Bob Relf

[Guest Gogs]

Is this record rare enough to warrant being listed on Manship's auction ?. Surely only an £80 record at most. BTW i'm watching to see what it goes for as i might even put my copy up for sale (no chance).LOL

[Dave Pinch]

the orange ones are only worth 75 imo....this is the rarer yellow copy with shiny label was pressed on yellow also...twice i think

[Kjw]

That's right Dave - the yellow label copy was booted with a matix number TA 0010

 

The matrix on the original yellow is TA 10

[Guest The Record Box]

Both authentic copies have the shaking hands logo, the reissue doesn't.

[Dave Pinch]

Both authentic copies have the shaking hands logo, the reissue doesn't.

i had a yellow shaking hands copy..matt label, really poor sound quality and lo fi.....bought as a boot sold as a boot

[Dave Pinch]

but the vinyl was the same as the orange one complete with that stamp that looks like a circle with two sticks in it,,,,it may have been real but was a poor copy..sold it to paul bailey from barnsley......wombwell i think

[John Reed]

I suppose this’ll be another example of a common record auctioned on John’s site and hitting a high finishing price.  The world will be thinking, I’m gonna have some of that….. 

 

Looking forward to the shed-loads of copies for sale, clogging up the sales section, quoting the closing price with the words “in-demand".

Edited May 24, 2013 by John Reed

[Sebastian]

Regardless of rarity YELLOW vs ORANGE... didn't we come to the conclusion in an old thread that the orange label ones (with the different phone number on the label) is the first issue?

 

The yellow "shake hands" label has got the same phone # as the official second issue on Trans.

 

1. Orange TRANS-AMERICAN issue (telephone # on the label: 213-389-9938)
2. Yellow TRANS-AMERICAN issue (telephone # on the label: 213-384-9334)
3. Official 1973 re-issue on TRANS (telephone # on the label: 213-384-9334)

Edited May 24, 2013 by Sebastian

[Kjw]

Both authentic copies have the shaking hands logo, the reissue doesn't.

 

There are 4 copies -

 

Orange Trans-American original

Yellow Trans-American original

Yellow Trans-American bootleg

Yellow Trans re-issue

[Trev Thomas]

Regardless of rarity YELLOW vs ORANGE... didn't we come to the conclusion in an old thread that the orange label ones (with the different phone number on the label) is the first issue?

 

The yellow "shake hands" label has got the same phone # as the official second issue on Trans.

 

1. Orange TRANS-AMERICAN issue (telephone # on the label: 213-389-9938)

2. Yellow TRANS-AMERICAN issue (telephone # on the label: 213-384-9334)

3. Official 1973 re-issue on TRANS (telephone # on the label: 213-384-9334)

 

if i remember correctly the conclusion drawn from the old thread was that the yellow was the first issue, something to do with the phone no on the orange being a later phone no

[Sebastian]

if i remember correctly the conclusion drawn from the old thread was that the yellow was the first issue, something to do with the phone no on the orange being a later phone no

 

In that case... why would they use the wrong/old telephone number (384-9334) on the label of the official 1973 reissue on Trans?

[Trev Thomas]

In that case... why would they use the wrong/old telephone number (384-9334) on the label of the official 1973 reissue on Trans?

 

dont know mate, there was a thread on here july 2007, (cant seem to get it on the work computer, ) in which john manship confirmed that yellow was first issue, based on the fact that earlier releases had the same phone number as the yellow copy, the trans re-release was pressed for the uk northern market so maybe they just copied the details from the yellow label, contact john and he will give you the correct info

[Guest]

 contact john and he will give you the correct info

John is learning as he goes along, just like the rest of us. 

Earlier bootleg guides can contradict later ones, as he gains more info.

Edited December 1, 2013 by Guest

[Guest Gogs]

but the vinyl was the same as the orange one complete with that stamp that looks like a circle with two sticks in it,,,,it may have been real but was a poor copy..sold it to paul bailey from barnsley......wombwell i think

I thought all copies with the "drum and drumsticks" stamp were original.

[dthedrug]

 HI ALL  Over the years I have had all variations of this superb 2 sider, B side was a Safford play. the yellow has proved to be the rare one to have, however the orange copy held that mantle for many years, the yellow 1st reissue on Trans for some reason does not fetch any more than the counterfeit record hat has poor sound, why this is has always baffled me, and established dealers for some reason don't give any credence to it either  DAVE K

[Chalky]

Hi Dave. Who played the flip at Stafford?

Edited May 24, 2013 by chalky

[TOAD]

Don't know about Stafford but HARPO played it around Wolverhampton

[dthedrug]

Don't know about Stafford but HARPO played it around Wolverhampton

THATS NEAR STAFFORD FOR ME, YOU BETTER WATCH YOU BAD EYE TOADY BOY, LESSOF THE LIP!

DAVE K

Edited May 24, 2013 by dthedrug

[Dave Pinch]

I thought all copies with the "drum and drumsticks" stamp were original.

it might have been ...looked ok but played like it had been played on a knitting needle

[Guest Gogs]

Regardless of rarity YELLOW vs ORANGE... didn't we come to the conclusion in an old thread that the orange label ones (with the different phone number on the label) is the first issue?

 

The yellow "shake hands" label has got the same phone # as the official second issue on Trans.

 

1. Orange TRANS-AMERICAN issue (telephone # on the label: 213-389-9938)

2. Yellow TRANS-AMERICAN issue (telephone # on the label: 213-384-9334)

3. Official 1973 re-issue on TRANS (telephone # on the label: 213-384-9334)

This is what i thought (as agreed on many previous threads) but just looked back at the one on Manship's auction and he seems to have "thrown a spanner in the works" by updating his information and putting in a completely different phone number.

https://www.raresoulman.co.uk/auction/next-week/

[dthedrug]

 HI ALL THERE IS CONFUSION ON THIS RECORD, as I said it's taken 40 years to sort it all out, the order is correct, and normally most collectors of rare soul would go for the 1st release, in this case the ORANGE issue, However the 1st issues also had a YELLOW label, and the YELLOW label was used on the reissue, We or I assumed that all YELLOW label copies were reissues, this has proved not to be the case,

In the batch of 1st issues 45's with the ORANGE label are more common that the 1st issue YELLOWS, all bootlegs are yellow copies using the TRANS label, intern this has devalued the legit TRANS reissue, Hope that this is ok, or I have got wrong also  DAVE K  

[Guest Gogs]

 HI ALL THERE IS CONFUSION ON THIS RECORD, as I said it's taken 40 years to sort it all out, the order is correct, and normally most collectors of rare soul would go for the 1st release, in this case the ORANGE issue, However the 1st issues also had a YELLOW label, and the YELLOW label was used on the reissue, We or I assumed that all YELLOW label copies were reissues, this has proved not to be the case,

In the batch of 1st issues 45's with the ORANGE label are more common that the 1st issue YELLOWS, all bootlegs are yellow copies using the TRANS label, intern this has devalued the legit TRANS reissue, Hope that this is ok, or I have got wrong also  DAVE K  

Ok so far Dave, but where does this new phone number that JM's quoting "213 750 4966" come into the mix.

I'm more confused than ever, i've even been back through all the old threads i could find on this subject and never has this number been mentioned.

[Godzilla]

Ok so far Dave, but where does this new phone number that JM's quoting "213 750 4966" come into the mix.

I'm more confused than ever, i've even been back through all the old threads i could find on this subject and never has this number been mentioned.

 

 

I kind of referred to it back on 2006 when I wrote:

 

Trans American Discography?

Or any other info on the label. I've had three releases:

0007 Sam & the Soul Walkers

0008 Village Crusaders

0010 Bob Relf

Between 0007 and 0008 the address changes from Hollywood to another part of LA and all three have different phone numbers!

I've also seen listed an Aki Aleong 45, "Legend of the Limbo" with the cat No. 1010. Although the numbering system is different I assume it's the same label as he is involved in two of the earlier releases.

Any other info or recommendations?

 

.............

 

As you can see it wasn't exactly a hot topic

 

[Sebastian]

Ok so far Dave, but where does this new phone number that JM's quoting "213 750 4966" come into the mix.

I'm more confused than ever, i've even been back through all the old threads i could find on this subject and never has this number been mentioned.

 

The phone number Manship is quoting can be found on the Village Crusaders 45, I've never seen it on the Bob Relf 45 though. If that number is on the yellow label Bob Relf that he is auctioning (I can't tell from the scan on his site, it is too small) then I guess there really is no doubt that the yellow one with 750-4966 number is the original. And hideously rare as well!

 

This is what I've found:

 

TA #0007 - 213-466-1281 : Sam And The Soul Walkers

TA #0008 - 213-750-4966 : Village Crusaders

TA #0009 - 213-384-9334 : Aki Aleong (reissue of VEE JAY #527)     

TA #0010 - 213-384-9334 : Bob Relf (YELLOW)

TA #0010 - 213-389-9938 : Bob Relf (ORANGE)

TRANS #0010 - 213-384-9334 : Bob Relf

 

The Joel Hill, Will Wendel, Expressos and Montereys 45s with a different catalouge numbering system are obviously released on a related TRANS AMERICAN label, but they date from much earlier (1960-1962).

 

Edited May 26, 2013 by Sebastian

[Guest Gogs]

Right then we now have

 

TA#0010 - 213 750 4966 : Bob Relf (yellow)

TA #0010 - 213-389-9938 : Bob Relf (ORANGE)
TA #0010 - 213-384-9334 : Bob Relf (YELLOW)

TRANS #0010 - 213-384-9334 : Bob Relf ( Official re-issue)

TRANS #0010 - 213-384-9334 : Bob Relf (boot) If what i understand from previous threads is right.

 

 

Really could do with dates on when these were issued.

[Sebastian]

Right then we now have

 

TA#0010 - 213 750 4966 : Bob Relf (yellow)

 

Would love to see a scan of the above for verification.

[Guest Gogs]

Would love to see a scan of the above for verification.

Yea i tried enlarging the copy on jm's but it was still illegible.

this was the best i could get, click on it to enlarge.

Edited May 26, 2013 by Gogs

[Sebastian]

Yea i tried enlarging the copy on jm's but it was still illegible.

this was the best i could get, click on it to enlarge.

8060_1.jpg

 

Very blurry, but that scan definitely doesn't read 750-4966.

[neckender]

The phone number Manship is quoting can be found on the Village Crusaders 45, I've never seen it on the Bob Relf 45 though. If that number is on the yellow label Bob Relf that he is auctioning (I can't tell from the scan on his site, it is too small) then I guess there really is no doubt that the yellow one with 750-4966 number is the original. And hideously rare as well!

 

Does anyone have the phone number for TA #0009?

 

This is what I've found:

 

TA #0007 - 213-466-1281 : Sam And The Soul Walkers

TA #0008 - 213-750-4966 : Village Crusaders

TA #0009 - ???-???-???? : Aki Aleong (reissue of VEE JAY #527)            :

TA #0010 - 213-389-9938 : Bob Relf (ORANGE)

TA #0010 - 213-384-9334 : Bob Relf (YELLOW)

TRANS #0010 - 213-384-9334 : Bob Relf

 

The Joel Hill, Will Wendel, Expressos and Montereys 45s with a different catalouge numbering system are obviously released on a related TRANS AMERICAN label, but they date from much earlier (1960-1962).

 

Seb,  phone number of TA-0009   is  213-384-9334

[Sebastian]

Seb,  phone number of TA-0009   is  213-384-9334

 

THANKS!

 

Looks like the yellow "shake hands" issue that Manship is auctioning right now is the first release after all then.

 

The orange is the second issue.

 

Great stuff!

Edited May 26, 2013 by Sebastian

[Guest Gogs]

Very blurry, but that scan definitely doesn't read 750-4966.

That's what i thought, but as you say it is very blurry, but then why would JM state that in his info?

[neckender]

THANKS!

 

Looks like the yellow "shake hands" issue that Manship is auctioning right now is the first release after all then.

 

The orange is the second issue.

 

Great stuff!

John Manship has a different phone number for the 'first yellow label press' than we have here.  In his auction blurb, John has the  phone number, 213 750 4966.  Is this another press?

I can't make out the phone number in the auction picture.

[Guest Gogs]

John Manship has a different phone number for the 'first yellow label press' than we have here.  In his auction blurb, John has the  phone number, 213 750 4966.  Is this another press?

I can't make out the phone number in the auction picture.

That's what we need to find out as he states that the orange label with the new number is 2nd run, so where does this leave the other yellow copy? (that i thought was an original).

[dthedrug]

TA #0007 - 213-466-1281 : Sam And The Soul Walkers
TA #0008 - 213-750-4966 : Village Crusaders
TA #0009 - 213-384-9334 : Aki Aleong (reissue of VEE JAY #527)     

TA #0010 - 213-384-9334 : Bob Relf (YELLOW)

TA #0010 - 213-389-9938 : Bob Relf (ORANGE)
TRANS #0010 - 213-384-9334 : Bob Relf

 HI ALL.. This is a mystery that could be solved by John providing a good scan & giving his opinion, to fit in with this thread, as I find it difficult after all these years to except my copy is not a 1st issue, based on the fact that the telephone numbers differ?

Having not seen TA #007,-008, 009, 45's, is it not more likely that the company used the earlier label at the same time as the updated label, they would not be the 1st record company to use different labels on the initial run,?

Also why am I sure there is a white demo? if there is, it will have the info of the record up for auction, it should? but if it exists, the info will be the same as my release, this is speculation on my part, but needs to be sorted  DAVE K

[Sebastian]

John Manship has a different phone number for the 'first yellow label press' than we have here.  In his auction blurb, John has the  phone number, 213 750 4966.  Is this another press?

I can't make out the phone number in the auction picture.

 

Same here, would be great if he cleared it up.

 

Inoticed that he has changed the description again. It now doesn't state anything about the phone number.

 

Going by the blurry scan, I assume that he made a typo earlier and that his auction copy actually has got 213-384-9334 on it.

[Guest Gogs]

Same here, would be great if he cleared it up.

 

Inoticed that he has changed the description again. It now doesn't state anything about the phone number.

 

Going by the blurry scan, I assume that he made a typo earlier and that his auction copy actually has got 213-384-9334 on it.

Hi Sabastian, Well spotted that JM's changed his info again, i think he's been on here reading this thread, would be nice if he could comment on what we're asking.

Edited May 27, 2013 by Gogs

[Sebastian]

Hi Sabastian, Well spotted that JM's changed his info again, i think he's been on here reading this thread, would be nice if he could comment on what we're asking.

 

Just found a YouTube video clip posted with Manship's account on the 18th of May 2013:

 

 

 

It is the 213-384-9334 variation.

 

He must've made a typo earlier regarding the 213-750-4966 phone number which as far as I know can only be found on the Village Crusaders 45.

[Guest Gogs]

Just found a YouTube video clip posted with Manship's account on the 18th of May 2013:

 

It is the 213-384-9334 variation.

 

He must've made a typo earlier regarding the 213-750-4966 phone number which as far as I know can only be found on the Village Crusaders 45.

I'm going to change your name to Sherlock LOL

[Guest Gogs]

Went for £185 (so i was only £105 out), still don't think it merits that price, but the ex copy in my box has just went up in price lol. (Think i'll play it out on Friday).