Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Been waiting for a record from the States for a couple of weeks. Got to work this morning and there is a slip on my desk with "Unfortunately we can't deliver your item because there is a fee to pay" Box checked 'There is a Customs charge' (includes £8 handling fee) Payment due: £58.24. I messaged the seller via Ebay and paid by PayPal paying $23.95 for shipping. Don't see how this can be? Anyone experienced similar? Any advice/help gratefully received. Edited March 21, 2013 by Simsy
Bo Diddley Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 The seller has declared a value on the package of approximately £251. Therefore a charge of 20% on this value is made PLUS the £8 fixed charge. Not nice, hope you got a bargain
Spacehopper Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) happening more and more it seems nowadays...customs charges are bad enuff but paying admin for having to go down there and stand around for ages while they try to find it is taking the p.... good news for uk dealers i suppose though...more people getting fed up with ebay dean Edited March 4, 2013 by spacehopper
Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 The seller has declared a value on the package of approximately £251. Therefore a charge of 20% on this value is made PLUS the £8 fixed charge. Not nice, hope you got a bargain Feck! Was he obliged to list the value do you think? Never paid these kinds of fees from the US before. Is this always the case with dearer items? It was a bit of a bargain, but is turning out less so by the day!
Spacehopper Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) ive had a few times...i suppose its to do with the insurance on higher valued items...if the seller says there worth $10 he cant claim the true value if they go missing? Edited March 4, 2013 by spacehopper
Bo Diddley Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 I don't think they are "obliged" but as Mr SpaceHopper says, more are doing so to protect themselves in the event of a claim. I had this happen once on a £50 record - total charges £18 ....then had to RETURN IT as it was not as described!! Feck! Was he obliged to list the value do you think? Never paid these kinds of fees from the US before. Is this always the case with dearer items? It was a bit of a bargain, but is turning out less so by the day!
Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 I don't think they are "obliged" but as Mr SpaceHopper says, more are doing so to protect themselves in the event of a claim. I had this happen once on a £50 record - total charges £18 ....then had to RETURN IT as it was not as described!! Makes sense I spose. Just a bit of a cliff when you've parted with wedge, waited for weeks and then this!
Wiganer1 Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 ive had 2 lots of record sleeves that ive had to pay £24 twice on,,,,,
Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 Well an off the cuff offer of $400 has turned into a total cost of £340.13. However, it's here, it's mint and (despite the agg) I'm reet pleased!
bri pinch Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 We got done 4 0r 5 times in quick sucession for £25 - £35 recently...had one a couple of years ago for £180 ...they've left us alone for the past couple of months tho that may be about to change
Dave Pinch Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 We got done 4 0r 5 times in quick sucession for £25 - £35 recently...had one a couple of years ago for £180 ...they've left us alone for the past couple of months tho that may be about to change hope your not tempting fate there bro........ 1
Jnixon Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 its fraudulent if they dont declare. some people are harsh about it others are cool. pot luck so i try to control it if its gonna be a big additional cost and ask upfront. if they say no then you have a choice
Garethx Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 Some sellers are happy to undervalue shipments for customs while others seem uneasy about it. I suppose you have to ask yourself if you would be happy to lose the 'real' amount of money you paid if something should happen like loss or damage in transit. Imagine the scenario of a four figure record getting snapped into pieces while its custom declaration is $5. If you pay through paypal you still theoretically have a paper trail of the spend but the seller would then face awkward questions about fraudulent behaviour: particularly if they are a professional seller who pays taxes as a business. You can see why an increasing amount of US sellers are shying away from posting items internationally. For an item over three figures it's probably easier to ask the seller what their attitude to the customs declaration is before you make a bid or commit to buy. It seems like anything with a higher valuation will take much longer to arrive as well, as it has to go through the additional channel of getting VAT-rated and the so-called handling fee being added at this end. This topic has come up a lot of the years but is really biting as tax authorities try to get a handle of the sheer volume of international trade through ebay. I don't know what the figures are now in 2013, but as long ago as 2009 ebay had a turnover which, if it were a country, would have placed it in the top thirteen of world economies. The USPS have adjusted the price of their international services and their methods of meshing with other countries postal and tax collecting services to try to reflect this. It's unavoidable and probably irreversible, but is part of buying things from the US now. You have to wonder why the authorities on both sides of the Atlantic were so lax on it for so long.
Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 I paid £285.29 last week for one Well I contacted the seller direct on Ebay to ask if he had any further copies of this record, when he said he did, I offered $400 and that was accepted. I paid $423.95 + £58.25 VAT & Post Office charges came to £340.19. Now I happen to know 2 copies of this sold on UK Ebay recently, one for £427.99 & one for £439.00. These two buyers will both have had to whack on 20% VAT + £8.00. So at least I didn't pay £531.80!
Sebastian Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Imagine the scenario of a four figure record getting snapped into pieces while its custom declaration is $5. But that shouldn't make a difference, really. Think of all the shipments that goes on every day within the UK or EU where you don't have to fill in a customs form or declare a value. What would happen in that scenario? Edited March 4, 2013 by Sebastian
TOAD Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 ok not about records but i fancy buying a coat $600 from the states he said he would put it 'as a repair' would i get stung ? Tia T
Deepdown Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 ok not about records but i fancy buying a coat $600 from the states he said he would put it 'as a repair' would i get stung ? Tia T I don't think you would get stung but make sure he takes the tags of as well. 1
Steve G Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 This is part of a major and well known crackdown......Ask yer postie about it, they're getting tired of all the stuff piling up in the PO and customer complaints when their generally modest Amazon purchase or whatever attracts a minimum £11 charge......
davidwapples Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 i know of someone who imported some fabric and they got the seller to put sample on it and avoided paying but it depends on how much detail they go into when checking i suppose 1
Frankie M Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 so its 20% max ? + £8 Just been charged £14.31 including £8 handling charge ,first time i have seen this and buy in the USA on a regular basis
Phild Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 Well I contacted the seller direct on Ebay to ask if he had any further copies of this record, when he said he did, I offered $400 and that was accepted. I paid $423.95 + £58.25 VAT & Post Office charges came to £340.19. Now I happen to know 2 copies of this sold on UK Ebay recently, one for £427.99 & one for £439.00. These two buyers will both have had to whack on 20% VAT + £8.00. So at least I didn't pay £531.80! Can't be the same record as I'm on about. I paid $1533 for the record and £285.29 in import duty & VAT
Bo Diddley Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) Yes Tim. I think it's VAT. So in theory, using an exchange rate of say £1:$1.55, $600 is £387, therefore the charge would be £65.40. Total £452.40 (I'd want a bloomin' good coat for that!!!!!!!!!!!!) so its 20% max ? + £8 Edited March 4, 2013 by bo diddley 1
Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 Can't be the same record as I'm on about. I paid $1533 for the record and £285.29 in import duty & VAT Oh no deffo not the same record mate, yours sound a shit load rarer. Lesson learned for me is to mention this point (before bidding) to overseas sellers that are not dealers or collectors.
Phild Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 Oh no deffo not the same record mate, yours sound a shit load rarer. Lesson learned for me is to mention this point (before bidding) to overseas sellers that are not dealers or collectors. No. Probably just a shit load more expensive. And it had a blooming chip out the run in groove when it turned up!
Bo Diddley Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 As I mentioned above, I had to pay a (small) charge for a record which I then returned as it wasn't as described. I didn't look into the possibility of reclaiming the charge but.....I wonder if your could reclaim with an expensive item and the charge is THAT big? Also, if you could, what proof would be needed? No. Probably just a shit load more expensive. And it had a blooming chip out the run in groove when it turned up!
Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 No. Probably just a shit load more expensive. And it had a blooming chip out the run in groove when it turned up! That quite freaked me for a sec. My one that turned up this morning was to replace the one a sold a couple of years back that had a chip in the run out groove. That was clearly stated at the time though. I can't remember if it went to Ireland or Spain.
Garethx Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 But that shouldn't make a difference, really. Think of all the shipments that goes on every day within the UK or EU where you don't have to fill in a customs form or declare a value. What would happen in that scenario? I take your point Sebastian, but there is a real difference because of the non-EU status of goods from the US, and indeed the rest of the world. Trying to get reimbursed by the US postal service for the full amount in the case of loss or damage when the declared amount has been falsified is surely going to create a problem for someone in the chain. The increased International charges from the US seem to be an attempt to build insurance and administrative costs into the process on one hand, and to deter untaxed international trade on the other. This scenario has never happened to me but I wonder if anyone has tried to claim say, $1,000 when the declared value for customs authorities is $5. Particularly if the transaction has happened outside Paypal.
Guest in town Mikey Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 Going on Phil's experience. Where would the PO stand on you opening and inspecting the record, before you agreed to pay the extra? If it was damaged, could you then just 'return to sender'?
Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 Going on Phil's experience. Where would the PO stand on you opening and inspecting the record, before you agreed to pay the extra? If it was damaged, could you then just 'return to sender'? I tried that shit this morning mate
TOAD Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 Yes Tim. I think it's VAT. So in theory, using an exchange rate of say £1:$1.55, $600 is £387, therefore the charge would be £65.40. Total £452.40 (I'd want a bloomin' good coat for that!!!!!!!!!!!!) as i said i may not have to pay but i thought id ask and be prepared for a total cost:)
Ernie Andrews Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 Can you actually claim backthe charges if the item was not as decribed and you sent it back and had proof of doing so.? 1
Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 Can you actually claim backthe charges if the item was not as decribed and you sent it back and had proof of doing so.? I think you'd be okay with PayPal, but might struggle with the Treasury.
Steve G Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 Going on Phil's experience. Where would the PO stand on you opening and inspecting the record, before you agreed to pay the extra? If it was damaged, could you then just 'return to sender'? Nice try. But the PO will not let you touch it until you have paid the duty.
Tiberius Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) No, in response to Toads post earlier in the thread. In the case of a coat of $600 value there will be import duty as well as vat to consider. The import duty is dependent upon the style of the coat and the material it is made of. It's a bloody mine field. Edited March 4, 2013 by tiberius
TOAD Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 No, in response to Toads post earlier in the thread. In the case of a coat of $600 value there will be import duty as well as vat to consider. The import duty is dependent upon the style of the coat and the material it is made of. It's a bloody mine field.your jokeing ? Think i will get one made in the uk then 1
Pete S Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 Well I contacted the seller direct on Ebay to ask if he had any further copies of this record, when he said he did, I offered $400 and that was accepted. I paid $423.95 + £58.25 VAT & Post Office charges came to £340.19. Now I happen to know 2 copies of this sold on UK Ebay recently, one for £427.99 & one for £439.00. These two buyers will both have had to whack on 20% VAT + £8.00. So at least I didn't pay £531.80! I still don't think it's worth more than £350. If you're talking about Lost Soul...
JON WILLIS Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 No, in response to Toads post earlier in the thread. In the case of a coat of $600 value there will be import duty as well as vat to consider. The import duty is dependent upon the style of the coat and the material it is made of. It's a bloody mine field. so its 20% max ? + £8 If you get the Tarrif code you can see what percentage duty is payable on the CUSTOMS & EXCISE web site.. 1
Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) I still don't think it's worth more than £350. If you're talking about Lost Soul... It's always been £400 or thereabouts hasn't it - for years? With these last two going for more than that plus the VAT, tis a bit dear though, they're all slightly off centre as well - well this batch. Killer track on the Lost Soul cd though - 'I'm gonna hurt you - Hey Girl' Edited March 4, 2013 by Simsy
Pete S Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 It's always ben £400 or thereabouts hasn't it - for years? With these last two going for more than that plus the VAT, tis a bit dear though, they're all slightly off centre as well - well this batch. Killer track on the Lost Soul cd though - 'I'm gonna hurt you - Hey Girl' You could be right mate, my memory isn't what it was! I'm Gonna Hurt You was an 80's spin somewhere, Hey Girl, I don't know that one
Fuzzj Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 hell fire and every chuffa nokks manship n steve jeffrys 4 bein too dear...
Simsy Posted March 4, 2013 Author Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) You could be right mate, my memory isn't what it was! I'm Gonna Hurt You was an 80's spin somewhere, Hey Girl, I don't know that one 80's spin eh? What label, Raven? The "hey girl" bit comes after "I'm gonna hurt you". Edited March 4, 2013 by Simsy
Pete S Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 80's spin eh? What label, Raven? The "hey girl" bit comes after "I'm gonna hurt you". Sorry Ian thought you were on about two records. Yes I'm Gonna Hurt You was discovered before Secret Of Mine. I first heard it on a Soul Supply LP circa 1988 so it was obviously played before then (Stafford?) They are probably both the same value. 1
John A Posted March 4, 2013 Posted March 4, 2013 80's spin eh? What label, Raven? The "hey girl" bit comes after "I'm gonna hurt you". Also on Raven,,yellow label 1
Simsy Posted March 5, 2013 Author Posted March 5, 2013 Got an email back from Steve Calfee this morning and one major thing I'd overlooked was condition - New. Most of the time these records will be used, so no problem. I suppose I should be grateful for those unplayed half dozen Chinatown's I had a few years back without any of these difficulties.
boba Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 One thing not noted in this thread is that one of the main reasons US sellers are now scared to declare false values is that customs information is all now logged electronically with the USPS and connected to the seller. This started like 6 months ago. Previously it was just a piece of paper on the package with no paper trail going back to the seller.
Dis57 Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 Yesterday I had to cough up £51+ to Parcleforce in custom fees and charges to get my record from the states that I'd already been charged $45 express postal fees by the seller which however took over 2 weeks to arrive! Then to further really p**** me off. today another customs charge of £21+ for another record, makes buying from the states totally out of the question, they say things come in threes, well I'm awaiting a further delivery and can only assume the same outcome, last US purchase for me I think.
Pete S Posted March 5, 2013 Posted March 5, 2013 It'll probably take 3 or 4 months before the US sellers realise they are not getting half the business from the UK as they used to. See what happens then maybe.
Mr Smithy Posted March 6, 2013 Posted March 6, 2013 It'll probably take 3 or 4 months before the US sellers realise they are not getting half the business from the UK as they used to. See what happens then maybe. Nope, we know it now. and there's really FA we can do about it unless you got any 100 watt ideas
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