Why Did Wigan Go Pop?

[Steve G]

who can blame Russ and Keith for going further down the 'pop' route.

Me for one.

A number of us were very unhappy at the time - not so much with the Helen Shapiro's, Len Barry's, Barry St John's etc. which did at least have a "feel" for them, but with the abominal dirges like Muriel Day, Judith Durham (played by Richard ironically I seem to recall), Bobby Goldsboro, Lenny gamble etc...And who could forget poor old Dave Evisons endless revivals of "Lightening strikes" in the last hour - a sure fire reminder of the benefits of ducking out early for the early train! As a matter of fact at least 10 of us stopped going from Kent in 1978, prefferring instead the more authentic 6Ts nights run by Randy and Ady in London.

If you go back to the early days of Wigan, Russ was at it back then with endless Soussan instrumentals / Footsee etc. No one is saying he didn't play some soul records - one of Russ's best spins at Wigan was Willie Hutch "Love games" a timeless record. However the guy is exactly as described by Mr Darge, and in the history of Wigan was one of the worst offenders along with the aforementioned Mr Minshull. Meanwhile Richard, Brady, Rushbrooke etc. gave the place credibility - I am afraid neither Russ or Keith did.

Although I went again a couple of times in 1980 I never remember the place with as few as 200 in - only ever remember a near empty dancefloor once - ironically for Judy Freeman "Hold on" which of course is a very good record.

[Guest Netspeaky]

Me for one.

A number of us were very unhappy at the time - not so much with the Helen Shapiro's, Len Barry's, Barry St John's etc. which did at least have a "feel" for them, but with the abominal dirges like Muriel Day, Judith Durham (played by Richard ironically I seem to recall), Bobby Goldsboro, Lenny gamble etc...And who could forget poor old Dave Evisons endless revivals of "Lightening strikes" in the last hour - a sure fire reminder of the benefits of ducking out early for the early train! As a matter of fact at least 10 of us stopped going from Kent in 1978, prefferring instead the more authentic 6Ts nights run by Randy and Ady in London.

If you go back to the early days of Wigan, Russ was at it back then with endless Soussan instrumentals / Footsee etc. No one is saying he didn't play some soul records - one of Russ's best spins at Wigan was Willie Hutch "Love games" a timeless record. However the guy is exactly as described by Mr Darge, and in the history of Wigan was one of the worst offenders along with the aforementioned Mr Minshull. Meanwhile Richard, Brady, Rushbrooke etc. gave the place credibility - I am afraid neither Russ or Keith did.

Although I went again a couple of times in 1980 I never remember the place with as few as 200 in - only ever remember a near empty dancefloor once - ironically for Judy Freeman "Hold on" which of course is a very good record.

"Lightening strikes" was being played as a Classic Oldie, having been played in the Wheel and the Torch, so don't blame the Casino for this being played on the Soul scene. as for authentic 6Ts nights, Lou Christie came out in 1965 that's was in the 60's wasn't it, so I guess that make it authentic 60's. Even Ady played 60's white pop at his 60's do's, I uncovered one of his covered up DECCA tracks half way through it's first play, again selective memories of what was actually played at certain venues. Edited May 23, 2006 by Netspeaky

[Steve G]

"Lightening strikes" was being played as a Classic Oldie, having been played in the Wheel and the Torch, so don't blame the Casino for this being played on the Soul scene.

I know that - hence played in Evison's "oldies hour" - point I was making is it was symbolic of the direction Wigan was going in the late 70's.

[Winnie :-)]

Maybe a few of the records played at the casino wouldn't get the time of day now, but we have got older and tastes change. It was predominately a dance scene back then, whereas nowadays the quality of the record seems far more important to most. Nothing wrong with that, but it can't detract from the atmosphere and the special days of the casino in full flow IMO.

Winnie:-)

[grant]

Maybe a few of the records played at the casino wouldn't get the time of day now, but we have got older and tastes change. It was predominately a dance scene back then, whereas nowadays the quality of the record seems far more important to most. Nothing wrong with that, but it can't detract from the atmosphere and the special days of the casino in full flow IMO.

Winnie:-)

In a nutshell Winnie

[Jim G]

Also (slightly off topic) the Mecca really pushed new releases. Tavares, Emotions, George Benson, Lamont Dozier, Crown Heights Affair, Rose Royce, etc. (all great music, but not really Northern in its truest context).

The first tiime I heard 'Heaven Must Be Missing An Angel', months before UK charts, was at the Mecca and if I remember right Colin Curtis played it (he certainly had the album in his hand that night)

So depending upon your defintiton of 'pop' maybe it was the Mecca who went pop! Wigan just continued with standard mix of black/white music and resisted (polite word) playing all the new releases. Yes it did play quite a few but nowhere near what the Mecca was doing.

As I said sllightly off topic, but maybe adds another dimension to the original post?

[Wiganer1]

Also (slightly off topic) the Mecca really pushed new releases. Tavares, Emotions, George Benson, Lamont Dozier, Crown Heights Affair, Rose Royce, etc. (all great music, but not really Northern in its truest context).

The first tiime I heard 'Heaven Must Be Missing An Angel', months before UK charts, was at the Mecca and if I remember right Colin Curtis played it (he certainly had the album in his hand that night)

So depending upon your defintiton of 'pop' maybe it was the Mecca who went pop! Wigan just continued with standard mix of black/white music and resisted (polite word) playing all the new releases. Yes it did play quite a few but nowhere near what the Mecca was doing.

As I said sllightly off topic, but maybe adds another dimension to the original post?

========

what a great thread....some great points for both sides of the fence....

[SteveM]

I know that - hence played in Evison's "oldies hour" - point I was making is it was symbolic of the direction Wigan was going in the late 70's.

But Steve, remember the main reason DE played it. You could buy it for 25p.

[Wiganer1]

Judith Durham (played by Richard ironically I seem to recall),

====

worse record that richard spun at wigan for me was johnathans experience - mixed up foolish girl on mgm covered up as the high boys - dreadful!!!

[Jerry Hipkiss]

Myself ,personally i stopped going toWigan earlier on as for me the music at Cleethorpes was better!(and Yate)bit biased as i think a lot of us older youths from early Wigan seemed to go that way,also when you are twenty two/three youngsters piss you off more(Wigan was full of them!)

agreed on that Steve - at one of my last Wigan visits (late summer '81) some kid of no more than 14 walked up to me and said "we think you're squad"...if only he knew...

but yes, because of the lowering in age, it did seem that quite a few of the people who'd been on the scene for some years seemed to choose Yate or Cleethorpes - not that we necessarily acted much more grown up!

Hippo.

[BrianB]

Maybe a few of the records played at the casino wouldn't get the time of day now, but we have got older and tastes change. It was predominately a dance scene back then, whereas nowadays the quality of the record seems far more important to most. Nothing wrong with that, but it can't detract from the atmosphere and the special days of the casino in full flow IMO.

Winnie:-)

Winnie,

Burnley had a major team at the Casino from September 73 to its closing. We had the Burnley Corner from the 1st month!

However, the team from Burnley from 73 to say 78, certainly never classed Wigan as a dance club, and never ever classed northern soul as a dance scene. That may have been the case later, but it was all about the music, which was 85% soul, 95 Northern Soul.

Thanks,

Brian

[Guest Netspeaky]

Also (slightly off topic) the Mecca really pushed new releases. Tavares, Emotions, George Benson, Lamont Dozier, Crown Heights Affair, Rose Royce, etc. (all great music, but not really Northern in its truest context).

The first tiime I heard 'Heaven Must Be Missing An Angel', months before UK charts, was at the Mecca and if I remember right Colin Curtis played it (he certainly had the album in his hand that night)

So depending upon your defintiton of 'pop' maybe it was the Mecca who went pop! Wigan just continued with standard mix of black/white music and resisted (polite word) playing all the new releases. Yes it did play quite a few but nowhere near what the Mecca was doing.

As I said sllightly off topic, but maybe adds another dimension to the original post?

Most if not all of these records were also played at the Casino, see post about Casino Chart Hits to get full picture of records that were played at the Casino and were later Chart hits.

[Steve G]

Maybe a few of the records played at the casino wouldn't get the time of day now, but we have got older and tastes change. It was predominately a dance scene back then, whereas nowadays the quality of the record seems far more important to most. Nothing wrong with that, but it can't detract from the atmosphere and the special days of the casino in full flow IMO.

Winnie:-)

Winnie I agree with this view as well. Nothing can detract from the fact that the place was THE place to be in the 70's, and we all have wonderful memories of the place - me included. My comments are really around why it went "pop" in 78 etc....and in my opinion that was in significant part down to two sub standard DJ's. Yes we were younger and less "objective" then, and as a result I think our standards (as punters) were lower, and also we put the DJs on more of a pedestal than they deserved to be. But hey we're all older and far wiser now - at least we can put it in perspective.

[Wiganer1]

Winnie I agree with this view as well. Nothing can detract from the fact that the place was THE place to be in the 70's, and we all have wonderful memories of the place - me included. My comments are really around why it went "pop" in 78 etc....and in my opinion that was in significant part down to two sub standard DJ's. Yes we were younger and less "objective" then, and as a result I think our standards (as punters) were lower, and also we put the DJs on more of a pedestal than they deserved to be. But hey we're all older and far wiser now - at least we can put it in perspective.

=========

interesting points there dave

just cant get me head round 'russ' being substandard though

surely a guy who ran the allniter for 8 years couldnt be that bad could he

im still a fan anyway cuz i think he played some brill stuff just different to RS ,,

if it had all been the same i probably wouldnt have like it..

...

[Russ Vickers]

Myself ,personally i stopped going toWigan earlier on as for me the music at Cleethorpes was better!(and Yate)bit biased as i think a lot of us older youths from early Wigan seemed to go that way,also when you are twenty two/three youngsters piss you off more(Wigan was full of them!)

Steve

I was quite lucky in the respect that whilst I went to Wigan quite religeously, depending on how much money I had & who could get a car (unusual), what time I finished work etc, keeping in mind I was living & working in Portsmouth by now (8 hours on the train to Wigan, cos we couldnt afford to go via London)I also went to Yate, Sams, St Ives, Cleethorpes & pretty much every where really, whilst I now realise the differences in the music policies I'm afraid at the time I was too excited by the whole scene in general & this wonderful music I had found & the elite cool clubs I was frequenting to really appreciate the differences back then. With hind sight I think that there was pop played every where, but Wigan was probably the worst offender..................I can imagine the older soulies being put off by this, as they had a better perspective on what had gone before & also what 'real' soul music was all about, I never had this perspective untill Stafford really I dont think, thats when I really began to get a proper grasp on SOUL in general.

My one regret is that I never attended any 6ts events until the 100 Club Nighters, I would dearly have loved to have been witness to the full development off the legend !.

Russ

Edited May 24, 2006 by Russ Vickers

[Jerry Hipkiss]

My one regret is that I never attended any 6ts events until the 100 Club Nighters, I would dearly have loved to have been witness to the full development off the legend !.

Russ

Russ, believe me, you wouldn't remember a thing anyway, never an event for teetotallers - even pre-6t's when Mick Smith etc. did the Birds Nest in West Hamstead back in '73. I was on a course in London at the time, went up there and got totally hammered on Special Brew, my workmates had to carry me into the hotel lift...great night!

Edited May 24, 2006 by Jerry Hipkiss

[Simon M]

The 100 club niters took a while to develop . I fell alseep at the first one .. 81 I think ??, being more used to early closing RnB and Jazz Funk events .. Clarkie and Keb , the main dj's later .imho.

Simon

[Baz Atkinson]

REALLY SURPRISED THAT NO ONE HAS MENTIONED THE LEDGENDARY RECORD STORE THAT SOLD BLUE VINYL RECORDS UPSTAIRS.YOU COULD BUY A SHINY BLUE VINYL COPY OF TEN TO ONE THEN CELEBRATE BY GOING 20 FEET AND BUYING A MEAT AND TATTY PIE.

OTHER THINGS I REMEMBER FROM THE PERIOD I WENT WAS THE AMOUNT OF COVER UPS SURE THESE WILL RING A BELL.

PURE SOUL BAND,

EDDIE JEFFERSON,

BOBBY ADAMS,

GENE MC DAMIELS

THE MICHELLES

ROBERT L MARTIN

CHESTER PIPKIN ETC ETC ETC.

REMEMBER FIGHTING WITH THE PUNKS WHEN DARLO LADS AND BORO LADS COMBINED ,THE SAME NIGHT THE NEWCASTLE BUS ROLES IN AND THERE HAD BEEN FIGHTING LIKE MAD WITH A BUNCH OF HELLS ANGELS AT THORNTON SERVICES.

DID WIGAN GO POP WELL I WENT FROM APRIL 78 [THE LOVE HUSTLE PERIOD FOR POP] TO THE MIGHTY SEARLING PERIOD OF 79 RIGHT THROUGH TILL THE END.WILL NEVER FORGET SEARLING PLAYING EDDIE JEFFERSON "PAY THE PRICE FOR THE NEWTON AYCLIFFE CROWD,HE SLIPS IN OVER THE MIKE IMPECCABLE TASTE IN SOUL [WE WERE ALL 16 AT THE TIME] CRAZY TIMES,BITS OF POP BUT MOSTLY RECORDS THAT HAVE STOOD THE TEST OF TIME.

NO VENUE WILL EVER MATCH IT IN MY EYES IT WAS JUST TOTAL CHAOS! WHAT A RIGHT OF PASSAGE.

[Russ Vickers]

The 100 club niters took a while to develop . I fell alseep at the first one .. 81 I think ??, being more used to early closing RnB and Jazz Funk events .. Clarkie and Keb , the main dj's later .imho.

Simon

Must admit the early 100 Club Nighters were an aquired taste for me & to be perfectly honest I had to make a conscious effort to 'stick with it' , its my nearest All-Nighter so wasnt too much of an effort, but the 100 Club is a proper Rare Soul Club, as it evolves constantly......................remember Ady's Latin phase . Clarkie was the man.........miss his sets terribly, personal circumstances I know, but the scene is so much poorer for not having the sublime tastes of this guy pounding your ears...........Northern & Modern.

Russ

[SteveM]

. Clarkie was the man.........miss his sets terribly, personal circumstances I know, but the scene is so much poorer for not having the sublime tastes of this guy pounding your ears...........Northern & Modern.

Russ

Agree totally Russ. And a very nice guy as well.

[Guest WPaulVanDyk]

in the 60's there was surely a mod scene that would play white artists with soul music. Wigan would be just a straight forward venue for Northern soul.

I believe that if they had to play white artists it should be based on the fact they made a Northern soul hit. Same as today if any wishes to play a white artists so be it but as long as it was Northern soul.

I wouldn't want to think they have to or break certain records on the scene they think is long forgotten Northern by say white artists who are nothing for Northern

[Mike]

in the 60's there was surely a mod scene that would play white artists with soul music. Wigan would be just a straight forward venue for Northern soul.

I believe that if they had to play white artists it should be based on the fact they made a Northern soul hit. Same as today if any wishes to play a white artists so be it but as long as it was Northern soul.

I wouldn't want to think they have to or break certain records on the scene they think is long forgotten Northern by say white artists who are nothing for Northern

hi

ask before posting, can you have a read of what you are posting first

may be just my take, but unfortunatly to me your post makes no sense what so ever

thanks

mike