I'm not selling up but a post in Sales got me thinking about the logistics of it. The 8000+ collection would take a year to sell at 22 records a day, every single day. As I said on there, that would almost be a full time job when you take into account answering queries, packaging, posting etc etc

Has anyone experienced selling a large collection? Does it turn you into a record dealer?

Cheers

Paul

The taxman might think it does, and I do know someone it happened too, you may end up paying tax unless you can convince them that you aren't.

  On 17/02/2013 at 11:19, paultp said:

I'm not selling up but a post in Sales got me thinking about the logistics of it. The 8000+ collection would take a year to sell at 22 records a day, every single day. As I said on there, that would almost be a full time job when you take into account answering queries, packaging, posting etc etc

Has anyone experienced selling a large collection? Does it turn you into a record dealer?

Cheers

Paul

Would depend on how long you had the records for, If a long time say deen collecting since youth, Then you could class them as hierlooms and are allowed to sell them,

Without being hit by the taxman.

Garry

  On 17/02/2013 at 13:12, Garry Huxley said:

Would depend on how long you had the records for, If a long time say deen collecting since youth, Then you could class them as hierlooms and are allowed to sell them,

Without being hit by the taxman.

Garry

The tax ruling used to be that you could sell items from a personel collection up to the value of £8,000 per annun before being liable for Capitol Gains Tax. This may or may not have changed ?

  On 17/02/2013 at 14:11, Louise said:

The tax ruling used to be that you could sell items from a personel collection up to the value of £8,000 per annun before being liable for Capitol Gains Tax. This may or may not have changed ?

Thanks for that Louise, interesting to know, as Im contemplating selling some as well.

Garry

  On 17/02/2013 at 14:23, Garry Huxley said:

Thanks for that Louise, interesting to know, as Im contemplating selling some as well.

Garry

The issue is whether or not you are carrying out a trade, something that would probably not apply to 99% of people who are selling records in any quantity who are on this forum.

The Inland Revenue, who are unlikely to have significant resources available to establish a trading position on any great scale,would have to consider what are known as the "badges of trade." For people owning records, for personal use in the first instance, and then selling them on, even at a profit, in order to acquire more records for personal use, the "badges of trade" argument is not likely to be sustained.

There is a concept of "pride of possession" which extends to chatels such as records, books, works of art etc that distinguishes such assets from trading stock.

Difficult to see how this could be taxable even within the CGT regime.

I was just wondering about the logistics of selling so many records TBH.

How would the Inland Revenue (or you) establish the amount of profit you make? I presume, although I could be wrong, that this would be the difference between your purchase and sales price across the 8000 items. Do you know what you paid for each one? Some will make more and some may make less than what you paid. Am I overlooking something here?

i sold part of a collection it took me ages to sell 250 the biggies flew out the quality 45s took longer to shift

Give 'em to someone who does it as a full time job to sell

the threshhold is £9,000 per annum now, i asked my accountant if selling, when the resession hit my business, would mean id have to declare it, as they were my personal items no if i didnt sell over the amount above, then id have to prove the length of time id owned the records etc in case of a query so that it wasnt me buying or selling records for profit even if i wasnt classed as a dealer, so i took that as if i sold £20,000 worth of tunes if i could prove id had them for over 20 years i wouldnt pay tax

hope that makes sense

geeooooordie

Edited February 17, 201312 yr by geordiejohnson

But ... why sh ould you pay tax on something that when it was first sold the Tax was paid on it , this is what I don't understand ?

Swifty :g:

  On 17/02/2013 at 19:18, SWIFTY said:

But ... why sh ould you pay tax on something that when it was first sold the Tax was paid on it , this is what I don't understand ?

Swifty :g:

"A capital gains tax (CGT) is a tax on capital gains, the profit realized on the sale of a non-inventory asset that was purchased at a cost amount that was lower than the amount realized on the sale. The most common capital gains are realized from the sale of stocks, bonds, precious metals and property. Not all countries implement a capital gains tax and most have different rates of taxation for individuals and corporations."

(from Wikipedia)

I bought a huge private collection of around 10,000 Lps from Birmingham around this time last year. I had to hire a large van to move them in a couple of journeys.

I paid quite a large sum of money for them but there are tons of prog rock ( vertigo swirl , Decca , Plum Atlantic etc) loads of reggae Lp's but only a small amount of soul Lp's. Have had to rig up Ikea and home made shelving upstairs to house them and the garage is full to the cieling with them.

I bought them with the intention of selling them on a daily basis on Ebay but have only put a small handful on as Lp's are very time consuming to grade as I listen to each track on each Lp before grading for obvious reasons as You can't visually grade them. They do my head in. I only really enjoy putting 45's on as they are so simple to list.

But never mind I've got a crap pension when I retire so they may come in as a good income in theory if people still want them then.

  On 17/02/2013 at 17:30, paultp said:

I was just wondering about the logistics of selling so many records TBH.

If you want a quick sale - as in the lot, I think the only way is to a dealer. Obviously they will only give you (at a guess) 60% - 70% of market value (they have to make a living) but at least it's all done in one blow. Don't forget, they will most probably have to 'sit' on some of the records for quite some time. I know some people are immediately suspicious of dealers 'having a good deal' but hey, they are human..........aren't they?

All the best,

Len

I think most dealers will only give 30 to 40%.

In my opinion if you do not fancy going down the e-bay route the best way is to sell them at auction (vested interest I know! ). Both collectors and dealers the world over bid against each other ensuring excellent prices are achieved.

We sell collections from a few hundred records to 50,000 records - we hold specific Northern Soul auctions every 6 to 12 months (subject to supply) and regular rare vinyl auctions every 3 months.

An example of our next Northern Soul auction catalogue is below:

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/omega-auctions/catalogue-id-2877115

Admittedly a dealer can pay you there and then (and most will make reasonable offers) but if you don't mind waiting a couple of months it can ensure you get the best price for your collection.

We are relatively new where selling Northern Soul is concerned but have been selling rare vinyl for 4 years and often get better prices than on e-bay as people can view records before bidding and therefore can bid in confidence safe in their own knowledge re gradings etc.

  On 17/02/2013 at 18:01, geordiejohnson said:

the threshhold is £9,000 per annum now, i asked my accountant if selling, when the resession hit my business, would mean id have to declare it, as they were my personal items no if i didnt sell over the amount above, then id have to prove the length of time id owned the records etc in case of a query so that it wasnt me buying or selling records for profit even if i wasnt classed as a dealer, so i took that as if i sold £20,000 worth of tunes if i could prove id had them for over 20 years i wouldnt pay tax

hope that makes sense

geeooooordie

Better change your accountant the CGT exemption rate is £10,600 for this tax year same as last.

My view on this is get Pete S on the job and sell that way. Far easier. Maybe auction big ticket items via JM, gets better prices generally as we all know. Speaking from experience.

JM-gets a better price/takes a bigger slice?

  On 18/02/2013 at 10:32, sir cumference said:

JM-gets a better price/takes a bigger slice?

Yes but you still get a better price, after his costs, as he has worldwide clients and I think the best knowledge. Worked for me!

  On 18/02/2013 at 10:32, sir cumference said:

JM-gets a better price/takes a bigger slice?

Pete S had a large mailing list, good customer base, a decent name amongst buyers and sellers, and his commission is probably lower than a lot of the auction houses too, and he puts the work in to get stuff sold.

  On 18/02/2013 at 10:43, MrC said:

Pete S had a large mailing list, good customer base, a decent name amongst buyers and sellers, and his commission is probably lower than a lot of the auction houses too, and he puts the work in to get stuff sold.

Totally agree.

I'm going to close this thread as it has just turned into advertising for Pete Smith and JM

I was really after personal experiences of trying to sell a big collection personally, without using dealers. Its taken on a life of its own; tax issues, dealers etc etc

Just personal comments on how we found it easiest to sell our records, and who we used.

Was not one of the first replies about the taxman?

  On 18/02/2013 at 09:58, Steve Foran said:

Better change your accountant the CGT exemption rate is £10,600 for this tax year same as last.

My view on this is get Pete S on the job and sell that way. Far easier. Maybe auction big ticket items via JM, gets better prices generally as we all know. Speaking from experience.

Hi steve it was 2005 when i enquired and doing most of my selling never bothered to update after that

geeooordie

Edited February 18, 201312 yr by geordiejohnson

  On 18/02/2013 at 18:46, geordiejohnson said:

Hi steve it was 2005 when i enquired and doing most of my selling never bothered to update after that

geeooordie

Fair enough. The job does not let me get it wrong. Had to work out various CGT liabilities for non, basic and higher rate tax payers in an exam last year. Twisted my blood I can tell you.