Jim G Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 OK Boys and Girls, time to get guessing, what will this go for?! A mint Gwen Owens.
Peter99 Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 OK Boys and Girls, time to get guessing, what will this go for?! A mint Gwen Owens. I have no idea Jim - it's a fantastic record though. I do know that. Peter
Tezza Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 Fabulous record. Much better than Eddie Parker and I suspect a little more rare ?? Gone went for 6,000 + so ???
Jim G Posted March 14, 2013 Author Posted March 14, 2013 Eddie Parker went for £8200, so as this is a JM auction, this might go higher than that, especially as it is at £1524 already.
Tony Smith Posted March 14, 2013 Posted March 14, 2013 What did the last copy John auctioned go for?, it was only a couple of years back, perhaps someone can make a chart?
Olliewtf Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 ive gotta say listening to that full clip is a real treat as ive never heard the track so clearly... its almost like a different record. are there any remastered versions? never heard the outta sight reissue is that from the master tapes or??
Dave Pinch Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) probably just me that thinks its a racket...a very messy. record.i dont think itll do as well as eddie parker and i would say more original copies than eddie but most do suffer from jumping or distortion,,didnt gwen fetch a handful of copies with her when she was over? Edited March 15, 2013 by dave pinch 2
Guest sharmo 1 Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Last week at Prestatyn I was offered five grand for mine of a very well known dj .In all fareness that's a lot of dough however I paid either £60 or £80 for mine I'd never be able to get another so I'll keep it.so on that basis the person that offered me 5 grand last week will probably go to 5 grand so it would appear five grand plus.Regards Mrs.Velgo.
Ted Massey Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 This one on mannys list is perfect no jumps or distortion unlike mine and sy's . they can have mine for 5k 1
Jim G Posted March 15, 2013 Author Posted March 15, 2013 I think the condition and the fact it does not jump will push the price really high on this. Way out my league, but fascinating to watch how it will go!
Popular Post George G Posted March 15, 2013 Popular Post Posted March 15, 2013 Dunno if this has been mentioned before....When I hear G.O. I think of this bass line - I think the JSYW(aN) writers may have had this way back in their minds..... 6
Olliewtf Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 haha thats uncanny how have i never spotted that before?!
Pete S Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Gwen Owens. Great record but hardly something to get in a tizzy over.
Andy Rix Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Scans of the Gwen Owens 45 ..... Jerry Williams put me in touch with Gwen and then Rob did all of the talking that resulted in her appearance at Prestatyn She brought 4 copies of the record with her and as I recall they were all pretty mint. 3 were sold immediately and we kept 1 which was eventually sold. I can't recall where they went. What was interesting was that this was almost certainly a second pressing. Slightly lighter label and mastered at very very low volume. I rarely played it out as you had to really turn the volume up on the decks. I'd always believed that the stock had been destroyed due to the 'skip' which was probably due to the record being mastered at high volume (happy to be corrected on the technical stuff). So it was amazing to discover there had been a second run. The copy up for auction looks like the second pressing to me Andy 2
Pete S Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Scans of the Gwen Owens 45 ..... Jerry Williams put me in touch with Gwen and then Rob did all of the talking that resulted in her appearance at Prestatyn She brought 4 copies of the record with her and as I recall they were all pretty mint. 3 were sold immediately and we kept 1 which was eventually sold. I can't recall where they went. What was interesting was that this was almost certainly a second pressing. Slightly lighter label and mastered at very very low volume. I rarely played it out as you had to really turn the volume up on the decks. I'd always believed that the stock had been destroyed due to the 'skip' which was probably due to the record being mastered at high volume (happy to be corrected on the technical stuff). So it was amazing to discover there had been a second run. The copy up for auction looks like the second pressing to me Andy They presumably did that one to replace the faulty one by which time the momentum had gone, hence it's rarity. Though maybe that labels distribution wasn't too clever - Two Plus Two springs to mind.
bri pinch Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) probably just me that thinks its a racket...a very messy. record.i dont think itll do as well as eddie parker and i would say more original copies than eddie but most do suffer from jumping or distortion,,didnt gwen fetch a handful of copies with her when she was over? No your not on your own Bro..i too think its a duffer, never known what the fuss is about https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=2812782775057&set=o.232058326922913&type=1&theater best thing what could happen to the record for me Edited March 15, 2013 by bri pinch
Guest Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Gwen Owens. Great record but hardly something to get in a tizzy over. Errr....Pete,are you being a little underwhelmed of some sorts..... ? Taken in the context,of this tune's history,rarity,and the fact this particular copy in magnificent condition,I think it reasonable,IMHO,to acknowledge and say HATS OFF to JM .Simply stunning,is an understatement.A collectors dream.Don't waste yourself trying to compare it with this or that because trivial negative thinking is an excercise in futilty .What more could you ask for from a record that has it "all" ? Some people like it and some don't -but avoid being just blasé !!!
Guest Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Scans of the Gwen Owens 45 ..... Jerry Williams put me in touch with Gwen and then Rob did all of the talking that resulted in her appearance at Prestatyn She brought 4 copies of the record with her and as I recall they were all pretty mint. 3 were sold immediately and we kept 1 which was eventually sold. I can't recall where they went. What was interesting was that this was almost certainly a second pressing. Slightly lighter label and mastered at very very low volume. I rarely played it out as you had to really turn the volume up on the decks. I'd always believed that the stock had been destroyed due to the 'skip' which was probably due to the record being mastered at high volume (happy to be corrected on the technical stuff). So it was amazing to discover there had been a second run. The copy up for auction looks like the second pressing to me Andy Maybe JM could affirm whether or not it is original issue or 2nd copy re-press? His description states the disc as "rarest of the rare" and "in the finest condition possible"......would he go to those lengths for a 2nd issue re-press? Mebbe I'm alone in thinking this but a 2nd issue re-press has as much interest as the bootleg ie. zero. Who in their right mind would bid and pay thousands for one of those?
Len Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) I only want the other side - 'When o when' will there be one for sale that only 'my side' plays?!!! - Purely to get the cost down (I'm not saying 'the side' is no good) Ted - Future requests, please 'splice' in 'Still True To You' and 'Crying Clown' (Eddie Parker) when I'm next at an event where you're on - I dare ya! All the best, Len Edited March 15, 2013 by LEN
MrsWoodsrules Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) The up & coming soul film uses this, also along with Duke Browner, these standard oldies could be more demand in the next couple of years. If I had a mint Velgo or Impact, I'd hang on to it for the near future at least....til the film comes out at least, then I'd flog em. Aid. Edited March 15, 2013 by MrsWoodsrules
Iancsloft Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Never forget what Doni Burdick said to me at Prestatyn when his wife wanted to buy Bari Track off me and I told her it was $700 she was amazed at the price and Doni said the plant where it was pressed up was still operating and he would have to go and run one off LOL I don't know if he was joking or not? I hope so
Guest gordon russell Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Gwen Owens. Great record but hardly something to get in a tizzy over.Corse not pete...it,s just a soul record.....now if was done by HERMANS HERMITS
Pete S Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Corse not pete...it,s just a soul record.....now if was done by HERMANS HERMITS You're getting f*cking tiresome now, change the record. Sorry but Gwen Owens - big deal - even I've had a copy of that, it was played out by 1976 and there are numerous copies around. What am I meant to say?
Popular Post Pete S Posted March 15, 2013 Popular Post Posted March 15, 2013 (edited) Errr....Pete,are you being a little underwhelmed of some sorts..... ? Taken in the context,of this tune's history,rarity,and the fact this particular copy in magnificent condition,I think it reasonable,IMHO,to acknowledge and say HATS OFF to JM .Simply stunning,is an understatement.A collectors dream.Don't waste yourself trying to compare it with this or that because trivial negative thinking is an excercise in futilty .What more could you ask for from a record that has it "all" ? Some people like it and some don't -but avoid being just blasé !!! Underwhelmed, yes probably. Amused, at the sight of some of you creaming yourselves over the likes of Eddie Parker and Gwen Owens just because they might be in better nick than usual. They've been around for nearly 40 years. (not saying they're bad records - totally the opposite - two of the best Northern records you could ever wish to hear) Have you ever seen some of the records people like Hootenanie on here sell - truly rare records - but no topics written about those. That Classics on Yan G I sold, rarer than Gwen & Eddie, but who knew? It's like someone telling you to watch this shiny little coin spinning, you are under my power, you will be overwhelmed and start gushing for no real reason Edited March 15, 2013 by Pete S 4
KevH Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 But isn't the whole point of collecting, at this level, all about condition? That's why its still mindblowing that these 40 year old records turn up looking all shiny and new.RE: Gwen Owens.... Agree about 2 of the best NS tunes ever though. Kev..creaming away. Underwhelmed, yes probably. Amused, at the sight of some of you creaming yourselves over the likes of Eddie Parker and Gwen Owens just because they might be in better nick than usual. They've been around for nearly 40 years. (not saying they're bad records - totally the opposite - two of the best Northern records you could ever wish to hear)
Popular Post Pete S Posted March 15, 2013 Popular Post Posted March 15, 2013 But isn't the whole point of collecting, at this level, all about condition? That's why its still mindblowing that these 40 year old records turn up looking all shiny and new.RE: Gwen Owens.... Agree about 2 of the best NS tunes ever though. Kev..creaming away. Might be - used to be about getting hold of records you liked, whatever the condition - but if mint records are now trophy pieces for rich people - so be it. 4
Iancsloft Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Personally I don't like mint records If I'm buying a 40 yr old rare record I like it to ave a bit of history few marks on ect I can trace many of my rare ones back years even to the states some of the records I have these days I've had the same copy 4 or 5 times thro the years Take Moses Dillard think twice got my current copy of Phil T he got it off Carl F Carl F got it off me I got it off Phil T who got it off me I got it off Sam i sold it to Sam ect ect lol that copy had passed thro my hands several times before that all the way back to the 80's Ah the madness of collecting Northern Soul lol 2
Dave Thorley Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Personally I don't like mint records If I'm buying a 40 yr old rare record I like it to ave a bit of history few marks on ect I can trace many of my rare ones back years even to the states some of the records I have these days I've had the same copy 4 or 5 times thro the years Take Moses Dillard think twice got my current copy of Phil T he got it off Carl F Carl F got it off me I got it off Phil T who got it off me I got it off Sam i sold it to Sam ect ect lol that copy had passed thro my hands several times before that all the way back to the 80's Ah the madness of collecting Northern Soul lol I'm with you on this one. Got lots of records, that have other DJ's names in the run out, or the artist has scribbled something on the record 'To a friend' etc. Even got a bunch with influential U.S. DJ's names, E Rodney Jones, Lucky Cordell, Butterball Jr, Billy Soul, Soul Patrol, etc, etc gives em real history and a connection with a time and place....... 1
Popular Post Corbett80 Posted March 15, 2013 Popular Post Posted March 15, 2013 My record box spits mint 45s back out. It refuses to accept 'em. Lord knows i've tried but it'll only take VG and downward, the stubborn bastard. 9
Guest gordon russell Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 My record box spits mint 45s back out. It refuses to accept 'em. Lord knows i've tried but it'll only take VG and downward, the stubborn bastard.stubborn bastard........is that on LA-CINDY
Guest sharmo 1 Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Scans of the Gwen Owens 45 ..... Jerry Williams put me in touch with Gwen and then Rob did all of the talking that resulted in her appearance at Prestatyn She brought 4 copies of the record with her and as I recall they were all pretty mint. 3 were sold immediately and we kept 1 which was eventually sold. I can't recall where they went. What was interesting was that this was almost certainly a second pressing. Slightly lighter label and mastered at very very low volume. I rarely played it out as you had to really turn the volume up on the decks. I'd always believed that the stock had been destroyed due to the 'skip' which was probably due to the record being mastered at high volume (happy to be corrected on the technical stuff). So it was amazing to discover there had been a second run. The copy up for auction looks like the second pressing to me AndyHi there Andy I think that the skip was due to a dirty pressing plate.I know I had a long chat with Andy Dyson about this and he was adamant that the plate was damaged that would be o.k if they all junped in exactly the same place and jumped exactly the same.All the copies I've heard jump in around the same place but at differant stages of the groove that's why some jump once some twice and some worse.When any moulding is done with plastic especially p.v.c tha tooling has to be cleaned periodicly otherwise a build up of burned residue gets worse and worse.On some moulding of various products or componants you may see some pitting this is down to dirty tooling , i think this is the situation with Gwen Owens a little bit of plastic resedue and not a damaged plate.If you listen to the jumping copies the bongo's in the background are more pronounced I remember George from Derby saying He knew an original by listning to the intro as the bongo's were alway's clearer.It would appear the second runs are differant in a few obvious points and the labels seem a deeper colourI'll concure with your observations regarding the one currently available as a second run as were the demos that surface some time back that didn't jump.Although the demo's would have been done with clean plates so can't really be prooved either way unless George listens to them first!!! regards Simon.
dowmam Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Hi Guys does anyone know who owns the publishing on the Gwen Owens "wanted and needed" record?
Andy Rix Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Hi Guys does anyone know who owns the publishing on the Gwen Owens "wanted and needed" record?Hi Guys does anyone know who owns the publishing on the Gwen Owens "wanted and needed" record? I think it's Johnny Powers Andy
KevH Posted March 15, 2013 Posted March 15, 2013 Might be - used to be about getting hold of records you liked, whatever the condition - but if mint records are now trophy pieces for rich people - so be it. I'm talking about the collectors who collect the sort of stuff JM auctions.Not us mere mortals.
Guest Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 Scans of the Gwen Owens 45 ..... Jerry Williams put me in touch with Gwen and then Rob did all of the talking that resulted in her appearance at Prestatyn She brought 4 copies of the record with her and as I recall they were all pretty mint. 3 were sold immediately and we kept 1 which was eventually sold. I can't recall where they went. What was interesting was that this was almost certainly a second pressing. Slightly lighter label and mastered at very very low volume. I rarely played it out as you had to really turn the volume up on the decks. I'd always believed that the stock had been destroyed due to the 'skip' which was probably due to the record being mastered at high volume (happy to be corrected on the technical stuff). So it was amazing to discover there had been a second run. The copy up for auction looks like the second pressing to me Andy Andy -you are correct, JM has confirmed the copy he has up on auction IS indeed a 2nd pressing.....and of course looking brand new... Albeit JM calls it an "immediate" replacement......but with remastering...... Now that this has come to light,how can it really be called an "original"? (taking into account the changes) Does anyone know how many of these re-presses were made? Finally,does this re-press have ANY interest to the record collector?
Jim G Posted March 16, 2013 Author Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) JM Updated description is below for those who want it. Edited March 16, 2013 by jim g
Steve L Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 Andy -you are correct, JM has confirmed the copy he has up on auction IS indeed a 2nd pressing.....and of course looking brand new... Albeit JM calls it an "immediate" replacement......but with remastering...... Now that this has come to light,how can it really be called an "original"? (taking into account the changes) Does anyone know how many of these re-presses were made? Finally,does this re-press have ANY interest to the record collector? Surely thats taking the "original" argument too far? Just because it wasn't in the first run of pressings and done slightly later? Are you seriously saying this shouldn't be of interest? The only thing that would matter to me is that its not a bootleg or one pressed years later due to demand 3
Godzilla Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 Surely thats taking the "original" argument too far? Just because it wasn't in the first run of pressings and done slightly later? Are you seriously saying this shouldn't be of interest? The only thing that would matter to me is that its not a bootleg or one pressed years later due to demand Common Sense Alert! Common Sense Alert! 2
NEV Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 I'm with you on this one. Got lots of records, that have other DJ's names in the run out, or the artist has scribbled something on the record 'To a friend' etc. Even got a bunch with influential U.S. DJ's names, E Rodney Jones, Lucky Cordell, Butterball Jr, Billy Soul, Soul Patrol, etc, etc gives em real history and a connection with a time and place....... Well put Dave ! I never did understand why writing on a label would de- value a record ? If it was wrote on at the time the record was mint and not just scrawl by Jim or Julie ,it adds to the history and makes it more authentic . A message scrawled by a band member or a note to say this is the side to play ...the X on a demo etc ..like missing pieces of a jigsaw that transform you back in time Ideally ,a bit of tarnish on the label and a few marks on the vinyl ,but even better if it plays nice ! P.s Joel ,beggars can't be choosers and be thankful for what we have eh
KevH Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 I tell you what,i feel a lot better about my beat up collection now. 2
Pete S Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 Yeah I think it's splitting hairs to say that this isn't 'original', besides, I'd much rather have this one than the one that jumps.
Guest Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 Surely thats taking the "original" argument too far? Just because it wasn't in the first run of pressings and done slightly later? Are you seriously saying this shouldn't be of interest? The only thing that would matter to me is that its not a bootleg or one pressed years later due to demand How far is too far when originality is the issue? In a way,you seem to indicate the originality - it is of lesser importance? Maybe it would be easier to swallow if it had been described as a 2nd re-press from the start, because that is what this particular disc is. It is not an original first pressing.JM further added in the description.. No argument with you as to what matters to you -fair comment. But this is an important record....
Jim G Posted March 16, 2013 Author Posted March 16, 2013 It is not an original first pressing.JM further added in the description.. This reads like the OVO debate again, i.e. what is "Original Vinyl". The fact that the maker screwed up and scrapped most of damaged copies then put out corrected copies pretty much at the same time (still rare as hell) seems like taking collecting to realms of stamp collecting. I know this important to the very collectors who bother about such things. But to my eyes the JM auction copy is stil an "original" release. If we want OVO then, the first cut studio acetate should be one the seek out. As for this being an 'important' record, it ain't IMO, is is just a rare record... Ducks for cover
SHEFFSOUL Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 (edited) ...do all the originals jump?..and if so were tone arms weighted when DJ's played them..I ask because i have somewhere a tape from Cleethorpes winter gdns 1975 i think ..Sam introduces the 45 as 'the only place thats got it' i assume he was the first DJ to own/play it and i cant remember it jumping on the tape..so was it a first press with weighted arm or second press?..just curious... Edited March 16, 2013 by SHEFFSOUL
Pete S Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 ...do all the originals jump?..and if so were tone arms weighted when DJ's played them..I ask because i have somewhere a tape from Cleethorpes winter gdns 1975 i think ..Sam introduces the 45 as 'the only place thats got it' i assume he was the first DJ to own/play it and i cant remember it jumping on the tape..so was it a first press with weighted arm or second press?..just curious... When Pep used to play this it Wigan, after the instrumental break it jumped heavily two or three times. 1
Barry Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 Am I right in thinking the jump jumps into the beat (if you know what I mean) and isn't a train wreck obvious jump?
Pete S Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 Am I right in thinking the jump jumps into the beat (if you know what I mean) and isn't a train wreck obvious jump? No it's a monster skipping jump which really puts everyone off - well it used to I mean, they often used to fade it out once the jumps began 1
Steve L Posted March 16, 2013 Posted March 16, 2013 How far is too far when originality is the issue? In a way,you seem to indicate the originality - it is of lesser importance? Maybe it would be easier to swallow if it had been described as a 2nd re-press from the start, because that is what this particular disc is. It is not an original first pressing.JM further added in the description.. No argument with you as to what matters to you -fair comment. But this is an important record.... So you wouldn't be interested in owning this record then?
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