Wand 45S On Vinyl

[boba]

Were there certain ranges of years where wand 45s came out on vinyl in addition to styrene? Or was it patchy and on a release-by-release basis? Any determining factor? I most associate the label with styrene and am wondering if it's possible to get certain wand releases on vinyl (obviously not every wand title was available on vinyl). Thanks in advance.

[Dave Pinch]

i think they had a period in 1963 when there were some vinyl issues bob but thats all i think.. stevie g your man on this

[Steve G]

In the early years they used quite a few pressing plants and so quite a few records exist on vinyl. There is no golden rule though over numbers and how they were pressed (indeed the actual black and white label design had several variants as well). by contrast, Scepter until the mid 60's more often than not were on vinyl rather than styrene - but again not exclusively. For example Junior Lewis and one of Dionne's were only on styrene because their usual pressing plant at the time was on strike.  

 

Also towards the end with the orange Wand's, these were by and large  vinyl.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Steve G

[Dave Pinch]

In the early years they used quite a few pressing plants and so quite a few records exist on vinyl. There is no golden rule though over numbers and how they were pressed (indeed the actual black and white label design had several variants as well). by contrast, Scepter until the mid 60's more often than not were on vinyl rather than styrene - but again not exclusively. For example Junior Lewis and one of Dionne's were only on styrene because their usual pressing plant at the time was on strike.  

 

Also towards the end with the orange Wand's, these were by and large  vinyl.

oh yes forgot about that..all the stuff from late 72 is on vinyl

[Steve G]

Dave some of the post 72 stuff was on styrene as well.  

Edited March 10, 2013 by Steve G

[Tiberius]

I have here 2 stock copies of 1973 released Wand WND 11262 - ULTRA HIGH FREQUENCY - INCOMPATIBLE / SADDEST SMILE IN TOWN (with different mix B sides on each).*

 

S 51259-1B mix is a styrene press whilst S 51259-1D mix is a vinyl press.  I had a few Demo copies over time but not for a while now so can't say if that 45 is styrene or vinyl,  or both!  No doubt someone will be able too add this info.

 

*Edit: Having just played these 2 45's they are in fact the same mix (Major Harris? version)  The other mix is S 51259-2E .

Edited March 10, 2013 by tiberius

[boba]

so say 67 to '72 I'm unlikely to find vinyl copies of wand 45s? I think maybe it has something to do with the start of the 1100 series in '65?

 

Also, unrelated, are there any expensive rock records on wand? Just asking for collecting reasons -- e.g. are there rock numbers that are hard to get because they are in demand (versus just rare)?

[boba]

I have a bunch of post-72 vinyl btw, don't know if there was any sort of rule

[George G]

so say 67 to '72 I'm unlikely to find vinyl copies of wand 45s? I think maybe it has something to do with the start of the 1100 series in '65?

 

Also, unrelated, are there any expensive rock records on wand? Just asking for collecting reasons -- e.g. are there rock numbers that are hard to get because they are in demand (versus just rare)?

RE: rock records, no rare ones, except maybe the Peter Jay 45 which I don't recall seeing. The Moving Sidewalks 45s are probably in the most demand. Mickey and the Clean Cuts is a popular in some circles but all of these can be had without too much pain. There seems to be Moving Sidewalks 45s on ebay all the time as they were hits in some places. There's a few oddball 60s records that are the 'dependent on taste' whether people into 60s garage or pop would want them (such as the Next Five, Stone Cantalope, Bobby Bond). Sad to say I collect Wand records but only up to 1971 or so.

[Steve G]

RE: rock records, no rare ones, except maybe the Peter Jay 45 which I don't recall seeing. The Moving Sidewalks 45s are probably in the most demand. Mickey and the Clean Cuts is a popular in some circles but all of these can be had without too much pain. There seems to be Moving Sidewalks 45s on ebay all the time as they were hits in some places. There's a few oddball 60s records that are the 'dependent on taste' whether people into 60s garage or pop would want them (such as the Next Five, Stone Cantalope, Bobby Bond). Sad to say I collect Wand records but only up to 1971 or so.

 

Peter Jay - I do not believe this came out on Wand. Gloria who ran the Scepter Wand Appriecation Society here in 1964 had a major falling out with him in record Mirror over his covering of US 45s. Paul Cantor, Dionne and others would have seen that since Gloria re-published the letters in her newsletter.

 

I have never seen a copy of Tiny Golden and his Trumpet and wouldn't believe it exists, except some dude in the US insists he has a copy. And then there is The mysterious Nornetts, which no one knows anything about, and The Peter Thomas groupe - never seen that on Wand either......

 

In response to Bob's ? yes no rules, they pressed in small quantities and all over, but usually using as cheap materials as they could - so styrene more often.

[Dave Pinch]

are there any northern wand 45`s the black/white variety  say1964 to 1970 on vinyl

[Dave Pinch]

I have here 2 stock copies of 1973 released Wand WND 11262 - ULTRA HIGH FREQUENCY - INCOMPATIBLE / SADDEST SMILE IN TOWN (with different mix B sides on each).

 

S 51259-1B mix is a styrene press whilst S 51259-1D mix is a vinyl press.  I had a few Demo copies over time but not for a while now so can't say if that 45 is styrene or vinyl,  or both!  No doubt someone will be able too add this info.

isnt major harris the vocalist on this

[boba]

I've been told that Danny Johnson (Chicago singer later in the Chilites) was the lead. I don't know if that's true or not. I know it's a philly production but the south shore commission also were chicago based (at least some of them) and went to philly to record the same song.

[boba]

RE: rock records, no rare ones, except maybe the Peter Jay 45 which I don't recall seeing. The Moving Sidewalks 45s are probably in the most demand. Mickey and the Clean Cuts is a popular in some circles but all of these can be had without too much pain. There seems to be Moving Sidewalks 45s on ebay all the time as they were hits in some places. There's a few oddball 60s records that are the 'dependent on taste' whether people into 60s garage or pop would want them (such as the Next Five, Stone Cantalope, Bobby Bond). Sad to say I collect Wand records but only up to 1971 or so.

Thanks. I think I got the moving sidewalks for cheap. And I think there are expensive "rock" records  (e.g. is Stemmons Express soul?) but not expensive to rock collectors. Was just wondering if there was some heavy title that is known in general as a rock collectible. Interesting that they put out things like the kingsmen but there's literally not one collectible rock title.

[boba]

also, isn't there a super expensive doowop 45? steve, do you have that?

[Dave Pinch]

theres a couple of takes but i`m sure its major harris on this take

 

 

[boba]

The major harris thing doesn't fit into the chronology of his career. I think he was still in the delfonics at the time and then he was solo in '74. The "nickel shoe" publishing is interesting though., I compared voices and can't rule in or rule out either. why are you so convinced, just by the voice?

[Garethx]

are there any northern wand 45`s the black/white variety  say1964 to 1970 on vinyl

Maxine Brown's "Let Me Give You My Lovin" is on both vinyl and styrene.

[Dave Pinch]

just remembered one in a million is on vinyl..and they all sound piercing....never seen let me give you my loving on vinyl tho gareth

[Guest]

Maxine Brown's "Let Me Give You My Lovin" is on both vinyl and styrene.

 

...as is Chuck Jackson's, 'Hand It Over' #149...the styrene being Monarch injected.

 

The Charts, 'Living The Nightlife' is vinyl on demo and stock copies (#1124).

 

[Dave Pinch]

The major harris thing doesn't fit into the chronology of his career. I think he was still in the delfonics at the time and then he was solo in '74. The "nickel shoe" publishing is interesting though., I compared voices and can't rule in or rule out either. why are you so convinced, just by the voice?

he left the delfonics in 73.....could have been sessioning in 73 on this..read it somewhere and it does sound like him

[Guest]

...never seen let me give you my loving on vinyl tho...

 

My Japanese copy is 100% vinyl...and exceedingly rare...fabulous picture cover as well.

[Garethx]

Does anyone know the identity of the plant which did the bulk of the Scepter/Wand styrene? While they used Columbia in Pittman NJ for certain titles these all had ZTSP codes on the labels. As Dave Flynn mentions above there are Monarchs too for some titles. Again these are easy to spot because of the Delta codes in the matrix. Then there are the screen printed no-paper Bestway presses on titles like Ed Bruce and Scepter-distributed labels like Gold.

 

The plant I'm thinking of is the one which made the Garrison 45s and the majority of the Scepter/Wand styrene titles.

 

There are some vinyl anomalies too. Obvious one is The Masqueraders "Let's Face Facts" on a completely different label layout: white with serif-typeface Wand logo. These look to me like they were pressed at an unidentified New York plant which handled many indie labels like Genuine, Frisky, Tarx etc.

[Guest]

There are some vinyl anomalies too. Obvious one is The Masqueraders "Let's Face Facts" on a completely different label layout: white with serif-typeface Wand logo. These look to me like they were pressed at an unidentified New York plant which handled many indie labels like Genuine, Frisky, Tarx etc.

 

Add the Anglos, 'Since You've Been Gone' into that particular anomoly bunch as a WD.

[Garethx]

Of course Dave. Come to think of it are there regular issues of either The Anglos or The Masqueraders in this format? Think I've only ever seen WDs of either.

[Guest]

Of course Dave. Come to think of it are there regular issues of either The Anglos or The Masqueraders in this format? Think I've only ever seen WDs of either.

 

My eyes haven't clapped eyes on either as stockers.

Let us also not forget that the version of the Anglos SYBG is totally different to the one on the local Ship Town label.

 

We're going off track now

[Steve G]

Does anyone know the identity of the plant which did the bulk of the Scepter/Wand styrene? While they used Columbia in Pittman NJ for certain titles these all had ZTSP codes on the labels. As Dave Flynn mentions above there are Monarchs too for some titles. Again these are easy to spot because of the Delta codes in the matrix. Then there are the screen printed no-paper Bestway presses on titles like Ed Bruce and Scepter-distributed labels like Gold.

 

The plant I'm thinking of is the one which made the Garrison 45s and the majority of the Scepter/Wand styrene titles.

 

There are some vinyl anomalies too. Obvious one is The Masqueraders "Let's Face Facts" on a completely different label layout: white with serif-typeface Wand logo. These look to me like they were pressed at an unidentified New York plant which handled many indie labels like Genuine, Frisky, Tarx etc.

There are loads of oddball things....one sided demos, a weird red Kingsmen Wand 45 with a totally different label design, as i say no hard and fast rules. 

 

Bob the rare doo-wops are The Jokers and The Ti-tones, both v hard on Wand, but both exist def. 100%

 

And Scepter did not distribute Gold Gareth.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Steve G

[Tiggerwoods]

Were there certain ranges of years where wand 45s came out on vinyl in addition to styrene? Or was it patchy and on a release-by-release basis? Any determining factor? I most associate the label with styrene and am wondering if it's possible to get certain wand releases on vinyl (obviously not every wand title was available on vinyl). Thanks in advance.

[Tiggerwoods]

Think my Chuck Jackson - Somebody new is vinyl and Johnny Copeland - It's me ....sure others are too

[Garethx]

Those vinyls like the Chuck Jackson, Johnny Copeland etc. were pressed at a factory called Sonic in Brooklyn which also pressed ABC Paramount 45s and LPs. It may have been owned by ABC.

[Garethx]

There are loads of oddball things....one sided demos, a weird red Kingsmen Wand 45 with a totally different label design, as i say no hard and fast rules. 

 

Bob the rare doo-wops are The Jokers and The Ti-tones, both v hard on Wand, but both exist def. 100%

 

And Scepter did not distribute Gold Gareth.

Ah yes. Steve. I see now it was distributed by Bell, but owned by Luther Dixon.

[Prophonics 2029]

My red and black Wands are all from the same type of styrene plant wih no Delta or Bell stamp's, quiet blank really, but I have a Chuck Jackson on black and white thats a ZTCP press.

[Garethx]

Indeed Tony. That's the styrene plant I'd like to identify. It's not Columbia, or Bestway or Shelly or Monarch. It doesn't seem to be any of the Mercury/Philips ones either.

[Steve G]

Why do you not think it's Columbia Gareth? 

[Prophonics 2029]

They look a little Columbian but don't have that stamped letter in the DW like 1A its all hand done? but then so was some of the Okeh stuff?

[Garethx]

Why do you not think it's Columbia Gareth? 

Because Columbia always identified their presses with a very systematic ordering code and either stamped or scratched matrix for all clients. I have a copy of Chuck Jackson "Any Day Now" / "The Prophet" which is a Columbia press and it's stamped and labelled as such. Also the typefaces are different sets. Columbia Pittman typically used Franklin Gothic Black for titles. 

 

One of the key signifiers of the plant Scepter Wand usually used for styrene is the stars used in the typesetting to denote the plug or play side. These are different from practically any other label. Mercury/Philips/Blue Rock used 'stars' to do this on demos but they are an asterisk-like device rather than the five pointed star used on Scepter, Wand, Bamboo, Bunky, Garrison etc.

[Steve G]

Gareth I was teasing you a bit. Scepter DID INDEED use Columbia for their pressing. They were one of the labels signed with Columbia's Custom Label division throughout the 60's. 

 

The stars on the labels, the litho was done by a seperate company (Queens Litho for a lot of them?) which would have been supplied to Scepter's own design (with stars) and then supplied to Columbia to be stuck on the records once pressed.

[Garethx]

Why no ZTS codes then Steve?

 

Queens Litho would have provided typesetting for many pressing plants in the New York Metropolitan area, including Columbia in Pittman, NJ.

 

Why separate styrene presses of "Any Day Now", one with a ZTSP code and one without if both from the same plant?

[Steve G]

Gareth - re "Any Day Now" - probably re-pressed in a rush.

 

Here is a link I have found that mentions Scepter's relationship with Columbia.....

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=7v7wJqhaBhoC&pg=PA141&dq=norman+dolph+scepter&hl=en&sa=X&ei=CbI8Ud35BdOR7Ablr4HoAg&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=norman%20dolph%20scepter&f=false

[Prophonics 2029]

My Keep Forgetting is ZTSP .

[George G]

Thanks. I think I got the moving sidewalks for cheap. And I think there are expensive "rock" records  (e.g. is Stemmons Express soul?) but not expensive to rock collectors. Was just wondering if there was some heavy title that is known in general as a rock collectible. Interesting that they put out things like the kingsmen but there's literally not one collectible rock title.

Scepter had a lot more odd garage and rock records than Wand. I don't know how they set up their business. Maybe Wand was supposed to be a soul label but the legacy of the Kingsmen (who predated the garage / rock explosion) kept them in that scene a bit. There is a fairly rare 45 on Scepter by the Dickens, it's not as rare as some people think "50 copies distributed" but it is documented to have a limited release. Also the good Six Feet Under 45 on Scepter is fairly high demand/cost.

I thought Stemmons Express was a genuine Northern Soul record. No interest to the garage or pop-psych crowd.

[George G]

Peter Jay - I do not believe this came out on Wand. Gloria who ran the Scepter Wand Appriecation Society here in 1964 had a major falling out with him in record Mirror over his covering of US 45s. Paul Cantor, Dionne and others would have seen that since Gloria re-published the letters in her newsletter.

 

I have never seen a copy of Tiny Golden and his Trumpet and wouldn't believe it exists, except some dude in the US insists he has a copy. And then there is The mysterious Nornetts, which no one knows anything about, and The Peter Thomas groupe - never seen that on Wand either......

Thanks for the Peter Jay info, I had assumed it was never released after all this time, I've spent a lot of time trying to find US releases of non-US 'beat era' artists and had never seen this (along with other similar phantoms on other labels)

[Steve G]

Scepter had a lot more odd garage and rock records than Wand. I don't know how they set up their business. Maybe Wand was supposed to be a soul label but the legacy of the Kingsmen (who predated the garage / rock explosion) kept them in that scene a bit. There is a fairly rare 45 on Scepter by the Dickens, it's not as rare as some people think "50 copies distributed" but it is documented to have a limited release. Also the good Six Feet Under 45 on Scepter is fairly high demand/cost.

I thought Stemmons Express was a genuine Northern Soul record. No interest to the garage or pop-psych crowd.

 

Yes George you are right Wand was supposed to be for R&B sounds although it got blurred as time went on. It sounds odd but the Scepter folk thought the Kingsmen were black when they heard Louie Louie and that's why they went onto Wand!

 

Stemmons Express were a white group from Dallas. I always thought it was a great record though.

 

Dickens - I have never seen an issue only the promos that the band were supposed to have liberated some months later. There are a number of other rare rock / psych things on the label, but it seems little demand for them - Red Lite district is another one. Also there are some I have never seen an issue for - like Quarter to Three.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Steve G

[Tiberius]

isnt major harris the vocalist on this

The CD "Philadelphia Sweet and Deep - The Deeper Side Of Philly Groove" appears to credit Major Harris as vocalist.  I don't have the CD so can't say if there's any info in the sleeve notes to confirm.

[Guest]

are there any northern wand 45`s the black/white variety  say1964 to 1970 on vinyl

These are on vinyl,

I'm Your Yes Man - Clarance Reid

One In A Million - Maxine Brown

Mr Schemer - Brenton Wood

I think I might have seen Livin' the nightlife - The Charts on vinyl as well.

[Steve G]

Hi Greg, Living the nighlife was on vinyl, quite a few of them were....more styrene after 66.

[Kris Holmes]

I think from memory the Soul Brothers 45 is on vinyl.  Also, the boots  of some of the Wand things are obviously vinyl, there is a Isley Bros "Twist & Shout" boot which springs to mind.

[Ian Dewhirst]

The major harris thing doesn't fit into the chronology of his career. I think he was still in the delfonics at the time and then he was solo in '74. The "nickel shoe" publishing is interesting though., I compared voices and can't rule in or rule out either. why are you so convinced, just by the voice?

[Ian Dewhirst]

The major harris thing doesn't fit into the chronology of his career. I think he was still in the delfonics at the time and then he was solo in '74. The "nickel shoe" publishing is interesting though., I compared voices and can't rule in or rule out either. why are you so convinced, just by the voice?

It is Major Harris Bob.....

 

Major Harris / Ultra High Frequency Saddest Smile In Town Felder, Harris, Baker 11262 Philly Groove 1973 3.38

 

Ian D

Edited March 10, 2013 by Ian Dewhirst

[Steve G]

I think from memory the Soul Brothers 45 is on vinyl.  Also, the boots  of some of the Wand things are obviously vinyl, there is a Isley Bros "Twist & Shout" boot which springs to mind.

 

Hi Kris, Most of the early ones were vinyl (including the Soul Brothers). The styrene started to become derigeur c 66.