Flowers - For Real

[Jaco]

Who, where, and when.

 

You know the usual stuff.

 

Ta.

[John Reed]

Probably first played in some record shop in the US in 1976 and it probably went along the lines of....

 

Customer: “Hey, what ya got new in?”

 

Store Owner:” Got this new single by a group called Flowers”

 

Customer: “okay, give it a spin…”

 

Store Owner plays record

 

Customer: “its okay…..”

 

Store Owner: “you’re not the first one to say that, do you want it?”

 

Customer: “Nah, I think I’ll give it a miss.  Have you got Candi Staton — Young Heart Runs Free?"

 

Store Owner: “Yep.”

 

Store Owner puts Candi by the till

 

Store Owner:  “Are you sure you don’t want the Flowers one?”

 

Customer: “Yep, I’m sure”

 

Store Owner: “It’s not a big seller, I think I’ll put this lot down in the basement, hopefully one day someone will want em……”

 

Customer pays and leaves the shop

 

Store owner takes the batch of Flowers and puts them in the basement and forgets they’re there…….

Edited April 11, 2013 by John Reed

[Davetay]

Probably first played in some record shop in the US in 1976 and it probably went along the lines of....

 

Customer: “Hey, what ya got new in?”

 

Store Owner:” Got this new single by a group called Flowers”

 

Customer: “okay, give it a spin…”

 

Store Owner plays record

 

Customer: “its okay…..”

 

Store Owner: “you’re not the first one to say that, do you want it?”

 

Customer: “Nah, I think I’ll give it a miss.  Have you got Candi Staton — Young Heart Runs Free?

 

Store Owner: “Yep.”

 

Store Owner puts Candi on by the till

 

Store Owner:  “Are you sure you don’t want the Flowers one?”

 

Customer: “Yep, I’m sure”

 

Store Owner: “it’s not a big seller, I think I’ll put this lot down in the basement, hopefully one day someone will want em……”

 

Customer pays and leaves the shop

 

Store owner takes the batch of Flowers and puts them in the basement and forgets they’re there…….

John, all you need to remember now, which store owner put a hundred count box in his basement.

[jocko]

I remember it from early Southport and I think Tom Jackson at Kilt Newmains. Dreamy sound for a dreamy time!

Suspect some of the original modern guys might have more info

It's stayed pretty rare, and despite what people say Roy Ayers version is nowhere near as good.

[Paul McKay]

My understanding is that he got an album deal with (Polydor?) and had to shelve the Flowers project as part of the deal.

[boba]

I enjoyed the story, but in reality it probably wouldn't have even made it to the store, and if he got the store to carry it it would have only been a few copies. if nobody bought them it would make it to a cheap cut out bin where a few people bought them for a quarter or something like that. then one day john anderson or neil rushton or someone similar came along and got all the copies from the producer and exported them. plus have you ever been in a record store where the store owner tells you what to buy? customers come in and ask for things.

[Roburt]

 have you ever been in a record store where the store owner tells you what to buy? customers come in and ask for things.

Bob,

            Dave Godin 'told' you what you should be buying every time you went into Soul City Record Shop.

[Steve Plumb]

From my memory on it, Richard Searling got it out of Ian Levine's collection (via Bernie Golding i think?) when he sold up the first time. Richard only seemed to play it originally at afternoon sessions at early weekenders ('85/'86 ish) as that sound hadn't made it's way oop north properly by then? He was playing it with Arnold Blair, Daybreak (everything man) etc. Obviously the more he played it the more we all fell in love with it and the rest is history!

 

I remember searching all over for it and one day on the phone to Soul Bowl (about summat else on the list) I asked John for this record by Flowers? He said 'It's on this week's list' to which i said 'it's not!'. He then pointed out that it had been spelt wrong on the list as 'Flares'. And there it was BUT it was a wapping £60 which was much more than i'd ever paid for a record ever! Suffice to say that i bought it and ate dry bread for a month but it was worth it!

 

Think the reason it's obscure is that Richard Flowers did indeed pull it once Roy Ayers (who was a major Black Music artist at the time) decided to record it for his album.

 

Hope this is of use?

 

Cheers

Steve

Edited April 11, 2013 by Steve Plumb

[Guest Johnny One Trout]

I just love this record and have since i first heard it, i even love the "moody" 12" version that Mark Res did for his sampler album...

 

John

[Simsy]

I remember telling my mate (who was a big fan of the tune) it was in a list for £150 in 1990. He rightfully snapped it up.

 

What is it now, four figures? If not that, then not far off.

 

Great record.

[Harrogatesoul]

One just gone through Kidinquisitives ebay sales @ $1300.. dream tune and one that knocked my socks off on first hearing it. Still does. What's the other 45 from him? Was there some debate as to its originality? (Or am i thinking of something else in that mould). Is he still around?

[John Reed]

Think the reason it's obscure is that Richard Flowers did indeed pull it once Roy Ayers (who was a major Black Music artist at the time) decided to record it for his album.

 

Steve,

I'm not 100% convinced on that theory as the single has a 1976 date and the "Step Into Your Life" LP is 1978.  Roy Ayers released 2 Polydor LPs between those dates (Lifeline and Lets Do it). So I would have thought it would have been on one of those two rather than Step Into Your Life

Edited April 11, 2013 by John Reed

[Steve G]

Richard Flowers also recorded on another label beforehand, a blue thing on styrene, and not brilliant. I have it somewhere in the lock up.

[John Reed]

Richard Flowers and The Southern Fatback Co - Do it on Flowing East, agreed not all that good

[Lfcjunkie]

One just gone through Kidinquisitives ebay sales @ $1300.. dream tune and one that knocked my socks off on first hearing it. Still does. What's the other 45 from him? Was there some debate as to its originality? (Or am i thinking of something else in that mould). Is he still around?

you maybe thinking of "we can make it happen" on lax as well great record as well not as in demand "for real" by a long shot but just as soulful imo

dave L

[Ted Massey]

One of my mistakes paid 250 for it and a few years later sold it on here for 350 to some undeserving person    a week later it went for 1250 quid on ebay

[Harrogatesoul]

you maybe thinking of "we can make it happen" on lax as well great record as well not as in demand "for real" by a long shot but just as soulful imo

dave L

 

That must be it Dave thanks. Solid centre 45 i'm thinking?

[Steve G]

Yes "We can make it happen" was the one re-pressed with a large hole. Originals are solid centre as you say.

 

That must be it Dave thanks. Solid centre 45 i'm thinking?

[Harrogatesoul]

Cheers Steve - Knew there was something re-released/pressed etc from him.

[jocko]

From my memory on it, Richard Searling got it out of Ian Levine's collection (via Bernie Golding i think?) when he sold up the first time. Richard only seemed to play it originally at afternoon sessions at early weekenders ('85/'86 ish) as that sound hadn't made it's way oop north properly by then? He was playing it with Arnold Blair, Daybreak (everything man) etc. Obviously the more he played it the more we all fell in love with it and the rest is history!

 

I remember searching all over for it and one day on the phone to Soul Bowl (about summat else on the list) I asked John for this record by Flowers? He said 'It's on this week's list' to which i said 'it's not!'. He then pointed out that it had been spelt wrong on the list as 'Flares'. And there it was BUT it was a wapping £60 which was much more than i'd ever paid for a record ever! Suffice to say that i bought it and ate dry bread for a month but it was worth it!

 

Think the reason it's obscure is that Richard Flowers did indeed pull it once Roy Ayers (who was a major Black Music artist at the time) decided to record it for his album.

 

Hope this is of use?

 

Cheers

Steve

 I would have put it a couple of years later for the afternoon sessions and early weekenders, but that is spot on for Bernie's sales. Not sure how long before he sold them all.

 

Slight aside on meeting Bernie recently I reminded him of time when we had met previously (how could he forget!) around that time and how he had invited me to look at records in early days via Gaz Kellet, he said me and 5000 others have since said that!! How many missed opportunities we will never know,

[John Reed]

Isnt "We Can Make I Happen" solid centre vs. dinked all smoke an mirrors anyway, as both were retrospective releases as the solid centre wasnt around at the time of "For Real" was released.

Edited April 11, 2013 by John Reed

[Steve G]

Isnt "We Can Make I Happen" solid centre vs. dinked all smoke an mirrors anyway, as both were retrospective releases as the solid centre wasnt around at the time of "For Real" was released.

 

Hi John,

I am not convinced by that. Certainly "For real" was "discovered" first. As to when they were all pressed, I am not sure. West Coast you see, once we move beyond Monarch pressings it all is beyond me.....

[John Reed]

Hi John,

I am not convinced by that. Certainly "For real" was "discovered" first. As to when they were all pressed, I am not sure. West Coast you see, once we move beyond Monarch pressings it all is beyond me.....

 

Steve,

I may not have been clear in my last post.  The "both were retrospective releases" statement was in relation to the solid centre and dinked versions of WCMIH, and not about For Real.

Edited April 11, 2013 by John Reed

[Steve Plumb]

'We must make it happen' definitely didn't come out in the 70's!

The solid centre copies were test pressings of the large centre release from around '89/'90

Think they were legit and the story goes that 10 solid centre copies were sent over by Richard Flowers with a view to 500 'large centre' copies coming later. Think the solid centre copies were offered at £90 each at the time? Then i think Rod at Voices got the first 25-50 'large centre' copies and knocked them out at a fiver each, with a view to the other 400+ coming later BUT (the story goes) that someone in Japan bought the remaining stock, thus Rod never got any more copies and it became an instant rarity and no one saw hide nor hair of the 400 that supposedly went to Japan?

Can anyone add owt else to this, as i'm sure i didn't dream it?

Cheers

Steve 

[Steve Plumb]

Steve,

I'm not 100% convinced on that theory as the single has a 1976 date and the "Step Into Your Life" LP is 1978.  Roy Ayers released 2 Polydor LPs between those dates (Lifeline and Lets Do it). So I would have thought it would have been on one of those two rather than Step Into Your Life

Think that's a fair point John?

Maybe the original 45 simply bombed and Roy Ayers simply recorded it a couple of years later?

.........or maybe if Flowers was made in '76 and promoted in 'say '77, then Roy Ayers could have heard it in '77, bought the track, got the original pulled, then recorded it for himself and the LP eventually came out in '78 

Phew! Even Sherlock Holmes would have struggled with that one but that's my story and i'm sticking to it     

[Benji]

Just wondering, am I the only one who thinks "For real" is a bit boring? I mean, all nice and that. But it just dribbles along, doesn't flow....

[Steve G]

It's become boring since just about every DJ in the land added it to their sets as a "mandatory play" regardless of time or place.....

[Simsy]

Granted it ain't a peppy dancer, but I think boring is a bit harsh.

 

It's an atmospheric builder with a very soulful vocal. That's why it's 800 sheets to a grand.

[Daved]

I agree Benji. I've never liked it much myself. I much prefer "We Can Make It Happen"

[Guest drewid]

Much prefer "we can make it happen"

[phillyDaveG]

I agree Benji. I've never liked it much myself. I much prefer "We Can Make It Happen"

Me too.

[Benji]

Played both Flowers tracks on Youtube to remind myself what they sound like. Have to revise my previous statement. "For real" isn't as dull as I remembered it. Infact it's quite a good production.

 

In contrast "we can make it happen" is a dull and mediocre song. Sorry to everyone who likes it.

[Glynthornhill]

Richard Flowers also had a hand in production at that time

He is credited on the Wilson Williams tasty 1970 's ABC album.

[Jordirip]

I can't say I'm crazy about either of them but For Real is the stronger of the two for me, with a nice atmosphere, but I think the vocals are weak,

 

Jordi

[boba]

as long as this is the flowers trivia thread, the LAX is a reference to the los angeles international airport, which is the design for the A:

 

[Docfish]

Richard Flowers also wrote and arranged a record for Jewel Akens on the icepack label called "what would you do?".

[Steve G]

as long as this is the flowers trivia thread, the LAX is a reference to the los angeles international airport, which is the design for the A:

 

 

For those that have never been to L.A An iconic control tower.....I seem to remember Flowers at one point had an office just round the corner from the airport.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Steve G

[Wrongcrowd]

Craig Moerer was one of the first dealers to offer "For Real", in the mid to late 80's, during the time when his lists were airmailed letter/envelopes. I can't remeber the exact price at the time, but something between $30 and $60. I took around 10 copies from him at the time and sold them on, mostly to freinds. Because it seemed to be an 'available' 45 at the time, I never considered it to be rare or valuable, and bought it because it's such a great record. Later to be amazed at the price it has since fetched.

 

Despite hearing it out almost every weekend in more recent years, since it became s modern soul standard, I still love it, the production quality is as close to perfection as I've ever heard. Yeah, it's played to death, and it should be rested, but you can't deny the quality of the tune.

 

I bought "We Can Make It Happen" blind from Rod for a pittance when they first turned up, and thought it was average to good, just because it's hard not to compare it to "For Real". I'm sure I'd rate it higher otherwise.

 

It's too easy to dismiss real quality as yesterday's music for the sake of something shiny and new......and quite often it's the wrong thing to do.

[boba]

this thread is disappointing because i always assumed it was like a $3 record back in the day (like almost anything else) and that it temporarily has gone for ridiculous prices. seems like it will stay rare / expensive and I won't get a copy without winning the lotto.

[The Tempest]

 

Tam Jackson was the Dj that introduced this tune to my ears following his appearances at Alex Lowes Berwick 1st Up North Berwick weekender , before it moved to a one off at morecambe then a stint at southport . Great record and as previously stated such a refreshing modern tune to be played at that time   

[George G]

as long as this is the flowers trivia thread, the LAX is a reference to the los angeles international airport, which is the design for the A:

 

For a little more explanation, LAX is the three letter abbreviation used for the main Los Angeles airport. Most every world airport had a unique three letter name which was used for radar tracking to luggage tags. In the US, these three letter codes have passed into slang lexicon for many towns, CLE for Cleveland has been used for many different name variations. I've seem Atlanta called ATL etc.

[Mark68]

Sold my copy in the early 9ts for £150 (via gary dennis to a school teacher in upminster...so he told me), I think I paid about £20-30 from John Anderson, it wasn't on a soul bowl list but I asked John about it and he had a copy I could have. I thought I had a result getting £150 and would never of imagined it to increase in value over the years as there were a fair few copies around.
I sold it as I was getting bored of hearing it at most soul events in the late 8ts, it was certainly getting hammered more than it is nowadays. So many dj's were playing the same records week in week out and their sets were so predictable; other records that you couldn't escape back then I also sold were Melvin Moore, The Differences and countless others, some I regret selling and some not so.
I think Flowers (and many other big records from the modern scene) have been getting a revival due to new collectors surfacing, particularly in the States where they would not of had the exposure to these records like we did here in the UK. 

[Geordiejohnson]

'We must make it happen' definitely didn't come out in the 70's!

The solid centre copies were test pressings of the large centre release from around '89/'90

Think they were legit and the story goes that 10 solid centre copies were sent over by Richard Flowers with a view to 500 'large centre' copies coming later. Think the solid centre copies were offered at £90 each at the time? Then i think Rod at Voices got the first 25-50 'large centre' copies and knocked them out at a fiver each, with a view to the other 400+ coming later BUT (the story goes) that someone in Japan bought the remaining stock, thus Rod never got any more copies and it became an instant rarity and no one saw hide nor hair of the 400 that supposedly went to Japan?

Can anyone add owt else to this, as i'm sure i didn't dream it?

Cheers

Steve 

 

Hi Steve Sean Hampsey knows more about this but your nearly right, there is an old post about this record, where the outcome was that the solid centres are the real ones which ended up in Rods hands with the large centred ones being pressed by ROD & voices, probably hence why the 400 japanese one have never appeared as its probably urban myth, bit barmey when you think a solid centre one went for about £25 a year or so ago as people thought that was a boot...someone got a bargain

 

But its nice to see even tunes like this have more mystique than some rare 60's

 

 

geeoooooordie

[Steve Plumb]

Hi Steve Sean Hampsey knows more about this but your nearly right, there is an old post about this record, where the outcome was that the solid centres are the real ones which ended up in Rods hands with the large centred ones being pressed by ROD & voices, probably hence why the 400 japanese one have never appeared as its probably urban myth, bit barmey when you think a solid centre one went for about £25 a year or so ago as people thought that was a boot...someone got a bargain

 

But its nice to see even tunes like this have more mystique than some rare 60's

 

 

geeoooooordie

Are you saying the solid centre copies are from the 70's and not the late 80's test pressings of the large centre 45's?

I'm not sure that's correct, although I am willing to be persuaded :-)

I'm sure Rod said he didn't get more than the first shipment of 25/50?

Always was a mystery why no more came, especially after Rod had knocked the first lot out for a fiver each?

[Guest Nick Harrison]

"For Real" played by Arthur Fenn 1987 and 1988 during his nationwide and local sets, which included those earlier Blackpool soul weekenders.

 

Agree with Jocko a dreamy sound, this record epitomises "two step", when played along side Arthur's other offerings of Jamal Trice, Sylvers, Five o' Clock, Lee Morris ( I Have Love For You), Sam Butler, John And Arthur Simms, The Final Decisions (You Are My Sunshine) and Universial Love.

 

Dreamy days !

[Jim Ohara]

 

Tam Jackson was the Dj that introduced this tune to my ears following his appearances at Alex Lowes Berwick 1st Up North Berwick weekender , before it moved to a one off at morecambe then a stint at southport . Great record and as previously stated such a refreshing modern tune to be played at that time   

Agree

This was the first time I heard it at the Berwick Soul Weekender played by Tom Jackson

Always liked it, very soulful indeed

[Kidinquisitive]

"For Real" played by Arthur Fenn 1987 and 1988 during his nationwide and local sets, which included those earlier Blackpool soul weekenders.

 

Agree with Jocko a dreamy sound, this record epitomises "two step", when played along side Arthur's other offerings of Jamal Trice, Sylvers, Five o' Clock, Lee Morris ( I Have Love For You), Sam Butler, John And Arthur Simms, The Final Decisions (You Are My Sunshine) and Universial Love.

 

Dreamy days !

 

Just curious, which tune by the Sylvers?

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Just curious, which tune by the Sylvers?

 

"Diamonds Are Rare".

[Guest Nick Harrison]

Just curious, which tune by the Sylvers?

 

Was the B side Diamonds Are Rare (recorded 1978 ?) which was released on a Casablanca 45 during 1979.  The top side was "Forever Yours". 

 

Hope that helps one's inquisitiveness .

 

[Geordiejohnson]

Are you saying the solid centre copies are from the 70's and not the late 80's test pressings of the large centre 45's?

I'm not sure that's correct, although I am willing to be persuaded :-)

I'm sure Rod said he didn't get more than the first shipment of 25/50?

Always was a mystery why no more came, especially after Rod had knocked the first lot out for a fiver each?

 

thats what was intimated in the original thread on here eons ago apparently the solid were the test press

 

 

geeooooordie