Sir Joe On Ru Jac

[Marc Forrest]

 

The middle third is a bit flat but the beginning and the end is top notch so all in all not a bad tune at all.

 

Its neither a Eddie Parker (to name just one example of an trad old classic) nor a Willie Tee Bonatemp (to name just one example of what I class as a top high class "newly" establised rare Soul 45) but based on the fact that this is one of the rarely found and even rarer breaking thru "new" discoveries and not a bad Soul record at all I would give it 7-8 out of ten ;)

[Iancsloft]

wrong karl, you should have joined Andy and Mick`s last travel to the Hip City. Andy Dyson danced :o ?!!

Marc you could get someone with no legs to dance at HipCity with all that beer and good music you pour down there necks lol

[Chalky]

 

 

wrong karl, you should have joined Andy and Mick`s last travel to the Hip City. Andy Dyson danced :o ?!!

 

wow twice in ten years 

[Guest Bearsy]

Its neither a Eddie Parker (to name just one example of an trad old classic) nor a Willie Tee Bonatemp (to name just one example of what I class as a top high class "newly" establised rare Soul 45) but based on the fact that this is one of the rarely found and even rarer breaking thru "new" discoveries and not a bad Soul record at all I would give it 7-8 out of ten ;)

I would give it 8 out of 10 myself it would have a 10 out of 10 if it didnt go a bit flat in the middle.

Just how rare is this tune is there many worldwide known ??

[NEV]

It's that messy it could ,with the right dj ... actually be a winner

Here's me thinking that the raw sound was actually the apeal ?

[Peter99]

It's proper, thumping, super traditional sounding 60's northern soul. I think it's great.

That's what I said Sebastian!

 

 

 

Peter

[Guest ritchie]

That fact it nearly loses it but manages to hang on for dear life adds to its appeal imo. And those horns!!! The flip ain't to shabby either ( The horns again.  )
A great dancer too... 
I love it,.

[Chris Anderton]

Well, well well...great thread guys. Judging by the response I have got after having this one up for auction for the last 5 days most people seem to disagree with the original poster!

 

It would be remiss of me not to post a link and give everyone a chance to own this wonderful record!

 

https://www.midastouchsoul.co.uk/

 

 

Thanks,

 

Chris

[NEV]

Surely Phil deserves a reward or discount for attracting so much interest ;)

[Quinvy]

I'll tell you what prompted this thread. When I read about this great new discovery that was on auction and was expected to make 2k I couldn't wait to hear it.

My God! it's hard to imagine that we all like the same style of music sometimes. 

 

I see myself as the voice of common sense on here. You lot have been taking drugs for too long and standing too close to the speakers, you've all lost the plot. 

 

I'm off to play some classic oldies.  

[Steve G]

I'll tell you what prompted this thread. When I read about this great new discovery that was on auction and was expected to make 2k I couldn't wait to hear it.

My God! it's hard to imagine that we all like the same style of music sometimes. 

 

I see myself as the voice of common sense on here. You lot have been taking drugs for too long and standing too close to the speakers, you've all lost the plot. 

 

I'm off to play some classic oldies.  

 

But it's been around for years, not a new discovery. Collectors have known about it, Andy Dyson had it on a tape a few years ago and I remember when Dave Thorley managed to prize a couple out of the man Sir Joe himself - must be 5 years ago now. I got offered one, but Dave sold it to his accountant p.d.q. I still prefer his other one on Rujac  :lol: I am in a minority of one then, so nothing new there! :

Edited April 15, 2013 by Steve G

[KevH]

Is this it Steve? or is it the flip you played at Skeg last year.? I know you're itching to post it up .

 

[Steve L]

After reading this thread I've just had to play the youtube clip to see if I was losing the plot and I'm relieved to say I'm not.

Great record, especially about 4 in the morning

Edited April 15, 2013 by Steve L

[sir cumference]

Its showing at £10000.00 on the site!

 

That must be a typo-surely?

[Marc Forrest]

But it's been around for years, not a new discovery. Collectors have known about it, Andy Dyson had it on a tape a few years ago and I remember when Dave Thorley managed to prize a couple out of the man Sir Joe himself - must be 5 years ago now. I got offered one, but Dave sold it to his accountant p.d.q. I still prefer his other one on Rujac  :lol: I am in a minority of one then, so nothing new there! :

 

You know how big the impact on the scene the fact has it had been featured on a collectors tape and was known about amongst had core collectors ? Zero. Nada. Nothing.

 

The record broke thru the moment Dave sold said copies to fellow DJ`s. Fact.

 

Before you have to mention it a third time Steve LOL... we all know by now you have another rare one by him. so come on and post a soundfile of that Sir Joe 45 so that we all can tell you how sh**e it is ... the soul-source way LOL ;)

Edited April 15, 2013 by Marc Forrest

[Chalky]

I'll tell you what prompted this thread. When I read about this great new discovery that was on auction and was expected to make 2k I couldn't wait to hear it.My God! it's hard to imagine that we all like the same style of music sometimes.   I see myself as the voice of common sense on here. You lot have been taking drugs for too long and standing too close to the speakers, you've all lost the plot.   I'm off to play some classic oldies.  

I think it is you that's been at the drug cabinet...either that or you ought to seek medication

[KevH]

You know how big the impact on the scene the fact has it had been featured on a collectors tape and was known about amongst had core collectors ? Zero. Nada. Nothing.

 

The record broke thru the moment Dave sold said copies to fellow DJ`s. Fact.

 

Before you have to mention it a third time Steve LOL... we all know by now you have another rare one by him. so come on and post a soundfile of that Sir Joe 45 so that we all can tell you how sh**e it is ... the soul-source way LOL ;)

 

See post 62.?

[Chalky]

You know how big the impact on the scene the fact has it had been featured on a collectors tape and was known about amongst had core collectors ? Zero. Nada. Nothing. The record broke thru the moment Dave sold said copies to fellow DJ`s. Fact. Before you have to mention it a third time Steve LOL... we all know by now you have another rare one by him. so come on and post a soundfile of that Sir Joe 45 so that we all can tell you how sh**e it is ... the soul-source way LOL ;)

There was no impact as output it on the scene as no one had a copy, not the DJ's who carry the clout to break a record. It is pretty obvious that as soon as Dave, Butch and Andy Dyson get a copy it is going to get some turntable action.

[Marc Forrest]

See post 62.?

we posted almost simultaneously... 

 

BUT...what a lame and boring track that is ??!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

just joking Steve ;)

Edited April 15, 2013 by Marc Forrest

[Marc Forrest]

There was no impact as output it on the scene as no one had a copy, not the DJ's who carry the clout to break a record. It is pretty obvious that as soon as Dave, Butch and Andy Dyson get a copy it is going to get some turntable action.

 

 

erm, which is exactly what I said ??

Edited April 15, 2013 by Marc Forrest

[Chalky]

erm, which is exactly what I said ??

Exactly...stating the bleeding obvious as we say here.

[Chris Anderton]

Its showing at £10000.00 on the site!

 

That must be a typo-surely?

No, the record is up for auction but to list it on the site I had to enter a price.

 

You can bet that if I left it at zero some joker would have bought it through the checkout!

 

The current bid is less than £10,000................considerably less!

 

 

Chris

[Johnmcc]

I like it, dance to it,haven't got it, want it.

I don't care for the opinion of maggot drowners, chair chasers, ecky teetotallers, horlick drinkers and book me and I'll turnuppers.

Best wishes, John

[Dave Pinch]

both sir joe 45`s are good records..but he was never a singer tho was he

[Dave Abbott]

i think listening at home on the computer doesn't do it justice - it's a great tune imo, go and hear it out :-)

 

 

and until recently i thought that it didn't have a label number, so either i dreamt that (quite possible!) or is there a Sir Guy 45 that is not numbered??

[Dave Pinch]

sir joe`s 45`a on rujac book at £150 and £75 respectively

[Steve G]

You know how big the impact on the scene the fact has it had been featured on a collectors tape and was known about amongst had core collectors ? Zero. Nada. Nothing.

 

The record broke thru the moment Dave sold said copies to fellow DJ`s. Fact.

 

 

This is where I think you continually get it wrong Marc - overemphasising the impact of plays at allnighters. Not everyone buys records based on the playlists of Butch, Andy D etc.much as that might disappoint you. Records on Rujac have always enjoyed collector demand.

 

That said, there are some "liggers" / pretenders who will always have a feeding frenzy and bump a price up on a Butch spin and we all recognise that. And I would agree that Niter spins have certainly pushed the price up. I can tell you that at the beginning when Dave first got his copies the price was £1k. And to suggest that no one wanted this until it got spins at Niters is a massive over simplification of the record / collecting market.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Steve G

[John Reed]

sir joe`s 45`a on rujac book at £150 and £75 respectively

An if its in "black n white" in the book, then that must be "the real" value.......... Anyone wanna take £200 for the pair?     

[Corbett80]

One new record  a night does not make........get ya head around that concept  and ya halfway there.

 

Are we saying that if you know all the records in a night......it,s not a good night or put another way  it,s a poor night if nowt new/good is played?.

 

for me sir joe is average......soul sounds unlimited    now ya talking  

 

 

Really?! Are you talking about 'The Word Called Love'?? 

[Dave Thorley]

I did post the story on this once before. Got 4 copies from Joe, it caught my eye at his house, as the label has none standard catalog number, see scan. So I ask him the story, he told me that he recorded, wrote and worked on a number of releases for the label, his own and others. He was only 16ish at the time and knew little about the industry. Fairly quickly he realised that maybe he should be getting paid more than he was for his work so he approached the label owner and Winfield Parker on the subject. This fairly quickly broke down into an argument and he walked out of the company. At the time of leaving, this 45 was due to be released, as he left the offices he grabbed a handful of copies. He tells me that he learnt through a third party, that after he left it was agreed that the record wouldn't be released and all the copies at the office got thrown away. A few copies had gone out to radio DJ's, but the word went out not to play it.

 

Now this is his memory of the story, little reason to doubt him, I spoke to Winfield about the release around the same time, his memory of the 45 was fairly sketchy, but he was fairly sure it hadn't come out also. As for his voice, he was 16, he said his voice was breaking at the time, so give him a break, it maybe not the best at times on the recording, but it's way better than many classics I could name. The style in which he sings is unusual on 'Nobody beats my love', but that gives it a uniqueness I like. His vocal on the flip are possibly better, but the track is a little more messy. As for it's rarity, well if the above stories are true, then few survived his leaving. When I got back, I asked the usual suspects and none of them had a copy in their collections, played it to all of them, both sides and all said they would like a copy. As for price, it was arrived at by common consent, all were happy at the agreed price. They are all old hand, no fools and all agreed.

 

It's true that not long after I got back Ady Pountain did find a copy at a Bristol record fair for maybe £20, Malayka was standing behind him when he got it. But that has nothing to do with it's value, he just got lucky. For those that don't like, I respect you view, it is a little different vocally, as I have already stated. But to say it's scrapping the barrel is just ridiculous and being provocative for the sake of it, or maybe your just bored. Lastly as many have stated, from day one of being played out, the dance floor reaction has been great.

 

The music I listen to now, my own records and that of other DJ's has changed almost beyond all recognition from that I used to hear at places like Wigan, Yate etc. I personally can see how both have or had a time and place and thats why I still travel most weekends places to hear the soul music I love.

Edited April 15, 2013 by Dave Thorley

[Dave Thorley]

[Guest peter burke]

"Lastly as many have stated, from day one of being played out, the dance floor reaction has been great."

 

Remember it well Dave in the second room Bamberg a few years ago with at least three well known/respected UK collectors rushing to the decks to check it out.

 

Pete

[Marc Forrest]

This is where I think you continually get it wrong Marc - overemphasising the impact of plays at allnighters. Not everyone buys records based on the playlists of Butch, Andy D etc.much as that might disappoint you. Records on Rujac have always enjoyed collector demand.

 

That said, there are some "liggers" / pretenders who will always have a feeding frenzy and bump a price up on a Butch spin and we all recognise that. And I would agree that Niter spins have certainly pushed the price up. I can tell you that at the beginning when Dave first got his copies the price was £1k. And to suggest that no one wanted this until it got spins at Niters is a massive over simplification of the record / collecting market.

Ah well,....where to start ? Let me first get it straight were you obviously misinterpreted me as you continually seem to do:

 

I didnt overemphasise the impact niter play has. But niter plays PLUS for example the heavy rotations on social media sites such as fb and others  (which are only caused by the fact that certain DJ`s have and include such records in their sets) have much more impact than collectors tapes. They, and I repeat myself here as that was the only statement I not only made but you also obviously did not get, have no impact at all. Zero.

 

Second: where did I suggest no one wanted the record when Dave had his batch for sale ? Why do you always try to change around what one has said ? Of course nearly every one wanted a copy ! Thats the thing with newies.. no matter if butch or some other big name already has a copy or not. Thought you knew that.

 

So please in future read more carefully what I have said before you quote me and stay off from trying to twist my words around and trying to explain to me how the collectors market works. which in itself is -somehow- almost ...ridiculous. 

[Guest gordon russell]

There was no impact as output it on the scene as no one had a copy, not the DJ's who carry the clout to break a record. It is pretty obvious that as soon as Dave, Butch and Andy Dyson get a copy it is going to get some turntable action.

So you're saying as long as a big named dj plays a tune it,ll be an instant hit/big tune/big indemander  ect ect because a lesser known fella/lady nas no cedibility so therefore the record won,t be viewed the same ......don,t understand dj with clout?.......so if killa or kev h or any number of fellas out there who can play a mean set had discovered the parliaments  it would,ve been rubbish...umm.....l would go as far as saying  if sir joe had been played by anyone who was not a big name.....it would have been dismissed as  mediocre......l sometimes wonder if a big name dj   played the sh*thouse door at venues  everyone would want a sh*thouse door ......  

Edited April 15, 2013 by gordon russell

[Steve G]

Ah well,....where to start ? Let me first get it straight were you obviously misinterpreted me as you continually seem to do:

 

I didnt overemphasise the impact niter play has. But niter plays PLUS for example the heavy rotations on social media sites such as fb and others  (which are only caused by the fact that certain DJ`s have and include such records in their sets) have much more impact than collectors tapes. They, and I repeat myself here as that was the only statement I not only made but you also obviously did not get, have no impact at all. Zero.

 

Second: where did I suggest no one wanted the record when Dave had his batch for sale ? Why do you always try to change around what one has said ? Of course nearly every one wanted a copy ! Thats the thing with newies.. no matter if butch or some other big name already has a copy or not. Thought you knew that.

 

So please in future read more carefully what I have said before you quote me and stay off from trying to twist my words around and trying to explain to me how the collectors market works. which in itself is -somehow- almost ...ridiculous. 

Thank you for your clarification of some points. I agree collectors tapes of themselves have little impact, and thinking about it I heard it on a Podcast as it happens. However the fact remains this is hardly a new discovery as is being claimed by some, and has been known about for years. Dave had his initial copies several years ago now.

 

The implication I read into your posts was that demand is created by allnighter plays alone by Top DJs, and whilst there is some truth in that, it's not the whole picture. The allnighter scene is a very small part of the collecting world (as no doubt you know) and that was the point I was trying to emphasise.

 

Sorry if I have once again caused the mighty Marc Forrest offence  .....it is not intended!  

[Guest gordon russell]

Really?! Are you talking about 'The Word Called Love'?? 

If your talking about....soul sounds unlimited.......i,m not sure of the title?......it,s on the JUNE record label

[Guest gordon russell]

Thank you for your clarification of some points. I agree collectors tapes of themselves have little impact, and thinking about it I heard it on a Podcast as it happens. However the fact remains this is hardly a new discovery as is being claimed by some, and has been known about for years. Dave had his initial copies several years ago now.

 

The implication I read into your posts was that demand is created by allnighter plays alone by Top DJs, and whilst there is some truth in that, it's not the whole picture. The allnighter scene is a very small part of the collecting world (as no doubt you know) and that was the point I was trying to emphasise.

 

Sorry if I have once again caused the mighty Marc Forrest offence  .....it is not intended!  

Not meaning anyone in particular.....it all depends on wether you buy tunes regardless of value or lack of,  because you like them ,so want them , or if you buy tunes merely to dj with  or puff out ya chest.....hope that might help ya thought proccess lol

[Corbett80]

If your talking about....soul sounds unlimited.......i,m not sure of the title?......it,s on the JUNE record label

That's the one. I'm surprised we're citing that as a great record against this. That is a classic example of a pretty standard uptempo 60's cut. Flip is a nice slow tune. How that can be a considered far superior to the Sir Joe is beyond me. This is all the wrong way round! This clearly shows it's all about personal taste and not much else? Ho hum.

Edited April 15, 2013 by corbett80

[Chalky]

So you're saying as long as a big named dj plays a tune it,ll be an instant hit/big tune/big indemander ect ect because a lesser known fella/lady nas no cedibility so therefore the record won,t be viewed the same ......don,t understand dj with clout?.......so if killa or kev h or any number of fellas out there who can play a mean set had discovered the parliaments it would,ve been rubbish...umm.....l would go as far as saying if sir joe had been played by anyone who was not a big name.....it would have been dismissed as mediocre......l sometimes wonder if a big name dj played the sh*thouse door at venues everyone would want a sh*thouse door ......

No I'm not far from it. Parliaments you cite took years to break as did Johnny Praye and Tommy and the Derbys even though they had Butch behind them. But someone like Butch, Andy or Mick H would I'm sure you'll agree have s better chsnce of breaking a record, especially Andy or Mick H purely because of the amount of times they DJ.

[Guest gordon russell]

That's the one. I'm surprised we're citing that as a great record against this. That is a classic example of a pretty standard uptempo 60's cut. Flip is a nice slow tune. How that can be a considered far superior to the Sir Joe is beyond me. This is all the wrong way round! This clearly shows it's all about personal taste and not much else? Ho hum.

Yes of course it,s about personal taste  ....that,s what phil really means   it,s not his  or mine really or a lot of other folks,but thats balanced by those who like it.The reason l prefere the one on june is it,s (to me ) a going out super soul dance tune.....i,m not comparing them ...just maybe the context they're played l guess

[Guest gordon russell]

No I'm not far from it. Parliaments you cite took years to break as did Johnny Praye and Tommy and the Derbys even though they had Butch behind them. But someone like Butch, Andy or Mick H would I'm sure you'll agree have s better chsnce of breaking a record, especially Andy or Mick H purely because of the amount of times they DJ.

Get where ya coming from......but to often people cite some tunes as fantastic just becuse these fellas are playing em...when really some are very lame....examples tommy and the derbys and butchs version of the belairs. No one takes away from either of these two fellas both discovered some cracking tunes,but equally the odd duff un...which to be fair is bound to happen and matters not a jot really as long as we,re prepared to recognise that.....and still have a good night     

[Marc Forrest]

Thank you for your clarification of some points. I agree collectors tapes of themselves have little impact, and thinking about it I heard it on a Podcast as it happens. However the fact remains this is hardly a new discovery as is being claimed by some, and has been known about for years. Dave had his initial copies several years ago now.

 

The implication I read into your posts was that demand is created by allnighter plays alone by Top DJs, and whilst there is some truth in that, it's not the whole picture. The allnighter scene is a very small part of the collecting world (as no doubt you know) and that was the point I was trying to emphasise.

 

Sorry if I have once again caused the mighty Marc Forrest offence  .....it is not intended!  

cheers for claryfying that up Steve..your words indeed came across to me that way.."..where I think you continually get it wrong Marc" and such.. but anyway, all fine   

[Chalky]

Get where ya coming from......but to often people cite some tunes as fantastic just becuse these fellas are playing em...when really some are very lame....examples tommy and the derbys and butchs version of the belairs. No one takes away from either of these two fellas both discovered some cracking tunes,but equally the odd duff un...which to be fair is bound to happen and matters not a jot really as long as we,re prepared to recognise that.....and still have a good night

Tommy & the Derby's fantastic IMO, loved it since first heard it early 90's. but yes every DJ has had their share of duffers, except Phil though, he has better taste than us all

[Quinvy]

Many a true word spoken in jest Chalky.

Makes me laugh when the experts on here say that all the stuff played at Burnley is well known to all. Funny how no bugger ever played it until we did. Even Butch would play Burnley records after each of his visits to Burnley. I remember going down to the 100 club the week after he had guested for me and he went on and played half my set. He even took to playing some of the cheapies that Karl was hammering. Also it's a fact that when Burnley was on every month, the demand and prices of big Burnley plays went through the roof.

And I will meet either Ian C or Chalky at the next Burnley when Cliff Camfield is on, and they can tell me what all the records he plays are. I would love to know. I still don't know what half the records were that were played over the three and a half years that we ran it. Cliff covered everything and so did Karl come to that.

[Quinvy]

That's the one. I'm surprised we're citing that as a great record against this. That is a classic example of a pretty standard uptempo 60's cut. Flip is a nice slow tune. How that can be a considered far superior to the Sir Joe is beyond me. This is all the wrong way round! This clearly shows it's all about personal taste and not much else? Ho hum.

Is there a sound file anywhere? I'll probably love that seeing as you hate it.

[Quinvy]

I like it, dance to it,haven't got it, want it.I don't care for the opinion of maggot drowners, chair chasers, ecky teetotallers, horlick drinkers and book me and I'll turnuppers.Best wishes, John

Yes but you also want that dreadful Soul Dynamics 45 so you've obviously had a taste bypass John.

Love Phil.

[Quinvy]

No I'm not far from it. Parliaments you cite took years to break as did Johnny Praye and Tommy and the Derbys even though they had Butch behind them. But someone like Butch, Andy or Mick H would I'm sure you'll agree have s better chsnce of breaking a record, especially Andy or Mick H purely because of the amount of times they DJ.

I'm surprised at that. The first time I heard Parliaments and Johnny Praye I loved them both.

[Chalky]

I'm surprised at that. The first time I heard Parliaments and Johnny Praye I loved them both.

Johnny Praye had been covered up since the 90's, I used to pester him for it every time I saw him out.

[jocko]

. I remember going down to the 100 club the week after he had guested for me and he went on and played half my set. 

 

F**k me, the best line yet! Can I buy your Diane Lewis and your Just Brothers. 

 

Good comedy and all that. Give up while you are behind.

[Guest john s]

 

 

It's true that not long after I got back Ady Pountain did find a copy at a Bristol record fair for maybe £20, Malayka was standing behind him when he got it. But that has nothing to do with it's value, he just got lucky. 

 

Actually, I don't think I charged him that much - he might have argued the price down due to condition...