Receiving A Damaged Record

[Steve L]

Just had a record come via royal mail signed for. I noticed the outside of the mailer had an indentation along one edge and sure enough the record, whilst in otherwise lovely condition, has a small crack in the edge. There weren't any stiffeners inside with the record though!

Is it the senders responsibility to claim compensation?

Should I just ask to return and let him deal with it? Any advice?

[pikeys dog]

Take a photo of the packing then send it all back to the seller for them to claim back (i'd send it back recorded).

 

If you bought it through eBay, there is a section where you can make a claim back through them (Item not as described/damaged, in the same section as a non receipt claim)

[Pete S]

Also ask him why he didn't put any cardboard in there!

[Mark Bicknell]

The seller/sender of the record has to put the claim in as he/she will have the paperwork, takes an age though mate to get compensation payment but he will get it, also if there were no stiffners then it's down to him.

[Kegsy]

The seller/sender of the record has to put the claim in as he/she will have the paperwork, takes an age though mate to get compensation payment but he will get it, also if there were no stiffners then it's down to him.

 

 

Not Correct.

Either the seller or the buyer can claim.

I'm going through this at the moment, and its actually better if the buyer claims.

This is becuase proof of value,i.e. what you paid for it is required.

Since the buyer has the proof Paypal etc its the best way.

if the seller claims he cant cant claim what he sold it for, he has

to claim what he bought it for, which could have been years ago.

Kegsy

[Mark Bicknell]

Not Correct.

Either the seller or the buyer can claim.

I'm going through this at the moment, and its actually better if the buyer claims.

This is becuase proof of value,i.e. what you paid for it is required.

Since the buyer has the proof Paypal etc its the best way.

if the seller claims he cant cant claim what he sold it for, he has

to claim what he bought it for, which could have been years ago.

Kegsy

I stand corrected I thought whoever paid for the postage had to claim, my mistake.

[pikeys dog]

Not Correct.

Either the seller or the buyer can claim.

I'm going through this at the moment, and its actually better if the buyer claims.

This is becuase proof of value,i.e. what you paid for it is required.

Since the buyer has the proof Paypal etc its the best way.

if the seller claims he cant cant claim what he sold it for, he has

to claim what he bought it for, which could have been years ago.

Kegsy

 

 

They must have changed this in the last five tears, since the last time I had to claim on behalf of the buyer, which was a major ballache, as they had to send it back to me.

[Kegsy]

I stand corrected I thought whoever paid for the postage had to claim, my mistake.

 

 

Now if you could just Chelsea's defence I would be a happy man.

I have three in my dream team and they are not doing

the business at the moment.

 

Kegsy

[Chris L]

Just checked, there is a 14 day option but you must make sure that's in auction page before posting it.

[Kjw]

Not Correct.

Either the seller or the buyer can claim.

I'm going through this at the moment, and its actually better if the buyer claims.

This is becuase proof of value,i.e. what you paid for it is required.

Since the buyer has the proof Paypal etc its the best way.

if the seller claims he cant cant claim what he sold it for, he has

to claim what he bought it for, which could have been years ago.

Kegsy

 

It's better for the buyer if the seller claims - it's not the buyer's fault it's damaged so why should they have to go through all the hassle of filling in the paperwork and arguing the case with Royal Mail. Also, on the claim form you have to state where the item was posted from, plus the date and time etc - only the seller has this information.

 

Royal Mail will always try it on and ask the seller for proof as to what they paid for the item. Their first line of defence is to throw out the claim and send a standard reply along with a book of 6 stamps as a good will gesture. If you persevere and send them a reply along with a copy of the paypal transaction showing what you have had to reimburse the buyer (because of Royal Mail's incompetence) they will then cough up with the compensation.

 

It's time Royal Mail were taken to task by some governing authority - they are too happy to take the additional cost from their customers for recorded and special delivery etc but go out of their way to make things difficult when they have to pay out.

[Ged Parker]

It's better for the buyer if the seller claims - it's not the buyer's fault it's damaged so why should they have to go through all the hassle of filling in the paperwork and arguing the case with Royal Mail. Also, on the claim form you have to state where the item was posted from, plus the date and time etc - only the seller has this information.

 

Royal Mail will always try it on and ask the seller for proof as to what they paid for the item. Their first line of defence is to throw out the claim and send a standard reply along with a book of 6 stamps as a good will gesture. If you persevere and send them a reply along with a copy of the paypal transaction showing what you have had to reimburse the buyer (because of Royal Mail's incompetence) they will then cough up with the compensation.

 

It's time Royal Mail were taken to task by some governing authority - they are too happy to take the additional cost from their customers for recorded and special delivery etc but go out of their way to make things difficult when they have to pay out.

 

I disagree for the reasons already stated by others above.

 

It is simple to send the proof of postage to the buyer and they have everything they need to make a claim.

 

I sold a record a while ago that was fine when sent and arrived damaged and this was the process I followed.  The buyer though was put off making a claim by the post office so I reluctantly agreed to make the claim and take on the difficulty of trying to prove what I paid for something I'd had for 30 years.

 

I asked that the buyer send me the record all the original packaging so I could demonstrate it was well packaged and send me back the proof of postage and I would do them a full refund.

 

The buyer in their infinate wisdom sent me just the address part of the mailer that they had torn from the front.  No stiffeners and none of the sides of the package and crucially no record.

 

Needless to say I had little to prove either the record was damaged at all, or it was well packaged as the buyer had kept the record and actually detroyed any evidence that I'd packed it well.

 

I cut my loses and sent him a partial refund losing out in the process.  It was easier than f***ing about at a time when work was manic but not something I'd do again in a hurry.

 

It may not be the buyers fault if a record get damaged but I know it wasn't mine.  If the buyer pays for special delivery then it is they that are paying to have it covered not the seller.

[Steve L]

Got in touch with the seller, apparently he thinks its ok to post without stiffeners as the record was in a strong card sleeve

So the fault is with some "hoof fisted postie" as he put it

[pikeys dog]

Got in touch with the seller, apparently he thinks its ok to post without stiffeners as the record was in a strong card sleeve

So the fault is with some "hoof fisted postie" as he put it

 

 

There's guidelines on what constitutes 'suitable' packing on the Royal Mail website, and his would not meet that standard.

 

Here you go, should be on here somewhere...

 

https://www.royalmail.com/personal/help-and-support/A-Z-guide-on-wrapping-and-packaging%20      about half way down

[Markw]

It's never happened to me (yet), but I am really curious as to what sort of f*ckwit sends a record in the post without cardboard stiffeners? 

[Dave Rimmer]

It may not be the buyers fault if a record get damaged but I know it wasn't mine.  If the buyer pays for special delivery then it is they that are paying to have it covered not the seller.

 

I completely disagree with you on this Ged.

 

My view is simple. Until you have supplied what the buyer has paid for, in an acceptable condition, you have not completed the transaction. So if the PO damage the record before it reaches the buyer, he has not received what he has paid for in an acceptable condition, so it's still your responsibility to sort it out.

 

If you were running a pub, and a keg of beer was delivered and was obviously empty, would you accept it and say you would sort it out ? Of course not, you'd send it back to the brewery and expect either a refund or replacement. And the brewery wouldn't expect you to accept an empty keg, or try and make you sort it out with the delivery company would they. So why is it any different with a record.

[Steve L]

Issue sorted now, thanks for all the comments

[Ged Parker]

I completely disagree with you on this Ged.

 

My view is simple. Until you have supplied what the buyer has paid for, in an acceptable condition, you have not completed the transaction. So if the PO damage the record before it reaches the buyer, he has not received what he has paid for in an acceptable condition, so it's still your responsibility to sort it out.

 

If you were running a pub, and a keg of beer was delivered and was obviously empty, would you accept it and say you would sort it out ? Of course not, you'd send it back to the brewery and expect either a refund or replacement. And the brewery wouldn't expect you to accept an empty keg, or try and make you sort it out with the delivery company would they. So why is it any different with a record.

 

I can see that as an example but I'm paying a brewery a set price for a keg of beer and they are employing a company to deliver it.  If a record buyer wants to pay for special delivery then he is paying royal mail for that service for that service and me for the record.

 

This is all semantics I know but in my practical experience the buyer in my case refused to return the record for the full refund I offered as soon as he raised the issue. 

 

It was a long term want apparently but he'd accept another record in lieu of the damage.

 

In your example what if the brewery deliver the keg and I then ring them later and say it arrived empty?

 

What if I then refuse to return the 'empty' keg but just want a discount or some extra product delivered free?

 

I know full well what the brewery would say and I suspect you do too.

 

The buyer eventually; at my suggestion; said he would accept me sending the proof of postage so he could make a claim and keep the record and any refund he got after all how am I supposed to put in a claim for damage without the 'damaged' article. 

 

He then decided I should make the claim and give him a partial refund and the record.  I suspect the hurdles that Royal Mail put in the way of a claim did their job.

 

So when asked to repackage the record in its original packaging and post it back in a jiffy bag with the proof of postage he just ripped the mailer to bits and sent only part of the front with the address and special delivery sticker and NO record.

 

It was like he was doing everything he could to prevent an effective claim being made.

 

The record may or may not have been cracked as he claimed, he didn't want a full refund when offered and was unwilling to return the record or even the complete mailer.

 

If I'm expected to sort it out after that lot the buyer can go take a running jump.  I can't believe I gave him a £100 refund just 'cause I was too busy to carry on being messed about and it had dragged on for weeks by then.  He probably laughed his socks off.

 

I thought I'd put the issue behind me but writing this has made me want to kick the cat into next week. (and I don't even have a cat)

[Dave Rimmer]

I can see that as an example but I'm paying a brewery a set price for a keg of beer and they are employing a company to deliver it.  If a record buyer wants to pay for special delivery then he is paying royal mail for that service for that service and me for the record.

 

This is all semantics I know but in my practical experience the buyer in my case refused to return the record for the full refund I offered as soon as he raised the issue. 

 

It was a long term want apparently but he'd accept another record in lieu of the damage.

 

In your example what if the brewery deliver the keg and I then ring them later and say it arrived empty?

 

What if I then refuse to return the 'empty' keg but just want a discount or some extra product delivered free?

 

I know full well what the brewery would say and I suspect you do too.

 

The buyer eventually; at my suggestion; said he would accept me sending the proof of postage so he could make a claim and keep the record and any refund he got after all how am I supposed to put in a claim for damage without the 'damaged' article. 

 

He then decided I should make the claim and give him a partial refund and the record.  I suspect the hurdles that Royal Mail put in the way of a claim did their job.

 

So when asked to repackage the record in its original packaging and post it back in a jiffy bag with the proof of postage he just ripped the mailer to bits and sent only part of the front with the address and special delivery sticker and NO record.

 

It was like he was doing everything he could to prevent an effective claim being made.

 

The record may or may not have been cracked as he claimed, he didn't want a full refund when offered and was unwilling to return the record or even the complete mailer.

 

If I'm expected to sort it out after that lot the buyer can go take a running jump.  I can't believe I gave him a £100 refund just 'cause I was too busy to carry on being messed about and it had dragged on for weeks by then.  He probably laughed his socks off.

 

I thought I'd put the issue behind me but writing this has made me want to kick the cat into next week. (and I don't even have a cat)

 

Given those circumstances I can undersatnd your frustration.

 

However, that case aside, the buyer isn't paying Royal Mail to deliver it. You are the person who enters into the contract with Royal Mail, not the buyer because you are the person who pays Royal Mail for the service and receives the receipt of postage. Whether the buyer sent you the money prior to you posting the record is immaterial, because you are the person who physically pays for the postage.

[Ged Parker]

Given those circumstances I can undersatnd your frustration.

 

However, that case aside, the buyer isn't paying Royal Mail to deliver it. You are the person who enters into the contract with Royal Mail, not the buyer because you are the person who pays Royal Mail for the service and receives the receipt of postage. Whether the buyer sent you the money prior to you posting the record is immaterial, because you are the person who physically pays for the postage.

 

You're right of course in legal and technical sense and from a 'customer service' point of view too.

 

But all other things being equal I still think it's easier for the person with the record to make the claim and posting a proof of postage slip is much easier and less risky than sending a damaged record the other way.

 

Just my opinion.