier post..must be about 25 years.. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Philb Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 ..never knew joe Douglas had been booted..shit..just checked mine..its a BOOT!..and ive had it approx 25 years..could have sold it many times over..so most thought it was original... What's the difference between them? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Never found Coasters boot too hard to spot Pete, one (normally excellent) dealer I've used for years had one in his sales box t'other week, but when I pointed it out, even to the delta number, he wouldn't accept it wasn't the original! Have to disagree Jerry, not the styrene one, the vinyl one, it's a bastard and it doesn't have a delta number Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Nor did I. How long ago, roughly? About 8 or so years ago Paul Rudzitis either had, or said, there was a belgian counterfeit, I said no there wasn't and we actually had a real fall out argument over it, I said as far as I know it was just a second variation of the original with layout slightly different. Can't remember how I found out but it turns out that there was a Belgian counterfeit. I publicly apologised to Rudzy on the forum, I'm sure the topic is still out there and may have the label scans. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Here's the second Joe Douglas topic, this isn't the one I refer to above Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
SHEFFSOUL Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 What's the difference between them? boot has a narrower deadwax, virtue matrix correct way round, and a small oval over the top of the E in En caldwell.. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think the poster "guest" is John M. I bet there's a lot of people checking Joe Douglas 45's at this moment in time Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
SHEFFSOUL Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 I think the poster "guest" is John M. I bet there's a lot of people checking Joe Douglas 45's at this moment in time and a lot of lemon lips..mine included 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Jerry Hipkiss Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Have to disagree Jerry, not the styrene one, the vinyl one, it's a bastard and it doesn't have a delta number OK, sorry mate, I forgot about that! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Philb Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 boot has a narrower deadwax, virtue matrix correct way round, and a small oval over the top of the E in En caldwell.. Thanks will defo check when i buy one. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
NEV Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Not really a subject I have had much to do with but always believed that the Candi Staton - upper hand ,was said to be a very good boot ? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
SHEFFSOUL Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 as an overview..i guess the Manship PG5 gives lots of examples if you can manage to trawl through the exhaustive listings..but i thought the question was worth posting as many have never seen an original to compare ( Joe Douglas being a case in point) and BITD i remember the Capitol boots as tricky..so i hope people will keep posting as they have knowledge not always generally known .Oh btw another mystery is the boot of the Soul patrol 'save your love'. I recently posted about this as i'd bought a copy and was unsure to it being genuine. Neil Rushton , who had commissioned the boots mid 70,s said mine was orig..but opinion was still divided..and again the boot is prob rarer than its sibling... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Not really a subject I have had much to do with but always believed that the Candi Staton - upper hand ,was said to be a very good boot ? It is very good, but it has a more pronounced dip towards the centre and the real giveaway, the boot has a huge run out groove whereas the original is normal size. I remember buying 3 copies of this from a shop in the States rubbing my hands at the thought of having not one but three originals, wouldn't you know it, they were the boot! And that was from the States, ten years or more back. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 as an overview..i guess the Manship PG5 gives lots of examples if you can manage to trawl through the exhaustive listings..but i thought the question was worth posting as many have never seen an original to compare ( Joe Douglas being a case in point) and BITD i remember the Capitol boots as tricky..so i hope people will keep posting as they have knowledge not always generally known .Oh btw another mystery is the boot of the Soul patrol 'save your love'. I recently posted about this as i'd bought a copy and was unsure to it being genuine. Neil Rushton , who had commissioned the boots mid 70,s said mine was orig..but opinion was still divided..and again the boot is prob rarer than its sibling... I have one of those at the moment and can't sell it at £50! (original I mean - at least I think so) 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
dthedrug Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 It is very good, but it has a more pronounced dip towards the centre and the real giveaway, the boot has a huge run out groove whereas the original is normal size. I remember buying 3 copies of this from a shop in the States rubbing my hands at the thought of having not one but three originals, wouldn't you know it, they were the boot! And that was from the States, ten years or more back. :hatsoff2:HI ALL IT'S ONLY A SELECT FEW COLLECTORS WHO HAVE HAD THIS RECORD AS A ORIGANAL, ONE OF THE RAREST TO OWN, THE BOOT COPY IS JUSTIFIED TO HAVE IN THE COLECTION, ESPECIALY IF YOU LIKE PETE & MYSELF HAD THE ORIGANAL, I DONT THINK I WILL EVER FIND ANOUTHER REAL COPY, IN A JUNK SHOP, LIKE THE WAY I GOT MY COPY? IF YOU FOLLOW MY LOGIC, SOLD IT FOR £450 TO MICK DAVE K Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Tezza Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Stop Girl - 7 Dwarfs has caused a little consternation in the past. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Anderson Brothers I can see him loving you -GSF - I brought this years ago from a dealer wont name them it was a long time ago I always thought it was fine but have since been told its a very good copy I cant remember details of how to tell original copy but think its to do with the run out lines ? I am sure that many people have been caught out once or twice if you've been collecting many years - now if I am not sure I don't buy them simple and hope the ones I buy are ok Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Andy Kempster Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 whats the story with this then Ian, I have my copy here now and it looks identical Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Anderson Brothers I can see him loving you -GSF - I brought this years ago from a dealer wont name them it was a long time ago I always thought it was fine but have since been told its a very good copy I cant remember details of how to tell original copy but think its to do with the run out lines ? I am sure that many people have been caught out once or twice if you've been collecting many years - now if I am not sure I don't buy them simple and hope the ones I buy are ok Theres a topic just about this one record elsewhere mate, we reckon there are three separate boots of this one Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Simsy Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 whats the story with this then Ian, I have my copy here now and it looks identical This was supposed to be one of the harder reissues to spot. I'm not even certain whether the posted pic is an orig or boot - I suspect the former. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Andy Kempster Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) fingers crossed for the former then Ian got JM's 5th edition and looking at the pics they are almost identical other than the boot has a feint pinkish hue to the white paper label, mine is clean white so I am erring on the side of original Edited June 25, 2013 by Andy Kempster Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 (edited) This was supposed to be one of the harder reissues to spot. I'm not even certain whether the posted pic is an orig or boot - I suspect the former. The counterfeit is more of a cream colour, the original is dull white, that copy in the scan is too poor to be able to tell Edited June 25, 2013 by Pete S 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Trev Thomas Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I have one of those at the moment and can't sell it at £50! (original I mean - at least I think so) if its joe douglas you're talking about , i'll have it off you pete Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Theres a topic just about this one record elsewhere mate, we reckon there are three separate boots of this one Pete -Thanks may try and find it to have a look - Chris Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Steve Foran Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Skullsnaps LP is tough to tell I think. Something to do with the run out groove , how many grooves and where the number is in said run out grooves.?? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 if its joe douglas you're talking about , i'll have it off you pete No it was Soul Patrol I meant! Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Skullsnaps LP is tough to tell I think. Something to do with the run out groove , how many grooves and where the number is in said run out grooves.?? Colour of the inside of the cover as well? Theres a webpage set up to spot the differences on that LP Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Pete -Thanks may try and find it to have a look - Chris Here you go Chris Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Eddie Hubbard Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Delrays Inc.......... Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Gene-r Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 What about Epitome of Sound white demos? I had one which I thought was an original, only to be told that it was actually a boot. May have been you who helped me out with the advice some years ago, Pete? Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
SHEFFSOUL Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Delrays Inc.......... yes another tricky one..i bought my first off Soul Bowl mid 70's..convinced it was real....BOOT!...orig is a pale olive as opposed to a more deeper, forest green.. 2 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Pete S Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 What about Epitome of Sound white demos? I had one which I thought was an original, only to be told that it was actually a boot. May have been you who helped me out with the advice some years ago, Pete? Yeah that is a killer, scans of ones sold on ebay show about half to be real and half to be fake! I had one last year and it looked so good. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Cunnie Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 The recent King Tutt supposed Italian boots are pretty good. Also the original poster asks if any are foolproof. If they were we wouldn't know about them 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Chalky Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 yes another tricky one..i bought my first off Soul Bowl mid 70's..convinced it was real....BOOT!...orig is a pale olive as opposed to a more deeper, forest green.. Delrays is easy to tell compared to the real one unless of course you don't know the difference but that is the same for any boot, they are all good if you are non the wiser. Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
pikeys dog Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 Surprised no ones mentioned the Yum Yums on ABC 1 Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
Raresoul45s Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I don't know enough to give an authoritative answer to this.....but I remember my head hurting as I tried to follow when someone was discussing the dodgy Salvadors and the discussion went something like ' not so much bluey green, more of a greeny blue ! Or was it vice versa. Anyway, good question, look forward to it getting some useful [ and on thread ] answers, unlike mine. Dont start this one again Pete, my head still hurts from last time, by the way yours is a boot so I'll be over with the 20quid tomoz Darren Link to comment Social source share More sharing options...
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