Wigan Rejects

[Wiggyflat]

I was speaking to Russ W over a year ago about the phenomenal turnover of records at Wigan Casino and if something wasnt taken to instantly then it was dropped.He quoted John Bowie-Youre Gonna Miss A Good Thing........amazing record but it just didnt work.Dropped after 2 weeks.Tobi Legend-Time Will pass you by...Russ started playing I Can Take It Like A Man after Time ,,,,,bombed.I bought it and think its an amzing record.Im finding that Im buying more and more of these records that fell through the cracks.The records that werent instant there seem to be better than a lot of supposed new discoveries imho.John Bowie I asssociate with the 80s.I also associate The Chandlers with the 80s another one Russ said didnt take off as it wasnt instant enough and had a tricky timechange.Come on forgotten Wigan soul sounds that fell through the cracks or are lauded as 80s 90s classics...when in fact they were failed Wigan spins.

 

[Pete S]

John Bowie was first played by Pep a couple of weeks before the 4th anniversary, at the 4th anniversary, and a couple of week after it, then it was mass imported by Soul Bowl and the record came off the playlists because everyone had a copy.  They were sold for £3 each, at exactly the same time as The Ringleaders, which were also £3 each.

So John Bowie didn't bomb, it wasn't massively popular but it was dropped for other reasons than it not being liked.

[Gene-r]

John Bowie was first played by Pep a couple of weeks before the 4th anniversary, at the 4th anniversary, and a couple of week after it, then it was mass imported by Soul Bowl and the record came off the playlists because everyone had a copy.  They were sold for £3 each, at exactly the same time as The Ringleaders, which were also £3 each.

So John Bowie didn't bomb, it wasn't massively popular but it was dropped for other reasons than it not being liked.

 

Not to mention that it remained in quantity and held its £3 price right through to the mid-80s!  Supply of The Ringleaders began to dry up during this time, and started selling for around £12.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Gene-R

[Shsdave]

I also associate The Chandlers with the 80s another one Russ said didnt take off as it wasnt instant enough and had a tricky timechange.Come on forgotten Wigan soul sounds that fell through the cracks or are lauded as 80s 90s classics...when in fact they were failed Wigan spins.

 

The Chandlers was big enough to get booted, big play for Pat brady wasn't it ? Unusually the boot was a solid center dark red label, not sure but think the label was imaginatively  called "Demand" .

E.J Chandler was booted on the same label, anything else ? 

Edited March 11, 2013 by SHSDave

[Gene-r]

The Chandlers was big enough to get booted, big play for Pat brady wasn't it ? Unusually the boot was a solid center dark red label but can't remember the name.

E.J Chandler was booted on the same label 

 

The label was 'Demand', Dave.  Also booted "Sensitive Mind" by General Assembly, "24 Hours of Loneliness" by Wilbur Walton Jr and (I think) "Woman Love Thief" by the Stemmons Express.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Gene-R

[Shsdave]

The label was 'Demand', Dave.  Also booted "Sensitive Mind" by General Assembly, "24 Hours of Loneliness" by Wilbur Walton Jr and (I think) "Woman Love Thief" by the Stemmons Express.

 

Ha ha thanks Gene, it came to me just after I posted, went back & edited ........too slow for quick draw Robertson

Hope you're well mate    

[Gene-r]

Ha ha thanks Gene, it came to me just after I posted, went back & edited ........too slow for quick draw Robertson

Hope you're well mate    

 

Great ta mate!  How are you doing? 

[Wiggyflat]

John Bowie was first played by Pep a couple of weeks before the 4th anniversary, at the 4th anniversary, and a couple of week after it, then it was mass imported by Soul Bowl and the record came off the playlists because everyone had a copy.  They were sold for £3 each, at exactly the same time as The Ringleaders, which were also £3 each.

So John Bowie didn't bomb, it wasn't massively popular but it was dropped for other reasons than it not being liked.

So a lifespan of about 8 weeks then.So the bootleggers were a major factor in the lifespan of a record as well as importers and dancefloor reaction.No wonder the deejays covered up records.If a record was to have legs...it had to be covered up....the importers not to offload a few hundred copies.....or someone pressing hundreds of copies or finding out its identity.I wonder what record had the longest covered up time there until it was uncovered.

[Pete S]

So a lifespan of about 8 weeks then.So the bootleggers were a major factor in the lifespan of a record as well as importers and dancefloor reaction.No wonder the deejays covered up records.If a record was to have legs...it had to be covered up....the importers not to offload a few hundred copies.....or someone pressing hundreds of copies or finding out its identity.I wonder what record had the longest covered up time there until it was uncovered.

 

If put on the spot I could think of several records that lasted for two or three weeks.  "The Shocker" by Peg leg Moffett for instance, reviewed in Echoes (covered up as Wilson Pickett), played the following saturday, available on import a week after.

[sir cumference]

So a lifespan of about 8 weeks then.So the bootleggers were a major factor in the lifespan of a record as well as importers and dancefloor reaction.No wonder the deejays covered up records.If a record was to have legs...it had to be covered up....the importers not to offload a few hundred copies.....or someone pressing hundreds of copies or finding out its identity.I wonder what record had the longest covered up time there until it was uncovered.

Frank Wilson?

 

Cecil Washington?

[Guest MrC]

Frank Wilson?

 

Cecil Washington?

Little Ann

[Carty]

marsha gee baby i need you also booted on demand label, didnt little ann ( patience valentine , when hes not around) remain covered up well into the eighties, ?  

[Carty]

you beat me to it mr c

[Gene-r]

marsha gee baby i need you also booted on demand label, didnt little ann ( patience valentine , when hes not around) remain covered up well into the eighties, ?  

 

Early '90s, I thought?

[Wiggyflat]

Frank Wilson?

 

Cecil Washington?

How long did these 2 last then as cover ups and was Frank Wilson ever dropped from the playlist .Im assuming that there must have been some form of gentlemans agreement with the importers and the deejays as to when to flood the market.The deejay wanting a bit of life for the record and the importer wanting cash for the records. (Not the 2 quoted as they were not around in quantity)

Edited March 11, 2013 by wiggyflat

[Pete S]

Frank Wilson?

 

Cecil Washington?

 

Frank Wilson was bootled after a couple of weeks as Eddie Foster but I'm sure it didn't take long for the real artist to appear - also came out on UK as Frank Wilson

[Pete S]

How long did these 2 last then as cover ups and was Frank Wilson ever dropped from the playlist .Im assuming that there must have been some form of gentlemans agreement with the importers and the deejays as to when to flood the market.The deejay wanting a bit of life for the record and the importer wanting cash for the records. (Not the 2 quoted as they were not around in quantity)

 

People all remember things differently.  Russ played FW only a few times before it was pressed, and once it was pressed, it was dropped, I'd say 6 weeks maximum for the whole process, I doubt it was played again until the last nighter and it was only years later that it started to be a regularly played and overplayed record

[macca]

FW would have had about a year of exposure before it went on general UK release, right? My first memory of it is from mid 1978.

[Mister Fish]

I remember John Bowie from the 4th anniversary and Patrice Holloway 'stolen hours' played after it.

The two stand out tunes of the night for me and didn't hear them for ages after.

[Ian Dewhirst]

How long did these 2 last then as cover ups and was Frank Wilson ever dropped from the playlist .Im assuming that there must have been some form of gentlemans agreement with the importers and the deejays as to when to flood the market.The deejay wanting a bit of life for the record and the importer wanting cash for the records. (Not the 2 quoted as they were not around in quantity)

 

There were never any agreements with the importers (possibly John Anderson excepted). Selectadisc would get 'em in as quickly as possible whether they were big or not. Records like Edie Walker "Good Guys" and Lou Courtney's "Me And You Doing The Boogalooo" didn't need to be pressed so quickly. Obviiously it was handy having advance info on what Selectadisc might have coming in as, 'cos if you were still holding an original then it would down in value as soon as the pressing hit these shores.

 

Ian D

[Gene-r]

FW would have had about a year of exposure before it went on general UK release, right? My first memory of it is from mid 1978.

 

Tamla Motown released it in the UK in November '79.

[macca]

Nearly 18 months after it being premiered then...

[Wiggyflat]

People all remember things differently.  Russ played FW only a few times before it was pressed, and once it was pressed, it was dropped, I'd say 6 weeks maximum for the whole process, I doubt it was played again until the last nighter and it was only years later that it started to be a regularly played and overplayed record

So Russ got the acetate from Simon Soussan............played it for a few weeks and the errrr bootlegger wanted to get the InEddie Foster  copy over straight away to earn a few dollars.Once it was on sale in the record bar it was dropped...So nearlyover  a months life for Frank Wilson!! 

Edited March 11, 2013 by wiggyflat

[manus]

I was speaking to Russ W over a year ago about the phenomenal turnover of records at Wigan Casino and if something wasnt taken to instantly then it was dropped.He quoted John Bowie-Youre Gonna Miss A Good Thing........amazing record but it just didnt work.Dropped after 2 weeks.Tobi Legend-Time Will pass you by...Russ started playing I Can Take It Like A Man after Time ,,,,,bombed.I bought it and think its an amzing record.Im finding that Im buying more and more of these records that fell through the cracks.The records that werent instant there seem to be better than a lot of supposed new discoveries imho.John Bowie I asssociate with the 80s.I also associate The Chandlers with the 80s another one Russ said didnt take off as it wasnt instant enough and had a tricky timechange.Come on forgotten Wigan soul sounds that fell through the cracks or are lauded as 80s 90s classics...when in fact they were failed Wigan spins.

 

 

Memory is a strange thing as I have a real strong memory , association of the John Bowie tune with Wigan which I'm not sure I would have had if it had only been played for a few weeks - I certainly wouldn't think of it as a reject.

 

Cheers

Manus

[Carty]

think cecil washington was covered up for well over a year, maybe closer to two.

[Wiggyflat]

What about this one....the comments below the track state massive at The Casino....was it really??? Im not aware of a boot of it so correct me if im wrong.I think this was a Russ spin....massive?? for how long??

 

[SHEFFSOUL]

I was speaking to Russ W over a year ago about the phenomenal turnover of records at Wigan Casino and if something wasnt taken to instantly then it was dropped.He quoted John Bowie-Youre Gonna Miss A Good Thing........amazing record but it just didnt work.Dropped after 2 weeks.Tobi Legend-Time Will pass you by...Russ started playing I Can Take It Like A Man after Time ,,,,,bombed.I bought it and think its an amzing record.Im finding that Im buying more and more of these records that fell through the cracks.The records that werent instant there seem to be better than a lot of supposed new discoveries imho.John Bowie I asssociate with the 80s.I also associate The Chandlers with the 80s another one Russ said didnt take off as it wasnt instant enough and had a tricky timechange.Come on forgotten Wigan soul sounds that fell through the cracks or are lauded as 80s 90s classics...when in fact they were failed Wigan spins.

 

yep..had John Bowie..thought it was great but not a floorfiller..

[SHEFFSOUL]

So a lifespan of about 8 weeks then.So the bootleggers were a major factor in the lifespan of a record as well as importers and dancefloor reaction.No wonder the deejays covered up records.If a record was to have legs...it had to be covered up....the importers not to offload a few hundred copies.....or someone pressing hundreds of copies or finding out its identity.I wonder what record had the longest covered up time there until it was uncovered.

 

well according to Levine..Midnight brew was covered up for approx 5 years..

[Harry Crosby]

What about this one....the comments below the track state massive at The Casino....was it really??? Im not aware of a boot of it so correct me if im wrong.I think this was a Russ spin....massive?? for how long??

 

Deffo a big spin for Russ, unless someone played it before him, about the same time as Roger K  I think, can`t remember how long for though, as you say it wasn`t booted.

[Agentsmith]

Deffo a big spin for Russ, unless someone played it before him, about the same time as Roger K  I think, can`t remember how long for though, as you say it wasn`t booted.

but it was initially covered up as eddie kendricks ( because he wrote it )

[Agentsmith]

aren't we going a bit off piste here folks, thought the thread was about the records that fell through, to quote, wigan's cracks?, not boots and cover-ups...well, anyway, wasnt earl wright's "thumb a ride" a cover-up for a significant amount of years say, 4-5?, for levine?

[SHEFFSOUL]

marsha gee baby i need you also booted on demand label, didnt little ann ( patience valentine , when hes not around) remain covered up well into the eighties, ?  

cant remember Marsha gee being covered up..was a reg play at the casino..and VA_VA's before that..

[kevinsoulman]

Im assuming that there must have been some form of gentlemans agreement with the importers and the deejays as to when to flood the market.The deejay wanting a bit of life for the record and the importer wanting cash for the records.

 

did you mean bootleggers  as well and were they one and the same

kev

Edited March 11, 2013 by kevinsoulman

[Guest Matt Male]

What about this one....the comments below the track state massive at The Casino....was it really??? Im not aware of a boot of it so correct me if im wrong.I think this was a Russ spin....massive?? for how long??

 

 

I certainly remember Posse. It was a massive sound at our local youth club and one of the reasons i went to Wigan in the first place. I can't seem to remember it getting many plays immediately after Wigan closed like quite a few late Wigan records that became associated with the early 80s clubs.

 

Played around '79 - '80 at least.

Edited March 11, 2013 by Matt Male

[Pete S]

I certainly remember Posse. It was a massive sound at our local youth club and one of the reasons i went to Wigan in the first place. I can't seem to remember it getting many plays immediately after Wigan closed like quite a few late Wigan records that became associated with the early 80s clubs.

 

Played around '79 - '80 at least.

 

Yeah it was 79, was a big sound at Bham Locarno as well

[Carty]

Sheffsoul,  i wasnt saying marsha gee had been covered up, i was refering to earlier mention of titles that had been  booted on the demand label

[Sheldonsoul]

4 jays love my love

Marva jones I got your number

Two records which I think disappeared quite quickly

[Citizen P]

aren't we going a bit off piste here folks, thought the thread was about the records that fell through, to quote, wigan's cracks?, not boots and cover-ups...well, anyway, wasnt earl wright's "thumb a ride" a cover-up for a significant amount of years say, 4-5?, for levine?

 interesting-I heard that first in '72 and it was certainly not covered up then.

[TOAD]

earnest fitzgerald ace in the hole not played much at wigan

[Jez Jones]

 interesting-I heard that first in '72 and it was certainly not covered up then.

 

 

yep Earl Wright...certainly played down Hose st way..and not covered up around same time as Exus  Trek

[Guest MrC]

earnest fitzgerald ace in the hole not played much at wigan

 

You're right Tim, Only played for a few weeks by Alan Rhodes, never covered up or booted either.

[Jim G]

Here a few odd balls my old grey matter can remember

 

California In Crowd "Happiness In My Heart" played in1975

Rotary Connection "Teach Me How To Fly" played in 1975 (Alan Rhodes)

Brian Bennett "Chase Side Shoot Up" played in 1974 / 1975 I think, John Vincent spin, covered up as "Soul A Go Go" by Bob Wilson (it was theme for BBC golf)

Bullet "Willpower Weak Temptation Strong" 

 

 

I loved Tobi Legend from it's first play, it is still my favourite record (and not because of 3 before 8)

[Wiggyflat]

Here a few odd balls my old grey matter can remember

 

California In Crowd "Happiness In My Heart" played in1975

Rotary Connection "Teach Me How To Fly" played in 1975 (Alan Rhodes)

Brian Bennett "Chase Side Shoot Up" played in 1974 / 1975 I think, John Vincent spin, covered up as "Soul A Go Go" by Bob Wilson (it was theme for BBC golf)

Bullet "Willpower Weak Temptation Strong" 

 

 

I loved Tobi Legend from it's first play, it is still my favourite record (and not because of 3 before 8)

Im supposing that these got plays because they were found in the UK.:Not sure Rotary Connection was a UK though.I was told by a certain Jack Wardle that he was selling the Chase Side Shoot Up covered up at Wigan as it was a recent UK release on BBC records.It is interesting that the 3 before 8 had such a long lifespan.What was the score with Dean Parish Im On My Way as that got a release on Jonathan Kings UK label....why wasnt it dropped then when reissued or was it so big by then that the policy of dropping reissued or booted 45s stopped.Im still intrigued by Frank Wilson and its actual lifespan at The Casino from Russ getting the acetate from Soussan....the In copies of Eddie Foster landing on the shores and the record being dropped from the playlist.From the comment earlier about Cecil Washington being covered up for 2 years that record seemed to have a longer lifespan and would have been played more than Frank Wilson.How about this one.I heard this in Germany on Saturday.

Edited March 12, 2013 by wiggyflat

[MrsWoodsrules]

John Bowie was first played by Pep a couple of weeks before the 4th anniversary, at the 4th anniversary, and a couple of week after it, then it was mass imported by Soul Bowl and the record came off the playlists because everyone had a copy.  They were sold for £3 each, at exactly the same time as The Ringleaders, which were also £3 each.

So John Bowie didn't bomb, it wasn't massively popular but it was dropped for other reasons than it not being liked.

 

Correct as usual Pete, it's was persevered with & was around for a good while that one.

 

Aid.

[Guest MrC]

Sonny Oceans - Pity Me on Columbia, a big room tune that was played a handful of times over the same number of weeks, never booted, maybe a bit pop, but I liked it, and still like it!

 

[Jim G]

Im supposing that these got plays because they were found in the UK.:Not sure Rotary Connection was a UK though.I was told by a certain Jack Wardle that he was selling the Chase Side Shoot Up covered up at Wigan as it was a recent UK release on BBC records.

 

Rotary Connection was US Cadet, California In Crowd was aslo around on USA "Viva" Records, I sold a copy for £12 in 1975. Chase Side Shoot Up came out on UK Fontana Records.

 

I used to own the Rotary Connection album below, didn't know it was worth a few quid!

Edited March 12, 2013 by jim g

[TOAD]

the four sight love is a hurting game shy soul a minor play towards the end

[Local]

 Ian had the record nicked and it took him a while to get it back but it was never covered up.

Actually, around this time  late 71 early 72 I don't recall any record being covered up. Unless you were one of the elite few who could afford the trip to the USA you couldn't get hold of any of the records anyway.

aren't we going a bit off piste here folks, thought the thread was about the records that fell through, to quote, wigan's cracks?, not boots and cover-ups...well, anyway, wasnt earl wright's "thumb a ride" a cover-up for a significant amount of years say, 4-5?, for levine?

Edited March 12, 2013 by local

[Pete S]

Im supposing that these got plays because they were found in the UK.:Not sure Rotary Connection was a UK though.I was told by a certain Jack Wardle that he was selling the Chase Side Shoot Up covered up at Wigan as it was a recent UK release on BBC records.It is interesting that the 3 before 8 had such a long lifespan.What was the score with Dean Parish Im On My Way as that got a release on Jonathan Kings UK label....why wasnt it dropped then when reissued or was it so big by then that the policy of dropping reissued or booted 45s stopped.Im still intrigued by Frank Wilson and its actual lifespan at The Casino from Russ getting the acetate from Soussan....the In copies of Eddie Foster landing on the shores and the record being dropped from the playlist.From the comment earlier about Cecil Washington being covered up for 2 years that record seemed to have a longer lifespan and would have been played more than Frank Wilson.How about this one.I heard this in Germany on Saturday.

 

Dean Parrish was spun at the Torch I think so was still a newie at the casino, it was reissued on Laurie but they realised it would be a perfect fit to end the night with, so even though  it sold 30 odd thousand copies on UK, they'd never drop it.

The Eddie Foster / Frank Wilson thing, it was just another record at the time, it came, it got booted, it got dropped, this happened to five or six titles every week, literally every week.

I never heard that William Cummings anywhere until the late 80's.

[Chalky]

William Cummings, Butch says it was a £4 rarity on Soul Bowl in 1974 then £1 special in 1975 when he and Tim got copies, it's on here somewhere. Like you say though, Pete don't think it was played till years later from what I could find out.