20Th Century Fox Records

[Roburt]

The thread about the Cornelius Dwyer 45 got me thinking what a strange concern 20th Century (Fox) Records was.

20th Century Fox was (of course) originally a large successful film company. They had movie soundtracks & songs from popular films under their ownership plus of course they ran the 20th Century Fox Symphony Orchestra that provided the background soundtrack on films as well as playing a few live gigs in LA.

The film executives wanted to exploit the music they had under their control more effectively and (as records were selling in much greater numbers by the mid to late 50's), they started a record company division in 1958 (20th Century Records).

In 1963, this was renamed 20th Century Fox Records. Although the parent company was Hollywood based, they decided to set up the record labels HQ in New York (where many big record companies had their home base). Even though they set on an experienced team to run the record label, they struggled to make a massive impact (hit wise). So around spring 1966 they re-organised the management, the old guys moving on and a new team taking over. This didn't really seem to work and the label soon went into hibernation for a few months. However in July 1966 they re-established the record label's west coast office and poached Jackie Mills from Mainstream Records to act as A&R chief. At the same time, Seymour Poe (Exec VP of the film division) signed a deal for ABC Records to act as distributor for the label. Things got going again in 1967 with product being sourced by both the NY and LA offices of the label.

Once again however, the label failed to make money and after initially closing the west coast office (which Calif's Jesse James had been signed to), in 1970 the parent company shut the label down again.

But the record biz was very lucrative back then and so the film guys decided it was worth another try in 1972. This time, they did manage to get lots of success, mainly from April 1973 onwards with the likes of Barry White spearheading the hits they enjoyed.

BUT back to 1966 ........ as the label was fading away back then, it's releases became more random. TV had become big and was having more impact than film, so I guess the film guys got involved again and as a result 'Batman' Adam West was signed to a record deal in March 66. A 45 followed around April and this had the Catalogue No. # 627.

The Cornelius Dwyer 45 became 20th Century Fox 45 # 637 not too long afterwards ... this must have been one of the last 45 releases by the failing label (which probably accounts for its rarity .... does issue copies exist ??).

Of course, with 20th Century being a strong international company, the label had numerous overseas licensing deals. So loads of stuff from the label escaped around the world, many via the deal they had done with EMI (who placed the releases on its Stateside label in various countries).

Anyone here have a list of the last 45's the label released and when in 1966 these escaped ???

Edited March 1, 2013 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Of course, the guys from the successful film division always kept an overview of things at the record label.

Film execs knew the value of a star name and so decided to land one for the record label.

Mary Wells was in dispute with Berry Gordy at Motown and so she was poached in summer 1964.

She was tempted to the label by a large 'signing-on fee' plus the carrot of possible roles in films and so she duly joined the label.

Though top record producers & songwriters were hired to cut tracks on her, none really repeated the level of success she had enjoyed at Motown (though she did have 2 R&B Top 20 hits early in 65 -- "Use Your Head" & "Never, Never Leave Me").

By the end of 1965, she had moved on to Atlantic and the label was left without a figurehead artist again.

[Roburt]

Another question .....

....... how many 45's were bought in from indie labels in 65 / 66 and released on 20th Century Fox's (TCF) Fox Family label ?

.............. and were any of these soul tracks ???

[Roburt]

Back to the Cornelius Dwyer 45 ....

...... is much of anything known about the guy ? .... was he white or black ?

..... was he west coast or east coast based (I'd guess at east coast, maybe the Philly area) ??

I know a fair bit about the guy who produced his tracks .... R. P. Marcucci.

Bob Marcucci had started out managing 'manufactured' film / pop stars in the late 50's / early 60's.

His biggest successes came with Fabian and Frankie Avalon. He had borrowed a wad of cash to start Chancellor Records around 1956.

At Chancellor, his biggest success came with Claudine Clark though the likes of Josef Damiano & Fram Lori did little.

He next signed the 'Fabian styled' Mark Valentino with Swan in 1962. He also signed Johnny Burnett to Chancellor that year.

In 65 he was trying to get hits on a guy named John Andrea (guess Marcucci invented names for most of the artists he signed).

The Chancellor label eventually collapsed and he moved on to form Robert P. Marcucci Productions. It must have been for that outfit that he cut Cornelius Dwyer and pacted him with 20th Century Fox. Fabian was signed as an actor to 20th Century Fox which is probably how Mancucci got close to the guys at the company.

He reactivated Chancellor in 68 but it didn't last long. Then he started up the Romar label around 1970 and this enjoyed its biggest UK success with a (NS played) instro from the R.P.M. Generation -- "Rona's Theme". This had started life as a TV show theme & so his Hollywood connections probably helped land the 45 on his label).

After Romar went under, he teamed up with Tony Camillo (Gladys Knight, etc) to manage the likes of Chelsea Records artist Ronnie Williams. He was still managing singers from his LA office in 1974 but without much success.

The 1980 film 'The Idolmaker' was based on his life / career. He passed away in 2011.

Edited February 28, 2013 by Roburt

[Roburt]

Guess the R.P.M Generation track ended up on Romar coz it was masterminded by John D'Andrea (who no doubt was the same guy as the 60's singer John Andrea).

[45cellar]

Different Label Variations

[Roburt]

"Use Your Head" was Mary's biggest seller on 20th Century Fox.

It peaked at No. 13 on the (Billboard) national R&B chart and even managed to make it onto the national Pop Top 40 charts.

It makes sense then that this 45 would have been pressed up on both the west & east coasts (to meet peak demand).

Both R&B and Pop radio stations across the US would have been sourced with promo copies.

...... and thus there were 2 x demo copies PLUS 2 x issue copies of the 45 manufactured.

[Tony Smith]

Another question .....

....... how many 45's were bought in from indie labels in 65 / 66 and released on 20th Century Fox's (TCF) Fox Family label ?

.............. and were any of these soul tracks ???

Tony Borders, Billy Washington,Grover Mitchell & Joan Moody, not sure if these were leased in though, a Kent CD covers some of TCF label (can't remember which at the moment).

[Dave Moore]

Back to the Cornelius Dwyer 45 ....

...... is much of anything known about the guy ? .... was he white or black ?

..... was he west coast or east coast based (I'd guess at east coast, maybe the Philly area) ??

I know a fair bit about the guy who produced his tracks .... R. P. Marcucci.

Bob Marcucci had started out managing 'manufactured' film / pop stars in the late 50's / early 60's.

His biggest successes came with Fabian and Frankie Avalon. He had borrowed a wad of cash to start Chancellor Records around 1956.

At Chancellor, his biggest success came with Claudine Clark though the likes of Josef Damiano & Fram Lori did little.

He next signed the 'Fabian styled' Mark Valentino with Swan in 1962. He also signed Johnny Burnett to Chancellor that year.

In 65 he was trying to get hits on a guy named John Andrea (guess Marcucci invented names for most of the artists he signed).

The Chancellor label eventually collapsed and he moved on to form Robert P. Marcucci Productions. It must have been for that outfit that he cut Cornelius Dwyer and pacted him with 20th Century Fox. Fabian was signed as an actor to 20th Century Fox which is probably how Mancucci got close to the guys at the company.

He reactivated Chancellor in 68 but it didn't last long. Then he started up the Romar label around 1970 and this enjoyed its biggest UK success with a (NS played) instro from the R.P.M. Generation -- "Rona's Theme". This had started life as a TV show theme & so his Hollywood connections probably helped land the 45 on his label).

After Romar went under, he teamed up with Tony Camillo (Gladys Knight, etc) to manage the likes of Chelsea Records artist Ronnie Williams. He was still managing singers from his LA office in 1974 but without much success.

The 1980 film 'The Idolmaker' was based on his life / career. He passed away in 2011.

Marcucci was quite a mover and shaker in the recording industry in his early days. His Chancellor set up was distributed by ABC which also owned American Bandstand and as such had a vested interest in promoting his acts on that particular outlet, especially Fabian and Frankie Avalon who were rivals to Cameo's Bobby Rydell etc. Marcucci's initial contact with Hollywood came through his pre Beatlemania A&R roster as they were seen as matinee idols and film companies were more than happy to partner their business with the recording industry in order to exploit that market. Both Fabian and Avalon enjoyed film success under Marcucci's stewardship of their careers.

As music fans we often dismiss the business acumen of people as we concentrate on the artistic side of things but guys like Bob Marcucci and his partner Peter De'Angelis weren't just businessmen they were record producers, old school record guys. I think to state that he "started life managing 'manufactered' Pop stars" does him a little injustice to be honest. I'd go along with the sterile style of film and the connections to musicals being a cynical exploitation of the Italian Matinee Idol genre that they developed but they had to have the songs, the studios, the techniqiues, the production nouse to develop their artists so that the teenage record buying public would buy their product. "The Idolmaker" is a little syrupy in places but also accurately portrays the era, even if the facts are somewhat airbrushed at times.

Chancellor didn't so much collapse due to a lack of artistic talent but rather drowned under the Brit invasion tsunami, as did many other (and bigger) labels. Once Freddie and The Dreamers '"We Wear Short Shorts" could outsell Dee Dee Sharp or The Tymes in their home town - The game was up!

Good thread John.

Regards,

Dave

[Roburt]

A montage showing how the Record Company's label artwork evolved with time ............

[45cellar]

Two from period of ABC Records Distribution

[45cellar]

SPAIN :

ITALY :

[Roburt]

Seeing as I posted up a Jesse James 45 in post # 10, I thought it might interest a few here if I put up an extract from my bio on Jesse James ............

... the extract relates to his periods signed to 20th Century (+ the intervening years) ..............

In May 67, Jesse came to the attention of 20^th Century Fox Records' Hosea Wilson. Signed to a record deal with the label, money was advanced to allow Jesse to cut a full album. At Sierra Sounds Recording Studio (Berkeley) the whole project was quickly completed, with Willie Hoskins handling arranger’s duties. The two part “Believe In Me Baby” was the obvious cut to form his initial 20^th Century single. With the labels promotions team on the case, the 45 took off immediately. In early September 1967 it entered the national charts where it stayed for 2 months, attaining a Top 50 placing. With a hit now under his belt, 20^th Century released a (self titled) album and they also coupled “Thank You Darlin” with “Bring My Baby Back” (yet again) to form his next single. This outing failed to chart and so two further tracks were lifted from his album to form a third 20^th Century 45. “Green Power” was the side of this record that was promoted, however it’s the flip, “If You’re Lonely (Take My Hand)”, that has really stood up to the test of time. By now Hosea Wilson had taken over as his manager and this led to a release on the Uni label prior to Hosea starting his own labels (Zea & Zay Records). Jesse’s first outing on Zea, “Don’t Nobody Want To Get Married”, returned him to the national charts in August 1970. The track rose to reach #18 on Billboard, so becoming the biggest hit of his entire career (its success resulted in the single gaining a UK release on Mojo). “I Need You Baby” (Zea) became Jesse’s next single and this classy ballad had him on the charts again in April 1971.

Further chart success came with “At Last” (on Zay at the end of 1971) and “I Need Your Love So Bad” followed in 1972 (“I Know I’ll Never Find Another One” being used as the flip to both 45’s). A return to 20^th Century Records occurred in summer 74 when “You Ought To Be Here With Me” was issued by the label. But it was Jesse’s next outing, “If You Want A Love Affair” (arranged by H B Barnum and produced by Ron Carson), that returned him to the charts in July 1975. Strangely, 20^th Century didn’t issue a follow-up single and so it was left to Ron Carson to put out Jesse’s next effort on his Happy Fox label.

[Roburt]

In Jesse's first stint with 20th Century, he was initially handled by the label's west coast office (by Hosea Wilson).

But the label closed down its west coast office and so Jesse was transferred across to be dealt with by the label's New York office.

Things didn't improve though and he was left without a record deal when the label was closed down.

They didn't really do right by him during his 2nd stint at the label either ..... talk about being jinxed.

[Dave Moore]

Always wondered about Thank You Darlin' and If You're Lonely. Two very similar songs/records but so different from anything else he recorded.

Regards,

Dave

[Roburt]

This Philly based label PROBABLY had something to do with 20th Century Fox calling the 1st incarnation of their record label just 20th Fox .....

[Roburt]

Always wondered about Thank You Darlin' and If You're Lonely. Two very similar songs/records but so different from anything else he recorded.

Dave

When soul artists made LP's back then, little thought went into what went on them (Marvin Gaye's 'What's Going On' changed everything but that was still 3 years down the line). If an album was trying to secure sales off the back of a big hit 45, then it would be rush recorded and would contain sound-alike tracks & covers of other recent soul hits.

I'd say Jesse's album (when recorded) was initially meant to sell to the people that went to see his live shows (and he was a very popular draw on the west coast back then). As with his live show I'm sure he was trying to cover all the bases when it came to the sound of the various tracks he cut.

Down the years, he cut Impressions, James Brown, Chicago, Detroit, Memphis & 'big city soul' sounding tracks. Like many other singers trying to establish his own sound, he was just going with what was selling at the time to remain current (& thus keep the work coming in).

[Swifty]

Hope you don't mind me putting this up but I think it's the dogs ! Just sold a couple of issues and got a nice W/D , also yhey're on really thick Vinly.

Swifty

P.S mine also had 'Take me in your Arms' after the main title

Edited March 1, 2013 by SWIFTY

[Dave Moore]

One of my favourite releases on the label. This was Skip's first record for the label too.I'm not sure whether this is the same Skip as the famous tap dancer/singer but it may well be. I know this Skip Cunningham did TV show presenting. I did research him a while back but my notes are well buried. We revived this a fair few years ago at Hitsville and it seemed to go down well.

Regards,

Dave

[Guest penny]

I have a nice girl / r&b 45 on the label - joyce troyano - I cry for the boy. Mik used to play it out

[Roburt]

One of my favourite releases on the label .... Skip Cunningham .......... he did TV show presenting.

Dave

Dave,

I'd guess that this is the guy who recorded for Kapp (61) & Coral (63) before 20th Century Fox .... he seemed to be both a song & dance man going by this TV show clip from 1964 ....

Below is a photo of the dancer. Even though it seems to date from later than 1964 (going by how old he looks in it), I'd say this guy shows a great similarity to the guy in the clip above. The dance guy was born in 1936 & had a spell in the army (around the mid to late 50's), so that would make him 25 years old in 1961 and 28 yrs old in the TV clip.

Edited March 2, 2013 by Roburt

[Funky 4 Corners]

There is just one Impressions 45 I don't have and have had it on my wants list for yonks - `All Through the Night` / `Meanwhile Back in my Heart` 20th C Fox 172. Has anyone ever seen a copy........and on the topic of elusive 45s anyone seen Wilson Pickett `That Kind of Love` / `I've Come a Long Way` UK Red Atlantic 584173?

[Roburt]

A 20th Fox 45 release I've always been after (NOT) is Rolf Harris' "Tie Me Kangaroo Down Sport" which was out as Fox # 207 in August 1960.

Wobble boards were provided to guests on TV shows such as Clay Cole's Music Show in New York & the record was played on the show & members of the studio audience provided with boards.

STRANGELY this track was a big US national R&B chart hit when re-issued on Epic (Top 20 Billboard R&B hit in summer 1963).

Wonder if the 20th Fox version of the 45 is rare ........ should I be chasing a copy if it is rare .... decisions, decisions.

[Dave Moore]

Here's another we dug back out a few years ago. Always liked it.

Regards,

Dave

[Ljblanken]

Tony Borders, Billy Washington,Grover Mitchell & Joan Moody, not sure if these were leased in though, a Kent CD covers some of TCF label (can't remember which at the moment).

my fave...Joan Moody - music to my ears

[45cellar]

NEW ZEALAND :

 

[Guest veep1296]

The other Jimmy Bee 45 on 20th Century is a cracker too  "Talkin Bout Love"

 

 

[Robbk]

Dave,

I'd guess that this is the guy who recorded for Kapp (61) & Coral (63) before 20th Century Fox .... he seemed to be both a song & dance man going by this TV show clip from 1964 ....

 

Below is a photo of the dancer. Even though it seems to date from later than 1964 (going by how old he looks in it), I'd say this guy shows a great similarity to the guy in the clip above. The dance guy was born in 1936 & had a spell in the army (around the mid to late 50's), so that would make him 25 years old in 1961 and 28 yrs old in the TV clip.

After listening to both his 20th Century Fox record and watching the clip, I can say, without a doubt that both are the same person.  One can hear his "trained voice" in both, with similar tone quality.  I've always thought that the Fox artist must have also been a "Broadway" wannabee.  I don't remember hearing his Coral cuts.  Are they good?

Edited March 9, 2013 by RobbK

[Roburt]

Another TCF label 45 ....... this one has input from NY's Otis Pollard but I guess it has to be another southern cut ....

 

 

[Roburt]

The other Jimmy Bee 45 on 20th Century is a cracker too  "Talkin Bout Love"

 

The Jimmy Bee cuts were produced by Jackie Mills who had hits on the likes of Bobby Sherman and was head of A & R @ 20th Century Fox Records in 1966 (working out of their LA office). Mills seemed to work mostly with white pop artists (but he did also produce the Vel-Vets 20th C F tracks that were released around the same time as the JimB's).

 

Jimmy Bee's "If It Wasn't For Love" was tipped by Billboard as a likely R&B chart entry in early July 67.

 

Mills went on to own / operate Larrabee Studios (LA) from 1969 -- this grew into one of the biggest record studios in LA.

..... BUT ... JUST WHO WAS JIMMY BEE ....... (A guy called James B???? in real life I'd say).   ANYONE KNOW ?

Edited March 11, 2013 by Roburt