B Side Condition

[Gogger]

ok you have a top sound worth a lot of money , the b side has a scuff not affecting play , does this affect the price , or any record that you are selling . thanks in advance

Edited February 23, 2013 by gogger

[Premium Stuff]

Yes

Richard

[dthedrug]

HI I woud say some, many UK RARE RECORDS THAT HAVE BEEN PLAYED OVER THE YEARS, HAVE REALY BAD FLIP SIDES, NORMALY THE OFFICIAL A SIDE, SO IT WOULD NOT BOVVER ME, HOWEVER MANY PEOPLE TODAY HAVE A DIFFERANT VEIW TO ME, AS THEY LOOK ON THEIR RECORDS A A FUTURE INVESTMENT, AND EXPECT TO GET THEIR CASH BACK, GOOD LUCK TO THEMS TYPES DAVE K

OH ! YEH I REMEMBER NOW, I SHOULD BE AT AN ALLNIGHTER NEAR WOLVES? SEE YOU THERE!

[Trev Thomas]

it does if you want it for the side thats knackered

[dthedrug]

HI ALL MORNIN SOULSTERS, CREAM CRACKERD? NOT ME PAL, TRUE, BUT WHY WOULD YOU WANT TO BY A KNACKERD 45 SAYS I? HAVE YOU EVER TRIED TO LIST HOW MANY GREAT 2 SIDER SOUL 45s THAT WERE ISSUWED IN THE UK IN THE WED IN THE UK IN THAT HAD 2 GREAT SIDES, NOT THAT MANY OK SUNNY BOY DAVE K

[Pete S]

No it doesn't make a lot of difference. I only ever grade the A side, if there is a problem with the B side I will mention it.

[kevinsoulman]

I LISTED BABY RECONSIDER ON EBAY RECENTLY ON SOUL SOUNDS,

LISTED IT VG MINUS THE SELLER RETURNED IT AS THE B SIDE WAS UNPLAYABLE,

AS LONG AS YOU ARE PREPARED TO TAKE THE RETURN THE ODD TIME I DON'T THINK PEOPLE ARE TOO BOTHERED ,

PROPER COLLECTORS WOULD BE LOOKING FOR A FIRST ISSUE RECORDING ANYWAYS

KEV

[Dave Rimmer]

I answered a want on here just before Christmas. It was for quite an expensive record (£300), and the guy asked quite sensible questions about the condition of the record. However, at no point did he mention the B side. As far as I was concerned he asked for a title, we discussed condition, and he paid me.

I was a little pissed off to say the least when I got a PM from him saying he had posted the record back to me because the 'B' side "has a few crackles".

If he'd asked about the B side I'd have played it and checked what condition it was in. It wouldn't have made the record any cheaper though, because the £300 price tag was for the A side. It wasn't £150 each side.

It arrived back safely, and I refunded his money. It would have been nice if he'd discussed it with me before sending it back, but he's just ensured that I'll never answer any of his other wants.

[Gogger]

thanks for all the answers , don't really care about the b side myself unless it's a double sider , it's just that the b side condition hardly ever gets mentioned and i just wondered if it would drag down a price , thanks again john

[davidwapples]

the record grading should apply to both sides , if one side is in worse condition then this should be mentioned by the seller . nothing worse than getting a record and finding the b side is scratched and not mentioned especially if its a double sider , the value should be reduced considerably if one side is damaged too much even though its not the in demand side

but as we know with northern soul people pay more than they should for records

[Markw]

I answered a want on here just before Christmas. It was for quite an expensive record (£300), and the guy asked quite sensible questions about the condition of the record. However, at no point did he mention the B side. As far as I was concerned he asked for a title, we discussed condition, and he paid me.

I was a little pissed off to say the least when I got a PM from him saying he had posted the record back to me because the 'B' side "has a few crackles".

If he'd asked about the B side I'd have played it and checked what condition it was in. It wouldn't have made the record any cheaper though, because the £300 price tag was for the A side. It wasn't £150 each side.

It arrived back safely, and I refunded his money. It would have been nice if he'd discussed it with me before sending it back, but he's just ensured that I'll never answer any of his other wants.

£150 each side!! Love it Dave, love it.

[Tiberius]

No it doesn't make a lot of difference. I only ever grade the A side, if there is a problem with the B side I will mention it.

By A side I take it you mean preferred "play" side (for want of a better term)? Seems to me to only grade one side of a disc would be potentially problematic, but, as a record dealer, you clearly know what you're doing. Myself I like the grading to be overall rather than just the "play" side.....saves any confusion &, unbeknown to the seller, I might even like that side and want it to play well.

[Modernsoulsucks]

Just to avoid any confusion here the site grading and the site policy is that the grade reflects both sides of a 45.

To be honest I hadn't the slightest idea that there may be people out there who would describe a 45 as M- if B-side was in a lesser condition. It is an overall grade for the record, not just one side.

Any defects should be pointed out before sale to avoid buyers receiving goods they may otherwise have not bought. I see Mr. Rimmer did the right thing by standing behind what he sold and refunding but it all could have been avoided if the "crackles" had been mentioned.

As for how value is affected by problems with the B-side I would say that depends entirely on demand for the 45, value, and the person who is buying it. I wouldn't assume that because a seller feels that the b-side is unimportant that the buyer is of the same opinion.

I dont think this is likely to be something that occurs regularly. In my experience conditions of A and B sides tend to be overall very similar.

Sellers can ask what they want for a 45 but if you are charging something like book value for a M- 45 you cant really ignore it if the other side is not in that condition, particularly if we are talking numerous marks or scratches.

That should be stated to avoid disputes arising.

ROD [Forum Moderator]

[Guest Ivor Jones]

Hi all,

Just wanna say that I totally agree with Rod on this issue..... Likewise, I had no idea anyone,(particularly a record dealer), would only grade the popular play side. The b sides are quite often of much interest to those of us who appreciate other types of Soul than "Northern" and personally speaking, there's nothing more annoying than spending a sizeable amount of money on a record only to find its been poorly graded....as Rod says, if the b Side has flaws , then they need to be mentioned in the listing.... Not necessarily a price reduction I would say but if the other side is of interest to a buyer then they know to look elsewhere for their copy don't they ?

So the answer is a very definite YES... The b Side condition is important because very often they are !

Best, Ivor

[Premium Stuff]

Rod

Thank you

You are spot on and right on as usual

Much appreciated

And I would urge all soulsourcers to heed Rod's wise words

Cheers

Richard

[Floyd]

Hi

as a collector not dj  when paying a lot of money for as record i think any defects on b side should be noted, just bought a copy of fiestas think smart which was advertised as EX++ fantastic copy

i sent seller message asking if disc had any warps and was vinyl and labels EX++ both sides

got a short reply - yes as advertiised, when disc finally arrived  think smart side was great just as advertised but  B side was vg+ at best scratches and scuffs  , although it didnt really affect play too much

when youve spend your hard earnt money on something and it then arrives but its not as advertised

it does spoil the whole experience and then if you complain your called fussy, wonder if it would be the same if shoe was on the other foot

just my opinion

ATB

Floyd

Edited March 9, 2013 by floyd

[Pete S]

Hi

as a collector not dj  when paying a lot of money for as record i think any defects on b side should be noted, just bought a copy of fiestas think smart which was advertised as EX++ fantastic copy

i sent seller message asking if disc had any warps and was vinyl and labels EX++ both sides

got a short reply - yes as advertiised, when disc finally arrived  think smart side was great just as advertised but  B side was vg+ at best scratches and scuffs  , although it didnt really affect play too much

when youve spend your hard earnt money on something and it then arrives but its not as advertised

it does spoil the whole experience and then if you complain your called fussy, wonder if it would be the same if shoe was on the other foot

just my opinion

ATB

Floyd

 

Yeah but there's fussy - and then there's fussy

[Pete S]

To be honest I hadn't the slightest idea that there may be people out there who would describe a 45 as M- if B-side was in a lesser condition. It is an overall grade for the record, not just one side.

ROD [Forum Moderator]

 

99% of records, no, 100% of records I sell are for the A side of a popular Northern Soul record, not for the B side.  Half the people wouldn't care if it didn't even have a b side.  I have sold thousands and thousands of records over the last 20 years and only one person has ever returned a record because of a problem with the B side.  If the condition isn't the same as the A sie I will mention it, but I'm not bringing down the grading of the record from M- to VG because the B side might have a problem.  It's still M- because I'm selling the popular, play side.  It will be M- (B side only VG) in the description.

[Floyd]

Yeah but there's fussy - and then there's fussy

 

Hi Pete

thought you might stick your two penneth worth in and i didnt really want to get personal or mention names

the above comment  was not about a record bought from you so i dont really see the need for petty comments

as its none of your business and im entitled to my opinion and it seems that others on here have the same opinion as me and others dont, when you spend hundreds of pounds on a record and youve been quite specific in what you require (condition wise)

i cant see whats wrong in being disappointed when  it doesnt come as advertised, some dealers or sellers should go to spec savers or at least give the buyer the full description so  they can decide if they want to bid/buy or not

ATB

Floyd

Edited March 9, 2013 by floyd

[Floyd]

Hi all,

Just wanna say that I totally agree with Rod on this issue..... Likewise, I had no idea anyone,(particularly a record dealer), would only grade the popular play side. The b sides are quite often of much interest to those of us who appreciate other types of Soul than "Northern" and personally speaking, there's nothing more annoying than spending a sizeable amount of money on a record only to find its been poorly graded....as Rod says, if the b Side has flaws , then they need to be mentioned in the listing.... Not necessarily a price reduction I would say but if the other side is of interest to a buyer then they know to look elsewhere for their copy don't they ?

So the answer is a very definite YES... The b Side condition is important because very often they are !

Best, Ivor

Hi Ivor couldnt agree more

ATB

Floyd

[Weego]

Just be as specific as possible in describing the record, and possibly provide photos and/or soundclips. That's what I do when I sell a record, and that's what I ask when I buy, especially on pricey ones.

 

Mickaël

[Pete S]

Hi Pete

thought you might stick your two penneth worth in and i didnt really want to get personal or mention names

the above comment  was not about a record bought from you so i dont really see the need for petty comments

as its none of your business and im entitled to my opinion and it seems that others on here have the same opinion as me and others dont, when you spend hundreds of pounds on a record and youve been quite specific in what you require (condition wise)

i cant see whats wrong in being disappointed when  it doesnt come as advertised, some dealers or sellers should go to spec savers or at least give the buyer the full description so  they can decide if they want to bid/buy or not

ATB

Floyd

 

What are you on about, I wasn't referring to you...

[Floyd]

What are you on about, I wasn't referring to you...

Hi Pete

in that case i apologise, its just that as you know, me and you once had a misunderstanding over the condition of a record

and it seemed strange and coincidental that you should  add that particular reply to my quote

 

Floyd

[Pete S]

Hi Pete

in that case i apologise, its just that as you know, me and you once had a misunderstanding over the condition of a record

and it seemed strange and coincidental that you should  add that particular reply to my quote

 

Floyd

 

Floyd this is Gods honest truth, I wasn't sure if you were the same Floyd! 

[Modernsoulsucks]

Pete what im saying is that if there are defects on B it should be mentioned. So a record that is M- on A but VG+ on B it should be stated preferably with a short description.

 

You wouldn't take the middle road there and call the 45 VG++ [or EX] you'd just list both sides.

 

Sure I see that a lot of the time on Ebay.

 

ROD

[Pete S]

Pete what im saying is that if there are defects on B it should be mentioned. So a record that is M- on A but VG+ on B it should be stated preferably with a short description.

 

You wouldn't take the middle road there and call the 45 VG++ [or EX] you'd just list both sides.

 

Sure I see that a lot of the time on Ebay.

 

ROD

 

Yes I think I agree Rod, I thought you were saying that if the A is mint but the B is vg, you have to grade it down - I was just saying keep the M grade but mention the B side condition

[Modernsoulsucks]

I meant that the record should have an overall grade but if it differs between two sides you cant just say its M- because of one side.

 

In our hypothetical case it would be M-/VG+

 

ROD

[Phild]

99% of records, no, 100% of records I sell are for the A side of a popular Northern Soul record, not for the B side.  Half the people wouldn't care if it didn't even have a b side.  I have sold thousands and thousands of records over the last 20 years and only one person has ever returned a record because of a problem with the B side.  If the condition isn't the same as the A sie I will mention it, but I'm not bringing down the grading of the record from M- to VG because the B side might have a problem.  It's still M- because I'm selling the popular, play side.  It will be M- (B side only VG) in the description.

99% of records, no, 100% of records I sell are for the A side of a popular Northern Soul record, not for the B side.  Half the people wouldn't care if it didn't even have a b side.  I have sold thousands and thousands of records over the last 20 years and only one person has ever returned a record because of a problem with the B side.  If the condition isn't the same as the A sie I will mention it, but I'm not bringing down the grading of the record from M- to VG because the B side might have a problem.  It's still M- because I'm selling the popular, play side.  It will be M- (B side only VG) in the description.

I agree 100% however, I had a record returned recently (Jimmy Wallace) because of the B side condition. To be honest I don't think I'd even played the B side

[Dave Pinch]

so if the mello souls came up for sale at £10k in ex but the b side had a bad scuff that made it skip badly it could only be £5k

[Premium Stuff]

so if the mello souls came up for sale at £10k in ex but the b side had a bad scuff that made it skip badly it could only be £5k

 

But that record is not really representative, so you can probably write the rules separately on that and a few others.

 

However, with the majority of records that are sold, I am right behind Rod on this.

 

Plus, sellers should not second guess that buyers are only interested in one side. Some collectors collect across genres (e.g. northern, deep, sweet soul) and there are other collecting scenes too that will be interested in the non-Northern side. Plus, we all like finding a 'hidden b-side' don't we?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[NEV]

Some records that have rough " A " sides go for a good whack these days ..depends on rarity and demand for those elusive originals !

[Premium Stuff]

How would you list Nelson Sanders on Rambler?  By the Northern side 'Mojo Man' only - or by the deep side 'I'm Lonely'?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Dave Pinch]

i

 

But that record is not really representative, so you can probably write the rules separately on that and a few others.

 

However, with the majority of records that are sold, I am right behind Rod on this.

 

Plus, sellers should not second guess that buyers are only interested in one side. Some collectors collect across genres (e.g. northern, deep, sweet soul) and there are other collecting scenes too that will be interested in the non-Northern side. Plus, we all like finding a 'hidden b-side' don't we?

 

Cheers

 

Richard

i agree partly richard but the mello soul and a few others are not subjective..its got to be all or nothing at all..but imo if the buyer is fussy when sending pm`s about a 45 they should make enquiries about the flip

[Tiberius]

I'd be interested how anyone who only grades a 45's supposed "play" side would grade something like BILLY HAMBRIC on DRUM, or any of the other multitude of well known "2 siders".  Different set of rules?  What about LP's ?   How does the seller know which track I want the LP for?

[Dave Pinch]

ive only had this problem once on here out of over 1000 records sold........so i says send it back the guy offers me 60% of my asking price.. i say no chance send it back...the record never came back.......just some cnut trying it on to get something on the cheap

[Pete S]

I'd be interested how anyone who only grades a 45's supposed "play" side would grade something like BILLY HAMBRIC on DRUM, or any of the other multitude of well known "2 siders".  Different set of rules?  What about LP's ?   How does the seller know which track I want the LP for?

 

It's pretty obvious you'd grade both sides, what a daft question.

[Dave Pinch]

I'd be interested how anyone who only grades a 45's supposed "play" side would grade something like BILLY HAMBRIC on DRUM, or any of the other multitude of well known "2 siders".  Different set of rules?  What about LP's ?   How does the seller know which track I want the LP for?

naturally both sides will be taken into account for billy......as for lp`s  i grade on overall condition and tracks that could be played seeing as this is sort of a dance scene forum.......if its anything oddball/off the wall hopefully the buyer will pm me about it but if the overall vinyl is clean they should play good

[Tiberius]

It's pretty obvious you'd grade both sides, what a daft question.

So double standards then.  As a buyer I would expect a sellers grading to be consistent.  But as it stands I have to use my powers of ESP to decide if you, the seller, deem the B side to be of interest to me.   Sorry, Pete but it's your answer that's daft not my question.

[Premium Stuff]

ive only had this problem once on here out of over 1000 records sold........so i says send it back the guy offers me 60% of my asking price.. i say no chance send it back...the record never came back.......just some cnut trying it on to get something on the cheap

 

Just thinking how some buyers would look at this.

 

They are expecting a record that is all round as graded, both sides, as there are no additional features or defects noted.

 

When the record arrives they are happy with the 'main side' but are disappointed about the condition of the 'b-side'. They contact the seller asking for a discount - in the same way I'm sure many buyers do when they get a record they reckon is graded too high.

 

When asked to return the record they decide to hold onto it as they have chased it for years, and doubt they would get it again easily. 

 

So they decide to put it down to experience, but remain dissatisfied about what in their view is a poorly graded record because the grade on the two sides was different and the defects should have been pointed out accurately by the seller - especially if the seller is genuinely interested in 'customer satisfaction'.

 

That would be the other perspective I guess.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

Edited March 10, 2013 by Premium Stuff

[Pete S]

So double standards then.  As a buyer I would expect a sellers grading to be consistent.  But as it stands I have to use my powers of ESP to decide if you, the seller, deem the B side to be of interest to me.   Sorry, Pete but it's your answer that's daft not my question.

 

I have said twice on this thread that the A side is graded and the B side will be graded separately if it's in a different condition to the A side.  Which part can't you understand?

[davidwapples]

Just thinking how some buyers would look at this.

 

They are expecting a record that is all round as graded, both sides, as there are no additional features or defects noted.

 

When the record arrives they are happy with the 'main side' but are disappointed about the condition of the 'b-side'. They contact the seller asking for a discount - in the same way I'm sure many buyers do when they get a record they reckon is graded too high.

 

When asked to return the record they decide to hold onto it as they have chased it for years, and doubt they would get it again easily. 

 

So they decide to put it down to experience, but remain dissatisfied about what in their view is a poorly graded record because the grade on the two sides was different and the defects should have been pointed out accurately by the seller - especially if the seller is genuinely interested in 'customer satisfaction'.

 

That would be the other perspective I guess.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

I have kept a couple of records that really should have been returned due to the bad condition of the b side ie jump/skip on them

 

They took me ages to get a copy at a price i could afford to pay but i was not happy doing this ,  the 2 dealers that i bought them from now have lost all my future business and i have found other dealers to buy from that i am  happy with

 

[Tiberius]

I have said twice on this thread that the A side is graded and the B side will be graded separately if it's in a different condition to the A side.  Which part can't you understand?

"99% of records, no, 100% of records I sell are for the A side of a popular Northern Soul record, not for the B side.  Half the people wouldn't care if it didn't even have a b side."  Maybe this isn't clear then.  The suggestion here is you do not grade the B side as a; 100% of the time the B side is of no interest.  b;the half of people that do care don't matter as you only consider the half that don't.

[Phild]

I buy tons of records from ebay, private dealers, well known dealers etc etc and unless it's a double sider I couldn't give a flying feck about the condition of the "other" side.

 

I would rarely play it and then only out of curiosity.

 

Obviously that only applies to stuff that I know. ,I buy stuff blind as well and in those cases take my chances.

[Premium Stuff]

I have kept a couple of records that really should have been returned due to the bad condition of the b side ie jump/skip on them

 

They took me ages to get a copy at a price i could afford to pay but i was not happy doing this ,  the 2 dealers that i bought them from now have lost all my future business and i have found other dealers to buy from that i am  happy with

 

 

Exactly 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Dave Pinch]

I have kept a couple of records that really should have been returned due to the bad condition of the b side ie jump/skip on them

 

They took me ages to get a copy at a price i could afford to pay but i was not happy doing this ,  the 2 dealers that i bought them from now have lost all my future business and i have found other dealers to buy from that i am  happy with

 

you should have returned them...your decision

[Dave Pinch]

Exactly 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

cant help thinking youre a label collector and not a `sound` collector

[Pete S]

"99% of records, no, 100% of records I sell are for the A side of a popular Northern Soul record, not for the B side.  Half the people wouldn't care if it didn't even have a b side."  Maybe this isn't clear then.  The suggestion here is you do not grade the B side as a; 100% of the time the B side is of no interest.  b;the half of people that do care don't matter as you only consider the half that don't.

 

No, where are you coming from, taking me to task about things that have never happened and don't affect you in the slightest, my customers matter, and they keep coming back again and again and again...20 odd years and counting...which makes me think I probably know what I'm talking about.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Pete S

[Premium Stuff]

cant help thinking youre a label collector and not a `sound` collector

 

Dave I'm both - yes, I collect full label runs on some labels - but I'm a 'sound' collector too - and that is exactly why I'm interested in both sides of the disc 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

[Pete S]

Dave I'm both - yes, I collect full label runs on some labels - but I'm a 'sound' collector too - and that is exactly why I'm interested in both sides of the disc 

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

I run a Northern Soul list though not a general soul list.  And I repeat, in almost every instance, I am selling it for one side of the record.  Thats the side people want.  People above like Phil D understand and as he says, he wouldn't care if the b side didn't play.  I can assure you that most of my customers think like this too. I realise that probably puts them a step down on the evolutional scale compared to some of the geniuses and soul connoisseurs on Soul Source.  But we're happy.

Edited March 10, 2013 by Pete S

[Dave Pinch]

anybody that sells understands....anybody that doesnt sell.......................well doesnt